The Syndicate

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:27 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:25 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:23 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:22 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm

I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.
There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.
They had all claimed only you and Sloonei hadn’t?
Right, fair enough. Then you targeted Sloonei. He's the better one to kill anyway.
He wouldn’t be better to kill he has me as a townread
He'd be a better kill because he is a town read. You'd want to keep me around for lynch bait.
lynch bait oo ha ha

Is that not a cool expression these days? I mean you would kill the townread guy and leave the guy who has more suspicion.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 pm Though additional thought: with two scum last night if it was me and speed and we both had additional kills we were maxing out at two — I wouldn’t have had an opportunity to use my power, so this is all moot

What's "maxing out"?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:25 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:23 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:22 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:13 pm LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?
I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.
There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.
They had all claimed only you and Sloonei hadn’t?
Right, fair enough. Then you targeted Sloonei. He's the better one to kill anyway.
He wouldn’t be better to kill he has me as a townread

He'd be a better kill because he is a town read. You'd want to keep me around for lynch bait.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:22 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:13 pm LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?
I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.
There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.
They had all claimed only you and Sloonei hadn’t?

Right, fair enough. Then you targeted Sloonei. He's the better one to kill anyway.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:13 pm LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?
I think you are misunderstanding me.

If Tony is bad and his role is that he can and must kill Desmond, then there’s a good chance he can figure out that it’s you by the time last night roles around. That being the case he would have shot you without hesitation. If that happens there are four deaths and I am the only civilian left alive, so the game is over.

So if you believe that Tony’s role is in fact designed specifically to kill you, and that he is mafia, then you should be dead. The game would be over.

There were a lot more people around to target last night than there are right now.

LOL why? Especially when it makes no sense by the game not being over?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:02 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:01 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:59 pm @Long Con if tony is mafia and his objective is just to kill a civilian Desmond, then the game is already over.
I think you misunderstand something
I’m saying that if you have the role that you claim to have but you are mafia then Long Con would have died in the night. Is that not the case?

No, he didn't target me. Are you still believing the lie?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:59 pm @Long Con if tony is mafia and his objective is just to kill a civilian Desmond, then the game is already over.

Not if we lynch him...

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:55 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:52 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:49 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:48 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:13 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:06 pm Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.
SHOULD HAVE TARGETED LC
LOL ok, so now it's revealed that you lied and were trying to get me to reveal my role so you could kill me. Figured as much.
What lie did he tell?
He lied about how his role worked to get me to reveal my character and give the scum a free kill.
Clarificatory PM

It's a clever plan whether you are town or scum. Disappointed you say that.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:04 pm Do either of you have any desire to make any sort of case against me?

The best case I can see is your treatment by Turnip Head. Looks like distancing.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:49 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:48 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:13 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:06 pm Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.
SHOULD HAVE TARGETED LC
LOL ok, so now it's revealed that you lied and were trying to get me to reveal my role so you could kill me. Figured as much.
What lie did he tell?

He lied about how his role worked to get me to reveal my character and give the scum a free kill.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:33 pm Why would scum LC claim to have vote manipulation at all?

What happens if you target a player who's not Desmond?
Well that gets to the honesty question — I hesitate about his claim because of that.

Nothing.

Oh, of course, you expect scum to be honest about that kind of thing. It's a pretty big stretch to believe that you believe that. Here's a simpler explanation: you are scum.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:13 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:06 pm Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.
SHOULD HAVE TARGETED LC

LOL ok, so now it's revealed that you lied and were trying to get me to reveal my role so you could kill me. Figured as much.

Anyway, I'm going to line up at Walmart for a few hours. Be back later. Probably be checking in on my phone during the wait as well, I guess.

And when I said "results may vary", that was my own words... I synonym-changed the role because I wasn't sure about quoting PMs exactly. The real words indicate that it depends on the role I target.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:13 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:12 pm Day 1 I forgot to use my ability because I'm used to using abilities at night. Day 2 I targeted ts account, and I was able to target a player at night, and be told if they’re an assassin character or not. Day 3 I targeted Tony to verify the truth of his claim, and I got nothing from it.
I should stop asking questions.

I struggle with the claim that you “got nothing” from Tony’s role. Surely you’d still get something, even if he was bad. “Getting nothing” implies he’s vanilla.

I do get a "nerfed version" so if his is limited to finding and killing me, then it's understandable.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:11 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:06 pm Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.
What does Desmond do?

see above

Day 1 I forgot to use my ability because I'm used to using abilities at night. Day 2 I targeted ts account, and I was able to target a player at night, and be told if they’re an assassin character or not. Day 3 I targeted Tony to verify the truth of his claim, and I got nothing from it.

Desmond Miles: each day, beginning on Day 1, I can target a player and use a nerfed version of their ability the following phase (results may vary).

Ok, well then my "spirit vote" is on Tony. His role claim is a lie. I'm Desmond, and I'm Civ, and there's no way in hell he wouldn't have tried to kill me last night if he had the chance. I assume he tried to target someone else with his power (likely to kill Desmond if you can find him). He was trying to draw me out so he'd know who to target.

