The Syndicate

Just out of curiosity, did anyone figure out my role confession from the Night 9 email?

Spacedaisy wrote:Because I had burned through so many replacements already and I figured eventually missing votes would catch up with her. It just did not do so quickly enough. If she had not returned the game would stillbe going right now.

LT's return to vote just sped up the inevitable, I think. Here was my end game plan before she came back to vote:

AP would be lynched leaving it INdi & me against, SNow Dog, Juliets, & Dom. We NK Juliets & try to lynch Dom. Even if the lynch .headed toward Indi or I, we could always cast a deciding vote for LT would would've had 4 votes going into the day. That night we NK either Dom or Snow Dog (probably Dom since we didn't know if Strongmad had been killed yet & figures SD was The Cheat). That would've been the end of the end of the game. IF for some reason it came down to me vs. Dom & Snow Dog, I still had my own email to use which would've removed me from the poll and forced a vote against one of them. I was kinda looking forward to playing that card...oh well.

SVS deserves A LOT of credit for that life-saving tap dance of hers. That took skill & finesse. Kudos, madame.

I'm off to work so I won't be around for the rest of today, and as such, I'll have to vote now. Given A Person hasn't even responded to the accusations, I feel very confident he is one of our final remaining baddies so I'm voting him today.

Some if CBK's recent posts did seem kinda wish-washy, IMO, but that didn't make me want to vote for her automatically. Is it really relevant at this point though, Dom? We should really be focusing in on the vote since there can't be more than one or two bad guys left.

I think I wanna go back to the first lynch when SVS started playing. I vaguely remember it was a close vote between her & someone else. If the lasers believed her to be Trogdor, some may have wanted to keep her around a bit to help thin the civilian population. So looking at people who didn't vote to lynch her before might turn up something.

Snow Dog has had pretty good instincts throughout this entire game. on Day 11 he stated that DFaraday was NOT a baddie, but even now SVS is trying to push her theory that he could've been Trogdor to distance herself from the role. So CBK, it basically comes down to who you trust: Snow Dog or SVS...

Leamiteo's last post stated her belief that SVS was bad...specifically that she was borrokuei's partner. As SVS said, though, Trogdor doesn't specifically target the victims, but if people weren't sending in hut choices then those individuals would automatically be in whichever hut Trogdor would choose. I think Trogdor was in waiting for people to let their guard down and then took advantage.

As for A Person, he voted for himself Days 1-4, did not vote at all on days 5-10 and voted for himself again on Day 11.


@SVS...Would your "BigFatAbsent" comment fall under the "No u?" comeback that others have brought up earlier in the game...cuz it sure feels like it. You have nothing else to use against me as a means to refute my case against you so you call me out for one minor flaw in my posting habbits. Also, weren't you just saying how baddies try to go after low posters as easy targets and now here you are employing a similar tactic against me...Early in Day 11 I said (again, as many other post on previous days can corroborate) that I suspected borrokuei was bad and that I fully intended to cast a vote for him when Daisy made the poll available...and I did just that.

FUCK!
I hate to say I told ya so but...

BigDamnHero wrote:(snip)
One thought I've had about Trogdor is that he may be laying low to avoid suspicion in hopes that people will think he has been eliminated when he's actually just laying in wait until the opportunity to start picking off the last few ramining players. Now I'm in no way asserting that I believe movingpictures is Trogdor at this point, but it is a scenario I've thought about and can see someone of MP's caliber employing such a devious strategy.(snip)

I'm ENTIRELY convinced SVS is Trogdor. Look at her voting behavior the last few rounds: she voted to lynch Bullzeye and then couldn't see how borrukei could possibly be bad or have any partners. It's almost as if she knows the right choice and actively did the opposite...the reason being it doesn't matter to her who gets lynched or not because she needs everyone dead anyway! Then remember THIS post:

S~V~S wrote:I mentioned Mata since she was a Timmer voter.

And even if I were to be Trogdor, as many have said (and which I am not), I would still want to baddie hunt. Had Timmer managed to lynch DP, he would be alive and basking in all the civ cred right now. You don't have to be a civvie to know a baddie when you see one

Trogdor has not killed since Day Two or Three. The Blue Lasers have, so even if I were Trogdor (which I am sure someone is going to bring up), I would be less of a threat than the Lasers. And that was "if". If I am not Trogdor, then I am a civ. In any case, if we manage to kill off the Blue Lasers, I am sure I will be first to go if the game does not end. And that is likely when the Trogdor kills will start again, :lol:

But again, at this stage, whether I am a civ or not has nothing to do with the affiliation of the people I suspect.

Yeah...I'm gonna bring this up! She plants this thought early enough so that she can refer back to it and say "See, I told ya someone would use this against me" while also building up some plausible deniability. But at the same time she's trying to convince us that the remaining baddie team is more of a threat to keep Trogdor discussions to a minimum.

