The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:09 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:04 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:02 am Good game LC and LoRab.

That comes across really sarcastically given the reality.

I promise I didn't intend it that way. The speedchuck case had me going!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:02 am Good game LC and LoRab.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:31 am another point against LC, civ LC would have too much pride to hint himself out of a sticky situation, but mafia LC would absolutely pull a fake hint gambit

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:26 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:24 am daughter hinting makes sense as a desperation gambit cus there's 3 of them and none of them know each other, so there's no one to counter

Yeah this + the point Jay just made (he'd cause Tevye to waste a check) = LC u lyyyyin

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:23 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:21 am I don't even know the issue here. We're not in lylo or mylo or whatever. Lynch me tomorrow if you're not satisfied.

This is the most bored plea I've ever seen.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:17 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:13 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:11 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:07 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:05 am the only civ way what he's saying is true is if he's Avram and...

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:40 am A message from Avram:
Kyle and Long Con seem like good places to start.

he's not Avram.

And neither are you. And yet, I promise that I can prove to at least one person that I'm Civ.

Now you are throwing out a hail Mary to draw out civilian powers you want gone.

I know that trick.

Be gone, Long Con.

I don't actually know that trick. I can't recall ever seeing that trick.

Nobody reveal your Civ powers.

lol

I definitely used that trick in my early lostpedia days and I'm 80% sure you were one of the people who called me out on it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:18 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:13 am I don't actually know that trick. I can't recall ever seeing that trick.

Nobody reveal your Civ powers.

What do you think of NVN if you make the following assumption:

He did not intend to actually claim information and instead worded his suspicion of you awkwardly because he isn't familiar with Syndicate jargon?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:11 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:07 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:05 am the only civ way what he's saying is true is if he's Avram and...

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:40 am A message from Avram:
Kyle and Long Con seem like good places to start.

he's not Avram.

And neither are you. And yet, I promise that I can prove to at least one person that I'm Civ.

Now you are throwing out a hail Mary to draw out civilian powers you want gone.

I know that trick.

Be gone, Long Con.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:05 am the only civ way what he's saying is true is if he's Avram and...

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:40 am A message from Avram:
Kyle and Long Con seem like good places to start.

he's not Avram.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:01 am I would also be willing to change my vote if you can change my mind/bring up a better alternative

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:58 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:49 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:41 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:29 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:26 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:18 am Can anyone make an argument for Kyle to be town?

yes :/

Of the players you've ISO'd so far, who do you think is the most likely partner of LoRab?

at this point, long con

Tellmemore.gif

I believe SD's defenses and don't find her pre lorab death posts all that suspicious either. I believe Jay is doing his best and I also have a role in mind for him.

the fact that neither of LC nor LR discussed each other while doing so and convincing us that the other player was more likely to be scum would have been their only chance at survival is troubling.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:55 am Long Con- do me a favor, will ya? And go find mafia.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:53 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:45 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:36 am why is "push Marmot" a viable scum strategy for Macdougall entering Day 3?

Attacking Marmot for lazy play, as if Marmot tends to be an overly-vocal, super-analytical player. Possibly ironic, because THAT looks like lazy play on Macdougall's part, going after Marmot for his extremely usual play.

I'm not sure this answers my question, so I'll rephrase: why does it make sense for macdougall, as scum, to pick Marmot of all people as his lynch target for the day?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:42 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:21 am I still can't get over the wrong tab issue.

Lorab had three votes. So did you, Long Con.

Lorab had voted for me. Then you voted for me, making it a temporary three-way tie.

At no point did I have more than two votes, so the "wrong tab I was only saving myself" sounds like horseshit to me.

Agreed.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:22 am If you meant to save yourself and that was all, you would have gone with Lorab from the beginning.

Agreed.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:36 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:32 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:25 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:19 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:15 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:14 am Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

GTH yes. I haven't been pinged by him. Lazy play, despite what Macdougall is saying, isn't much of a baddie tell for Marmot.

Can you tell me more about why Macdougall is scum? Is it based entirely on his recent treatment of the marmot?

Actually, it is based on the recent stuff. I'm having some trouble with the two concurrent games running, and getting mixed up between them. This is something that currently looks suspicious.

why is "push Marmot" a viable scum strategy for Macdougall entering Day 3?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:21 am I still can't get over the wrong tab issue.

