The Syndicate

Okay, I'm going to step away from the game to breath...

juliets wrote:FZ, in Epi's latest long post he points out that if we lynch you and you are an unlynchable civ nothing will happen. If you're a Kira though the Death Note will be forced out of your hands. I know this seems like a dumb question but why fight so hard and make yourself miserable if the worst thing that can happen if you're civ is nothing?

I don't want to fight it, they are just getting on my nerves because they think they are sooooooooooo clever when in fact, they couldn't be farther from the truth, so I find myself arguing with them. I'm sorry that other than fighting for them, I'm actually trying to lynch those I think are baddies. I think I've just said some very good things about Mata, but they're just foolishly ignoring it. A part of me wishes they do lynch me and will then have to face the truth. But the part of me that wants to win the game, doesn't want to wast another lynch. I thought that's how we're supposed to play the game.

linki: okay

llama and Epi, you're not really trying to get to the bottom of things, you're trying to convince yourselves you're right. I see no point in discussing this further, because nothing I say will matter.

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:linki: Did you notice what number I am among his voters or any voters for that matter. If I recall correctly, I think I gave it all the time I could before I went to bed
Yes. Fourth.

You didn't ask him any questions. You just went with what other people said about him.

I think you knew he wouldn't get lynched.

Actually, I was fifth.
I had to go to sleep, I admitted to not having much on him, but that I trusted those who voted for him and that it was the best option for me that day. I didn't vote for Bea because she made it seem like she couldn't be lynched with voting for herself. I didn't know he wouldn't be lynched. If I had, I would have made sure to "build" a case on him, but of course I'm lying about that too

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:I just saw that Mata had already voted for me. Very interesting in light of all her other votes where she was pondering and contemplating all the aspects of everything. Have you noticed that she hasn't even asked me one question since I claimed my lynch would be a waste? Wouldn't she at all try to understand where I'm coming from.
Like you did for MM on Day 6?

FZ. wrote:linki: I would have had more fun because I'd be sitting here pleased with myself for managing to confuse you all so much

More interestingly, I just went to look at the polls, and Mata never voted this early. Her earliest vote was 15 on the voters and most of the times she's later than that. In addition, Mata didn't vote when we all lynched Snowman. I can't find her name on the list

*get off my case

thellama73 wrote:
FZ. wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
FZ. wrote: linki: Are you satisfied llama?
You told me who you are voting for, you didn't tell me who I should vote for, so no.
Haha, what? Are you looking for someone to place the blame on if she comes out good?
No, I am seeing how long it takes to get you to answer a very simple question.

You're not going to get anything more than me, so I'd put back the stopwatch. I'm not marching by your drum. I usually vote for the person I think should be voted. Apparently, that's not the case for you. You tell people to vote for one person and then go and vote for another?
Now get of my case.

linki: Did you notice what number I am among his voters or any voters for that matter. If I recall correctly, I think I gave it all the time I could before I went to bed

thellama73 wrote:
FZ. wrote: linki: Are you satisfied llama?
You told me who you are voting for, you didn't tell me who I should vote for, so no.

Haha, what? Are you looking for someone to place the blame on if she comes out good?

I just saw that Mata had already voted for me. Very interesting in light of all her other votes where she was pondering and contemplating all the aspects of everything. Have you noticed that she hasn't even asked me one question since I claimed my lynch would be a waste? Wouldn't she at all try to understand where I'm coming from.

This seals the deal for me and proves that she's not interested in helping the civvie cause. I'm voting for her.

linki: Are you satisfied llama?

linki: I would have had more fun because I'd be sitting here pleased with myself for managing to confuse you all so much

I would have been having so much more fun had I actually been a baddie

thellama73 wrote:
FZ. wrote:For crying out loud, I was suspected early on and backed off because it wasn't convenient to pick on me. When someone who seems legit by the players goes after me, the crowd follows. We already know some of them were probably civvies

Vote for whoever you want. Last time I encouraged people to vote for the person I thought was more bad, it turned out I saved a baddie
I am trying to give you an out and you are not taking it. Who should I vote for if not you?

I don't need an out, have you not been listening to me?
I gave you my thoughts on people, and where my vote may possibly go. I'm not even sold on you being good and I'm definitely not taking any responsibility for your vote. Vote for whoever you damn please

I am contemplating a vote for Mata. My problem is, like I said, if your main reason to vote for her is because she and I are working together, and you think she's been trying to avoid lynching me, then that is absolutely wrong. She could be a baddie that was trying to defend me because she thought I was bad, that's another story.

