The Syndicate

Cheers on that last lynch. Didn't read it, but saw the result. Wow.

Thanks to our spectacular hosts, this game is huge. Huge. People are saying that it may be one of the most beloved games of all time. This is very good for our country.

My rainbow looks something like this, but I don't see why it couldn't be anyone below the top three.... Me as Civ, Jack as mech cleared, Wilgy as derp cleared. Who else has done some convincing towny stuff that should be moved up to the greens?

Long Con
Jackofhearts2005
Dr. Wilgy
speedchuck
Dragon D. Luffy
M Plus 7
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Hyena
TonyStarkPrime
juliets

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:17 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:08 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:57 pm Boris Johnson flipped town and so did good things like soap and zoom, so I’m not putting a ton of stock into names being tied to alignments tbh.
I don't care for the timing and nature of this comment. Idle chatter that does no usable analysis, while seeming to be productive discussion. Same issue I had with Nanook early on. I think this is a tell, especially with many folk being townread, and two Civs just mislynched. I think Nanook is bad.
It’s relevant to Juliet’s claim

Gotcha, I missed that.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:57 pm Boris Johnson flipped town and so did good things like soap and zoom, so I’m not putting a ton of stock into names being tied to alignments tbh.

I don't care for the timing and nature of this comment. Idle chatter that does no usable analysis, while seeming to be productive discussion. Same issue I had with Nanook early on. I think this is a tell, especially with many folk being townread, and two Civs just mislynched. I think Nanook is bad.

I like that reality.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:13 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:37 pm Although

Idk actually town replacing into a scum slot is kinda

Fuck me now I have to actually think about the game

I still blame jack
The MP lynch is 100% my fault. Nutella can bear some of the blame for her own lynch, as can some other players. We shouldn't have lynched MP at all though.

Dislike. Hyena's case is what put MP into the lynchlight.

Don't bother going after me.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:14 pm I think we have to reconsider Jack.

We'd have to believe that the baddies would give up a role steal (role check) for a dubious clearance plan. They couldn't predict MR's death.

I vote Weapons Match.

Well dammit. Sorry old friends.

I wish I knew how to emulate my Civ game.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:48 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:47 pm I feel like I’m wasting a resource but idk what else to ask. Do I just have blinders on with juliets, is her wolf game really that good?

Only thing that’s vaguely pinged me with her is the overexplanation for a self prez vote
She and LC are two of the hardest players ever for me to read across any site honestly.

Not really. When I'm Civ, I get Civ read more often than not. When I'm bad, it's a huge damn struggle against constant suspicion.

I thought Hyena was too clean to consider.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Sorry nutella, but your case on juliets was too uninspiring on second look.

Ok, not Hyena then.

Is my secret vote moot at this point? IS it MP for sure?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:29 pm Like I would bet on hyena town almost as much as I would on jack tbh

Jack isn't a bet.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:28 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:26 pm Maybe Hyena is scum.
Explain this one to me.

You put out a boatload of posts, enough for any scum to pick and choose and develop a case against a Civ.

Maybe Hyena is scum.

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:18 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:04 am This post is mainly for reference (mine if no one else’s):

With just a few minutes left, MP7 & Nute created a 4/4/4 split:

MR – DDL, speed, Hyena, Nook
Nook – LC, sig, 112, nutella
Sig – juliets, TSP, Jack, MP7

(To the best of my knowledge those votes are in chronological order too.)
Wait a sec. I forgot about Nook's wagon. Sig and 112 flipped town. If Nook is town, then at least one of Nute and LC are probably scum. Unless, somehow the wagon is pure?

Is that real logic?

Just realized I could have missed the lynch but didn't. Catching up on three pages. Sorry folks.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:01 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:05 pm I will shoot Sloonei if that's the consensus. He might be bad. He might have bowed back out due to the extra pressures of being bad. He might be Civ, and the secret votes will be unanimous. We can't let him get to Final 3 either way, right?
Shoot?

