The Syndicate

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:20 pm I think I have never felt like Dizzy was acting out of anything but a civ mind set, she seemed frustrated more than anything else. And if she were bad she would probably have used the opportunity for Epi acting crazy to try and make him look bad, but she didn't. So I don't see her very loud cries for consensus as any reason to suspect her, Why do you find them suspicious?

I wouldn't if I wasn't feeling like I'm running out of options.
I actually think blaming Epi for the craziness would have just made her look bad. If she is bad, she would have to use a tactic that was sort of a plea to hear her.
Meh, maybe it's far fetched. I don't know if I'm convincing myself. But if it's not her, it's either you or Marmot

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:55 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:30 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:21 pm @Marmot I don't understand what you mean by what you've said about me. I came in with my suspicion of you and then Epi came in yelling we need consensus and FZ moved to NVN and I said if that's what everyone else wanted I would go with it, but that I still felt like you bwere a better option. And then basically followed what Epi asked me to do. What did you want or expect me to say. It was clear there was some fuckery going on but what was I supposed to say about it?

@FZ. I have never ever made any such statements and it boggles my mind that you would even claim that. I recommend you read my stuff again before you come back and come up with a better case than that because it's flat out false. Regarding Epi's schtick, what was weird? I pretty much tried to give him latitude to do what he needed to because at this point I have no reason not to trust him.

@JaggedJimmyJay You want to lynch me next that's fine. It will only waste one lynch. But I would urge you to lynch Marmot next because I really believe you'll find your final baddie there. I've already addressed this point against me so I'm not going to rehash old ground. You do what you need to, and if it means lynching me to narrow PoE, so be it.

I was talking about Dyslexicon, not you. What are you referring to?

LOL, then your post was super unclear to me when I read it. i even read it twice at a total loss for where you would get that idea from about me. Disregard. It makes total sense if you were talking about Dizzy.

And what do you think about it?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:21 pm @Marmot I don't understand what you mean by what you've said about me. I came in with my suspicion of you and then Epi came in yelling we need consensus and FZ moved to NVN and I said if that's what everyone else wanted I would go with it, but that I still felt like you bwere a better option. And then basically followed what Epi asked me to do. What did you want or expect me to say. It was clear there was some fuckery going on but what was I supposed to say about it?

@FZ. I have never ever made any such statements and it boggles my mind that you would even claim that. I recommend you read my stuff again before you come back and come up with a better case than that because it's flat out false. Regarding Epi's schtick, what was weird? I pretty much tried to give him latitude to do what he needed to because at this point I have no reason not to trust him.

@JaggedJimmyJay You want to lynch me next that's fine. It will only waste one lynch. But I would urge you to lynch Marmot next because I really believe you'll find your final baddie there. I've already addressed this point against me so I'm not going to rehash old ground. You do what you need to, and if it means lynching me to narrow PoE, so be it.

I was talking about Dyslexicon, not you. What are you referring to?

I'm for lynching Daisy more than Marmot at the moment.

Sorry I wasn't around to react to all that craziness. I'm trying to figure out what was Dyslexicon's issue. She keeps throwing out these bombastic statements claiming we should be focused, we should be serious and stay on target and whatever. I can't remember. If I have time I'll go look for it. But they are all sort of empty. There's no real content in them. What's that about? And then, her reaction to Epi during his shtick, was also weird. In the small chance we're way off with Marmot or Daisy, maybe it's worth looking into her again. I know there's the whole Lorab thing, and I don't remember exactly what went on with that, but is it really impossible they were putting distance between each other?

I'm just going to go to bed. I can't think at this state.

By the way, out of curiosity, what exactly does Perchik's role do? What would happen if someone redirected a player? Does his power get cancelled or does it move to another target than what he intended?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:15 pm Or 3. NVN wasn't forced at all and just fumbled and Marmot might be reaching for any kind of justification at the moment.

What is it that makes you move your vote to NVN?

linki @Epi: I can be around most of today, I'm off.

I was going to vote for NVN in the first place, but then what you said made some sense to me and I changed, but I'm trying to understand what exactly is going on between Marmot and NVN. What was NVN trying to imply if not that he changed his vote because he had to?

I moved back to NVN. There's no tie at the moment. I've already had my Kosher meal, benched and everything, so I'll be going to bed. Sorry I won't be around when the day ends


@linki: His vote for Marmot last day. At least that's what I think he's referring to is there no poll thread any more?