Lorab had three votes. So did you, Long Con.

Lorab had voted for me. Then you voted for me, making it a temporary three-way tie.

At no point did I have more than two votes, so the "wrong tab I was only saving myself" sounds like horseshit to me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:25 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:19 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:15 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:14 am Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

GTH yes. I haven't been pinged by him. Lazy play, despite what Macdougall is saying, isn't much of a baddie tell for Marmot.

Can you tell me more about why Macdougall is scum? Is it based entirely on his recent treatment of the marmot?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:15 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:14 am Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:48 am

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:40 am A message from Avram:
LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other.

That isn't accurate. I never wanted to push for Epignosis, I voted him for maybe two minutes when I thought it was the best chance to save my life. I had said nothing about Lorab because she hadn't really gotten involved with the game that much, it wasn't some kind of teammate-avoidance strategy.

who should we lynch today?

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:40 am A message from Avram:
LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:59 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:58 pm i never done

ah fuck

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:47 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:46 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:32 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:28 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:44 pm You mentioned you have a mafia read on me because I appear to be playing a different game to everyone else. Does that mean you have a Mafia read on yourself given the lion's share of everyone else have a civ read of me?

Can you walk me through why I would make that jump in logic?

I thought it was obvious that I was having a go at you for being a hypocrite.

I was picking up what you're laying down.

Except for the part where it doesn't really matter to me what "everyone else" has to say about you. I never particularly cared for general consensus.

So we agree you are scum reading me for something you are exhibiting in this game? That is to say that you find your own behaviour scummy?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:05 amLong Con, you said this was a mishap caused by an old poll? I don't know exactly what you mean by that. Please expand.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:39 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:19 pmwhat I do not like, as noted elsewhere, is that he used the exact same reasoning for suspecting Speedchuck as LoRab.

can you explain this? I didn't suspect lorab

wait nevermind I get it. You mean that lorab had the same reason for suspecting Speedchuck as I did.

I took interest in LC's Speedchuck case because it related to things that happened surrounding me specifically and because it validated my viewpoint that mafia might be eager to use Jay's thing to their advantage without hitching their wagons to it too hard. Speedchuck fit that profile.

Ftr I no longer think that. I think speed looks good due to lorabs' pursuit, I want to do a full lorab iso at some point, but her pursuit of him seems a little too hot for distancing.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:09 am Kyle's inebriation is mild point in his favor for me. He had to fight and claw his way to coherently express his desire to choose a side. drunk mafia kyle could have just thrown a vote and laughed like a rotten child on an anthill.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:05 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:04 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:04 am Voting Lorab to save myself.

You voted me first.

Yeah, I had an old poll up. Sorry.

Well, I voted for you and got stuck there. I didn't really want to.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:04 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:04 am Voting Lorab to save myself.

You voted me first.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:55 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:52 am What do you expect me to do about it? What success do I ever have with it, ever? What makes you think I was remotely interested in diving into that crap? I was absolutely avoiding it as much as possible.

At the very least I'd expect to know in clearer terms how you read the two players involved.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:52 am This sounds like, because I didn't OMGUS, I'm bad.

In a way you did OMGUS -- you told her she was inventing her accusation, which is itself an accusation. You didn't pursue that at all though, and in that exchange your role was purely responsive. I'm not telling you that you were supposed to suspect her, I'm telling you that you were supposed to give a damn about the motives of your own accuser. I saw no evidence that you did.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 am I don't think it's prudent with limited time remaining to compile a huge, thorough LC ISO -- I'm not even sure I can finish it in time. Cliff notes:

~ Epignosis and I were fiercely antagonistic with each other for nearly all of Day 1. We ate up a lot of thread content with that combat, and left all other observers scratching their heads trying to parse apart the motives. If there's anyone alive who should keenly understand what scenario and be able to provide insight on it, it's the other guy who has so frequently found himself in the same position against Epignosis.