Responding to this:

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:53 pm Fair, do we have a solid list of who all is for the Sloonei shot and have any other names been suggested (other than me of course)?

I will shoot Sloonei if that's the consensus. He might be bad. He might have bowed back out due to the extra pressures of being bad. He might be Civ, and the secret votes will be unanimous. We can't let him get to Final 3 either way, right?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:55 pm LC yes that's why :P

OH I thought you meant higher suspicion for those than MP.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:49 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:46 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:38 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:26 pm @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME so my read of nutella this game is leaning scum.

The people she has read as scum include you, Jack, Hyena, 112 and DDL all of whom I disagree with. (I think she is reading everyone but me town right now but these were her past reads).

She has brought up things about me that are just part of my style and has been adamant those things make me scum. Part of me wants to say she's just mistaken but she hasn't wavered at all like she does when she's town. In fact, I haven't seen her wavering on anybody like her normal civ self though it usually happens at EOD in my experience and we've only had one of those.

Her responses to MR's death sounded overwrought, and that isn't normally what I see in town nutella. It's like she was overdoing it so people would believe she was not his partner.

She and I both did agree on Hyena's MP7 case so we haven't disagreed on everything. I only lean scum on her because I would really like to see some more behavior before writing her off completely.
I know it seems like I'm not wavering at this point, which I admit is unusual and feels weird. This has just been a weird game for me in how much I've mentally sorted people as town. But as you said yourself, I have changed my reads quite a lot this game. I have had multiple scumreads that didn't stick and I *have* waffled on them and I *have* changed my mind. Maybe not in the way I usually do, and yeah I'm sticking to my guns on you and not really waffling there but I have my reasons (which are partially POE from my townreads).

My response to MR's flip was really just me typing how I felt in the moment. It was stream of consciousness. I was stunned. Wasn't exaggerated.

I'm in a position right now where I realize why I look bad but all I can do is honestly say how I've felt in this game and I can't really defend more than that, it's just been weird. I would encourage you to look at the sheer volume of my posts and the extent to which I'm stream of consciousness posting and not holding anything back, and as MP has pointed out see how different that is from my recent scum games where I am much more restrained. I know I don't look like my usual town self here because of how my reads have evolved, but I implore you to see that I am also not even remotely within my scum meta. I know how that sounds, believe me I'm conscious of it, and I am starting to accept that it's fairly likely I get mislynched today but I won't go down without a fight and I want others to see through to my true motivations here.
Wow nutella, you may have convinced me. Step away from me for a minute and tell me who else is in your "maybe scum" pile. I have been defending so much I'm not doing well on reading baddies. Everyone seems so town. I'm half considering Hyena's idea of the Wilgy and Sloonei slots. I wish this double lynch had not come so early in the game, I'm having flashbacks as to how we screwed it up in GOC.

Omgosh a ton of linki.
Well other than Sloonei I have reasons to townread everyone else, but some of them are weaker than others. Tony probably the weakest, and MP. And I'm honestly starting to consider the possibility I'm wrong on Speed even though he was one of my strongest. If I were to reorder my list now I think LC, Hyena, Jack, and even Nanook might place higher than him at this point.

I really should look into Tony more though huh.

But Jack is mechanically cleared.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:01 pm I know I don't currently have much influence in this game for whatever reason, but regardless of the reasons on nutella, I... am not seeing it here. I just played that other game with her where she was scum, and perhaps it is recency bias combined with you all having a better handle on her scum range, but her ability to re-assess the way she does here is something she incredibly failed to fake in that baseball game. It reads like night and day.

Long Con, what do you think about this?

I dunno, most of the time I just take things at face value in the game they're in. I don't recall her level of ability to re-assess, and I don't really take that as a strong indicator of anything, because the organic flow of the game dictates that kind of thing more than a person's standard way of playing, or whatever.