SVS used every possible reason and rationale she could when she came into the game knowing she had an uphill battle to fight to distance herself from the Trogdor suspicions. To her credit, she lasted quite a while and was able to dance her way out of the public eye, but she her dance card needs to be punched right now and I'm gonna be the first one to punch it! She's getting my vote this round and any civvie-minded players remaining should do the same if we have any hope of winning this battle.

borokkuei wrote: I just wanted to vote because I was going to be busy for a while and knew I would otherwise miss the poll, and I didn't want to make spacedaisy mad. I would have voted myself, but I think she mentioned not liking that either. Other than that, I had my own suspicions based on absolutely nothing (like my reasons for thinking about snow dog and A Person). Bullz seemed as good as dead anyway since most people voted for him, but looking at the roles and the fact that he's alive, it seems fairly obvious that he's a civ too. Considering that other players who have been spotted as civ voted for bullz (SVS, others I don't remember), I don't think there is much to go on there in regard to me being bad.

This is my logic.

I'm sorry but there's nothing in all of that explanation that makes any sense. Bullzeye wasn't "as good as dead" as you claim because you were the first to vote for him. And being the first person to vote, why on earth would you vote for yourself, regardless of real life commitments?!?!?! I've voiced my suspecikns of borrukei before, but this pushes things over the edge. If I could vote now, I'd cast my vote for him immediately, but ill have to wait for Dausy to adjust things to fit her schedule (which is fine by me). Should anything else come to light, I may change but otherwise I'm voting to lynch borrokuei thus round.

Hopefully the Bullzeye voters now see the error of their ways....

I have no clue what to make about Bullzeye. I said it earlier that the whole thing about him dying and being brought back gave I thinnk gave him enough space to cruise by for a while, but that has nothing to do about anything specific HE did. It brought up a lot of questions about Desmond who claimed responsibility, but that's it. I'm just not confident enough that Bullzeye is bad to cast a vote for him. I trusted Snow Dog last time and it helped us eliminate one of the bad guy teams so I'm gonna trust him again this round and cast my vote along with his for indiglo.

S~V~S wrote:Bullz, do you have an opinion on CBK?

Also, imo Dom is ALWAYS overdramatic (love ya Dom), it is just part of what/who he is. So saying Dom is overdramatic does not say much.

And you know, we all get caught sometimes through bad luck or a poor roll of the dice. Had Timmer been in time to vote, he would have lived, and would be basking in the glow of a DP lynch

Linki~ I have seen nothing bad about Borok. Can you explain why you think he is a better alternative?

What do you make of their quarrels throughout the game? One suspects the other, then they vote for each other...but now they both have come together to cast the first two votes against Bullzeye. I haven't particularly trusted either of them and now I'm just wondering if they may not have both been Lasers together all this time...

Not trying to defend Bullzeye in any way, but Strongsad's poems haven't been very accurate. One of them called to lynch MP...I think it might've even gone so far as to say he was Trogdor, but either way it was CLEARLY wrong.

juliets wrote:So yay, no death!! I looked through the roles again and the only thing I see that could have happened is that Fightgar blocked the killer, or the whole team missed sending in their pm. Is there any other option that I might have missed?

It's possible the Lasers could've targeted The Cheat, too (if strongmad is still alive, which I personally believe he is).

Srry,,.,votimg on the road…going wih smwdig cuz Itryst him mpst in the gamr so i'll vote disgrnutled porcupine

Spacedaisy wrote:I have to be at work at two tomorrow. This means either I end the day early or I end the day late. What are your preferences?

I'm ok with either...but timmer makes a good point, maybe making it later would help encourage players to get their vote in this round...

ok...I'm really not liking these run-in votes. this time it was borokkuei jumping in against Dom. He hasn't even been participating but seems confident enough to vote so quick and so early? What's possibly even worse is that not only does he refer back to a suspicion he first brought up two days ago, it was a suspicion he originally thought was about MP and had to be corrected...here (some kind of error happened and it wouldn't let me quote the post so this is the link):

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p35180
He didn't even vote Dom on that day (Day 6) because the winds were currently blowing in SVS' direction at the time. Something just doesn't sit right with me there...

Quite frankly all these absent/inattentive players are somewhat frustrating me...I'm not sure who it was who said it, but if they are civillians, they aren't really doing the rest of us any favors by staying so silent. We don't have to be as chatty as movingpictures was (that was a sort of distraction in its own right) but not saying anything or these run-and-gun votes isn't helping either. I think I've got to toss my vote to borokkuei this round.

Given who we now know who movingpictures was, it might be a wise thing to go back through his posts and see where his suspicions were directed towards the end.

Snow Dog wrote:

juliets wrote:RIPIYWG BWT, I had no idea if you were civvie, baddie, whatever. It was nice to play with you again though. See you next game.

So no Trog kill again - maybe he is dead but I just don't see how.

In that case why worry? He is not killing so lets get the Blue lazers. Any thought on who?

I concur!

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if we would be told or notified if either of the bad guy teams were completely eliminated?

I just want to say up front that I'm sure there's going to be a lot of suspicion cast my way since for the longest time I was Movingpicture's biggest detractor. I even went so far as to vote for him 4 days in a row, but over the past few rounds (you can read back through my posts to verify this), I began softening on the idea of him being a bad guy. In retrospect, most of what he said & did do make sense now given his role. I was looking at one side of the coin when I should've been looking at the other. What I think would be most telling is who ping-ponged off my accusations and/or votes against MP seeing it as an opportunity to take him out:

(in voting order)
Day1 voters: BDH, Kate
Day 2 voters: BDH, Lizzy, Matahari
Day 3 voters: BDH, Llama, Vompatti
Day 4 voters: Dom, CBK, Timmer, BDH
Day 5 voters: timmer, borokkuei (this was when Llama made his case against gleam)
Day 6 voters: Snow Dog, Movingpictures
Day 7 voters: polls not listed...but practically everybody per MP's request

Dom wrote:Sorry, Alex. I really did think you were baddie.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I'm really sorry I missed the vote! I went down to visit with my brother last night, and we went out partying with some of his friends. So I never had a chance to check in to vote last night or this morning. I probably would have gone for either DP, DF, or SVS since those are my top Trogdor suspicions.

Oh my gosh. MP got lynched again, and was a civvie like I totally expected him to be. I'm. Very. Shocked.

I want to look back some at the people who have continued to push very hard for an MP lynch. Dom in particular has pinged me a few times, but I can't remember exactly what he said. I will go re-read him and possibly Timmer at some point today and pull a few quotes.

Interesting considering that MP has been questioning you for a while now...


Also interesting given that this was the first time I've voted MP.... however, Timmer has been going on about MP too, yet no mention of him. Why so selective?

What's REALLY interesting is that it ISN'T the first time you voted for MP...you also voted for him on Day 4...

Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to get to the player write-ups before this day ends...it's late & I'm exhausted. sorry everyone. That being said, there's a few things I want to respond to before I wrap-up my part of today.

S~V~S wrote:I am just starting in my read back v2.0, and started with the posts posted since I last posted, and i have to say, MP, that while I am not Trogdor, I don't know that I think DP is, either. At least not for the reasons he is taking suspish. There are a lot of potential reasons why Trogdor missed so many kills. Including that he was NKed.

Also, since he has also been very AWOL, why me or DP, but not Faraday?

I am going to catch up and do a bit of vote analysis; I want to see who voted early in the Elo lynch that is also potentially one of Vomps teammates. I do think, as no one attempted to save her, that Elos team all voted early. SO I want to reread the Vomps lynch extra carefully, and compare potential Vomp associates to the voting order in the Elo lynch.

This post from SVS seems like a desperate attempt to explain away how she can't be trogdor, but, as Juliet pointed out, I had previously done a break-down explaining how Trogdor couldn't really be dead yet. SVS may not have reached that yet in her catch-up reading (it is a daunting task which I'm sorry anyone joining us has to undertake), but using it as a reason without realizing WHY it's not a plausibility just smacks of a baddie searching for excuses.

As to why DP and Faraday can't be Trogdor, while they may not be active posters in the game, they each do tend to show up at least once each round to post SOMETHING...so it's not a complete absence on their part.

borokkuei wrote:I'mma gonna go ahead and vote Dom because of that thing that pinged me awhile back, and that's the only lead I have on anyone really.

I don't like this for the same reason I didn't like Dom rushing in to vote for Vompatti....it's not so much who they voted for but HOW they voted. First Dom and now borokkuei essential pop-in without really saying much or participating in the discussion, say who their vote is going for and then disappear again.

MP...your post responding to my current case against you is probably the most sincere thing I've read from you most of this game. You're still not in the clear with me, but I may be softening towards you....if this turns out to bite me in the ass later I WILL find where you live and hunt you down (not really....but I'll certainly be pissed if I end up falling for your baddie ploy)...

Anyway, I have to vote before going to bed since I won't be up in time for the poll, so I'm casting my vote for SVS. I'm sorry if it seems unfair, but I see her posts as trying to throw any reason out there to distance herself from being Trogdor. It's really the only tactic she would have at her disposal...

As surprising as it may be to hear, I wish I could agree with Timmer, but I don't think I can. Back around day 4 or so, I made the claim that I thought that movingpictures was the cheerleader, but given the recent events with Gleam, I don't necessarily know that the claim holds up as strong as it once did. I think most of us are operating under the assumption that Gleam was the cheerleader, and while I think it was a wise move, the fact is we have no verification of who Gleam was so there will always be the possibility that he either wasn't the cheerleader or quite possibly wasn't a bad guy at all. It would be a tragic mistake for any of us to continue on without keeping that little caveat tucked away in the back of our mind or else we may clome to regret making that assumption later.

That being said, while I'm not ready to give movingpictures the key to civ city by any stretch of the imagination, my suspicions of him have lessened just a smidge. Judging by his passionate and eye-blurring posts, I see him as a sauve, experienced player. One thought I've had about Trogdor is that he may be laying low to avoid suspicion in hopes that people will think he has been eliminated when he's actually just laying in wait until the opportunity to start picking off the last few ramining players. Now I'm in no way asserting that I believe movingpictures is Trogdor at this point, but it is a scenario I've thought about and can see someone of MP's caliber employing such a devious strategy.

