The Syndicate

Ok done, closing this tab, don't wanna see it.

Really disappointing that Spacedaisy didn't even bother to show up in the final day of the game.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:53 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:35 pm Well, this is disappointing. This rivals Nanook's slanking achievement in Beans Mafia, but that was much more enjoyable because I was Mafia with him.
I mean...

Well, this is disappointing. This rivals Nanook's slanking achievement in Beans Mafia, but that was much more enjoyable because I was Mafia with him.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:27 pm Who cares if it's vague as long as it's right.

Well, I do, and I assume Daisy does. Your answer was subjective and unprovable. And I get why.

Spacedaisy, does this ^ not sound at all like a generic and vague answer to you? This is the Wolf, he's right in front of you. I don't know how to make you see this. Please analyze again.

Daisy, I don't really know what I can say to make you change your mind. How do you PROVE you're Town? I feel like I've always been the one who doesn't quite make it to the towncore for one reason or another. Often, I think it was because I didn't come out of the gates at the start with a bunch of townreads and scumreads, so I looked too cagey. Maybe it's just my name and avatar for some people, which is fair. I can't really identify the why of it most of the time, and it felt like being the kid who never got picked first or something. So, I've been trying to up my game, be more analytical, dive deeper into players acting how they do, and also to be more open about my own suspicions or townreads.

This game was one of the first where I have actually gotten it, I'm not sure what essence I struck, but if I can emulate it when I'm bad, I'll enjoy it. People could tell I was town all game, I couldn't believe when I saw player after player listing me in the townreads, it's a strange feeling to me. Felt good. So in that regard, I already kind of feel like this is a win for me. Unfortunately, personal wins don't track onto the Museum of Mafioso.

If you want to look at what is arguably one of my towniest games ever, and compare it to Lime Coke's "wait what's going on?" schtick (and he's laying it on thick today for the coup de gras), then I don't have any words right now that will change your mind. Still have another day though, so maybe I'll think of the right words. But how many ways can you say the truth? Despite the fact that I tried hard this game, the Town will still lose.

It would be better if you would reconsider. "Long Con should be dead by now" isn't the greatest reason to throw a game away when we're so close, it's incredibly assumptive about how other peoples;' minds work, it's reductive, and come on, someone was always going to be alive at this point. Why can't it be me this time?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:10 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:39 am Argh, I hate Brad's tone. It's so meek and lacks any urgency.

I feel like this is a gut or logic situation.
The best I can do is 1. Hopefully figure out which one is mafia and if I'm right 2. Try to convince you to stay on LC and that I'm town.

Hopefully 1 is happened and I can just focus on 2 if you have more questions I'd answer them.

Where were you yesterday?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:51 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:49 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:47 pm Come on, Long Con. If Lime Coke is bad, all he had to do was kill you. SVS was not about to be convinced to move her vote off of me. She was all in on trusting him. Lime Coke would have had an easy ride to victory.
Not the way you've been solving this endgame. I highly doubt her faith in his townness would have trumped that. I'm alive so you can vote for me.
But up until right now, I have had a pretty big suspicion of Lime Coke. Why would he keep someone who suspected him in (you) over someone who trusted him (SVS) when the other person still in also suspected him?

Because we both could be voted out today. S~V~S could never have been voted out today, because she led the charge on Roxy. She literally had to go. This should not be a surprise.

Please, just look at their ISOs how they treated each other all game.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:47 pm Come on, Long Con. If Lime Coke is bad, all he had to do was kill you. SVS was not about to be convinced to move her vote off of me. She was all in on trusting him. Lime Coke would have had an easy ride to victory.

Not the way you've been solving this endgame. I highly doubt her faith in his townness would have trumped that. I'm alive so you can vote for me.

I already made my case on Roxy/Lime.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:42 pm If Lime Coke is bad, he would have killed you and left SVS alive because she was in his pocket. If SVS was bad, she would have killed you and easily swung Lime Coke onto me. But if you are bad, you would have to kill SVS because she trusted both of you and she would have to re-evaluate her world view.