Sorry, I'm thinking as I go, so I'm posting again. The two previous posts leave two options, in my opinio:
1. NVN is lying and was faking a force.
2. He's not lying, but the person who forced him is not Marmot.

Does this make sense? I want to move my vote off of Marmot

Basically, if Marmot was bad and wanted to force someone to vote for him to make himself look better, wouldn't he pick someone other than NVN? If he just wanted to frame NVN, why not force him to vote for someone who looks a lot more civvie like than Marmot? What would be the point in forcing him to vote for someone we are considering to be bad, and who actually is bad?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:54 pm That was my phone deciding to post before I was done typing, but I guess "why" functions adequately enough.

Why is it preferable to leave this lynch in the rabi's hands?

It was a joke...


I just went back to read the exchange from last page where Marmot accused NVN of faking a forced vote. If this was the baddies plan, to fake a forced vote, or even to force one of their own to vote Marmot for example, wouldn't NVN need to actually convince us this is what happened? Instead, he just voted for Marmot without saying a thing. I'm trying to decide who is lying.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:47 pm Why are we splitting the votes and making it all *insert shrug emoji*

I’m voting NVN, cause duh.

On phone now, will probably be able to read and comment when home

We're going to let the rabi decide, assuming he's still alive. He's closer to god, maybe he'll have some divine help...

Marmot, are you bad?

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:58 pm It's easier for every player to stay consistent with that read, because they can look around at every other player in the game, and see the same thing happening. Thus, anything I say will fall on deaf ears.

That's not true. I keep changing my mind. May change it again


When the hell did that fz.fz.fz. appear? It's not there now...or is it?

Is Marmot the kind of player that would vote a team mate without a problem?

I'm going to vote Marmot for now, because I like NVN's defense. I want to hear more from him

Hmm, interesting thoughts about Marmot. I was coming in ready to vote for NVN, but this got me doubting it

I'm off to bed. Hope I'll still be alive when I wake up.

@linki: I'm hoping this is indeed a newbie baddie slip and not a civvie doing the mistakes we usually end up mistakenly lynching when we assume it's a baddie thing. Used to happen to often on this site.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:15 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:54 pm Can we just lynch Nova next day and hope for the best?

He's my top pick right now and it isn't especially close.

I've got no reason to not want to lynch him, but what separates him so much from the rest of the pack?

He gave no reason to trust him, while the rest, when they post, feel better to me. But I might just be a sucker...

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:05 pm The reason I like NVN as a suspect is that the suspicion doesn't involve anything LC said or did, so it's free of his WIFOM generation. It's all on NVN himself for that bizarre voting behavior yesterday. The first one (voting Marmot to pull him within one vote of LC) looked like an oopsie that he struggled to clean up with vague assertions about Marmot.

Did LC or Lorab talk about him?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:06 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:01 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:54 pm Can we just lynch Nova next day and hope for the best?

He's my top pick right now and it isn't especially close.

Mine too, it's just that it feels too easy. But hey, maybe it is


@linki: I don't think it's Wilgy. I think he was a different quiet and lazy when he was bad last time I played with him. He actually apologized for being away and not contributing. Now it's like he doesn't give a damn

Wilgy is the meta master. He tries different things every time he is mafia. You cannot use meta well on him. The best way to case him is to try to civ read him for his civilian efforts. If they are lacking then there is often a Mafia shirt under his button down.

If you put votes on town Wilgy he usually white flags. Mafia Wilgy usually pours gasoline everywhere and sets fire to the place.

You just gave him instructions for what to do in case we vote for him.
Anyway, I just don't see myself voting for him. My gut is telling me he's good

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:54 pm Can we just lynch Nova next day and hope for the best?

He's my top pick right now and it isn't especially close.

Mine too, it's just that it feels too easy. But hey, maybe it is


@linki: I don't think it's Wilgy. I think he was a different quiet and lazy when he was bad last time I played with him. He actually apologized for being away and not contributing. Now it's like he doesn't give a damn

Can we just lynch Nova next day and hope for the best?

That actually convinced me Mac

And yep, I see why we trust Dyslexicon

Thanks JJJ, but I meant in the more serious sense. I think it only started last day.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:31 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:30 pm I forget, why are we so trusting of Dyslexicon given her voting record, other than a general civvie vibe?

I think the best evidence is their early and frequent antagonism with LoRab.

Okay, I don't recall that. Maybe it was when I went to sleep and neglected to catch up.

