The Syndicate

Congrats on the first civ win I've seen here, peeps

#worstmafiaplayer2014

Thank god someone wants to

My vote for LC doesn't suggest we should lynch him?

4 votes and the only basis is Simon claiming I'm a role with no elaboration and a few out of the blue comments that I'm playing a blendy game.

I would miss playing with you again, SoFi!

It looks like I very possibly will anyways.

Concern is: Would you vote there to lynch a baddie suspect, or to take LC out of lynch contention?

Ugh...

Lol, just figured you'd left by the time I read that.

She fits my "is possibly on a team with LC, or is Chick", so I certainly approve and would take my chance there.

Well that was a lot more than 2 minutes that went by.

Voting LC now. His vote to save himself if need be would put me at 4. So I'd literally need every remaining player to vote with me on this to have a chance at living.

Seeing as some of those players haven't even been participating, I'm not in the high hopes mood right now.

Bandwagons are one thing, but bandwagons without any attempt at disguising them with cases don't sit well with me.

Simon wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:I ballsed up pretty bad twice now. I'm so sorry Made. I officially can't read you for the life of me. Snow, I apologize as well.

Dom wrote:I believe LC pit MP and myself against each other

I'm certainly narrowing down suspects now. He's top of that list.

Via process of trust elimination: SoFi, BR, yourself, and LC fit the bill for either Chick or an active team baddie at a glance.

You never talked about DFaraday and you voted for Made.

Are you Professor Z? Are you on a team with DFaraday?

No and no.

I have DF pegged as civ. I thought I knew what was going on with you yesterday, but I suppose not.

Are you a recruit?


FZ: I don't know how I've played an under the radar game. I've certainly been participating less than I want to, since my work days got busier, but I 've stuck my neck out there at least twice on lynch votes. There was a day where I posted at least 3 times in succession trying to create discussion and hotbox else seemed to be participating. I fully expected suspicion after your first lynch and Roxy's. You're considering a vote for me because others didn't earlier?

LC: As far as I'm aware, there has been no formal case or analysis of my posts. Just Simon claiming I'm a role and some subtle working of my name into suspicion lists from MP before he died and now you.

Snow Dog wrote:WElocome bask soy guys..younpeoplw

I can't tell if you're insanified or drfunk.

I ballsed up pretty bad twice now. I'm so sorry Made. I officially can't read you for the life of me. Snow, I apologize as well.

Dom wrote:I believe LC pit MP and myself against each other

I'm certainly narrowing down suspects now. He's top of that list.

Via process of trust elimination: SoFi, BR, yourself, and LC fit the bill for either Chick or an active team baddie at a glance.

MovingPictures07 wrote: 1) Made has been a hot lynch topic for some time, and Snowy only got really aggressive with his vouching when Made was about to be lynched.

Never disagreed with that. Still, I would never out myself and leave that opening of confirming 2 vanilla civs to the baddies instead of just 1.

2) Note that the baddies might benefit to NOT NKing these two because generally civ BTSC groups don't have any other non-BTSC power (so what harm are they really?)

If I didn't post this, I apologize, because I was thinking just that. And I think that helps a baddie team even more, when they know who they can keep around because they pose no threat. But again, my personal take on game theory.

3) In addition, in a game with a Seemer, as you said, it might additionally benefit the baddies to NOT NK either of them because their vouching always raises the question of Scenario 2. Why NK them when Made can be lynched at any time, especially when we've had 5 straight civvie lynches? Leaves open an "easy" option to fall back on to lynch another civvie, then NK the other one the subsequent night.

I believe Scenario 1 is much more likely re: Snowy and Made, honestly.

Yeah, it baffles me that neither was killed, but then again, your thought makes sense. But, that really is a flip of the coin in my mind. :/

MovingPictures07 wrote:Fair enough, MR.

However, if you've yet to feel warmer about LC, Simon, and Made, yet you recognize a possibility for Scenario 1, why are you voting Made and not LC or Simon?

Probably because Made is the focus of both of those discussion topics. And consider what I just posted about my VERY changeable vote.

Simon, as I discussed, has been an enigma as I read him. He's jokey, cavalier, and unorthodox. My only brow crick is that he started the roll of questions against Hedge.

With LC: I will admit, I've been procrastinating on my read-through of him this week, just due to my own schedule. No excuse for that. My thoughts on him before that were coupled with a notion that he and Roxy might have had something scheming. I certainly lost some confidence in pursuing him after Roxy flipped civ.

My cold read on him has been defensive, not aggressive. I get the air of vagueness in his rhetoric too, which I think you or someone pointed out earlier in the thread. There's a lot of text to read in your back & forth with him too, ugh.