Sloonei, I'm town, and voting Tony is the way for us to win the game.

It's the Desmond thing. I don't think he's being honest about it.

Epi, speed, and Tony. First alt Mikey.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:31 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:22 am
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:35 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:56 am [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Today is super busy I'll catch up later.

But I maintain that self-votes are bad.
this is the best case of genuine distancing i have for speed and lc. this could've caught on. it really could've at the beginning of d2
I guess "genuine distancing" qualifies this in the way you intend it, but generally I see "distancing" as a term solely for use for two Mafia teammates. This is exonerating speedchuck for you?
I feel like the way she meant it is reasonably clear in context and your nitpicking about the exact wording not being flawless is a bad look.

Did I get it wrong? Why is it a bad look?

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:35 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:56 am [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Today is super busy I'll catch up later.

But I maintain that self-votes are bad.
this is the best case of genuine distancing i have for speed and lc. this could've caught on. it really could've at the beginning of d2

I guess "genuine distancing" qualifies this in the way you intend it, but generally I see "distancing" as a term solely for use for two Mafia teammates. This is exonerating speedchuck for you?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:05 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:59 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:55 pmLong Con has largely left the game behind. His only significant act today was to attempt to speed Epignosis through a hammer which would have silenced nutella and I. Long Con is a mafioso.
I haven't left the game behind. I'm keeping up, I'm reading and judging things. I post things when they come to mind. I know I'm not much help. Sorry.

As for the Epi hammer penultimate vote thing, I wasn't trying to stifle conversation. I wasn't thinking about that. funnygurl had claimed to counter Epi's night action claim, and Sloonei had also refuted (since recanted, I know). I wasn't sitting in a baddie chat saying "let's bulldog this lynch quick!", I was just participating. I'm glad we didn't drop the hammer back then, because a lot of stuff has come to light since.
I'm not 100% you're a mafioso, so there's plenty of room still for Long Con insights. We'll be listening. If not you though, we need to know who it is.

Well, if Epi is a lock, then we have a hell of a lot of time to hash it out.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:26 pm Epignosis currently has three votes: Long Con, speedchuck, and ts account.

His teammates want this day to be over more than the civilians do.

If you're afraid of a sudden hammer move, I can change the vote.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:55 pmLong Con has largely left the game behind. His only significant act today was to attempt to speed Epignosis through a hammer which would have silenced nutella and I. Long Con is a mafioso.

I haven't left the game behind. I'm keeping up, I'm reading and judging things. I post things when they come to mind. I know I'm not much help. Sorry.

As for the Epi hammer penultimate vote thing, I wasn't trying to stifle conversation. I wasn't thinking about that. funnygurl had claimed to counter Epi's night action claim, and Sloonei had also refuted (since recanted, I know). I wasn't sitting in a baddie chat saying "let's bulldog this lynch quick!", I was just participating. I'm glad we didn't drop the hammer back then, because a lot of stuff has come to light since.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:26 pm Note that we are effectively one vote shy of the hammer right now given the placement of Epi's own vote.

I see three Epi votes.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:12 pm just pointing out the discrepancy

Let's stick to real suspicions for now maybe?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:10 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:08 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:05 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:03 pm Is Nanook known for strange roles like that? My role is nowhere near as unusual.
did you see Mac's?
That is a cool role. And unusual... and I want to steal it for my next game.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:06 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:05 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:03 pm Is Nanook known for strange roles like that? My role is nowhere near as unusual.
did you see Mac's?
Mac had an extremely limited (and targeted) kill paired with pretty good every other night protection, if I understand it. It was perfectly normal.
someone's lying

We're allowed to have different opinions.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:06 pm if there's a town doctor or something this could perhaps be simplified but I don't know if in this sort of situation you'd want to out the town doctor

This sounds wack. Huh?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:07 pm [VOTE: Epi] aubergine I think we have like an hour left unless I miscounted days

Word is that we have another day.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:05 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:03 pm Is Nanook known for strange roles like that? My role is nowhere near as unusual.
did you see Mac's?

That is a cool role.

And unusual... and I want to steal it for my next game.

ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:03 pm I believe the world we are in is one in which finding Desmond is the only winning line Mafia have. Therefore, I suggest we continue with the Epignosis lynch, and if we lose in the night I will take responsibility. We cannot play around scum Tony if they are telling the truth here unless we lynch them, and I personally believe that is not the course of action we should take.

Agreed. We can't risk the lynch when we have a big fish already on the hook.

Is Nanook known for strange roles like that? My role is nowhere near as unusual.