JJJ, as the expert in looking for posts, who was it that started the suspicion on the other? Mac on Marmot, or the other way around?

I forget, why are we so trusting of Dyslexicon given her voting record, other than a general civvie vibe?

linki: Sloonei, I would go with Neither Daisy nor Marmot. The more I read from Daisy, the better she looks to me, and MM could easily be the 3p but he doesn't strike me as bad. Nor does Wilgy or Kyle at the moment. So I'm left with either NVM or one of Mac and Dyslexicon

Sloonei, I would love to see what you come up with regarding Daisy. I'm not the ISO-ing kind of person. It's too meticulous for me, but I'd like your thoughts on her.
I know people said Wilgy can be like this when in both alignments, but he's another person I'd go after only when we run out of options. If he's bad, I almost pity the baddies...


Which reminds me, Marmot, I haven't answered your question from way back when regarding the similarities to when we were bad together and you barely contributed for a while. This isn't even close. You were much more active than what I was referring to.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:17 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:13 pm I've played several games with Mac. I only recall one where he was bad, maybe there was another one. Problem is, I remember him being very "useful" to the town that game. I think it was the first game I've ever played with him. I often feel about him that he has the "I don't give a shit" attitude when he's good, and he gives these sort of answers that imply he's doing his own thing and doesn't really care what you think. This game he feels like he cares a lot. The thing is, I haven't played for a long time and maybe I forgot games he was this serious as a civ. So I want people who know him to tell me whether there's something in what I'm saying. If he's good, I think he deserves a win here just as much as any of us, so I don't want us to lynch him. But if he's bad, he's doing a fabulous job and it will be similar to the one I've played with him back then

I don't think this is always a reliable meta for mac, though I've seen it in the past as well. Most of my meta read on him is ancient though. With recent context, I could see a more focused and "helpful" town Mac in this game because he was just mislynched in Mortal Kombat.

Okay, thanks

I've played several games with Mac. I only recall one where he was bad, maybe there was another one. Problem is, I remember him being very "useful" to the town that game. I think it was the first game I've ever played with him. I often feel about him that he has the "I don't give a shit" attitude when he's good, and he gives these sort of answers that imply he's doing his own thing and doesn't really care what you think. This game he feels like he cares a lot. The thing is, I haven't played for a long time and maybe I forgot games he was this serious as a civ. So I want people who know him to tell me whether there's something in what I'm saying. If he's good, I think he deserves a win here just as much as any of us, so I don't want us to lynch him. But if he's bad, he's doing a fabulous job and it will be similar to the one I've played with him back then

Woohoo, I knew it! I need to take long breaks more often...

I loved LC's last attempt. I wouldn't expect anything less from him.


I don't see Marmot as the last baddie.

I have issues with assuming it's Kyle. He comes off too sincere to be a baddie in a lot of his posts. I'm sure he can fool me, but I wouldn't want to try and lynch him first. He's on a back burner for me. It's only if we run out of options.

Nova is an option. Since I don't know what the state of votes was when he cast his vote, I can't try and figure out his motive. Also, I understand he's new. Is he new to this site or to mafia in general? His vote was definitely weird, but why not just go with the flow and vote LC if he's bad. It's not like he could have saved him. Unless, again, his vote was at a time when Marmot had more votes. If he is new, it could be he didn't want to throw LC to the wolves and LC was around to discuss things in the chatzy.
Daisy is another option. Her post where she votes LC has the potential of being a baddie feeling they need to justify their vote when they're bandwagoning, so it doesn't look bad.

Basically I keep changing my mind about people every moment. I need to think about things for a while.
Hopefully I don't die tonight.

I'm going to sleep. I hope nothing changes in terms of who gets lynched today. I think LC is the baddie, mostly by process of elimination and the way he's handled this entire game. I really hope we're not wrong about this, but I see no other better option

Thanks jjj, so I was wrong. The fact that he voiced suspicion of Kyle means nothing

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:12 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:10 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:08 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:07 pm LC was one of the people who found something fishy about Kyle at the beginning of the game. For anyone playing on his team when he was bad, does he tend to accuse him team mates in early stages?

My first game with LC was a Mafia teammate and we went at each other on day 1 and I accidentally got him lynched iirc.

Did you start it or him? He doesn't strike me as a player who would point fingers at a fellow mafia unless it is necessary. You on the other hand, do

I can't remember. It was at the start of Talking Heads if you want to look it up.