I will agree with him that you've been very "blinders on" this game, which I don't think is a baddie or civvie thing.


linki: I've never voted for Made. Snow, yes. And I've been vocal about why I've wavered on and off of him from Day 1.

Dom wrote: I honestly feel like I can't see a way for Made to be civvie
But I also feel like there's one role I can peg him into... that would make him civvie
So I'm conflicted AF

I could have summed things up a lot quicker by saying this too.

EBWOP: Let's try that out, Epi. I'll put my vote on Made now, but will be around as much as possible to hear all sides to this before the poll closes.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:Why don't you think Made and Snow could be a group of civ BTSC? There's at least one possibility for that. Just curious.

I acknowledge the remote possibility that they could be. But here's where my thought process is taking me:

Scenario 1 - I play a game where I simply have a civ BTSC partner. Now will I put up a fight to save him or her? Of course, especially in a game where there has been only civ-lynching up to that point. But would I out myself and my partner so obviously in the risk that any baddie would figure out my role and take advantage of it's vanilla-ness? That, to me, seems like it could cause more harm than good.

Scenario 2 - I play a game where I'm part of a baddie team and we've lost 1 or 2 members from opposing factions' NKs (the longer this game goes on, the more I hypothesize that this was the case with Llama, possibly Splints, but more likely Llama. Maybe both?). The desperation to save a chat-mate would feel much more pressing in that circumstance, I believe. And you can run the risk too, when one of you has a Seemer role.

As a habit, I really dislike voting on game theory; and that's why I've been considering, but not outright and aggressively pursuing them as lynch targets. Hedge's lynch has made me feel like putting my foot to the pedal though.


I was confused about Simon's vote first, forgetting there was even a character named "Professor Z" in the game (I've never seen a Cars film, in case you can't tell ). He hit Llama with this accusation too on D1, I see. So either he's messing around, or perhaps his vote was forced? It wasn't too long ago (Zelda or possibly the game before that) that I was targeted with a forced vote and decided to just make a throwaway post tied to it. Or, he's bad, as he certainly fits in with the Hedge situation before. I want to revisit that too, since LC and Simon are the other 2 folks who questioned her after her post (Made was the third). I've yet to feel warmer about anyone in that group of 3 after Hedge's lynch. I probably made a critical error not pursuing one of them first and trying to wait for Hedge to respond instead. Didn't expect others to jump on that lynch.

Ticked to lose Sabie again, also. Though I had no read nor reason to trust her, I'm irritated her Syndicate experiences keep ending so soon. Maybe I'll still not win a game years from now, but I can't expect people I introduce to have that kind of ignorantly loyal patience.

At risk of violating the game's language censorship, I'ma step away and take a walk.


Linki: I still feel uneasy with the Made & Snow connection. I'll re-examine everyone else this day period too because I flipped a coin and blew it with my Roxy vote. If this lynch comes down to that again, I don't want to make the same mistake twice, y'know?

MovingPictures07 wrote:
MR could be bad. He's followed practically every bandwagon all game, hasn't he? I think we need to look at voting records and discern which players have voted like that.

False. I stated my independent reasons for voting Snow and Hedgeowl, and had to make a gut call when it came to Made vs. Roxy. The only bandwagon I will concede to have been persuaded by was the one you started, MP.

I'd love to refute Simon's claim too, but I don't entirely understand it.

I have an uncomfortable feeling that Made might be a certain baddie role. :/

But were that the case, I hesitate to believe Snow would actually vote to save that teammate. UNLESS they are 1-2 players down already, which is possible given the NKs thus far but imo unlikely.

I suppose the chance that the solo killer hating ties means that he'll die if there is one isn't very high?

Self-voting is a ping for me late in this game. LC is playing sloppy too. Could him and Roxy be running some weird baddie gambit?

I'll vote for Roxy. Gotta jet.

Roxy: The non-participation is irking me too.

Linki @LC: Snow said there was a recruit, idr seeing mention of one.

Long Con wrote:

Roxy wrote:Also to anyone who has cleared MP to be a civ bc he MAY have survived a N attempt - HELO. - there are 2 baddie teams and Chick.

Just to clarify, there is only one baddie team, and Chick. British Intel is Civ-aligned, in that they need to defeat The Lemons to win. Also, it looks like they can win even if dead... but they don't need to defeat Chick Hicks to win (so Chick, leave them alone! )

The remainder of their win conditions are secret.

Lot of assumptions being made about secrets today.

Snow Dog wrote:Sally! I f you are still alive, let's have a chat!

Misfits has been over for a while...

Ok, so color me dense. Where is there a recruiter?

MP: Were I able to give a single answer, I'd place my vote already lol. I don't really have anyone I want to prompt action on right now. I tried that with Hedge yesterday and it backfired entirely when A: I was never able to get back in time and B: When I did get home post-poll, I noticed that at least 3 other players had hopped on to vote for her rather quickly. Really baffles me to see that her name's not listed in the poll thread now, as LC indicated.