What insight did he provide? Fuck all. He made a few isolated comments about it, but never anything of substance. To check yourself, click here and CTRL+F for Epi or 3J/Jay/JJJ

~ FZ. gave him crap for "asking clarification questions". LC's immediate response was to accuse her of inventing that notion. I don't see many avenues for that to be a neutral or better comment from LC to FZ -- it's a suspicion. This turned into a somewhat hostile exchange, and LC continues to assert that FZ is making shit up, or at least "making unfounded claims", and challenges her for proof. At no point does LC voice a clear read on FZ in light of this debate -- his commentary carries discrediting weight but does not probe his accuser to learn more about her (trendy new accusation ). This smells of CFTWR (caught for the wrong reasons).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:44 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:42 am Jay, I like your thoughts on LC. I'll vote for him. If you're wrong I'll lynch you next.

The fuck?

You like my thoughts and if they're wrong I'm dead? Your vote is your responsibility, not mine. "Disgusting"

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:41 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 am I don't think it's prudent with limited time remaining to compile a huge, thorough LC ISO -- I'm not even sure I can finish it in time. Cliff notes:

~ Epignosis and I were fiercely antagonistic with each other for nearly all of Day 1. We ate up a lot of thread content with that combat, and left all other observers scratching their heads trying to parse apart the motives. If there's anyone alive who should keenly understand what scenario and be able to provide insight on it, it's the other guy who has so frequently found himself in the same position against Epignosis.

What insight did he provide? Fuck all. He made a few isolated comments about it, but never anything of substance. To check yourself, click here and CTRL+F for Epi or 3J/Jay/JJJ

~ FZ. gave him crap for "asking clarification questions". LC's immediate response was to accuse her of inventing that notion. I don't see many avenues for that to be a neutral or better comment from LC to FZ -- it's a suspicion. This turned into a somewhat hostile exchange, and LC continues to assert that FZ is making shit up, or at least "making unfounded claims", and challenges her for proof. At no point does LC voice a clear read on FZ in light of this debate -- his commentary carries discrediting weight but does not probe his accuser to learn more about her (trendy new accusation ). This smells of CFTWR (caught for the wrong reasons).

1. He said that this was Civ Epi, per usual. I'm not sure what else you were looking for. I think, by saying this, he implied a Civ!you as well.
2. This is exactly how he responds when Epi brings the same kind of suspicions against him, though he usually does go after Epi in response. If it is CFTWR, then that would explain why LC is hesitant to 'OMGUS' or whatever you want to call it.

I see your points, but they're not as damning as I'd like.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:09 pm If I rolled my eyes any harder at that TMI suggestion, I'd get a strike in a miniature eye bowling alley

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:28 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:15 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:04 pm A. I stated both that you are asking for clarifications and that you are explaining other people. Go read. I need to prove something that you don't do? How can I do that if you don't do it? It's not there...

Ok, look at it from my perspective. I'm Civ, I'm trying to understand Epi's case on you. I ask what he means by hedging. You accuse me of being bad because I don't ask people to clarify themselves when I'm Civ. To me, this sounds like a real bullshit reason to suspect me, because I ask people to clarify themselves when I need clarification. It's not based on my alignment. If all I had been doing all game was asking clarification questions, then ok, that's a little unusual. But you're calling me out here for ONE QUESTION. Sometimes I need clarification, and it's not because I'm playing it off my alignment.

I'm not delving into a big LC ISO because of your weak accusation. I don't have the time. I've spent hours today already just getting caught up in MK and playing here. Not happening.

B. I was agreeing with JJJ that he may be bad. He felt ungenuine at the time, and I could see him trying to take him out via lynch because he's too proud to NK him, like JJJ suggested.

That's equally vague as your original statement Epi quoted. You haven't clarified anything. Maybe an actual quote from Epi that you found particularly ungenuine would at least be a start.

Another example for what I don't expect civvie LC to say: "Look at it from my perspective".
I'm sorry, I just think civvie LC wouldn't be so civilized about something he thought was bullshit.
Am I the only one who thinks this is not LC's MO when a civ. It just feels completely off. Don't delve into a big ISO. Like I said, I'm a tone person. It's what I'm feeling from you. At the moment, you're not helping me feel better about you. It's not like I'm asking you to start being rude from now on, but it seems like you care about how you're viewed more than you usually do.

As for the quote you want,I think there were several, because there was a back and forth between JJJ and Epi. I will have to leave soon so I'm not sure I want to waste so much time on it, even more so, because I don't believe in him being bad any more. If that's what will make people decide between voting for me or not, I'll make the effort. If not, i think it's a waste of time

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:04 pm A. I stated both that you are asking for clarifications and that you are explaining other people. Go read. I need to prove something that you don't do? How can I do that if you don't do it? It's not there...