I could try the juliets-Sloonei lynch.

Yeah, but that second tier from the bottom is really just laying lower than the main group.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:32 am To those of you still considering voting me, may I offer one other consideration.

I'm not even playing at anywhere remotely near 100% of my capacity, and I have almost 300 posts halfway-ish through Day 2. If that doesn't also suggest I'm town, then *shrug*.

One side of me says "he makes a good point". The other side says "I wish someone else had said it. This level of self-awareness only leads to the conclusion that he would be able to fake it."

I'll be honest, I feel like not voting you now. But Mafia isn't about feelings. I can distinctly recall you performing some very theatrical deceptions, so I know how far you can go to win the hearts and minds. With two lynches on the go (that was confirmed, right?), it's going to take a lot to find two players I suspect more than you.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:03 am I’ve got a death grip [on] this Juliets nullread.

You should definitely work on that.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:00 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:56 am Like unflipped associative reads aside, Juliets is null. I read those posts and they don’t even move my Juliets needle. They give you a confident scumread on her. That smells to me.

I think Hyena believes his MP read even if it’s wrong.

I’m inclined to think Nutella doesn’t believe her Juliets read.

In the event I find myself shaken by flips not going how I plan on them going, I lose confidence. So if I was in Nutella’s shoes and I did find those posts suspicious, I’d be like “Sooooo maybe Juliets is scum. Idk. It’s the best I’ve got” not “I am confident in my scumread of Juliets so I’m keeping all the townreads I have even though I just lost my shit over an incorrect townread.”

It doesn’t feel like an actual town mindset.

Supposing Nutella is scum with MP. MP comes charging in. Nutella gives out an easy townread and then pushes on one of the null quartet off flimsy shit. That may not be what we’re seeing but that scenario feels consistent with Nutella’s actions and mindset in a way her being town doesn’t.

Or she’s scum and MP isn’t and figures she isn’t getting the lynch, accepts her pocket and shifts elsewhere. Also not necessarily the case but consistent.
I don't know what to tell you. I believe in my scumread of juliets. It's an actual town mindset. Sorry.

Like, I was starting to suspect juliets before all this anyway. Even before MR's flip. It's not like I pulled this out of nowhere.

I've pulled cases out of nowhere, as a result of thinking about the game somewhere else, and developing conclusions that I bring back to the thread. But is that the accusation? That you pulled it out of nowhere? Does "opportunistic" play into that idea a little?

I liked your juliets case, nutella. And MP is doing a lot of Civvish legwork. I also like the angle Jack was putting forth.... I was thinking about it myself. Would nutella double down on the townread of her teammates, given that the first one blew up in her face?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:26 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:26 am I really think Jack deserves better for his claim.
Oh god fucking dammit I forgot already, I'm an idiot. Thank you, LC. I'll fix that.

I'm so awful at mechanics.

No prob, Bob!

I really think Jack deserves better for his claim.

It would be a different kind of move, but if "your teammate" Radishes was generally looking like the team's F3 possibility, you might say such nice things.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:09 am I am astounded at the in-thread agreement over voting me as the secret vote. Regardless of one's confidence in scum reads, and that's always a terrible use of the mechanic in my opinion.

We need in-thread agreement, or the baddies could take the secret vote.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:58 pm I remember! I thought Nanook was doing too much mechanical discussion rather than hunting.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:22 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:35 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:50 pm Okay then, it was not spew, or fake spew, or whatever. I saw two votes in the thread, and responded to those two. If I had included Nanook's vote, then it would have been labelled not fair, I guess.
Cool. I feel I was pulling teeth trying to get this answer out of you. I'm not removing my vote yet.
That's completely unfair to say. I didn't even understand your angle until a short time ago.

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:39 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:58 pm I wonder which over-discusser of 'spew' is the wolf?
Okay, I like where you're going with this. Give me a name.
At a glance:

1. sig
2. Nanook

[mention]juliets[/mention] here's an answer to your question about my suspecting Nanook. Of course, this classifies more as a gut suspicion than "take it to the bank".

