The Syndicate

Dom wrote:LC, what do you make of Mac and his subdued game?

It's a way to play. Difficult to analyze, and I don't particularly know his meta to any degree.

DrWilgy wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Long Con is bad, and you have to trust me on this. I've made some bad calls this game, but this one is different.

Long Con isn't bad, and you have to trust me on this. I've made some bad calls this game, but this one is different as well.

But what's Boomslang's angle here?

Boomslang wrote:Long Con is bad, and you have to trust me on this. I've made some bad calls this game, but this one is different.

Spicy!

Rico got the gist and subtext of my post a lot better than you, Mac.

Mmmm, joking? About what again?

Ricochet wrote:

Long Con wrote:What happened to curses in this game?

Dunno. Only the questions one from D1 is unrevealed, right? The Brangelina and Chersonny ones seem to have stemmed from the night poll - although, why only those two?

Who has had the questions one? Draconus, and someone else, right?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:What happened to curses in this game?

What happened to me being killed for voting for you?

It's a slow death.

What happened to curses in this game?

S~V~S was the Trickster in Mafia: A World Reborn. She had the secret power to create Night Polls for certain effects. I know she enjoyed the role very much, so it's not crazy to think she might have included it in this game.

We believe the Night Polls are controlling the Positions, 1 thru 5. The Night Polls also have added effects, such as making Tranq post Brangelina pics or me put a Sonny and Cher lyric in each post. If I had failed at my Sonny and Cher curse... well, the first time I missed it my vote was null, and another miss would have resulted in me getting roleblocked that night. So these Night Polls have additional, negative effects, which makes them look more like Trickster-style effects and less like Random Host Fun.

Maybe the Trickster is controlling the vote of everyone who voted David Bowie, or something. Or he's immune last night or tonight from powers from Bowie voters. If he even exists.

Draconus wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Hey Ricochet, when does the show start?

Also, I'm thinking about doing a Undertale Mafia.

No idea, I blew my weekend up.

Me too.

Long Con wrote:Ok, I'll add the fruit thing to my Ignore List.

Right, because Shinigami being imported is ignorable, but Tricksters pitting David Bowie next to shitty pop in order to bait votes and mafia revealing their own roles on purpose have to be right.

So do you think that night poll was manufactured by a player? Do we know anything about position 4? I think it was the 4th choice... can't remember now.

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:For reference, I wouldn't imagine HB intentionally role-checking a player as potential baddie by kamikaze'ing, except if he'd leave major "X is my friend, I'mma stick around with him tonight" type of breadcrums (which I don't recall in this case). It's obvious we're not getting any closer to figuring out who he might have hidden behind, so his attempt would most likely go to waste, if he would try it out like that.

By all means, if you can find a better alternative to a player he may have hid behind on Night 3.

It is most likely he hid and died behind somebody.

I didn't mean that, Captain Obvious! I meant intentionally hiding behind a prime suspect, to test if he really is bad. I'm more of the belief it was a deadly accident.

Who would you say HB might have cleared, based on hiding behind without trouble on previous Nights?

Probably the people on his trusted list. Probably me, really.

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Hey Ricochet, when does the show start?

Also, I'm thinking about doing a Undertale Mafia.

No idea, I blew my weekend up.

Me too.

Long Con wrote:Ok, I'll add the fruit thing to my Ignore List.

Right, because Shinigami being imported is ignorable, but Tricksters pitting David Bowie next to shitty pop in order to bait votes and mafia revealing their own roles on purpose have to be right.

Ok, I love apples.

FZ is my prime suspect today at this point. I will have to do a reread of her posts before pulling the trigger though... but what I remember looks bad to me, and her posts today didn't help.

Ok, I'll add the fruit thing to my Ignore List.

Ricochet wrote:

Long Con wrote:What is this fruit thing??!

Certain roles are supposed to like a certain fruit, if said certain roles exist in this game. I've basically tried to get some role hints by asking about the "fruit thing".

Which roles are those? Is this from Death Note?

Ricochet wrote:What should a neutral role do, if he shouldn't care about voting/lynching anyone?

Surviving.

And yeah, MM, it really depends how kamikaze HBoy was. Would you hide behind your biggest suspicion as the Hider?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:LC... we were both wrong about JJJ. What do you make of that?

Well, it's pretty crappy. I hijacked a chunk of the game chasing him and he was telling the truth. Kubrick's so-called role card was surely placed there to implicate JJJ, and I fell for it. At least we didn't waste a lynch on him.

LC, what do you think of Dom?

I have felt pretty good about Dom all game, but he could be a baddie. I don't really have a solid read on him yet. I know that's a bit wishy-washy, but it's how I feel.