B. I was agreeing with JJJ that he may be bad. He felt ungenuine at the time, and I could see him trying to take him out via lynch because he's too proud to NK him, like JJJ suggested.

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:49 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:38 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:24 pm Damn, just wrote a post and it got deleted.
First, I find it almost impossible to catch up, so please bare with me. I'm really busy, and probably shouldn't have come back from the break, but that's what I did, and I'm trying to keep up.

I skimmed and read on and off, and I'm still a couple of pages behind, but here are a few of my impressions since I last left after my vote for Epi.

First, I really can't decide regarding Kyle. On the one hand, there's my first impression which made me seriously pinged. But there are posts where the tone feels very genuine to me, and he seems like he's upset from a civvie point of view. On the other hand, I value Sloonei's opinion, and although I've played only very few games with him, I think he's a very methodical player, and often gets the job done. He feels a little obsessed about Kyle, but it feels real to me. Not sure I agree, but it's something to think about.

I think I've changed my mind regarding Epi. I'm glad people didn't follow, and that he didn't end up getting lynched. His posts after I left felt much more like what I expect from civvie Epi.

Still feel very good about JJJ. I've seen nothing from him that makes me think he's bad.
Same goes for Sloonei. I actually like that he's asking people not to catch up. I do that sometimes as well, because the best way to catch a mafia is to interact with them live, so it makes me feel good about him.
Still, Sloonei, I have to say, that when I don't catch up I feel like I have no idea what's going on, so I guess it has to be a mixture.

Mac is a question mark. At some points he feels like the person I trust the most, but then I'm reminded a game I've played with him (can't remember
which), where he was bad and got everyone to trust him. So I'm keeping this at the back of my mind, just to remind me never to fully trust him. For now, he's high on my trusted list.

LC is one of my new top suspects. His game style feels like something I've seen lots of mafia do. He's asking clarification questions. It's something LC doesn't normally do.

That is not a true statement. You are inventing that about me.

For example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:39 pm
When you speak of hedging... is that like a general wishy-washiness, leaving both sides open, kind of thing?

Here is another example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:23 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi

I feel like this all could have been yellow, from the start. "Things can change" "At the moment"... are those not equally hedgey? FZ. certainly is laying down some tentative stuff here, it's important for her to make it clear she's not committing.

But you ask what she's agreeing with - I read it as she's agreeing with Jay that your posts aren't genuine. You criticize the way she doesn't go into specifics, which is reasonable... FZ., would you like to clarify?

The blue part is some classic Epi bizarro-logic to me. She said you are acting like you're going after what you believe. That doesn't imply that you genuinely believe... those beliefs. Just that you are bad and putting on an act as though you genuinely hold the beliefs. Contrasted to her projected Civ Epi, who is unlikely to commit strongly to those beliefs at all.

And the red part... a false dichotomy. "the product of me drawing a mafia role" and "a product of what I believed other people would say about me" are the same side of the same coin.

It is because you drew a mafia role that you chose to analyze what you believed other people would say about you.

First of all, he's sort of defending/explaining me. Civvie LC doesn't do that.

How is this "first of all" when it follows your previous points? Never mind.

"Civvie LC doesn't do that" is the second time this post that you are making something up about me.

He let's people defend themselves or explain themselves. Again, he's asking for clarifications, which I don't remember him doing.
He's acting too nice, I can't explain it, but all his recent posts ping me like crazy.

Instead of criticizing that I agree with Epi that your comments about him and JJJ need clarifying, why don't you just clarify them?

Saying I'm making things up doesn't make it true. Prove that I'm making things up. Do you find yourself explaining other people often? I don't remember you ever doing that. Sorry if I'm wrong, but that's the truth. You let people brew in their own juice.
Give an example where you acted liked this as a civvie.

As for what I need to clear up, I'm not even sure what I'm being accused of, but I've stated why I accused Epi, and the part where I leave the options open for me to choose where to go later, is just me being unsure of things and stating where I'm at. Would people rather I don't speak at all until I'm sure about something? I will barely be posting...

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:47 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:41 pm @linki: What's LMS?

Last Man Standing (a style of game without traditional teams). I was making a joke in reference to a recent game where LC faked thinking the game was LMS when it wasn't.