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:58 pm Thanks for explaining, LC. I'll take a look, going to try to finish the catch-up quickly too.

*polite smile*

Just want to throw in that probably no one has a reason not to lynch Wilgy.

I remember! I thought Nanook was doing too much mechanical discussion rather than hunting.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:22 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:35 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:50 pm Okay then, it was not spew, or fake spew, or whatever. I saw two votes in the thread, and responded to those two. If I had included Nanook's vote, then it would have been labelled not fair, I guess.
Cool. I feel I was pulling teeth trying to get this answer out of you. I'm not removing my vote yet.
That's completely unfair to say. I didn't even understand your angle until a short time ago.

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:39 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:58 pm I wonder which over-discusser of 'spew' is the wolf?
Okay, I like where you're going with this. Give me a name.
At a glance:

1. sig
2. Nanook

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:55 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:53 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:50 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:20 pm I am liking these new lines of analysis. That sig vote looks a lot like a save.
What basis do you have for this conclusion?
My suspicion of Nanook surely plays a part, and the way the sig lynch came at the last minute, when Radishes was a contender, also fuels the idea. And the way you (also a suspect) pushed hard for the tie when Nanook's vote to self-preserve was an obvious fly in the ointment.
Hmmmm... alright. Why is Nanook suspicious again? Apologies if you've spoken to that elswhere.

No apology necessary. Juliets has commented on it a couple of times... I had a gut suspicion of Nanook, combined with some light evidence that I kind of forget right now.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:52 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:27 pm Doesn't look good for M Plus 7.
What purpose does this post serve? I see no solving here.

Commentary on someone else's hard work. It's easier than doing the work myself.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:50 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:20 pm I am liking these new lines of analysis. That sig vote looks a lot like a save.
What basis do you have for this conclusion?

My suspicion of Nanook surely plays a part, and the way the sig lynch came at the last minute, when Radishes was a contender, also fuels the idea. And the way you (also a suspect) pushed hard for the tie when Nanook's vote to self-preserve was an obvious fly in the ointment.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:47 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:45 pm Ehhh

Radishes stealing Jack’s power doesn’t, like, 100% lock jim town...but combined with it being a fairly useless scum power (and I have to believe scum have something useful since town has a day vig), I’m inclined to think he’s probably just town. Almost certainly not interested there until f3.
Yeah, basically this.

Radish would never target his teammate with a stealing power. It doesn't play out in any advantageous way.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:45 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:17 pm 112 suspected MP7:

Spoiler: show
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:30 pm MP7 random D1 feels reads whatever man

towncore
112
Hyena
juliets
nutella
speed

probably town
DDL
Tony

Upper POE
DrWilgy
Jack
LC
MR

Lower POE
Nanook
Poison Chan
sig

I think? Ordered across tiers but not within, by the way.

Maybe I do have more reads than I thought. I'm certainly wrong about something or multiple things or all of it, but whatever, I think this is what I got. Trusting my gut for now. Fuck tinfoil.

112 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:31 pm Nute could still be right about mplus but I honestly don't think anyone gets as angry as he did in a contest like this unless he's town.

That towncore post had an awful tone fwiw and it's what sparked this post.

Alright then.

I never kill 112 in our first game together anywhere, let alone on this site. I would have vehemently argued with my scum partners about this if I were scum, and very likely I would have gotten my way. Believe it or not, up to you.

And I'd never kill you N1 on your first game back from hiatus.

Tony and Hyena were the ones Radish pushed, so that probably gives them some town points.

MP, you gotta catch up to Hyena's case on you. You became suspect #1 for a bit, and the votes still linger.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:57 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:56 pm nutella, the MR-LC connection is a dead end. Trust me.
Eh?

You don't have to waste your time.

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