FZ. wrote:RIP JJJ. This is a depressing death. You'll be missed

Long Con wrote:FZ has my eye today.

FZ. wrote:WTF, why did you end up lynching Tranq?

Especially JJJ, why did you vote Tranq? I'm not fully caught up. I noticed you were hesitating voting MM because he claimed to be an indie, yet I remember you clearly thinking Tranq was a civ. How did you end up preferring to lynch someone you considered a civ over someone who at best is an indie?

By the way, I saw Bea comparing this to Death Note, where TH was an indie who had to survive and tried to help the civvies. This is not similar because TH actually did try to help the civvies, while MM is doing nothing of the sort. Unless he changed his behaviour and started looking for suspects in the posts I haven't read yet.


JJJ, why did you vote Lorab on day 3.0 and then changed it to DH on day 3.5? What ever happened to your suspicion of DH? You haven't even talked about it last day.

LC, I'm starting to think there's a chance I've been fooled all along.

In light of JJJ's Civ flip, this post looks sketchy to me. Add that to buddying Golden and JJJ, and you have yourself a baddie.

She deserves a thorough ISO from this perspective.

This is the most absurd post I have ever read. It can't be that I was just right, and you were wrong about those people (assuming you're not bad). I was right about Sig, abdou Golden and about JJJ. I think I'm playing a championship game. I'm pretty pleased with myself. I also didn't lynch Tranq, and even if MM isn't bad, lynching him would have been a much better result than lynching Tranq. So instead of thinking maybe you should start listening to me, you go and accuse me? Nice job.

Now, tell me why you shouldn't be considered bad after all this time voting for JJJ? And don't tell me that you would have just gotten him lynched. Apparently, that wasn't working, and besides, everyone thinks that you wouldn't kill him if you were pushing for his lynch. I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced about anything, because last night, I was starting to doubt myself looking at JJJ's voting as well as Sorsha in days I knew something about their vote. Turns out I was wrong about that, so it doesn't really matter.

I'm pissed. I think it's time civvies started thinking straight this game, because we'll lose it if we don't.

Well, you're accusing me after I accused you. Would you have said this stuff if I hadn't suspected you first? I guess we'll never know.

What do you mean, "those people"?


Oh, I see: Sig, Golden, JJJ, and Tranq. So I was wrong about sig when I thought he sounded Civ and said so during his lynch. I was wrong about Golden when I didn't suspect him. I was wrong about Tranq when I didn't vote for him during his lynch.

FZ has my eye today.

FZ. wrote:WTF, why did you end up lynching Tranq?

Especially JJJ, why did you vote Tranq? I'm not fully caught up. I noticed you were hesitating voting MM because he claimed to be an indie, yet I remember you clearly thinking Tranq was a civ. How did you end up preferring to lynch someone you considered a civ over someone who at best is an indie?

By the way, I saw Bea comparing this to Death Note, where TH was an indie who had to survive and tried to help the civvies. This is not similar because TH actually did try to help the civvies, while MM is doing nothing of the sort. Unless he changed his behaviour and started looking for suspects in the posts I haven't read yet.


JJJ, why did you vote Lorab on day 3.0 and then changed it to DH on day 3.5? What ever happened to your suspicion of DH? You haven't even talked about it last day.

LC, I'm starting to think there's a chance I've been fooled all along.

In light of JJJ's Civ flip, this post looks sketchy to me. Add that to buddying Golden and JJJ, and you have yourself a baddie.

She deserves a thorough ISO from this perspective.

Dom wrote:LC... we were both wrong about JJJ. What do you make of that?

Well, it's pretty crappy. I hijacked a chunk of the game chasing him and he was telling the truth. Kubrick's so-called role card was surely placed there to implicate JJJ, and I fell for it. At least we didn't waste a lynch on him.

RIP JJJ.

FZ, what thoughts were you going to share?

Ziggy played guitar
I fear that David Bowie
Be a Trickster's trick

In other words... just what I was saying before, about obvious choices for night polls. This one reeks of it. The thing is, Position 4 is the desired Position generally. So it's not like a Trickster would have needed to trick people into voting for the fourth option.

Mislynching a Civvie
Is sad, beyond any doubt
But avoid despair!

16 players, and I estimate 6 baddies left. That's going on the idea of two baddie teams of four. Could be up to 8 baddies left if there's two teams of five. Or, with one big baddie team... I estimate 5 left. Not sure which I would prefer, really - with two teams we might get baddies killing baddies. If there is truly 1 kill per night now, then we still have a chance.

Well, that's a sucky result. I feel like Tranq could have fought a lot harder to live. Dropping Golden's name just once in the last day might have made a difference.