FZ. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:24 pm Damn, just wrote a post and it got deleted.
First, I find it almost impossible to catch up, so please bare with me. I'm really busy, and probably shouldn't have come back from the break, but that's what I did, and I'm trying to keep up.

I skimmed and read on and off, and I'm still a couple of pages behind, but here are a few of my impressions since I last left after my vote for Epi.

First, I really can't decide regarding Kyle. On the one hand, there's my first impression which made me seriously pinged. But there are posts where the tone feels very genuine to me, and he seems like he's upset from a civvie point of view. On the other hand, I value Sloonei's opinion, and although I've played only very few games with him, I think he's a very methodical player, and often gets the job done. He feels a little obsessed about Kyle, but it feels real to me. Not sure I agree, but it's something to think about.

I think I've changed my mind regarding Epi. I'm glad people didn't follow, and that he didn't end up getting lynched. His posts after I left felt much more like what I expect from civvie Epi.

Still feel very good about JJJ. I've seen nothing from him that makes me think he's bad.
Same goes for Sloonei. I actually like that he's asking people not to catch up. I do that sometimes as well, because the best way to catch a mafia is to interact with them live, so it makes me feel good about him.
Still, Sloonei, I have to say, that when I don't catch up I feel like I have no idea what's going on, so I guess it has to be a mixture.

Mac is a question mark. At some points he feels like the person I trust the most, but then I'm reminded a game I've played with him (can't remember
which), where he was bad and got everyone to trust him. So I'm keeping this at the back of my mind, just to remind me never to fully trust him. For now, he's high on my trusted list.

LC is one of my new top suspects. His game style feels like something I've seen lots of mafia do. He's asking clarification questions. It's something LC doesn't normally do.

For example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:39 pm
When you speak of hedging... is that like a general wishy-washiness, leaving both sides open, kind of thing?

Here is another example:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:23 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi

I feel like this all could have been yellow, from the start. "Things can change" "At the moment"... are those not equally hedgey? FZ. certainly is laying down some tentative stuff here, it's important for her to make it clear she's not committing.

But you ask what she's agreeing with - I read it as she's agreeing with Jay that your posts aren't genuine. You criticize the way she doesn't go into specifics, which is reasonable... FZ., would you like to clarify?

The blue part is some classic Epi bizarro-logic to me. She said you are acting like you're going after what you believe. That doesn't imply that you genuinely believe... those beliefs. Just that you are bad and putting on an act as though you genuinely hold the beliefs. Contrasted to her projected Civ Epi, who is unlikely to commit strongly to those beliefs at all.

And the red part... a false dichotomy. "the product of me drawing a mafia role" and "a product of what I believed other people would say about me" are the same side of the same coin.

It is because you drew a mafia role that you chose to analyze what you believed other people would say about you.

First of all, he's sort of defending/explaining me. Civvie LC doesn't do that.

He let's people defend themselves or explain themselves. Again, he's asking for clarifications, which I don't remember him doing.
He's acting too nice, I can't explain it, but all his recent posts ping me like crazy.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:02 pm We had no nightkill last night, but nobody is talking about things that might have caused that. I have trouble identifying a clear-cut consensus town read, so a doctor save on Night 1 would be incredible but not impossible. What other roles are there that could have stopped a kill from going through?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:31 pm Does the post make you believe FZ. is a civilian?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:32 pm So, first of all, FZ.

I want to talk about this post.

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:56 pm Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.

Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

"I find myself" is a hedge phrase. Moreover, with what exactly does FZ. agree? Instead of being specific, she says something there feels not genuine. What is this something? This statement baffles me. Not because of whether it's a correct perception or not, but because of what she accuses me of doing now: Acting like I'm going full force after what I believe. If I am bad, then I don't truly believe in what I'm saying. In FZ.'s mind, how can I be bad if I'm going full force after what I (genuinely) believe? This sentence is supposed to buttress FZ.'s previous commentary about me, but it weakens it: Was my perceived bluntness (i.e., going full-force after what I believe) the product of me drawing a mafia role, which is what the blue statement implies, or was it a product of what I believed other people would say about me?

And this is where FZ. gives herself the luxury of voting Kylemii or defending Kylemii- whichever suits her purpose.

There's so much hedge in this post, I could block the neighbors' view of the roof.

I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi