The Syndicate

I assumed it was because FZ used her ability, giving all pikmin + 2 votes. With there only being pikmin left, everybody but her had +2 votes.
She was also the last baddie, so her vote was worth 3. The pikmin could never have lynched her.

That being said, I looked at the night actions for Protagonists again to see if Simon had gotten nectar at any point, and noticed that Wilgy only got 1 pikmin N1 (which wasn't even the one he listed in his "If I were a Protagonist thingy" .) How did that happen MP?

Glorfindel wrote: Secondly, I really struggled to comprehend why any of you thought I was Mafia... The way I behaved in this game is classic 'Town Me' so if you doubt my sincerity, I think it will cause a problem at some point. Especially, I didn't get Typhoony. You KNEW there was someone out there who knew your identity. Early on when a number of people started voicing their suspicion of you, I'd not have thought it a big stretch for you to reason that someone who might defend you (or at least deflect the suspicions of others - as I did) just might have been Alph. In any case, it's a good thing you were eliminated by the Mafia when you were - if I'd had to read one more post where you were defaming me for likely having been 'bad', you'd have been hearing from my lawyers!

You have to realize that people can say things for different reasons.

Initially, when you made that post where you said you thought I was civ, I immediately pencilled you in as Alph. I mentioned that to Epi in BTSC at some point, pretty sure of that.
It was only later on, when it became clear that either you or K4J had to have been bad, that I started to second doubt that. I started to think that it was a possibility that the baddies had tried to kill me, failed, but thus knew that I was a protagonist and you could have been buddying up to me. That idea grew stronger and stronger until I just assumed you were bad.
So, you see, there are multiple ways to look at almost anything anyone posts, including what - in your eyes - was a clear hint to me that you were Alph.

In the end, it would not have mattered. I never looked at your posts to figure out who was bad, as I wasn't sure of that either. I never looked at K4Js posts for that either. I'm not going to base any of my conclusions on the basis that a person *may* have been bad and look through their posts. That was honestly the first thing (perhaps only) that made me go "eh" with regards to FZ, when she tried to do that.
Hell, in the very end I wasn't even sure Epi was rock pikmin anymore, even though I had multiple pieces of evidence that could hardly have been refuted. Mostly because he said in BTSC that he would follow my lead in voting, yet tried to have me vote agleam when I had mine on MM.


Baddies played a really good game. Combine that with the lack of civilian participation and the amazing amount of mislynches, we only have ourselves to blame.

I did like the caving aspect, except for that one time when Enrique and Soneji died because of it. Sorry for that guys

Should I not have survived the night I died because I found the blonde imposter:p?

Grats baddies, I am glad I managed to reach somewhat the right conclusions in my essays that I wrote to MP in the night I died, including trying to kill fz. Did you like those MP?

Thanks to epi for the btsc, that helped a lot

Is the Night lasting this long purely for Christmassy reasons?

Epignosis wrote:If I'm right about everything else in my spreadsheet, FZ. has to be the lone Mafia.

I realize that comes out of left field.

I decided to make a spreadsheet myself. My three questions marks are FZ, MM and Simon. But I am nowhere near as confident as you to say that FZ is the last baddie. I do think it's likely there is only one baddie left, but that is not set in stone either.

Epignosis wrote:If I'm right about everything else in my spreadsheet, FZ. has to be the lone Mafia.

I realize that comes out of left field.

Isn't this highly unlikely?

Let's look at the deaths:
Zebra: Pikmin
Sig: Pikmin
Sorsha: Pikmin
Scotty: Pikmin
Enrique + Soneji: Civvies
Matt: Pikmin
DDL: Civvie
Glorfindel: Likely bad
K4J: . From his posts I'd say civ, but it's possible he was bad I guess.
Boomslang: Pikmin
Wilgy: Civ
Agleaminranks: Pikmin

That leaves at a maximum: 5 civs, 2 baddies. Where K4J is the big question mark. If he was civ, we have 2 baddies left. If he was bad, we have 1 left.
Why do you think FZ is the lone mafia Epi?

Epignosis wrote:If I'm right about everything else in my spreadsheet, FZ. has to be the lone Mafia.

I realize that comes out of left field.

Are we sure there are actually baddies in this game?

Epignosis wrote:Is there really no more posting with less than an hour before the deadline?

Apparently not

I could still see SD being bad, but her posts today made me feel better about her.