Lime Coke is bad. S~V~S was the most obvious Town because she was the Roxy vote initiator, there's no way she was getting voted today.

Please don't throw this away, Daisy. Lime Coke is the partner. [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

I can't believe they didn't even show up though.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:55 pm Man, I really hope you haven’t fooled me lol

I thought this was the safe vote just in case I was bad?

I don't think I fooled you into it. And anyways, I am civ.

Ok, let's go with that, I'm not splitting it. [VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:45 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:38 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:36 pm Will both have votes on them, sorry. Thyroid brain makes me fuck up function words.
Wait ,could you start that thought again? Who would both have votes on them?
I cant, i think i wasn’t considering everything and I’m just confusing myself, lol. Just disregard it.

Let say SVS and both of us are good…

You’re right about the tie. That would be a crap way to end.

Let’s say SVS is bad, voting Roxy loses the game for us.

I think this comes down to what we believe about each other.

LOL, well... that's Mafia, right? I do think the Wolves have to be two of the three of them. I know I'm Town, and I don't believe you are the Wolf given your efforts today.

If S~V~S is bad and we vote Roxy, then we lose. If S~V~S is good and we vote Roxy, we... live. And we do this again tomorrow.

If S~V~S is bad, and we vote Lime, then we're voting for her teammate. If S~V~S is good and we vote Lime, we're voting for Roxy's teammate.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:36 pm Will both have votes on them, sorry. Thyroid brain makes me fuck up function words.

Wait ,could you start that thought again? Who would both have votes on them?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:35 pm Mmm, it depends on if you are good or bad.

If SVS is good and she voted Roxy and she is also good, leaving you and Lime Coke as bad, then civs are toast.

If you are good, we’re ok either way because the wolves will not have votes on them.

Also, they could be waiting for a last-second vote surprise attack. If we both vote for S~V~S or Lime, then we run the risk of letting them tie it up. Which is a 50/50 shot of us winning or losing. If we both vote Roxy, we stay in control.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:31 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:08 pm Is she even going to come back to vote? Is Lime??
I’m really hoping so because if they aren’t I think I’m in a bad spot and probably one of you or SVS is bad.

I am not bad.

Oh nm I get it

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:29 pm If she’s civ and we vote Lime Coke, we’re toast.

If S~V~S is civ, and we are civ, then Lime Coke is bad. How is that toast?

If it's Roxy, most likely teammate is Lime Coke. If it's S~V~S, the most likely teammate is Lime Coke. He's the common denominator, should we just vote him?

Roxy never really tried to push for an S~V~S vote. In my mind she had been making a case on S~V~S, but she was answering S~V~S' question.

She did end the big post with a bit of a cliffhanger, so I don't know if she had some text written that got deleted, or what. She didn't vote though. I was thinking that it made sense for her to make a case on S~V~S in the Lime/Roxy world, and reference my own posts against S~V~S to tug my heartstrings, and everything goes according to plan.

But if Roxy left S~V~S alive in order for her to be a target today... she didn't follow through with that plan. Is she even going to come back to vote? Is Lime??

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:29 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:22 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:20 pm I also find Roxy’s case on SVS a little weird. She picked where SVS said “I think” and then basically was using what she believed to be meta on me and compared it to where SVS suspected Long Con because of essentially giving reasoning for my actions. I get why she asked you those questions. I would have aligned me and you as wolf teammates based on that. We aren’t wolf teammates though, but it is an understandable suspicion so it’s weird that was what Roxy zeroed in on.
I didn't think that was the point of that interaction, but maybe I'm thinking of a different part. I thought she was calling out S~V~S for accusing me of claiming to know your mind, while at the same time saying she knew your mind. No?
Yeah, SVS was calling you out for that, but Roxy was saying she thought it was weird that SVS called you out for that while doing it herself. What she was referring to was not SVS “reading my mind.” It was SVS thinking it would be out of character of me.

Yeah... it's not strong, but it's too malleable to be able to decide on a hardline right or wrong, or to say it better, it's a matter of perspective. That's why I said it was too "in the weeds", I'm not putting a game on the line based on deciding what someone's perspective on someone else's argument about how someone else was treating someone else.

The thing is, I have suspected S~V~S more than Roxy all game, and she could be voting first to take advantage of our imperative to not split the vote. I don't know if she'd be bold enough to pull a move like that, but on the flip side, I don't know if she'd cast a game deciding vote like that as Town.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:31 pm Basically, Roxy’s case seems like a stretch to me. SVS had a decent case on you. Im not saying you’re bad. Im saying Roxy’s case is incredibly weak and a weird thing to latch onto.

To be fair, it was equally weak for S~V~S to accuse me of claiming to know your mind, when what I did was take the perspective of someone who sees the poll and chooses to make that vote. I don't think I really pursued that on her because it's too... in the weeds, or something.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:28 pm Yeah good point. like I said, Lime Coke is the most likely SVS teammate if she is bad. Also voting first is a good look for her, though it doesn’t mean as much in a game where votes can be moved and there is no hammer.

I looked at their ISOs, and Lime Coke is as believable a teammate with S~V~S as he is with Roxy. If it is Roxy/Lime, then that explains why I'm alive to go after S~V~S.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:22 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:15 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:08 pm Who do you think would be the most likely SVS teammate?
Lime Coke is what would be the most obvious answer. You me and Roxy have been suspicious of her and she is dismissing Lime Coke as bad on basically vibes.
But, maybe Roxy is distancing? But she’s been on basically just SVS all along.

S~V~S voting Roxy at this point would be quite the distancing act. I don't know if I buy S~V~S/Roxy.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:20 pm I also find Roxy’s case on SVS a little weird. She picked where SVS said “I think” and then basically was using what she believed to be meta on me and compared it to where SVS suspected Long Con because of essentially giving reasoning for my actions. I get why she asked you those questions. I would have aligned me and you as wolf teammates based on that. We aren’t wolf teammates though, but it is an understandable suspicion so it’s weird that was what Roxy zeroed in on.

I didn't think that was the point of that interaction, but maybe I'm thinking of a different part. I thought she was calling out S~V~S for accusing me of claiming to know your mind, while at the same time saying she knew your mind. No?

Who do you think would be the most likely SVS teammate?

S~V~S and Lime Coke, Wolf teammates?

I looked through S~V~S' ISO, and her opinion on Lime Coke has been "he's not playing like X game where he was bad, so he's in my Town list". That's pretty much it for interaction and discussion around Lime Coke.

She does get called out for going hard at Daisy for her Day 1 vote, but having no issues with Lime's very similar vote, which she explains by saying the votes were nothing alike, and Lime had some posts leading up to his vote so he's okay.

Lime Coke doesn't mention S~V~S much. He gives an unexplained townread to her, and is happy to agree with Michelle when she brings S~V~S up as possible Town.

Sorry I didn't do a bunch of quotes this time, but you can scan ISOs and see if you agree.

Lime Coke and S~V~S are definitely compatible as a Wolf team.

@Lime Coke What wheels were turning for you, and where did they roll you to?

Okay.

Lime Coke and Roxy as a Wolf team?

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:43 am whois brad - can we please use their online name to make it easy for an old woman?

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:29 am It will eventually sink in (brad= Limey) it just hasn't yet

^^ Roxy's first two mentions of Lime. If I'm being negative, then this is early "silly old me" distancing from a Wolf partner. Maybe she knew who he was and said this in fakery.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:07 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:20 pm Okay tried fully catching up but I saw Wilgy posting more paragraphs and I got bored and started posting.

Hello everyone.

^^Pretty nothing interaction. Maybe she would do a little more for a teammate?

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:48 am @Lime Coke - I do not think I have seen your town game. If I have it's been a minute but I do feel like you are trying to get into the game unlike last game where your posting was minimal as well as you making your thought process clear. I want to give you a chance this game but I will be watching.

^^ Pretty softball treatment of him in the Addressing the Class post.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:31 am Limey also feels like a town I agree

^^ Here she gives him a townread in agreement with S~V~S,

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:31 am Limey also feels like a town I agree

^^ Here she gives him a townread in agreement with S~V~S. This was four RL days after she said she's giving him a chance. What did Lime do do deserve this townread?

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:39 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:49 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:46 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:45 am Okay night kills are throwing me off slightly.
Why?
Didn't think Epi was widely townread to the point of like you or I where we're not receiving any votes.
but he *is* an awesome player so people hedging on him is not anything new imo. Is this all?

^^ Another softball interaction

That's pretty much it until some mentions of his name in today's posts.

Lime Coke originally has Roxy in a list of players he'd vote for, but soon decides she's Town:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:11 am Roxy iso I'm mixed on... feeling like her trying to understand reasoning on votes is a pretty good look though, analysis seems fine but something about it is messing with me, but that might be style difference.

So won't be voting today.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:13 am Dammit Syn I was doing a monologue.

After the Roxy iso I was gonna go into a speech about standards and practices.

[Roxy posts Addressing the Class]

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:53 am Okay yeah Roxy town.

And yes it's probably been a long while since you've seen my town game. Wheels are finally turning for me this game.

So... they're pretty compatible as a Wolf team. I'm going to look at the other combination interactions, but I'm not doing them all back-to-back. Too tedious

Anyway, I am hosting D&D tonight from 6-9pm EST (so in under four hours). I do have some prep work still to do, and I have to shift gears now. So I'll be back here in 8 hours for sure, and maybe I'll peek in once or twice before 6.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:00 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:02 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:25 pm I'm not quite sure where the vote stands but I think my vote will make a tie.

LongC case on SVS has me willing to look more closely in her direction

I did wonder about Daisy with that vote but her explanation vibed with me as I have done similar since threads are locked down now

But I'm going with my gut and voting Syn
I asked Daisy this, and I'm going to ask you.

Can you point out to me the specific parts you especially like about his case?

What I mean when I ask this (and I am going to ask @Spacedaisy this too) is to tell me *specifically* which points he made that you find so convincing. Not a general thing, but specifics, please. Becasue I really want to know.

Here it is. I spoilered the first part which is moreso about Wilgys yeet than about what a fucking menace I am. But I left it there.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:18 pm
Spoiler: show
Syn wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:27 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:16 am
Syn wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:54 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:48 am

What's the difference between Wilgy town and Wilgy wolf?
I know this is the current modus operandi of mafia on MU and TS, where everything boils down to claims that we know the differences between someone being town and wolf because people are reliably consistent and they only ever do x as town and y as wolf, but I should inform you and probably everyone else that I'm not going to engage in an argument about meta, because it's not reliable, it's rarely true, and people hide in it all the time

wilgy is a wolf because he's establishing an agenda/worldview that everyone else is now rotating around. he's set the terms and conditions for everyone else's casing, their arguments. he's set it up so that there's uncontested wolf-claims against people who are just outright afk, and then set up easy mischops for later days by picking holes in every little thing someone says with posts that pretend at reason, both of which will be looked at by others as Villager Effort and as a reason to wolf-read the people he nitpicked
Now that you know it's Wilgy town, and you can reverse the polarity on this negative read, what do you think of Wilgy's 'worldview/agenda'?
it's still not great tbh. him being town and also pushing that world/approach confuses me, unless he had some kind of plan to switcheroo in the following days

of course, him picking holes in every little thing someone says, as a villager, would be useful now/later
Ok. I get this view on Wilgy's posts, and I didn't disagree. It wasn't the reason I voted for him, but more like "if he's bad, this is not a trap we want to fall into". I voted for him because of his weird self-contradiction about sig, and I still don't understand how he came up with that stuff honestly. Point is, there was more than one valid reason to suspect him.
That's why an exchange like the following one, where they're discussing Wilgy's yeet, is a huge stretch:

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:25 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:36 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:58 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:05 am That's egregious
I know, right?
Even I knew Wilgy was town and I read like 3 pages
He was the person most actively solving.

Not liking someone’s philosophy of how mafia should be played doesn’t make them bad .

If Daisy had time to read enough to change from her null-ish stance on Wilgy to voting him out, then she had time to post her vote at the very least.

I could also vote for sig again tbh.
Let's put aside the level of gall it takes to not play, not even vote, and then come in and berate us for voting a guy with more than one strike against him. Here's the thing: hindsight is 20/20. Yup, Wilgy was obviously town... as of the point his role was revealed. Let's not act like we haven't seen Wolf Wilgy absolutely snow everyone into believing he's obvious town, including all three of you.

We've got Michelle, S~V~S, and Abi all wringing their hands and lamenting how this could have happened, and I'll be shocked if there is not a Wolf in that group.

Michelle is sticking to a loose WIFOM against Syn and sig based on their suspicion of her and Wilgy, and she once again poured on the extra "but Wilgy was so obvious town" to try and bolster the suspicion, which I don't like. So, continuing her Day 1 stance. @Michelle voted for Abi and came close to getting her eliminated yesterday, but today it's friendly talk and softball questions. What is your real stance on her? You are not treating her like someone you suspect today. Actually, what's your opinion on Roxy, you said you won't let her down, does that mean that you think she's Town?

Abi is just...

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:17 am Bad news I'm never gonna be found. Really should've solved me D1
Abi, I enjoy playing with you when you're here, but it's time to make some hard choices, and I think it goes like this: a) get WIM, get playing, b) get replaced, c) get yeeted. There's no shame in choosing option b) if that's what it takes, but your personal forecast there is frustrating.

S~V~S is my top choice of the three as wolf. She voted off the Wilgy wagon:

sig 3 Voters: falcon45ca, S~V~S, DrWilgy

... along with two confirmed Town. She came in here today ready to berate Wilgy voters, and dive right on to the Lowest Hanging Fruit, Spacedaisy, for her stealth Wilgy vote. Lime Coke made the exact same vote, and you haven't even questioned him about it, even though when Daisy did it, it's damning. I get that voting without posting is not ever a good look, but is that good evidence of a wolf? You acknowledged that it's not the greatest move for a Wolf to make, but then decided you still believe it.

And... I just plain don't believe this: "I reread Wilgy to see if there was anything that could have changed her mind from "meh" to voting him, and I couldn't find it." So, you're saying you attempted reread Wilgy's progression through Day 1 from Daisy's perspective somehow to find the point where she most likely decided she suspects him?

Yeah right. There's no way you did that, you're posting fake busywork to look towny. Why would you even bother doing that, we have two days and the answer you're looking for will almost certainly come to light unless Daisy has simply abandoned the game.

[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine

Also, @Long Con , I noticed this part of the above while rereading :

And... I just plain don't believe this: "I reread Wilgy to see if there was anything that could have changed her mind from "meh" to voting him, and I couldn't find it." So, you're saying you attempted reread Wilgy's progression through Day 1 from Daisy's perspective somehow to find the point where she most likely decided she suspects him?
This confuses me a bit. I don't recall saying anything like that, I said I reread DAISY, not Wilgy. If I implied that somewhere, I'm sorry it wasn't my intention. Reading someone I think is town trying to see why others suspect them is futile, unless you know that person super super well. I know Daisy fairly well, but not enough for that to even be a think i would try to do.

I know at times my wording can be obscure, I run on, etc. I spend alot of time explaining what I *really* meant, both here and irl lol. But Could you point out to me where I said this? Becasue i definitely did not reread Wilgy to see why Daisy voted for him, and am perplexes as to why I would say I did.

No problemo.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:22 am...much of it somewhat esoteric disagreements about mafia philosophy. Nothing that Wilgy has not said before in other games, and I think Daisy knows his game better than most. I reread Wilgy to see if there was anything that could have changed her mind from "meh" to voting him, and I couldn't find it.

I snipped this out of a larger quote, click the link for the whole thing. Maybe you did mean to write "Daisy" and not "Wilgy" at the last sentence - it's unclear because you refer to both "her" and "him" later in the sentence, so either name could fit comfortably there.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:05 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:47 am @Long Con How likely is it that I am wrong about Roxy? Your thoughts?

I can't see why you would be left in if you are civ and SVS was mafia. You and I have both expressed suspicion of her. That would mean they would be counting on eliminating me, and convincing you against voting SVS. But you've been shouting against her for a while now.
You said that Roxy is firm with her suspicions, and slow to change, and that's why she's not a Wolf to you. Is that all you look at when judging a player? What's her voting record like? What are the reasons for her suspicions, are they genuine or contrived? It feels like you put the words into a Roxy analysis, but none of the thoughtful analysis you are putting into getting someone else into the elim position. I don't have your confidence that she didn't just play a careful Wolf game - where is this confidence coming from?

I just played a game with S~V~S recently, Guitar Mafia, where I railed against her from the get-go. I made several good cases against her, and all game I couldn't get one person to listen to me. I was alive at the end when she and her Wolf team won. So I am not all that surprised to be left alive now, this is actually familiar territory. I don't know if she left me alive in Beans because my voice kept going unheard, or if she wanted the satisfaction of beating me without having to NK me.

Just noticed that I said "Beans" but meant "Guitar" mafia. Beans is the one where Nanook won the game for us Wolves, slanking the entire time.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:55 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:54 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:46 am You said I changed my vote already, I didn't change my vote until :59.
You posted at :59, but when I pressed the vote button and it refreshed the votes were already different. I voted first and then tried to post, unsuccessfully. Someone else had moved onto Wilgy before me. But as I point out later in my many posts from tonight your move onto Wilgy is the biggest indicator that you might actually be civ. I just don't understand why you acted as if you didn't know who had broken the tie, when you must have known. And btw, I thought you moved from Abigail, but she still has three, so someone moved onto her too. I would say I need to see who, but all her voters were civ so it doesn't really matter.

Are you lying about seeing my vote in there before you voted?
No I 100% believe I saw you voting before I changed my vote.

My impression of those events were that neither of you saw the others' vote at the time you voted.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:49 am Like off the top of my head Long Con maybe because I've townread him mostly through this and neither of us are dead.

The funny thing is that I think I've always heard about him being a great player.

I think I've maybe played 4 or 5 games with him I don't have a single idea of his skill level still because I think we've always been on opposite sides or threads.

The rumours about me are greatly exaggerated. I am not a great player, I've just been around long enough to grind out lots of wins. I'm wrong more than I'm right with my suspicions, and I am confirmation bias King. Great players are players like Alison, who I've watched keenly dissect a thread in an unarguable way, while maintaining a perfect Town mask... JJJ, whose process and thoroughness lock the conversation into real solving as a group... Macdougall, who can just stomp down hard on the thread and gather up the pieces, finding the Wolves as they run coughing from the dust cloud.

I have a cool highlight reel of astounding feats of very specific gameplay, all situational stuff. Not consistent enough to be called a great player, but I am receptive to bouts of inspiration at times.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:16 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:03 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:55 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:53 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:39 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:38 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:36 am I would probably want 1 more townread to be good to go.
Yours or from me?
Well from me but I'm taking your townreads seriously.
Feel free to criticize them if you feel I am wrong
Too busy criticizing myself.
Where did he criticize his own or anyone else's reads? Nowhere that I see.
Like literally this is like... awful.

Literally me saying I'm criticizing myself is me being in my own head talking about how much I suck because of my reads being inconsistent in terms of accuracy over the past month of playing mafia.

It's a mental issue about myself playing mafia.

LOL yeah, when I read that, I thought "pretty sure that stuff happens inside the brain for the most part".

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:21 am Long Con, you don't look particularly good. Just saying.

Most of your points against me were a dubious stretch or a misinterpretation. Just saying.

I have some work to do, then I'll go back and review the vote tallies and the top suspects of the people who died.

Because I may be incorrect, but I think that myself, Long Con, and Roxy have all voiced heavy suspicion of SVS. There is no way she could let us all into end game if she is bad and none of those three are. That would be suicide, assuming I'm correct, which I'll double check at some point. If I am, I can't see SVS as wolf.

This is not a bad point about S~V~S.

Also, I have been thinking about Lime Coke and my concern is his moving to Wilgy. If he is bad, it is the same situation as me. Why would a wolf Lime Coke move to Wilgy at last minute? Why call attention to himself when he doesn't need to? I don't know Lime Coke well enough to say whether or not wolf Lime Coke would do that. I just know for myself, I never would. I can't see the benefit for him to do it and that makes me pause about my assessment of Lime Coke.

Heh, fun that the two sketchy-voters on the Day 1 yeet are in the Final 5. We talked about why a Wolf would or wouldn't last-second vote/move like you and Lime did back on Day 2, and I think it got bogged down in WIFOM. Hindsight shows that there's nothing at all wrong with a vote-move like that, because you both outlasted most others, with relative ease. I wonder if the vote was actually part of the reason?

Especially with all three Day 1 vote trains now turned up Town, there's no reason why a Wolf would need to avoid a move like that.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:11 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:32 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:10 am I forgot about Spacedaisy. That's NAGL
This is another jab in the same flavour (flavor for Roxy ) of you mentioning twice that "isn't it weird that LC didn't die?" You don't come out and say "I think Spacedaisy could be a Wolf for these reasons", you make sure to mention something about a player as though hoping someone else would pick it up and run with it.
now THIS is interesting. First of all, it aligns you and me, doesn't it? If you somehow flip wolf, boy do I look bad! The craziest part is that I think michelle was just saying she had forgotten I existed in the game and that isn't a good look. But you jump to it being about you and that it's somehow an indication that you are still alive because you are bad.

That is not what this post says. This wasn't about me or you as much as it was about Michelle, and how she approached suspicion on some players.

The only way it "aligns" me and you is that we're both Town if Michelle flips Wolf.

You were Mafia'ing very late last night, so I don't know if you had gotten tired by this point, but you have either lost the plot on the logic for this one, or you're intentionally doing it to shade me.

Why have you not jumped at me like you did at Michelle? I'm asking the same question you interpreted her to be asking. I'm asking the same questions she did ask in other places. Why are you still alive Long Con? Why Abi instead of you? Why Epi instead of you? It doesn't make sense.

I was in bed by the time you said anything about me. You were doing Lime Coke and Roxy when I shut down.

Why am I alive if I'm generally townread? Maybe because my reads are wrong, and the Wolves want to count on me to get this last misyeet in. Maybe it makes me an easy target to BE the last misyeet, which is exactly what happened in Guitar Mafia (despite an obvious townslip, yes I'm still bitter), maybe because Abi's reads were right and she had to go. I'm not laying down to a misyeet that's based on the fact that I'm still breathing.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:04 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:30 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:00 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:26 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:22 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:20 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:54 am
And the mate? Who would be your guess?
I don't try to pair I think it's too easy to make yourself look unpaired from people and wolfs get away cause people ask this question and can't find anything and go nah can't be wolfs
That's fair.

Who is independently wolfy then?
I'd kill syn Daisy back to back see what happens
a town loss
Is that a solid Daisy townread then?

Hey, you seem like an approachable chap. Why not throw is a Syn-brand rainbow list out here?
An interesting question coming from you actually. Why didn't you ever suspect me? Why did you feel "good" about me? You never gave an answer to that, at least not so far.

Well... you didn't ask before? I'd need to go back and look at your posts before that comment in isolation to give the best answer, because I think most of your content has been produced after it.

This quote does show that Abigail was pretty sure you were one of the Wolves, though.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:03 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:21 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:49 am At the high resistance to chop her D1 I stopped to care about her alignament that much. I will just point at everyone who got cold feet and saved her.
Everyone who sheeped the anti Wilgy trend let me without my top town.

You just shrug and say you don't understand the kill.
Let's look at Syn and the reason why Abi votes for him
Why Epi and not Long Con?
I know why not me, because I was wrong.
And not you because of your defeatist attitude. Get rid of it and help me pls.

What questions do you have?
@Lime Coke
This is the second time you've tried to push me as suspicious for not being killed, without actually doing it. From you, it's just question marks and , but it looks like you want someone else to take it and run with it. If you ask me why I think I'm alive, I think it's so that you can push exactly this agenda.
Was Michelle asking the right questions and it got her dead? Hmm

I was Michelle's top town read, and you could be right about why she died. But it wasn't me that killed her, the one that killed her almost certainly had the idea you just brought up as a reason.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:01 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:18 pm What do you think of a Michelle/Abigail team? Although my main pairing would be Michelle and S~V~S. Spacedaisy would almost certainly be higher in my rainbow list at this point, because she has participated more and I seem to recall feeling good about her posts. I'd have to reread her to see HOW good I feel, but yeah.
I'm the only person you've never really seemed to suspect. You borderline defend me while still leaving room for you to decide I'm bad. But why not suspect me? Is it because I had put you in my town core? I'm more useful to you as long as I'm in your pocket?

...I don't mean that as dirty as it sounded.

Well, you were second from the bottom on my first rainbow list.

I didn't suspect you because you had far fewer posts than most players to analyze. Like Epi and Abi, the content wasn't there to build a strong case for either alignment.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:42 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:57 am Yeah, I'm feeling like suspecting daisy for that vote is putting the cart before the horse. As in, it's only suspicious if Abi or sig are wolves.
On the surface it looks like protecting me, but it isn't. It's just setting up a series of mislims.

It's not really either of those things. I just didn't agree with the logic of suspecting you because you tried to save a Wolf partner, before knowing if there was a Wolf partner saved. How is it "setting up a series of mislims"?

What's my Wolf logic there - I'm trying to get Abi and sig yeeted and then you? Why would you be eliminated when they were both Town? That doesn't make sense.

I didn't even pursue their elimination after saying this, so you framing it the way you did is not the greatest look. Why would you say that?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:07 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:16 pm So we're doing mountainous. What's the best way to approach day one of mountainous?
Is this your first mountainous game?

No, just this game's idea of a Day 0 conversation starter.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:47 am @Long Con How likely is it that I am wrong about Roxy? Your thoughts?

I can't see why you would be left in if you are civ and SVS was mafia. You and I have both expressed suspicion of her. That would mean they would be counting on eliminating me, and convincing you against voting SVS. But you've been shouting against her for a while now.

You said that Roxy is firm with her suspicions, and slow to change, and that's why she's not a Wolf to you. Is that all you look at when judging a player? What's her voting record like? What are the reasons for her suspicions, are they genuine or contrived? It feels like you put the words into a Roxy analysis, but none of the thoughtful analysis you are putting into getting someone else into the elim position. I don't have your confidence that she didn't just play a careful Wolf game - where is this confidence coming from?

I just played a game with S~V~S recently, Guitar Mafia, where I railed against her from the get-go. I made several good cases against her, and all game I couldn't get one person to listen to me. I was alive at the end when she and her Wolf team won. So I am not all that surprised to be left alive now, this is actually familiar territory. I don't know if she left me alive in Beans because my voice kept going unheard, or if she wanted the satisfaction of beating me without having to NK me.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:32 am Ok good, then I feel confident in the way I'm evaluating this and I'll continue.

Yes, we need to decide on an elimination today, and consensus is pretty crucial. If one Town member casts an off-vote, two Wolves could easily pounce on it at the last minute.

As in... we don't do it this time.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:25 am Is no elim the same as sleeping option yesterday?

Seems functionally identical.

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