Someone, and I can't remember who now, said of my write-up of Vompatti that what they noticed about him was that he threw a few names around but never really stuck with any one person. The exact same could be said for MP. I dare say he's thrown out every single person's name who's been playin the game, both active and inactive. Now the 2 schools of thought for this could be either A) A civilian minded strategy to encourage discussion that can be traced back to eventually ensnare a bad guy with their own words when they inevitably have to contradict themselves, or B) A bad guy's ploy to keep discussions as wide-reaching as possible so as to keep the chances of discussion focusing on you or your team to a minimum. My suspicions with MP have mostly been centered around the second scenario due largely in part to the info discussions of the first couple days. What stick in my craw and will likely never find relief is that being an experienced player, he made certain assumptions that were not likely and eventually ended up being thrown out as false by our gracious host herself. In my mind, a veteran player wouldn't have automatically jumped to those conclussions unless he had a specific agenda in mind to do so.

I've been waiting and wanting to see ANY kind of telling quality in regards to his gameplay, but I can't say that I have. At best, movingpictures strikes me as very middle-of-the-road. Even yesterday's lynching of Vompatti, he goes off and votes for himself for some reason...frustration mainly, I think. And really, it's those ranting, frustrated moments that are the ONLY indicators to me that he may just be a civilian...but like I've said before, he's a very cagey player and, though it seems sincere, could very well just be a ruse.

I'm going to be away for most of today, but tonight I would like to do as movingpictures has requested and do a write-up on birdswith teeth. The one thing that I'd like to point out about him before I go is the Day 0 voting records:

There were 4 people who voted to go to The Stick(in this order)...Vompatti (bad guy), DisgruntledPorcupine (?), birdswith teeth (?) and Lizzy (civilian)

Mongoose wrote:

BigDamnHero wrote:Does anybody know, has Snow Dog ever explained why he's publicly announcing which hut he's hiding in....or at least which hut he CLAIMS to be hiding in?

I thought it might be baddie-baiting? But that's the thing, just as you have alluded to, any of us can claim we are in one hut and really be in another, so I think everyone is going to take those sorts of declarations with a grain of salt.

I've been leaning mostly toward believing Snow Dog is amongst the civilians, but him calling out his hut choices has me a little on edge, mainly because I could see it as a devious strategy from a bad guy. The 2 scenarios I'm envisioning are as follows:

1) Many of us think Snow Dog is a civ. His act of bravery by publicly announcing a hut is a trap where those of us think he can be trusted silently choose the same hut as him and are basically walking into the spider's web.

2) Claiming a hut publicly may cause many rational thinkers to NOT want to choose the same hut thereby eliminating one of the huts Trogdor would want to choose from. So now rather than worry about who is in any of the 5 huts, Trogdor only has to choose from 4 since it's unlikely anyone would choose the publicly announced hut.

Thoughts?

Does anybody know, has Snow Dog ever explained why he's publicly announcing which hut he's hiding in....or at least which hut he CLAIMS to be hiding in?

So here's my quandry: the going theory is that Trogdor has been either absent or not paying attention (possibly that he's been very VERY unlucky with his targets). It has also been theorized that SVS is the top candidate to fall under these former parameters. How exactly does she defend against this? Whether she's trogdor or not, she has to deny everything, but she can't really argue against the circumstances around the events as they've played out (i.e. she hasn't been around and there've been no trogdor kills). And if she's any other character who has some sort of night power that we haven't seen yet, it'd still basically be like outing herself if something happens tonight that we haven't seen.

Mongoose wrote:Wow, way to go guys! I am really impressed.

Seriously, how were you able to read Vompers as bad rather than as him just being usual Vomp? I have such trouble with that.

Let's cut MP some slack and move on to other possibilities.

I think I have the benefit of not knowing anyone in the game so my perception of things remains clear and unfiltered.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

BigDamnHero wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I think BDH makes some VERY good points on Vomps. The way he's jumped among so many different suspicions, and then going from saying he thinks Borok is civ to not trusting him at all, along with his vote for gleam, seems like icing on the cake. If I still had my vote, it would probably go for Vomps today.

We need a bad guy to get lynched today. Specifically, I'm looking at borokkuei, vomps and SVS. While I feel the former 2 are very suspicious and may very well be bad guys, I really REALLY want to lynch Trogdor this round and I believe SVS fits the bill. I want the civilians to get a win this round, but I also want us to sleep a little better knowing a killer has been eliminated.

So had you not voted already, would you change your vote because you feel vompatti is more likely now to be trogdor than SVS or would you change it just because you feel vompatti is just more likely bad in general?

More the second one. I think SVS is more likely Trogdor and Vomps is more likely baddie. Plus I think lynching Vomps would give us more info if he pops up bad. Although I would be happy to see either one go.

See I tend to think you're right here, and while I understand what indiglo just said about SVS not being able to defend herself, deep down I think we would all rather have Trogdor eliminated than just some random bad guy. Trogdor kills (at least he's supposed to) so if we can prevent one more person from dying tonight I think it would be worth it. I think I have to cast my vote for SVS.

Hmmmm....Dom's quick vote has me a bit concerned...especially because of this earlier post of his:

Dom wrote:I think SVS is a good Trogdor candidate. I agree with Strongsad on vomps as well.

Dom, why did you vote vompatti instead of SVS?

I'm going to call it a night and hope I hear a response from Dom before I have to vote in the morning...

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I think BDH makes some VERY good points on Vomps. The way he's jumped among so many different suspicions, and then going from saying he thinks Borok is civ to not trusting him at all, along with his vote for gleam, seems like icing on the cake. If I still had my vote, it would probably go for Vomps today.

We need a bad guy to get lynched today. Specifically, I'm looking at borokkuei, vomps and SVS. While I feel the former 2 are very suspicious and may very well be bad guys, I really REALLY want to lynch Trogdor this round and I believe SVS fits the bill. I want the civilians to get a win this round, but I also want us to sleep a little better knowing a killer has been eliminated.

So had you not voted already, would you change your vote because you feel vompatti is more likely now to be trogdor than SVS or would you change it just because you feel vompatti is just more likely bad in general?

OK...so here's that post where the secret event DECEMBERWEEN has been crossed out...

Spacedaisy wrote:

S~V~S wrote:So Gunhaver picks the targets for these other two guys? Does he also get the results, or only them? This is an awesome grouping, if Gunhaver plays it well.

Gunhaver picks the targets but he does ot get the results, nor does he know who the other two are.

Is the Show played in the thread, and have the secret events listed actually happened:

The Show is played in the thread, it's contestants are not allowed to openly discuss it, though I doubt it will be difficult to figure out. And I have crossed out the only Secret Event to be triggered thus far. The person who triggered it is welcome to discuss it in thread if they so desire.

Secret Events!
Cool Guy
Sibbie
Concert
Decemberween

Or is this a list of potential secret events?

I chose not to answer regarding What's Her Face for two reasons. First, Elo is dead so it really has little impact at this point. Second, I would not tell you even if she were alive because it would have been highly unfair to her to basically out her.

So now that I know I'm not entirely crazy, is it possible or likely that this event is still occuring and if so does/can anyone want to specualte on what/how this has been effecting the game? I brought up matahari and Gleam changing their avatars as I see this possibly being akin to "costumes" ala the "ween" part of Decemberween...

agleaminranks wrote:First off, I need to thank you for making this handy summarization because given how difficult it is for me to browse the forum right now, this put a lot of stuff into perspective. I think I had overestimated the number of unknown deaths and hadn't been keeping proper track.

I'm still of the conviction that Devin wasn't being entirely truthful and I still suspect that he may have been bad, but from a strictly numerical standpoint I can see now that it's unlikely he was the serial killer. I think you're probably right then, and that Trogdor is still lurking amongst the living...

I wouldn't necessarily jump right to Devin being a bad guy or not being truthful, but his rez claims do seem to be circumspect, definitely.

One other thing I noticed (it may be game related...it may not): I believe Gleam and matahari have changed their player icons during the course of this game. Gleam I'm certain just did (he went from a lizzard to a dinosaur) and I'm 90% certain matahari did because I began noticing gILDA radner popping up. I also noted a post I believe from daisy somewhere that had the various events listed but DECEMBERWEEN was crossed out. I may be over-analyzing things at this point, but can anyone else confirm this if for no other reason than to affirm that I'm NOT going crazy...

MovingPictures07 wrote:On another note, what do players think of Bullzeye?

personally, I'm not sure what to make of Bullzeye. After his death, he seemed to be given instantaneous civilian cred and then he was brought back somehow (supposedly by Devin, if those claims were believed to be true) and has coasted by really ever since. I can't say what his affiliation is one way or another. I think a lot of assumptions have been made about him and taken as fact for so long that no one has really bothered to question it until now.

Devin claimed to rez him which made me consider devin to be the king of town...but then there was the tragic Lizzy lynch which revealed SHE was the king. Now everything I thought about Devin has to be thrown out the window, and leaves me with the following questions:
Was Devin REALLY the one to rez Bullzeye? If so, then how (since he wasn't the king)?
If not, then why would he try to claim that he did & why hasn't anyone else come forward to dispute it?

I think I may want to go do a readthrough of Bullzeye and see if anything else particularly stands out about him.

agleaminranks wrote:Regarding the Trogdor framing theory, I'd considered that possibility too, only because I was trying to put myself in the possible serial killer's mindframe for this game to try and understand their strategy, and I thought it a particularly devious strategy. However, I still think it is far less to the serial killer's advantage to take this course of action, given his impressive ability to nightkill every freaking night, he would be able to eliminate the opposition far more quickly through this course of action than simply having everyone else give chase to a few no-shows for a few nights.

Thus, I think the events that have panned out wouId only make sense if Trogdor were either dead already or a player who has been notoriously absent as of late. I'm still leaning a bit towards the former, but of the candidates for the latter category, DP and SVS are the prime suspects, from what I can gather. I'm going to try and go back a few days if I can spot someone else who hasn't been participating either.

In regards to what I think I saw mentioned earlier, it seems unlikely to me that some of the other players mentioned as possible candidates (I saw Alex mention vomps, which seems highly unlikely to me due to his participation level) are our serial killer in question. I don't really suspect it to be anyone here, in other words.