Hostseseseses: Was the omission of Hedge's name and vote record from yesterday's poll recap intentional?

I could have easily answered your question with LC's name, based mainly on Day 1 and 2 posts and interactions with the now dead. But I'm thinking a couple of things (including this odd situation with Hedge's death) demand a closer examination.

Snow Dog wrote:My post was ignored earlier btw. I'd still like some answers.

To your question about Simon? I mean, I could see both sides to a host either making or refusing to make a first-time player bad. On one hand, baddie roles sometimes demand more involvement, and there's the whole thrown into a random social chat setting.

On the other hand, it might seem like a good idea to place a new player within a team, if only for the added support of teammates and an easy way to introduce the player to group of new players in a casual way.

I learned through my introduction in Dexter that being a studious new player can backfire when people assume you're coached. I don't like that assumption and, along the same lines, I don't automatically assume that a new player is good just because they are silent or saying typically rookie things.

Simon was the other side of the coin when it came to my interest in Hedge. His question and the subsequent endorsements of it have me feeling like a baddie is among that group. He is certainly not to be left out of that grouping.

Do I think he'd do it to a straight-up baddie teammate though? Nope, doubt it.

My thoughts exactly, re: all of that.

I don't know that Snow would do something like that, unless some kind of manipulation or gambit was going on. But I'm always hesitant to overcomplicate my thought process when it comes to those kind of possibilities.

LC and Made were both players I made note of when discussing Hedge and Simon's interaction.

Certainly makes me wonder about Made, but Snow was adamant in defending him yesterday. BR vs. LC is intriguing too.

I'm going loopy. Hopefully, putting a vote on Hedge will nudge her to return.

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#butts

Quiet games are quiet.

I'll spitball to a wall s'more. Made, Llama, and LC piggyback onto Simon's question directed at Hedgie. Anyone else as weirded out by this exchange as I am now? I know it was "early and everyone always acts zany early", but I can't let go that either a baddie likely got involved in this jokey exchange, or Hedge and Simon could have been baddies going the obvious buddy-buddy route out of the gate. :/

Ebwop: D'oh, you said Tink, not Kate lol. I was gonna say, she has been playing for a long time, haha.

I remember Tink pushing early for Snow too, without much reason.

Hunting through posts on a Nook sucks, in case anyone was wondering. :/

Fair enough, Made. For what it's worth, I did take a look at Kate earlier in the game, but the only point of hers that cricked my brow was clarified soon after. She's the one out of the 3 you mentioned that I'd say has been distinctively absent. Boogs and Hedge seemed more active to me, but that could just be due to when I've been doing my rereads.

Boogs wrote:Rip FZ. I don't think MP is bad, just really passionate MP as usual and he made a mistake. I don't see myself looking at him today. However, I am feeling something weird about Snow but can't place my paw on it yet. Besides that, don't have anything else making me feel to look at tomorrow YET.

This post of Boogs seems like his most substantial, but also still very vague with regards to Snow. However, I agreed with his assessment of MP.

I have been meaning to take a look at Hedge more based on this post:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Simon wrote:Hedgeowl, are you a good guy or bad guy?

Neither. I am a good lady.

Why does that make you bang your head into a wall? That looks like it would hurt.

Made wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Simon wrote:Hedgeowl, are you a good guy or bad guy?

That is a very good question. I wish I had thought to ask it.

^^^

Long Con wrote:I am also very interested in Hedgeowl's answer.

This is quite a lot of attention for one owl. Just because I've been bad or Indy the last two games?

I don't know who I will vote for yet, but should be around tomorrow since the snow might keep us here for another day.

But she has not made too much noise since then. Personally, that exchange between her, Simon, and LC seems either dismissive or contrived.

Any reason you left BR, Sabie, Tink, and Simon off your mention of low participants?

Dom, I apologize. I not only missed your conversation with yourself, but I missed this as well until my reread:

Dom wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:So we've got a telethon going on at work; I don't have a ton of time today.

Dom: That warranted a vote for Made? Does that indicate any kind of change in stance or reservations about MP?

Made: I think MP's point against Bass was somewhat different from that against FZ. I'll have to read back and look.

I thought my conversation with myself made it pretty clear why I'm likely wrong about MP -- he was targeted for a NK
Doesn't mean anything 100% but it certainly makes it less likely that he's bad.



Any reason why you're ignoring that?

This clears things up.

I would be interested to hear more on what Dom's thought process was switching from "I'll vote you until you're lynched" confidence about MP to Made.

Lacking that response and running out of time, I'm going back to Snow. Though I must note this is back to my gut on his earliest comments. I wish I had more time today to study. :/

So we've got a telethon going on at work; I don't have a ton of time today.