I guess if Simon doesn't log in tonight and there is no kill we know who to vote tomorrow

Linki: Yes, I changed my vote to agleamin.

Linki2: I don't know.

Epignosis wrote: If I'm being honest, I think MM's sudden vote for me makes him look better, not worse. I don't believe he'd phone it in like that if he were bad.

MM has been on the site multiple times today though

FZ. wrote: If he wasn't and is not working with MM, who could be the last baddie with him, if there is one? I feel like we need to tie all loose ends here.

I think Simon would be the most likely to be bad then.

Ok.

If other people are also more comfortable voting agleam than MM, I will join them. Let me know what you think when you've read up FZ.

FZ. wrote:So you think MM and Agleaminranks are the left baddies?

Yes.

Typhoony wrote:It would not surprise me if all Pikmin have +2 votes right now because of the Phosbat's ability.
Assuming that atleast one baddie has died, that gives the Phosbat atleast 2 votes, maybe even 3 if the Wraith is dead as well. Even if the Wraith is alive, it's possible a Protagonist has been captured and it has 1 vote, so let's assume the baddies have 3 votes.

That would give Epi 5 votes atm.

Meaning that we all need to vote MM or Agleam, whoever we feel could be the Phosbat. I am, for now, comfortable leaving my vote on MM.

Do you agree with this Epi?
Do you have thoughts on who the Phosbat could be?
I'd like to get rid of that role considering the possibility of the Wraith surviving the lynch.

I apologize to MP for giving you such a shitty extra day :P

Hey agleam, if you wanna prove to me that you are not a baddie, now is your chance by voting MetalMarsh

After all, you suspect both him and Epi of being baddies, right?

It would not surprise me if all Pikmin have +2 votes right now because of the Phosbat's ability.
Assuming that atleast one baddie has died, that gives the Phosbat atleast 2 votes, maybe even 3 if the Wraith is dead as well. Even if the Wraith is alive, it's possible a Protagonist has been captured and it has 1 vote, so let's assume the baddies have 3 votes.

That would give Epi 5 votes atm.

Meaning that we all need to vote MM or Agleam, whoever we feel could be the Phosbat. I am, for now, comfortable leaving my vote on MM.

U wot?

There's more than enough time left to.. you know, discuss stuff.

That vote feels like you're a baddie who's quite confident he's going to win this lynch and decided to pile your vote on.

I'm seriously considering leaving my vote on MM if he doesn't show up at all. Thoughts?

agleaminranks wrote: I'm going back to my position on Epignosis and Metalmarsh being teammates after their Boomslang lynch. Is it a long shot to say that they would both fake being insanified, getting us to think there is a secret role, and have one of them initially vote for the other in order to cover up being bad? Maybe. But it's also a brilliant baddie tactic, and if it were true, a perfect way to hide and throw suspicions elsewhere. If I were a baddie, it's a strategy I would want to use.
My other thought was that early on, before being "insanified", neither of them really gave a ton of good reason to really explain their vote. The last two lynches have been bandwagons one or the other has started. They may have intentionally spread their votes earlier to avoid a correlation but now with so few players left, just two people on board with a lynch is enough to damn near anyone.

I'm back to yesterday where I was wondering if a baddie would push this theory so far.
To me the theory reads like complete nonsense and without any prior history of these two coming up with plans like this I doubt it's true.

Simon I think is probably good, I agree with Spacedaisy in that given how much scrutiny he was under he's probably just avoiding trying to say anything at all given that it might hurt the good guys if he was lynched.

This is not what she said. She said the opposite.

You're making it hard for me to believe you are a civilian agleaminranks, but I really don't want to be wrong again. Your reasons for your suspicion are based on a theory that has about a 1% chance of being true in my opinion, and that is almost all you have to offer.

But, you are willing to talk and that's good. Please come back and talk some more.
I'll put my vote on MetalMarsh for the time being, hoping it will make him talk.

I put a vote on agleaminranks for now. Maybe that will get him to talk.

I'll be very sparse on Friday and Saturday, since we have this silly thing called 2nd Christmas Day over here.

Awesome. Thanks MP!

I'm also here.

I'd prefer a longer Day 7 over a longer Day 6 if we can only choose one. Both to be longer might be even better

MetalMarsh where you at?

Is there a specific reason why you think MM is not bad SD?

Spacedaisy wrote: LOL you guys think me way more capable of being a clever and manipulative baddie than I really am. Intentionally making a mistake in thread is not something I have ever even thought of, let alone tried.

That's just the thing a baddie would say :P

Can you elaborate on your suspicion of agleaminranks?

Ok I found myself focusing too much on agleaminranks in my head, so I tried to look at other people instead.

Simon:
... I got nothing. There's almost no content at all in his posts. He pops in to vote from time to time or to randomly post something. His reasons for voting are either to save himself or <insert arbitrary reason>.
Best I can go on is the judgement of other people who have played with him, and they seem to think he is not bad, but I would really like some content from him.

Spacedaisy:
Her Day 1 was dominated by defending Glorfindel because she would like to give him the chance to enjoy a light hearted fun game. That's odd to me, but she has explained this multiple times in a way that could make sense.

Day 2 she mostly talked about Sig/Simon/Epi like everybody else. When she is asking questions it seems to me she really wants to figure things out and doesn't just ask things for the hell of it. She ended up voting Simon to tie it up, which is a shit reason if you ask me.

On Day 3 she voted Matt because he refused to make a case on Glorfindel, even after being asked for it, saying that nobody pays attention to his cases anyway and that the people questioning him are bad. Which is fair. There are also some other useful thoughts in that post for everyone to read.

On Day 4 she went against Glorfindel, mostly because she thought there could be a connection to Matt since he changed his mind on Glorfindel. She voted Matt again. Would've been interesting to see if she had gone against Glorfindel if Glor had survived N4, but alas.

And then there is Day 5, where she voted Epi because she felt more confident about Boom than Epi. Fair reason. Says she is susp of Me/Simon/Agleam in that order, has since made it Simon/Gleam/Me (I think?)

I'm leaning slightly more civ on her for now, and her read through made me more comfortable that Glorfindel was bad. I'll hold off on further judgement until she answers my earlier questions.

Also, while looking at the votes, I noticed that agleamingranks is the only one who hasn't yet voted for a lynched person. I find that suspicious... he knows who is bad and who not so it's easy to bathe his hands in innocence if anyone questions him on his voting record.
He has voted for people who were later lynched (Scotty D2, Matt D3). He never mentioned Scotty again after his D2 vote, except AFTER Scotty died. Exactly the same thing for Matt. And here I am focusing on algeaminranks again

I didn't mean to discourage you from trying to look for connections, but I think it's dangerous to look at somebody's connections when we don't have confirmation they are bad.
Yes, we have a solid reason to suspect atleast one of those three was bad... But that's it. DDL and K4J did not really ping me which would leave Glorfindel to be bad... but I don't know how substantial that is.

That's part of it, yes. Yesterday he made me feel a bit better when he stepped away from that theory, but today he immediately went back to it which took away any of those good feelings I had again.
I'll post a bit more later, have some other stuff to do first.

Who do you think is bad?

@ FZ:

Possible.
But there are more possibilities:
- With 7 people left, it's possible there are 4 civs - 3 baddies left, and that this could be the final lynch.
- If there are 2 baddies left, it's possible we lynch one and one gets killed by the protagonists tonight.
- The Snagret hasn't been online last night and wasn't able to send in the kill.
- MP would say that regardless of the result of this lynch/NK.

I think it's more likely the Snagret is dead (giving the Phosbat an extra vote) but I don't think the value is in figuring out if there is 1, 2 or 3 baddies left, I'd rather figure out who is actually bad.

Spacedaisy wrote:I don't understand your point. I forgot he was the one killed in the last night post put up. And when I remembered that (sadly only after MP busted up laughing at me) I recalled why I had not weighed in on him or suspected him, and why I thought it particularly bad that he had died.

May I ask why you thought this?
Are you the type of person who would make mistakes in the thread on purpose to make it seem like you are not bad? ("Woops I totally forgot Wilgy was dead")

Agleam: I went after Boomslang as well. Why are Epi and MM bad but not me? Why is Epi bad for going after Boomslang in the first place?

I want to see people talking today.

At the moment I do not see myself voting for Epi, FZ or MM.

SD and Simon are question marks to me.
I know SD suspects Me/Simon/Agleam in that order basically. I do not know who Simon suspects and it would be lovely if he would tell us.

Agleaminrank is my main suspect.

Worth nothing that it is the first time the Snagret did not kill.

Discuss.

What happened to make you suspicious of Epi and MM again?

I read that interaction as Epi being the Rock Pikmin and Boomslang trying to get rid of someone they can't kill.

... Oops?

I give up.

I look forward to hearing why you think I should be on the chopping block after you've read the thread.

Looking forward to hearing why you think I should be on the chopping block SD.

Spacedaisy wrote:Looking at this poll I'm concerned. I'm thinking this is one of two scenarios and neither one bodes well for us. Either one of us who has 1 vote is bad and there are baddies trying to vote Boom to ensure their teammate is safe or all of us getting votes right now are civ. I really don't feel baddie vibes from any of these lynch candidates and I know I'm not bad.

I feel more confident in Boom's innocence than Epi's I guess. I am voting Epi.

This is a tough lynch. Ugh.

You just said that you don't think Epi/MM/FZ are bad, but did not mention Boomslang. What made you more comfortable voting Epi over Boomslang in that short period of time?

I voted Boomslang for now.

FZ. wrote:I'm too freaking tired. I'm barely keeping my eyes open. Let's make a decision Typhony, because at the moment, you're one of the people who seem most civ to me

I'm not a phony thank you :P

I don't know how comfortable I am voting Boomslang without giving him a chance to defend himself (he's been online though, last seen 1 1/2 hours ago) but if it's going to be between Boomslang and Epi, I'm voting Boomslang.
I'm willing to let my agleam suspicion rest for a bit, his latest posts have made me felt better about him.
Wilgy... I'd like him to post more.

If I had to vote now, it would be Boomslang.

What do you mean you can't go back and read him? It's not that many posts.

You played on the Piano agleaminranks? What games?
Same question to Epi. I can't remember either on there.

FZ. wrote:

Typhoony wrote:How do you feel about Spacedaisy FZ?

Here is the thing. SD is another person I felt pretty good about aside from a post here or there that had me wondering. But, she hasn't been here since Matt's lynch. She was trusting of Epi like me, most game, but unlike me, was willing to follow Epi with the Simon suspicion. Then, after Epi went back on his suspicion, she never questioned it or asked questions, just moved to vote for Matt and said she agreed with me on most of the things. I don't even know if she's suspicious of Simon or if it was only following Epi. I would really like to hear more from her. And speaking of Simon, where did he disappear to?

linki: again, my thoughts exactly, Typhony

I was pinged a bit in the beginning by SDs "if you must vote for Glorfindel, vote for me" post and her vote for Simon in the sig lynch to "tie it up" is odd considering the possible vote manips. But what she posts seems genuine... She's low on my list but someone I am keeping an eye on.
Your point is interesting though and I'd like to hear what she says to that.

agleaminranks wrote:Am I the only one that noticed that Metalmarsh voted for Epignosis at the beginning of the day and then switched to Boomslang right around being "insanified"?

Frankly, if my theory is true, it's the perfect cover for disguising those two as teammates. I still think they want us to think that there's a hidden role that can insanify, but none of the logistics work out as far as timing and sensibility.

What do you think about the possibility of MM getting cursed => therefore figuring out that Epi was probably not faking it => thus taking away most of his reason to vote Epi?

How do you feel about Spacedaisy FZ?

agleaminranks wrote:

Typhoony wrote:

agleaminranks wrote:I'm leaning towards an Epignosis vote right now. I think he's hiding something nefarious and I don't like his current actions.

Do you think MM is also faking it?

With MM now talking in insanified, my theory now is that both he and Epignosis are faking it and attempting to make it look like they were insanified by highlighting little "hints" throughout. I think MM is attempting to make it look like his actions are being swayed by a baddie by switching his vote.

I say Epignosis and Metalmarsh are co-conspirator baddies. I vote Epignosis.

I don't know what to make of this honestly. It doesn't make any sense to me, that is for sure, but would a baddie agleaminranks post something like this?

If MM is faking it, he can easily let us know that, so for now I will assume his curse is real.

I don't think Boomslang is suspicious for voting Epi because he didn't answer his questions, that's mostly Epi focussing on things that are about him. I do think he is suspicious for his earlier convo with Epi there and with sticking with it for so long without really mentioning anybody else.

His initial suspicion of Epi came from the fact that Epi voted Rock pikmin, Boomslang doubts that anyone voted who they were, thus Epi was more likely to be a Boss.. That's a leap of logic in my opinion.

I think that's most of his case actually. That and Epi not answering his questions as he would like.
Then at the beginning of toDay he thinks nothing will change his mind that Epi is bad.
And recently he was looking really hard for more reasons why Epi could be bad and came up with using Glorfindels lists in a very arbitrary way.

Boomslang, do you suspect anyone but Epi?