I'm at a point where I am willing to vote for myself. If I vote for myself and I get the most votes, you say I wanted to protect her because maybe she could have been lynched. I have no idea what she is, I know I'm a civ. Do I risk it and vote for her? Maybe. And there's also Bass, but I don't know.

And where is BR, and why isn't she talking more?

For crying out loud, I was suspected early on and backed off because it wasn't convenient to pick on me. When someone who seems legit by the players goes after me, the crowd follows. We already know some of them were probably civvies

Vote for whoever you want. Last time I encouraged people to vote for the person I thought was more bad, it turned out I saved a baddie

thellama73 wrote:
FZ. wrote:One last thing. When I come out civ, at the end of the game (not now, obviously), just admit that you were wrong, and don't make it look like you were really clever and trying to get me lynched because you weren't a detective, okay? Because I don't believe you're that good of a baddie
FZ, do you think I should vote for you today or someone else. If someone else, who?

Do you really care what I think? If you are a civvie and don't want to waste a vote, don't vote for me. If you're not, do.
And I don't know. You're thoughts on Mata are based on the fact that she hasn't voted for me. Since I'm not bad, that is a stupid reason. Like I said, the fact that she now wants to vote for me should be the reason to think she's bad, because to me, it could be a sign that she realized I'm telling the truth and does not have a need to keep me unlynched.

linki: Epi, I just want to know what will happen when you're proven wrong. All your suspicions are based on you thinking I'm bad. in the smallest chance that you're wrong (let's play that game, ok?), who would your suspects be then?

One last thing. When I come out civ, at the end of the game (not now, obviously), just admit that you were wrong, and don't make it look like you were really clever and trying to get me lynched because you weren't a detective, okay? Because I don't believe you're that good of a baddie

Oh, and as for the Bea note, this is the most pathetic attempt at a WIFOM I have ever seen, but you're obviously falling for it

Epi, just vote for me, I don't care any more. Serious question though: Could you just expain how if I am a Kira the death not is forced out of my hands or whatever it is you said?

Spacedaisy wrote:Here is my dilemma. I don't trust Epi. I don't think he is kira (or at least not an active one), but I don't think he is working for the detectives. I think he has his own agenda. However, I also think he really and truly believes he is right about FZ. He might not be, but he believes he is. And while his math seems sound, it's based on some assumptions. And until now, I have dismissed it because you feel really genuine. But the thing is FZ, when you claimed an unlynchable role, it looks like a preemptive strike. Like you are trying to hold onto a death note as long as you can. As if you can give it up and be unlynchable for a few days I would bet, but you don't want to have to.

Mata, what troubles me with you is two fold. You have listed some people in the past as your trusted players. it feels an awful lot like buddying up. Additionally you lately mentioned something that can't be discussed and I was looking at the roles to see what I thought of this statement. I don't know how I feel about it. And you fit the profile of what I believe a Misa or Mikami player might do. Blendy, not too many posts, but not too few.

I could see placing my vote on either of these two today. I will have to decide before I go to work tomorrow afternoon. I'll read some tomorrow morning and see where I land, there are a couple others I want to read up on because I'm not sure how I feel, but they are secondary. We will see how much time I have tomorrow.

I get how it might look, but I have explained why I've held on to it until now. I'm fine with people lynching me if it helps in any way. I don't have a DN, nor have I ever had or at a potential to get it in the future. I think it's a wasted vote, but really, what else can I do?

And now for my thoughts (I still need to finish catching up, but I'll do it later):

TH, you asked about my thoughts on Mata. The thing that made me consider maybe you're right, is the fact that up until this day, she said she was suspicious of me, but ended up voting elsewhere, and this day, when you'd expect her to actually ponder what I've said, is when she's more suspicious of me. It made me think that maybe when she though I was bad, she didn't want to lynch me, and when she's realizing I might be good, she's willing to vote for me because she doesn't need me.

Bass is definitely giving the most expected and easy suspicions, except for maybe llama, but I have no idea if his personal life has affected his game. At this point, he's giving nothing. He fits the sit back and let them all fight to the tee, so I can see myself voting there too. I would like him to comment truthfully about how much he's been invested in the game.