I think its VERY unlikely Trogdor has died yet. Let's look at the unknown deaths, shall we...:

Kate Night 1
Bullzeye killed Night 1 by Trogdor, rezzed, Night 2
borukkuei killed by Torgdor on night 2 and rezzed due to host error
Devin killed Night 3 by Blue Laser

Kate is unlikely to be Trogdor since there was some kind of trogdor activity after she died. Devin claims to have rezzed Bullzeye (which makes me wonder how true this actually is given the results of Lizzy's lynch) and if this were the case, why would he rez someone the he presumably killed if the dead trogdor theory turned out to be true. So of all the deceased players, Trogdor could really only be Devin and I don't see that as likely.

@movingpictures RE: vompatti...(im away from computer & on phone right now)
The only thing I can say about vompatti's behavior is that it's been consistent throughout the game, but that's not saying much at all. A player who doesn't engage in discussion or say much of anything is hard to get a read on. He could be laying low to avoid suspicion or so as not to draw much attention to himself for whatever reason. The only reason for the latter I could see us if he was a powerful/important civilian role, but since our most powerful civilian is already dead, I don't see this as being a likely reason to remain quiet.

MovingPictures07 wrote:On the topic of Vomps... Hey Vomps. What are your thoughts? I don't think I've heard a suspicion from you in a long while.

See this is interesting to me because I don't really remember hearing many suspicions AT ALL from Vompatti. So i did a quick glance through his posts and here's what I found (sorry, but there's going to be LOTS of quotes and my stream of thought may jump around a bit but I'll try to make my points as clear and concise as possible):

While he's posted a lot (163 posts to date I believe), a good 90% of them are only a couple words or maybe a full sentence (The longest post he had was to tell a ghost story on a day when he believed that was the secret event). Almost NO in-depth discussion or analysis at all. Here are the posts of his where he talks about suspicions of other players:
Day 2

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Tired of waiting. I'm voting for Devin too.

The same.

Day 3

Vompatti wrote:Never mind, just saw the last page.

Devin is the most likely baddie if you ask me, but I'm not voting yet in case I need to vote for MP to save myself.

Vompatti wrote:I'm *voting MP* because I don't want to vote llama and I'm not convinced by the case on Hedgeowl at all.

Vompatti wrote:Oh well, I'm still leaning on Hedge being civ.

(which we later find out is true, hedge WAS a civ).

Vompatti wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Ture. I have a feeeling this will end badly.

Spread out votes are never good and I agree, it is possible these leading candidates are civvies (I know for a fact one is and strongly feel another one is). However, your statement pings me just slightly.

Who do you think is most worthy to die today, then?

Possibly A Person. I didn't think he'd get any more votes so I voted for you. I still Devin is the most likely baddie but he hasn't got any votes so far.

Vompatti wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Ture. I have a feeeling this will end badly.

Spread out votes are never good and I agree, it is possible these leading candidates are civvies (I know for a fact one is and strongly feel another one is). However, your statement pings me just slightly.

Who do you think is most worthy to die today, then?

Possibly A Person. I didn't think he'd get any more votes so I voted for you. I still Devin is the most likely baddie but he hasn't got any votes so far.

I will eat a hat if Devin is a baddie. Seriously.

And why AP?

Because he clearly wants to die, and I don't think llama or Hedge are bad, and I'm not sure about you either.

Day 4

Vompatti wrote:ture

also, please don't vote Lizzy . . . or else.

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Matt F wrote: Not only did she not vote for him, but now she says...

Lizzy wrote:I would prefer to get rid of the killers who can nominally decide who dies first.

^^ After being asked if she would vote for DP anytime soon.

So, despite her believing DP is Trogdor, she has ZERO interest in voting for him any time in the future.

The rest of ya all, can obviously make up your own minds, but this doesn't sit right with me.

You're on fire today, Matt! Another great observation about Lizzy. Why would anyone, from either team, not want to kill Trogdor when they had the chance?

Could this mean that . . . Lizzy is Trogdor?

Vompatti wrote:I have to say the above post by Lizzy strtonognly seems like a civivive post to me. It even has quotes adnd several paraggppharrghs and stuff.

(though from the context reading I guess there's some connection between Vompatti and Lizzy outside the game so I'm not sure this was necessarily game-related but since it was all in an on-topic color I decided to include them)

Vompatti wrote:To be honest I think Borokkuei would be playing this way even if he was civ.

Vompatti wrote:I randomized between the baddies and got Devin, but since he's not on the poll I'm voting for myself for reasons I'm not allowed to discuss.

First off, how could he know who the baddies are unless he is one of them, and then why did he think Devin was bad when most felt he was civ at this point? Shortly thereafter he posts this:

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I randomized between the baddies and got Devin, but since he's not on the poll I'm voting for myself for reasons I'm not allowed to discuss.

Who else is on your list of baddies, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm not sure anymore. I think my list might have been wrong.

So where was this list? Because from what I've read up to this point he's barely said much about anyone which would comprise a list of anything.