Dom: That warranted a vote for Made? Does that indicate any kind of change in stance or reservations about MP?

Made: I think MP's point against Bass was somewhat different from that against FZ. I'll have to read back and look.

Epignosis wrote:I have to use the bathroom.

Snow Dog wrote:Can we call you idiot, Alex, if FZ flips civ? Because it'd be well worth the loss.

This too

On an unrelated note, happy to play a game with you again, MP! Glad my schedule is free enough for this one.

Wtf is going on?

Snow Dog wrote:

thellama73 wrote:If FZ flips civ I am coming hard after all you FZ voters when I get back to DC, especially Ambray.

Don't you dare come hard at me!

Gross.

MP seems unusually confident. Perhaps I was wrong about Snow too. I tend to focus too much on my cold reads sometimes (for instance, I was pretty off in Zelda but ran with it). I trusted FZ immensely yesterday as I believed her hunting and discussion was constructive.

Or is BR on a team with MP...? Ugh...

I'll vote for FZ. I realize that could put me in a bad spot tomorrow if she flips civ, but I don't know why MP would be this aggressive if he wasn't feeling sure of himself. I certainly feel more hopeful that FZ or BR will result in a baddie lynch. The mood today contrasts Day 1 a lot, I think.

FZ. wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:
Llama's flippance seems like a common thing to me. I don't see his chaotic/jokey voting as unusual, nor is it indicative of good or bad alignment. He's worth looking into, for sure. But I feel like he often makes for an easy bandwagon target because of his eccentricities.

I continue to feel the way I felt about Snowie's vote, even after he apparently changed it. That's the impasse I'm at for now.

Why? This just seems like a way to keep an idea going without explaining anything

It was what caught my attention on day 1 and was my strongest suspicion. I think it still is, so that's where I'll place my vote at the moment.

*votes Snow Dog*

@Made: Hmm, I don't see him being belligerent, really.

Made, what are your thoughts on Snowie and Kate?

I was super confused about who Shu Todoroki was until I went and looked at that poll out of curiosity.

I know my opinion was not solicited, but I'm in agreement with Roxy re: FZ.

Blooper is the name of the squid monster in Mario games (aka: Nij's user icon).

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
So basically, we have 7 people who fall under the category of either joke or bandwagon votes: Made, Boogs, MP, DFaraday, llama, Snow Dog, and possibly, but much less likely, Ambray.

It seems like possible baddie manipulation may play a part into it as well, since the votes were spread out enough. So that might be another thing to look into as well.

Llama's flippance seems like a common thing to me. I don't see his chaotic/jokey voting as unusual, nor is it indicative of good or bad alignment. He's worth looking into, for sure. But I feel like he often makes for an easy bandwagon target because of his eccentricities.

I continue to feel the way I felt about Snowie's vote, even after he apparently changed it. That's the impasse I'm at for now.

FZ. wrote: I get the vote for Snow Dog, though I think that if both ninju and llama are civs, and Snow Dog a baddie, then he would probably not want to look bad when they come out civ, so I assume he'd let someone else be the one to decide between them and try to stay out of the line of fire (not necessarily but likely).
As for Kate, I think that even though MP was the second to vote for ninju, he was the fourth to voice suspicions.

Ok, thank you for clarifying! I'm in a bit of a rush so I was wondering if I missed some of that suspicion (I obviously then saw that you'd brought up Nij's name too, so yeah at least 3rd).

I see the rationale in your thought process re:Snow too. Perhaps he genuinely believes he's jumping on a wagon to catch a baddie (Nij), idk. But if he does, it doesn't rule out the possibility of him being from just one faction of the baddies.

I do feel like Llama is more of an enigma to me than most players. Niji semi-fooled me last game too.

Voting Snow Dog.

I get the vibe that this Niji or Llama choice would be civ or civ. I want to hear from Kate too.

The playfulness of Snow's post above strikes me as off, if that makes any sense.

Linkidueto timeouts: Both haha. See above. Kate's was more of a serious question because I did a quick readthrough, but I don't understand if her comment was hyperbole or not.

While my readthrough was essentially, "Wow, SoFi and FZ threw down a gauntlet re:Nij.". And then thought to myself that of any post to call out, this:

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Rox, what do you think of Blooper's post?

I think I may also place my vote on nidgywuuji, due to the insincere post. In fact I have done.

Seemed like an insincere, bandwagony one.

But then I think back to Kate's post that I just highlighted...

Ok, out of curiosity, did I miss something here?:

Kate wrote:Couple that with his quick vote to jump on the ni ja votes.

My votes going to mp, at least for now.

He's the 2nd of the bunch that voted for Nij. Did others jump off?