Rico seems very logical to me, but I'll have to reread him. I haven't been getting any bad vibes from him, but logical people can easily fool me.

Zeek seems okay to me. I don't think I agree with whoever called him out. I think it was Boo.

Juliets- I've never seen her as a baddie, but she always seems nice and considering all angles. I can see why she would rely on Epi's analysis, but I would like to hear more from her in terms of her own thoughts regarding other people.

I'm at work, so I can't make this long.

llama, I don't get how my actions sound less genuine than my words. I avoided the hinting until I found a very good reason to do so. If the baddies actually know one another at some point in the game, then they will know that others who can't be lynched have civvie roles, and will hence know my role. Once you lynch me, it will be in the open, so it doesn't matter if I say it or not, and this is the point in time when I thought that the reasons used to get me lynched would actually be compelling enough to get me lynched.
If I'd been a baddie that can't be lynched, I wouldn't have cared if I were lynched, because the civvies would be too confused to figure out when I can or can't be lynched. But with the civvie roles that can't be lynched, it might be a lot easier to figure out when they could be lynched, so I was trying to not go there. Maybe I shouldn't have done it anyway, and just waited to see if I was the one getting the most votes, but I'm so sick of defending myself, that I thought that if I said it, it would actually make a difference.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you can honestly say that had they been a civvie accused for 8 days, they wouldn't have lost it by now? (Just a small reminder: Epi snapped quite early (assuming he's good, Bea snapped relatively fast). I think I should get a medal for keeping it up for so long.

I'm off to bed. This is the most frustrating experience I've ever had in a mafia game, other than the last time I got lynched as a civvie, and I give credit to MP for that one :P

juliets wrote:I am convinced by the statistical work that was done that I should vote for FZ. unless there was a flaw that I skipped over when reading. I read all of Mata and didn't see what I was expecting to see so I can't vote there today. We only have 20 minutes left to vote - is everyone aware of that?

We have another day. I'm starting to wish we had 20 more minutes...

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:That you are Misa Amane and that you have given up your death note to preserve a 4-person voting bloc.
Great, so do you want to vote for me or not?
And no offence, but I hope the baddies will be as clueless as you
None taken. How clueless are you?
I think I'm very clueless, because spending so much time defending myself (8 freagin' days), has left me with very little motivation left to actually understand what's going on here
Well, lucky for you, you'll have three Days in which you won't have to defend yourself.

By the way, there was a second part to that last post I quoted and colored, but I left it off just to see what you would say:

FZ. wrote:Second, am I wrong, or is Near the only detective who can't be lynched (other than L, but then someone dies instead of him)? Doesn't this makes the likelihood of MM being bad pretty high?
I'm not sure I get how the mechanics work here, but how are we supposed to get unlynchable people to die?

Why? And are you really playing dumb? Suit yourself

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:That you are Misa Amane and that you have given up your death note to preserve a 4-person voting bloc.
Great, so do you want to vote for me or not?
And no offence, but I hope the baddies will be as clueless as you
None taken. How clueless are you?

I think I'm very clueless, because spending so much time defending myself (8 freagin' days), has left me with very little motivation left to actually understand what's going on here

Epignosis wrote:That you are Misa Amane and that you have given up your death note to preserve a 4-person voting bloc.

Great, so do you want to vote for me or not?
And no offence, but I hope the baddies will be as clueless as you

Epignosis wrote:Read this. I added the pink.

FZ. wrote:First of all, why isn't anyone concerned that Epi said he thinks MM is a shinigami after the vote was closed? If he thought it was a waste of vote, shouldn't he have tried to tell us not to vote there? Yeah, he said vote me, but he didn't say he thought MM was a waste of time. It seems very reasonable to conclude that he doesn't care if we waste lynches. In his eyes, either we waste a lynch, or lynch a detective (me).
Either we waste a lynch OR we lynch a detective (specifically FZ.). That was Night 7 after MM didn't flip.

Now, from where I sit, lynching a detective is worse than wasting a lynch, but it is still wasting a lynch. However, in the above post, FZ. differentiated between the two, implying that lynching a detective isn't wasting a lynch. Now she would have us believe that lynching her is wasting a lynch.

I love me some conjunctions.