Votes Mac then.

Maybe we'll get a Tranq CFD before the lynch is up.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Long Con

Just quoting this for the hosts to prove you really voted for me. Now you have to transfer me $100 or you will die!

Do you fear death?

No, I'm immune to nightkills as well.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Long Con

Just quoting this for the hosts to prove you really voted for me. Now you have to transfer me $100 or you will die!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:That sounds fun.

Bass_the_Clever - wasn't he replaced?
DharmaHelper - civ
Dom - bad
Dr. Wilgy - bad
Draconus - civ
FZ. - civ
JaggedJimmyJay - bad
Juliets - civ
Long Con - bad
MacDougall - KFM - civ
Matt - civ
Metalmarsh - ...
nijuukyugou - bad
Sorsha - civ
Spacedaisy - bad
Tranq - civ

I generally disagree with most of these. Red ones are ones I disagree. Green are agree. Gold neutral.

Linki: My role actually kills anyone who casts a vote for me, so be my guest, at your peril...

MM is neutral with a Win Condition unrelated to Civs and baddies? Well damn, what a coincidence, so am I!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Long Con has at least taken personal ownership of my case. He is wrong, but wrong happens. I was wrong about llama; his being an independent killer was pure chance and we got lucky. If there's anything about LC's recent content that bothers me, it's that he claimed to find my WIFOM response believable (I don't know why that would have meant anything to him after all the argument we've already engaged in).

You know, it's like this: I would rather follow the evidence and the cases I've made and be wrong, than get convinced by you that you're not bad and get fooled and lose. I know that there is almost nothing in the world that a Civvie can say that a baddie cannot, and I really believe that you have enough experience to say the right things to "look Civ" even when you're not. I can do that; I have done that. I've fleeced my way to a baddie win on silver tongue alone, leaving Civvies who trusted me blasted and shamed in my wake. There's a few out there that will never fully trust me, ever again.

That said... I'm tired of owning this case. I was thinking last night, why did the Kubrick card show up when it did? Just at the right time to implicate you, really. HOW did the Kubrick card show up? Barry Allen is dead...

Barry Allen - Flash CIVVIE
Every Night, Barry Allen chooses a character from a 2015 Job or Side Mission. If that character is included in this game, their role will be revealed on the front page.

... and how many characters are there to choose from in ALL the 2015 Jobs and Side Missions? Hundreds? It seems like it would take incredible amounts of luck to make this role anything but Vanilla, but that's beside the point. A role that can use the powers of dead players is somewhat likely to exist, but did that role actually choose Kubrick from hundreds of roles and place it out there at just the right time?

I have already posited the existence of a Trickster in this game. It would be pretty cool to give that Trickster the ability to put a fake role card into the game at some point. How to take advantage of that? How can the Trickster use that power to gain an advantage? Maybe implicate someone somehow? Obviously this has gone far down the road to Supposition City, but the timing of the Kubrick reveal, the fact that Barry is dead, creates some questions that ought to have answers discussed.

Let's do this Jimmy. My oldest suspicion is Boomslang, and though I'm barely feeling it anymore, I don't let go of that kind of thing easily. Draconus is my biggest other suspicion. And I want to kill the players that are coasting through nonsense and lurking. Metalmarsh, Macdougall, Tranq... who else is playing the "unhelpful brand of Mafia" card?

*votes Metalmarsh89*

Also, why do you think there's just one baddie team?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Question for any non-Sorsha player who knows her (and LoRab) better than I do:

It's been suggested that LoRab would not be fond of being bussed by her team mates, and Sorsha made a pointed effort to cast suspicion on her constently prior to her demise. Do Sorsha and LoRab have much history playing Mafia together regardless of alignment? Have they played in the same places prior to The Syndicate? With those questions in mind, would you put it past Sorsha to bus LoRab in this game?

Sorsha and Lorab are old Mafia-mates. I believe that Sorsha would bus Lorab, and I don't have any personal recollection of Lorab being particularly anti-bussing. I don't know if I believe that Sorsha DID bus Lorab, but the idea that Lorab is anti-bussing is not going to factor into my analysis. As far as I'm concerned, Lorab is an experienced player who has the ability to suggest and carry out a great variety of strategies, including agreeing to be bussed when the heat was on since Day 0.

DrWilgy, don't you have anything to say? I'm here, refreshing occasionally, but no one is posting and I'm like . I saw you reading up and y u no post?

Dom wrote:Thank you both for your answers.


Sorsha, I'm testing LC-- I'm a bit wary of an LC that I intuitively trust.

Cool, did I pass?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't think I've ever intuitively trusted or had a good gut feeling about LC to begin with. Even when I'm bad, I think he's bad,

*waits expectantly for sentence to finish*

I'm a bit nullish on Sorsha right now. I don't particularly have a read on her either way, and I can't say with any certainty that skimming for her name is indicative of her alignment.

On one hand, Macdougall's possible vacillation on whether Lorab was bad or not can be viewed as a teammate who doesn't want to make a hard call either way.

On the other hand, Matt, your questions to Mac in those posts could be viewed as you being Lorab's teammate, knowing she was bad, and setting up Mac for a fall later if he answers wrong about her.

Anyway, going to work soon.

HamburgerBoy, who did he hide behind on the night he died?

In reverse order chronologically:

His last post certifies that his biggest suspicion is of Dom.

In this post, he puts MM toward the yellower section of the suspicion list.

In the same post, he says he trusts Long Con.

Suspicion of Dom.

Civ read of DharmaHelper.

Suspicious of Draconus, and also Dom, Draco, Wilgy, and maybe nijuu.

A couple of Dom suspicion posts.

Wishy-washy about bea and juliets.

Believes JJJ looks less likely to be on a bad team, due to reasons.

Done for now. This is a link to HBoy's posts oif anyone wants to continue on with this.

DrWilgy wrote:Who all has placed votes on you LC?

I believe there were some temp votes, but I didn't see any votes for me in the Poll Thread.

I also support a Metalmarsh lynch. That guy gets to la-dee-da his way through the game with crap, while Black Rock catches a baddie on Day 1 and gets executed for it?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

Which of my rebuttals did you find believable and reasonable?

The latest one, where you said you are confident in your ability to wriggle out of a lynch, so you wouldn't ask Lorab to make it Position 1, possibly denying teammates the chance to explore other Positions Of Power. That sounds both believable and reasonable.

It looks like the only real thing that has been done today are some quick JJJ votes. I did vote him already. I didn't say so in the thread, but whatever. I've certainly said everything I need to say about him, and he has made some very believable and reasonable rebuttals.

Let's not forget that HBoy's death was most likely by his own hand.

Ricochet wrote:Questionne for everyonne:

Right now, if you could name a player you find most civvie but could potentially backstab you, who would that player be?

My answer is you, Ricochet. This idea is pretty much guaranteed to be unpopular, but wouldn't it be diabolical to make a role like yours that has a Seemer element, in that your Day 1 lynch reveals you as a Civvie when you are actually a baddie, with continued BTSC with the other baddies?

I only think of these things because I tend to be an evil host like that when I can, and I think it's important to consider all possibilities.

DharmaHelper wrote:Question(s) to the thread:

Who was it that first brought up the idea of Roger Rabbit corrupting the Kubrick flip? Who ran with that thought process?

That was not me, I never thought that made much sense.

Who was it that first theorized that there was only one baddie team?

I believe I have theorized this before. I don't know if I was first to do so. I also thought that a post from S~V~S seemed to hint at multiple teams for the baddies. I feel like something recently made me think one big baddie team was a possibility again, but I don't remember what made me think that. I think there are probably two baddie teams, but I don't think it matters very much what the setup is, if we're not going to know a thing until the game is over.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:There isn't a "good/better" position to vote for. Position 1 is the only taboo position so far, if you're civ-minded. There shouldn't be any lobby for voting any other position because it's "better".

I actually agree with Tranq. Yes, it's possible there's another position 4 baddie still out there, but with one confirmed and dead there's a valid reason to be less concerned with that position than the others. There are a lot of possible scenarios and one of them is "only one baddie operating on position 4".

I also agree. There are x-1 baddies who benefit from Position 4, where x is the average number of baddies who started the game with each Position. Or something like that. The rest are x, which is a greater chance of MORE baddies benefiting, right?

FZ. wrote:Don't you think that at this stage, if we figured out the poll is positions, the hosts my shift positions around and not fit it to chronological order?

I do think that they're likely mixing it up, and they may have been doing it all along for all I know. I've seen arguments against it, but there's ways to get around them. "They wouldn't randomize them on the baddies, making them unable to plan their Position!" Well, they could just tell the people with Positions which options stands for which number.

I also think that there may be a Trickster-type role that can affect the content and game-result of the night polls - that's the role SVS had in A World Reborn, and I know she enjoyed it. Perhaps this role is inventing things like the Brangelina Photo Shoot and the Sonny and Cher Revival. So I would advise people to be wary of an option that is a big crowd-pleaser, a likely choice to get more votes. It could be a trap designed by a baddie. I'm going to go with hat and sunscreen, because it's the lamest one.