Vompatti wrote:I have a feeling that MP is attempting to pass as a civ by flooding the thread with seemingly civ-like walls of text that I'm not going to bother reading.

Vompatti wrote:

Mongoose wrote:Okay, let's focus on someone else and give Alex a break. What do we think about Borok, for example.

I think he's been jumping to conclusions quite lightly and paying even less attention to the game than I have. Plus I think he wants me dead.

Day 5:

Vompatti wrote:Whoa, I didn't realize it was Monday already. Voted for Gleam.

I find this out of place is because he didn't even participate in ANY discussion that day except to make this comment:

Vompatti wrote:

timmer wrote:Also, Vompatti doesn't seem to be contributing much beyond the word ture, which I'm sad to have to ask is a deliberate misspelling of true?

ture

I haven't been in the mood lately. I think I might be bipolar or something.

So to sum up, Vompatti had suspicions about Devin, A Person, Movingpictures, and then the out of nowhere vote for Gleam (which was the trending vote that particular day). A few of you have made comments about people laying low and "blending in." Well I think the biggest blender in this game may just be Vompatti....and I don't mean that in a good "Hey' let's make some margaritas and have a fiesta" kind of way.

Timmer had it right in that last post I quoted saying Vompatti didn't seem to be contributing much, and then vompatti explains it away by stating he "hasn't been in the mood." Is it possible that Vompatti could be Trogdor? I mean there was even an earlier quote saying he was paying even less attention than borrukuei.

Mongoose wrote:And just to recapitulate: I think Coach Z likely died on Day 1 because no one was ever jailed, ever.

I've been working under the assumption that Coach Z has been using his protect skill more than his arrest skill.

@MovingPictures: If you don't want to hear my answers then maybe you shouldn't ask the question...these over reactions don't help your cause any, and I'm saying this more as one player to another than a player who suspects another player.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Interesting points, BDH. I could see a scenario in which your analysis is correct, so I will consider. I did get a civvie vibe from a few of his responses, but he could be faking, I suppose...

What do you think of me?

(And why am I still here when I should be sleeping?)

You are still my reigning #1 bad guy suspect champion. I think you've played a masterful game of pulling the wool over many people's eyes. While I whole-heartedly respect the real life pressures you seem to be facing, the "day off free-pass" you were given yesterday seemed to come at a time when the scrutiny of your affiliation was coming to a head and has since cooled off drastically.

Now you may be wondering why I don't continue my full-ccourt press against you...well that reason is because while I feel entirely confident that you are a bad guy, I feel as though we are on the verge of eliminating trogdor from the game and he is more of an immediate threat, not just to myself and the civilians but to everyone else in general!

MovingPictures07 wrote:BDH, I also want to know what you're currently thinking. You've had some interesting observations to make, but you haven't really voiced any suspicions lately... any ideas?

I've been trying to go through borokkuei's posts today because something has made me feel uneasy about him since this post:

borokkuei wrote:tfw someone finally died and the game can progress.

w00t

RIP if you were a civ, llama. I didn't have a read on you at all, but hopefully you were bad, considering you're dead now.

not sure what TFW means, but he's happy someone died...really?!?!?! While there were many questions about Llama's affiliation (i think most of us were leaning more toward Llama being one of the civilians), in the end, he was killed by the blue laser team which is a victory for the badguys and hardly something to celebrate.

Then there's this post:

borokkuei wrote:Oh, I didn't know that about the "survived a lynch thing"-- that he has previously almost been lynch, survived it, and the ratio of civ to bad roles that had that power.

I think everyone is underestimating the degree at which I am totally not paying attention to anything. If that makes me look like a baddie, then I guess I agree, but by now there's nothing I can do about that.

linki: again, I dunno why I survived that trogdor thing. All I know is that it was a "host error". For all I know, someone messaged daisy with a message like "lol I'm trogdor kill brorokrkuieiiiiiii"

First, how could he not know about Llama surviving the lynch unless he truly is not paying attention. Which brings me to this theory...

What if Borokuei is trogdor? He could've sent his hut selection in and the "host error" was that Daisy randomized his name in the list of everyone else in that hut. realizing she let trogdor essentially commit suicide she had to rectify the situation and brought borokkuei back. Then, as he admits, he hasn't been focusing on the game and forgot to send it his other night PMs.

All in all, borokkuei has jumped straight up to #2 on my suspect list.

@Bullzeye, A Person & indiglo: thanks for the input. I didn't see any mention of it in the rules hence why I thought it may've been a plausible option.

oh...ok....well that tosses out THAT theory then I guess. And while it may be douchey, it'd still be HIGHLY effective, and sometimes the ends DO justify the means.

Looking back at SVS' posts, she hasn't been in the game since Night 3...again, I feel like this is sort of bad form to attack a player in the middle of RL issues, but how can we really ignore the striking coincidences here...

I just want to reitterate a point I made earlier...

BigDamnHero wrote: I also wanted to throw in the notion of SVS potentially being trogdor. I'm not sure about the EXACT timetable, but she was a replacement for Reways, correct? Maybe it was possible that SVS, in trying to assimilate into the game, wasn't sure of her role and therefor could've missed picking a hut to burn during her first night...again, the timetable of her entrance into the game may nulify this theory but I thought it may be noteworthy to toss out there.