Wow, that is so clever

When I say waste a lynch, I mean a lynch that will not go through. And at the time, you didn't know that I wouldn't be lynched and I didn't want to say it, hence I said either waste a lynch or go after a detective. Jeez, you see why I give up? Just vote for me and get it over with. What will you think after the lynch fails, that is what I want to know?

thellama73 wrote:If you were unlynchable, why would you say "don't lynch me, I'm unlynchable" ? It doesn't make any sense. MM and TH just absorbed the lynch and have largely been left alone ever since. If FZ had such a role, why wouldn't she follow their lead? FZ has been very passionate and convincing in her defense, but I am just not buying it. The behavior doesn't add up with what would make sense.

I'm not surprised you're not buying it. I just explained why. TH was lynched at a time a lot of the roles were still secrets. And I thought I could prevent a wasted lynch. Obviously not

DH, I've been trying to suck it up and all that even if I'm not having fun since I've been excused from the start of the game, but I'm only human. When you feel like you're doing this

, at some point, you're allowed to snap. I've apologized for it and there's not much more I can do.

As for the hinting I've done just now. I was really trying to play this game by being subtle. I didn't think wasting another vote and letting those unlynchable baddies narrow down the others that have the same mechanism, was a good idea that would help civvies in the long run. Hence, I never gave up and let you lynch me, and I thought it. But A. I'm tired of fighting this (I honest to goodness and tired) and B. We failed a lynch last round, and I didn't want to waste another one, especially since the Russ case is the most compelling of it, and Epi was bringing up a good point. Wrong, but sensible, non the less.

I was referring to llama mostly, when I talked about the going after civvies strongly, not Epi, because his reasoning has been much better than llama's in my opinion. I also feel a little like Boo is doing that, with the Bea thing, but maybe I just don't know how to read Boo. I keep going back and forth with him.

Boomslang wrote:
FZ. wrote:I've been thinking that maybe some of the baddies tactics is to push players really until they feel frustrated and they start outing themselves by hinting. It says Light has to know who some of the detectives are in order to kill them. I'm not sure exactly how baddies can do that without taking the eye deal, so maybe they are trying to get people to out themselves and then kill them during the night.
Who would fit that description? I can think of a few very obvious ones
In addition to Epi's numerical analysis, which is pretty strong in my opinion, this quote really calls FZ into question. I interpret this as saying that vigorous investigation should be regarded as baddie behavior, and thus discouraged. But if people don't push with cases and gather defenses from suspects, what do we have to go on for lynches? The civ cause would be hindered, and the baddie cause would be strengthened.

Like I said, the numerical thing is strong, especially if you assume as you should that Russ wouldn't have voted for a wasted lynch. A role check that ended up in a vote means that he got one of very few roles. The probability of him getting that and being wrong is about 5%. So in my opinion, either he didn't check me, or his outcome did fall in those lousy 5%. You can vote for me and waste that lynch just to prove to you that he if he did get a lynchable baddie role for me, it was wrong. I would understand it, but I'm telling you'll be wasting that vote. Don't take my word for it, I'm fine with it. Just keep in mind that we haven't lynched in a while and the baddies are killing us.

Even if I don't trust llama, the only reason for me to come out with what I'm saying is either he's right and I'm bad and am using whatever I can to prevent this lynch. Or, I'm actually telling the truth and I didn't talk about wasting this lynch because I really didn't want it out in the open for later in the game. You choose to take the former, you'll be proven wrong, but it's your call

Turnip Head wrote:In the meantime FZ, I'd like to know who you're considering for this lynch.

Don't know. If L says llama has only 10% chance of being Kira, is that on a specific Kira (light) or does it mean he only has 10% chance of being bad? Because the way he's going now seems like he's the one scared, not me. I am more than willing to get lynched, but I think it's a waste of time.

I need to think about the others brought to the table, but I have to run. I'll be back

Rico, I've said enough. Take from it whatever you want.

TH, I want to know what you think of my explanation

Epignosis wrote:Before I respond further, I am going to reread all of FZ.'s posts in light of this...revelation.

But "probability crap." That's good.

You're right, it's not crap, and I guess if I were in your shoes I'd give it some credit, which is why I decided to come forward with what I have. It's crap to me since I know I'm good, but yeah...

thellama73 wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
FZ. wrote:RIP Bea

Before I go into the number thing, Epi, I want to ask you a question. Do you think Russ would have voted for a player who couldn't be lynched? If not, if you lynch me and I don't die, would that convince you that if he did in fact role check me, he got a false role?
...