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:22 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:18 pm speedchuck screaming in here with LIAR and voting for Not Epignosis stinks something awful
i mean this is good info 'cause this is just way too much for tsp / speed to be partners. unless this is another thing y'all do on this forum

that helps me 'cause it means lc's a good lynch after epi

If Epignosis' lynch is nigh-inevitable today, then that's a great way to do some distancing.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:54 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:53 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:52 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:50 pm I suppose that would make more sense. In line with the anti monitor from GoC
So, that's what it really is, right? You were just messing with us?
no I don't have to know
But they're functionally the same, right? I'm never reasonably choosing to kill someone without knowing who I'm hitting?

I don't find them the same at all.

Tony, you gonna use it tonight?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:49 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:48 pm LOL ok I'm a bit confused. Tony says his role is to kill Desmond. He targets a player every odd night, and if they're Desmond, then they die. No?
No, he said that he kills the role and he doesn't have to know who they are. If he's not lying about this, it's a very broken role.

OH, so he can just make the kill happen by snapping his Gauntlet, but he doesn't know if it's Civ or bad? That is wack.

LOL ok I'm a bit confused. Tony says his role is to kill Desmond. He targets a player every odd night, and if they're Desmond, then they die. No?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:41 pm LC is gonna be so confused after he catches up

LOL why? So far a lot of the talk is about you using a specific-character-kill. I don't really get the confusion, maybe it's because you slowplayed the claim so much. I've seen that type of role as both town and Mafia aligned before, and it's not that uncomon.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:58 pm Wagonomics is terrible.

Equity is terrible.

EV is terrible.

Sticking an exclamation mark into a two-word phrase to indicate a hypothetical e.g. scum!JJJ is terrible.

"____ is always mafia here" is terrible.

WIM is terrible.

Lingo is terrible.
Wow, thank you for saying that out loud. I don't use any of these terms, and almost always find them to be a) terrible, or b) playing Mafia at a different level than I play, which is intimidating.
Can you please say something about the relevant content in the thread? This is a very awkward time to be OT-bantering.

Awkward? Not sure what you mean, but I'm a few pages behind and reading.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:58 pm Wagonomics is terrible.

Equity is terrible.

EV is terrible.

Sticking an exclamation mark into a two-word phrase to indicate a hypothetical e.g. scum!JJJ is terrible.

"____ is always mafia here" is terrible.

WIM is terrible.

Lingo is terrible.

Wow, thank you for saying that out loud. I don't use any of these terms, and almost always find them to be a) terrible, or b) playing Mafia at a different level than I play, which is intimidating.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:59 pm Can anyone tell me why they aren't inclined to answer Tony's call for a character claim?

It's a foreign idea to me, I'm waiting to see unanimous approval of the plan. Once I do it, it can't be undone. I'm not making that decision based on just me and Tony.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:51 pm I may have to go full JJJ for this one. I might have to be my worst self.

Whatever gets us the win, my Lord.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:18 am mikey reminds me of another wrinkle that's sure induce more headaches. funnygurl claims that ted was among the players targeting mac Night 1. Here is ted's role:
Misthios: You’re a hardened mercenary! This means that each night, you can either STRONGARM someone, which means they won’t be able to vote you the next day, or you can SELLSWORD, which will give you a neighborhood with someone the following day. You can use STRONGARM once per game (and not at MYLO or LYLO), and SELLSWORD twice per game.

You are a Righteous Warrior and win when all the Heathenous Spies have been eliminated.
I highly doubt ted would strongarm Mac after Day 1. Ted was a suspect, but Mac was one of his most vocal advocates in the thread. ted could have been worried about votes on Day 2, but Mac would not have been someone he'd have to worry about. This point is made even stronger by the 1-shot limitation.

Therefore, barring redirection, it is much more likely that ted would be targeting Mac with a sellsword shot. I tried to look for evidence that they'd have had BTSC on Day 2, but results were hard to come by. There were a few contentious moments between them on Day 2 that might be an indication that there was no BTSC. If there was no BTSC, that can be explained by Mac's pirate ship. But then we're back to "if Mac was on his ship, funnygurl should not have a report on him."

I didn't click the link, but if there was little interaction between them in the thread, I would say that is evidence that BTSC was occurring. They don't need to have thread interactions, unless they want to BTSC-signal, or something. Better to look for synchronous opinions, maybe?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:52 am The worst crime by one of my civilian reads was Long Con’s hammer-that-wasn’t. Even if Epignosis is a mafioso that was bad.

I was aware that I was putting him within one vote of a hammer, not actually hammering him. Just a little fun thrust. No one jumped on the final hammer vote.

ts account wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:15 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:13 am Regular > Cinnamon
I have to agree with you there. Unless you mean flavorless>cinnamon in general, in which case we are enemies again.

I knew he liked it!!

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:55 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:55 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:54 pm I still want answers to my question about mac. Knowing what we know about mac and this game, do we think it is more likely that he used his pirate ship on Night 1 or Night 2? This has major implications.
Night 1.
Why?

The ever-present spectre of Death.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:54 pm I still want answers to my question about mac. Knowing what we know about mac and this game, do we think it is more likely that he used his pirate ship on Night 1 or Night 2? This has major implications.

Night 1.

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