Given that Trogdor did not kill again last night and apparently SVS has some sort of internet issues (I feel back for making this case when she can't necessarily respond but the game is the game, right?), I'm feeling more confident that she is the dragon.

One other possibility would be that Fightgar decided to block whoever Trogdor is and has been blocking that person ever since.

agleaminranks wrote:Llama, frankly, I find your insistence on forming a bandwagon for me so quickly simply because of a merely speculative perjunction (on day 1 no less, when all I was trying to do was stir a little discussion for once when no one had much of anything to go on) and simply a "gut feeling" is rather insulting. I've never voted in retaliation but this would have been the one case where I would have considered it, though you've proven that you're an unlynchable role, and in my opinion, probably a bad one at that, considering how damnably dodgy you've been playing this game and is evidenced by your vote today, so eager to shift the limelight from yourself to any other player you can attach a bullshit theory to. So voting for you today would accomplish nothing.

I've been mulling over Trogdor and I'm thinking there is a 50/50 chance he's dead. I think it would really be the only reason he hasn't killed in several nights, barring he is being played by a mostly absent player, of whom I think DP is the prime suspect. Considering he more or less accepted a lynch vote today, I will oblige him.

This part stood out to me the most as I was reading through today to catch-up (soooo much easier since things have been somewhat quiet this round). First, Llama survived ONE lynch, so I don't see how that makes him "unlynchable." Secondly, there are a lot more civilian roles that could explain Llama's survival as opposed to the one bad guy role that could explain it.

I think Llama might just be right about you and I'm willing to trust him for now so I'll be casting a vote for you today.

thellama73 wrote:It's gleamers, I'm telling you. Vote gleamers.

thellama73 wrote:I'll tell you what, I usually don't do this, but I am so sure that Gleam is bad that I am going to vote for him SUPER EARLY. Everybody follow me and bandwagon onto Gleam, and great rewards will follow.

Hmmmm....those are a couple interesting posts you made, llama. I'm thinking over scenarios on how you calling for a bandwagon on Gleam would play out:

Option 1: You are a civilian who may have found out somehow or just has a solid reason to believe that Gleam is a bad guy and wants to rally everyone to eliminate the evil threat.

Option 2: Something has happened and you are under some sort of posting restriction (your posts this round have had an unusually odd quality about them...though, I don't believe I saw a post from Daisy about any sort of secret event being triggered again).

Option 3: You through though posts out there to see who would react to it and, more specifically, HOW people would react to a public call for a bandwagoning. The problem with this scenario is that it's a risky move to take...in the event that Gleam is NOT a bad guy, you run the risk of lynching 2 possible civilians (Gleam today and most likely Llama the next day for leading the attack against a civilian).

Option 4: You are a bad guy who has discovered the identity of someone on the opposite bad guy team and want to ear yourself some brownie points for exposing him.

Option 5: You are a bad guy who feels threatened by Gleam for whatever reason and feels his immediate elimination from the game would best serve your interests.

There's probably other scenarios that could play out that I haven't fully processed yet, but I think those are the basics. Most of them either end badly or don't serve the best interests of the civilians in general. So let me posit you this:
IF we were to follow your lead (and by no means is this an endorsement or suggestion that we should follow you), would you be willing to let yourself be lynched next should the results of a Gleam lynch be less than favorable?

Also, I don't know if you missed it or just wanted to avoid my earlier question to you all together, but what was your opinion of Devin before Lizzy was revealed to be King of town and did her role reveal change any opinion you had of Devin?

Llama, what was your opinion of Devin before Lizzy was revealed to be King of town and did her role reveal change any opinion you had of Devin?

I don't even know where to begin anymore...(or should I say continue because I'm sure we ALL know where my badd guy thoughts begin and end at this point)...I've got the strong sense that we are being masterfully manipulated by a very coordinated and expert team of bad guys. I just can't figure out who is aiding MP in pulling the wool over our eyes and who may just be oblivious to the true danger that he is. Also for the record, I strongly believe MP is the cheerlaeder making him unlynchable which is why he has been so openly flambouant with his ludicrously long posts. He has a sort of safety net in that he can practically say anything he wants knwoing that any turn in the tide against him won't result in him being lynched. Putting myself out there like this definitely makes me a target for the Team Girl squad tonight, and should they use their night kill to off me, I'd like it to be known that my last wish is for MP to go down the next day if only to prove that my theory is correct and give the civilians a fighting chance.

Also, drinking and playing this game are not conducive to one another so I'm going to bed.

That's a HORRIBLE result from the lynch...horrible but somehwat telling. Like a few others have previously said, I was working under the theory that Devin was the King...so either he was full of poo and gambled that no one would call him out on the revival ability or...or...ok I can't think of any other reason why he would claim he rezzed Bullzeye. Kind of makes me wonder about Bullzeye's affiliation to be honest...

Gotta eat then time for more catch-up....mmmmm, ketchup!

Running late so I'm casting my usual vote for mp.