...

...damnit FZ, that's your defense?!

...Like half the Kiras will survive a lynch
Look, I didn't want to do this up until this point, because I didn't want to narrow it down for the baddies, but I'm left with no choice because if what we're going to base our decisions is Russ' vote, then I'm going to give you the logic I have. I could have let you all lynch me many times, and it would have been a waste of time. Like I said, I was trying to be vague.

So, if we agree that if Russ got me role checked and got a baddie role, his vote would depend on whether that role could be lynched or not. If he got an unlynchable role, he'd say he thinks I'm bad, but he doesn't think I should be voted. The only way he'd vote me is if actually got Mikami or whatever baddie role that can be lynched. If he actually got one of those roles, it makes the likelihood of him being wrong a mere 5%, which should really encourage you to vote for me. But if I am not lynched, I want you all to throw that probability crap out the window and realize that either Russ didn't check me and decided to follow Epi's long long case on me, or he got the wrong results, and you go back to judging me based on my game.

And with that, if the baddies kill me at night, it's on the conscience of those not even trying to listen to me
There's no way you would be defending yourself this hard if you had an unlynchable role. No way. This smacks of desperation.

Go ahead and lynch me. I've outed myself with this, so I no longer care. I was trying to avoid this as long as I could, and that's why I didn't want to get lynched- because I didn't want anyone to find out about it and narrow roles down. I was also trying to avoid wasting a lynch, unlike some people here. Since it's now out in the open, be my guest. I'm sick of trying to defend myself without being heard

Turnip Head wrote:
FZ. wrote:RIP Bea

Before I go into the number thing, Epi, I want to ask you a question. Do you think Russ would have voted for a player who couldn't be lynched? If not, if you lynch me and I don't die, would that convince you that if he did in fact role check me, he got a false role?
...

...

...damnit FZ, that's your defense?!

...Like half the Kiras will survive a lynch

Look, I didn't want to do this up until this point, because I didn't want to narrow it down for the baddies, but I'm left with no choice because if what we're going to base our decisions is Russ' vote, then I'm going to give you the logic I have. I could have let you all lynch me many times, and it would have been a waste of time. Like I said, I was trying to be vague.

So, if we agree that if Russ got me role checked and got a baddie role, his vote would depend on whether that role could be lynched or not. If he got an unlynchable role, he'd say he thinks I'm bad, but he doesn't think I should be voted. The only way he'd vote me is if actually got Mikami or whatever baddie role that can be lynched. If he actually got one of those roles, it makes the likelihood of him being wrong a mere 5%, which should really encourage you to vote for me. But if I am not lynched, I want you all to throw that probability crap out the window and realize that either Russ didn't check me and decided to follow Epi's long long case on me, or he got the wrong results, and you go back to judging me based on my game.

And with that, if the baddies kill me at night, it's on the conscience of those not even trying to listen to me

baddies' tactics are to push players really hard*

I've been thinking that maybe some of the baddies tactics is to push players really until they feel frustrated and they start outing themselves by hinting. It says Light has to know who some of the detectives are in order to kill them. I'm not sure exactly how baddies can do that without taking the eye deal, so maybe they are trying to get people to out themselves and then kill them during the night.
Who would fit that description? I can think of a few very obvious ones

RIP Bea

Before I go into the number thing, Epi, I want to ask you a question. Do you think Russ would have voted for a player who couldn't be lynched? If not, if you lynch me and I don't die, would that convince you that if he did in fact role check me, he got a false role?

First of all, why isn't anyone concerned that Epi said he thinks MM is a shinigami after the vote was closed? If he thought it was a waste of vote, shouldn't he have tried to tell us not to vote there? Yeah, he said vote me, but he didn't say he thought MM was a waste of time. It seems very reasonable to conclude that he doesn't care if we waste lynches. In his eyes, either we waste a lynch, or lynch a detective (me).

Second, am I wrong, or is Near the only detective who can't be lynched (other than L, but then someone dies instead of him)? Doesn't this makes the likelihood of MM being bad pretty high?
I'm not sure I get how the mechanics work here, but how are we supposed to get unlynchable people to die?

Good night

I really need to go...
Also, llama asked not to be lynched while he's gone, or has guests or whatever, so I'm going to give him the courtesy and not push for his lynch (even if he won't do the same). I'm not sold on MM, but I have no idea how to read him, and I trust the people who voted for him, not to mention TH has raised some good points, so if nothing dramatic happens in the next...minute, he's getting my vote.

linki: Thanks Mata. My sentiments exactly regarding the people voting for MM. As for TH, I didn't get what he was doing, but I think bad TH wouldn't do that. I think it's possible he's SIdoh or something like that and is trying to work with the detectives or something like that. I have other ideas, but I'll leave it at that.

Okay, voting MM and hoping we're right on this one

Matahari wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Matahari wrote:Reading ppl's defenses have struck me oddly. FZ is defending hard, but somehow, I don't think a civ would go that hard. Made has brought up accusations but its too little, too late. And the part about Russ is making me He has had plenty of time to talk about Bass before now too, I think my vote is going to the greater of 2 evils. voting Made
Fascinating to me that Matahari paid lip service to the FZ. suspicion on Day 6, but voted Made. Once again, Matahari has mentioned FZ. but is backing out of it because I'm going hard after her and (somehow) that's a "traditional baddie tactic."

Something to keep in mind, I think.
I also said FZ was one of my first suspicions in the game, but that doesn't make me right. I have been susp of many players at different points in play, but I like to feel a little more certain. So I will reiterate my position. You suspected FZ for not the clearest things to prove. I call that feels, but oh well. You made an impressive case on her, pulling her posts that explained why you were perceiving her as a baddie. That felt very honest to me. I have found her posting to people as leaving too much wiggle room for herself, and it seemed like it could be coming from a bad perspective, but again, that doesn't make me right. So, your case originally impressed me, as it showed your supporting reasons for feeling like you felt.

The post I quoted did not sound honest to me at all. Maybe you aren't bad, but that post sounds like spin.

Time is getting away from me, so here goes my ss stuff: I used to have TH slightly on the bad side of the fence, but not now. He is moved more into the good side. DH went from gray area, by-passed the bad side completely straight to good side of fence. Daisy, BR on the good side, Bea and Boo were on the good side, but closer to the fence at the moment. Maybe they are both good and maybe not, but I can't decide yet.

Slightly on the bad side, or on the fence are Llama and Epig.

I have a huge gray area. Most everyone else is in that area, for different reasons. I think DP is good but I can't move him yet. Bass can be a good and sneaky baddie, but I don't want to even think about him yet, being that loss can easily mess up 2 weeks of game play, obviously more in rl, but I'll look at him later. Boomslang, Zeke, MM, and Ricochet are ppl I'm not familiar with. With the exception of MM, who seems kind of whacky, the others trouble me because they are not saying enough to get a grip on. Although, when they do post, I don't see it as dishonest. So I probably missed someone, I'll post again if I did.

Any chance of you voting for llama?

Ricochet wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Will try to finish catching up, but I probably won't have a strong opinion on everyone brought into discussion. Studying FZ.'s and bea's "invitations" to lynch them right now. I think FZ, after considerable heavy defending including a particular emotional outburst, basically said that we'll be very sorry or be proven very wrong for lynching her. Bea self-voted and wants to get lynched. Does anyone feel these two attitudes, in case they're not genuine, could lead to different outcomes or reveals if the lynch would go through? I don't know why, but FZ.'s feels either like genuine civ dejection or baddie bluff, while Bea's feels like it could come from a likely (current) unlynchable.

Also, not sure how to adapt to DST, since I only switch at the end of this month. Can anyone confirm if deadline is 12:44 or 1:44am GMT?
Just to be clear, I never invited anyone to lynch me. I'm saying you shouldn't lynch me.

I'm going to wait 5 more minutes. If no one seriously considers my suspicions on llama, I'll probably go with MM, because if Bea is unlynchable, then what's the point, and I more than that, I think that of the voters who had already voted, I trust those who voted for him more than I do others
Not quite so, but I can also see how it was a closing statement from the previous Day.

FZ. wrote:I actually want people to vote for me. The satisfaction in the "I told you so" would be so much greater than the enjoyment I'm currently experiencing from this game. And is there a contra colour to Sarcastic orange? Because I really need it.

NIght
I don't have a strong lead on Llama. I can empathize with you fighting off hard his case on you or having received the "give me offense not defense" treatment from him, but I also feel he (or anyone else) could easily call your counter-case of him a NO-U. Snowman also NO-U'd him heavily, although he was way more unsubstantiated in doing so. I don't feel voting bea is the right option, either, and am kinda wary of those who immediately reacted with a vote towards her, even if for traditional "a civ would never do that" reasons.

Yeah, that was me frustrated, but it was a figure of speech.

As for llama, sure, it can be considered a No U, and up until today, I thought like the rest, that he's a civ and is just wrong about me. But I realized he's not really contributing, he voted for me today for a very lame reason, in my opinion, and he's very narrow minded in his suspicions. Heck, I think his reasons for Snowman were also not good ones, and for all I know, he just got lucky without intending it.
Anyway, since it's not going to go anywhere, I guess I'll be going with MM.

S~V~S wrote:It ends 3 hours & 45 minutes from now.

Yeah, so we're good, thanks

Ricochet wrote:
FZ. wrote:And I think you should just wait for the end of the month. I tried changing it, and it gave me an hour later, so I went back. I hope I got it right. In any case, I'm never here when the day ends anyway, so it doesn't matter much
Well it says 1:44 GMT (3:44 where I am), so I just need assurance that this is correct.

That's what it says for me too. But like I said, I didn't change it, so we're in the same boat

And I think you should just wait for the end of the month. I tried changing it, and it gave me an hour later, so I went back. I hope I got it right. In any case, I'm never here when the day ends anyway, so it doesn't matter much

Ricochet wrote:Will try to finish catching up, but I probably won't have a strong opinion on everyone brought into discussion. Studying FZ.'s and bea's "invitations" to lynch them right now. I think FZ, after considerable heavy defending including a particular emotional outburst, basically said that we'll be very sorry or be proven very wrong for lynching her. Bea self-voted and wants to get lynched. Does anyone feel these two attitudes, in case they're not genuine, could lead to different outcomes or reveals if the lynch would go through? I don't know why, but FZ.'s feels either like genuine civ dejection or baddie bluff, while Bea's feels like it could come from a likely (current) unlynchable.

Also, not sure how to adapt to DST, since I only switch at the end of this month. Can anyone confirm if deadline is 12:44 or 1:44am GMT?

Just to be clear, I never invited anyone to lynch me. I'm saying you shouldn't lynch me.

I'm going to wait 5 more minutes. If no one seriously considers my suspicions on llama, I'll probably go with MM, because if Bea is unlynchable, then what's the point, and I more than that, I think that of the voters who had already voted, I trust those who voted for him more than I do others

I need to go in a while. Anyone thinking of voting llama?

FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I'm not sure why, but it's clear he doesn't think I'm Kira, which makes me think he knows who is.
I get you. But he's supposed to play like he doesn't. Are you saying it was a slip?
Yes, it seems like a slip to me.

Maybe someone else can ask Epi my question :P
I think you can just dismiss Epi altogether. Obviously, he has no idea what he's doing...either that, or he's bad

This was supposed to come with a :P (though he is wrong). I didn't mean to sound mean

Turnip Head wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I'm not sure why, but it's clear he doesn't think I'm Kira, which makes me think he knows who is.
I get you. But he's supposed to play like he doesn't. Are you saying it was a slip?
Yes, it seems like a slip to me.

Maybe someone else can ask Epi my question :P

I think you can just dismiss Epi altogether. Obviously, he has no idea what he's doing...either that, or he's bad

Turnip Head wrote:I'm not sure why, but it's clear he doesn't think I'm Kira, which makes me think he knows who is.

I get you. But he's supposed to play like he doesn't. Are you saying it was a slip?

And isn't Epi employing the ignore TH tactic?

Turnip Head wrote:If you work under the assumption that MM is Kira or knows who Kira is, and that I do NOT, it's odd that he left me off of his original list of players under pressure in the thread who could have passed the notebook to gain invincibility (read up on the link I posted if you're confused about the point I'm making here, and remember I had JUST survived a lynch). He really should have included me on that list. When I pointed that out, he really had no choice but to say he thought Light was playing an under the radar game. And then it looks like he pulled a list of under-the-radar names out of thin air that would fit this profile he was forced to create. The fact that he hasn't stood by any of this is what's got me thinking it was all bullpoop.

Why do you think he didn't? Because he thinks you're bad and wants to keep you in the game?

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