I'm too lazy

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:08 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:07 pm LC was one of the people who found something fishy about Kyle at the beginning of the game. For anyone playing on his team when he was bad, does he tend to accuse him team mates in early stages?

My first game with LC was a Mafia teammate and we went at each other on day 1 and I accidentally got him lynched iirc.

Did you start it or him? He doesn't strike me as a player who would point fingers at a fellow mafia unless it is necessary. You on the other hand, do

LC was one of the people who found something fishy about Kyle at the beginning of the game. For anyone playing on his team when he was bad, does he tend to accuse him team mates in early stages?

Kyle, can you remind me who you think the rest of the baddies are?

By the way, JJJ, I'm as civvie as they get. Not a third fraction. I hope eliminating the mafia is going to be enough. I had a feeling this was going to be something like finding Lazar and getting him killed for the third fraction to be able to win, or something of the sort, because of the "revenge" part. I hope it doesn't mean they will revenge everyone

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:49 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:34 pm I think that at this point, after losing 1/3 of the team so fast, the mafia wouldn't let Wilgy be that quiet

Do mafia teams do this?

I would pm him like crazy to try and get him to be more active. Heck, if I were mafia and my win depended on a player who is just barely posting to not get any reads on him, I wouldn't want that win. But if he's just going to get himself lynched because of not posting, and that would cause his team to lose a power, that's even more reason to call him out

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:05 pm I think for some or many of us, Mac vaulted from being a less conclusive read to a solid civilian read after the Spacedaisy lynch when he began to investigate potential connections and narrow down possible relationships. Does anyone read him as a civilian for a reason other than this, and do we feel that this is sufficient reason for him to have enjoyed such a position of comfort?

For me it's the fact that he voted for LC who I really believe is a baddie. It's not impossible that he and LC, if both mafia, discussed things and decided this is what they need to do, and like I think I've said at some point in the game, I remember a game where he was the most helpful I've seen him and ended up being bad. But for the moment, I think he deserves the credit. If we lynch the person we think is bad and get a result one way or the other, we'll figure out what to do next

I think that at this point, after losing 1/3 of the team so fast, the mafia wouldn't let Wilgy be that quiet

Epi, why are you voting for Wilgy? Why are you not voting for LC?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:00 am

FZ. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:36 am I'm down to Kyle or Daisy after we lynch LC. Sure, it can also be Nova (not even sure about his name), but if so, then I don't even care...

LC has not been playing his regular game, I don't care what he says. He's being more diplomatic (in LC standards) than he usually is. Taking less of a stand and like I said, asking more questions and clarifications than I expect him to.

Some of Daisy's actions and stances are questionable, but her tone feels more genuine, and then there's kyle who has been talked about the entire game. He feels a lot more careful than Daisy to me, which makes me say he's the last baddie over her, but who knows

I presume you believe Marmot to be a civ then?

Not sold on it, but yeah

I'm down to Kyle or Daisy after we lynch LC. Sure, it can also be Nova (not even sure about his name), but if so, then I don't even care...

LC has not been playing his regular game, I don't care what he says. He's being more diplomatic (in LC standards) than he usually is. Taking less of a stand and like I said, asking more questions and clarifications than I expect him to.

Some of Daisy's actions and stances are questionable, but her tone feels more genuine, and then there's kyle who has been talked about the entire game. He feels a lot more careful than Daisy to me, which makes me say he's the last baddie over her, but who knows

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:01 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:56 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:53 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:45 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:36 am why is "push Marmot" a viable scum strategy for Macdougall entering Day 3?

Attacking Marmot for lazy play, as if Marmot tends to be an overly-vocal, super-analytical player. Possibly ironic, because THAT looks like lazy play on Macdougall's part, going after Marmot for his extremely usual play.

I'm not sure this answers my question, so I'll rephrase: why does it make sense for macdougall, as scum, to pick Marmot of all people as his lynch target for the day?

I guess if I were a better Mafia player, I could figure out that answer. Unless it specifically makes NO sense, then it's a strategy a person could go with. If Marmot is Civ and Mac is bad, then it makes sense to try and get a Civ lynched, while also looking like you're doing some new, fresh hunting. In this instance, though, the new, fresh hunting looks stale.

Well I am doing my best to make a sensible case against a player I find suspicious. I also haven't just plucked him out of nowhere as you are suggesting.

I have been trying harder to solve the game than most. Yourself and Marmot included. I suggest you look elsewhere because I am a civ.

He's going after you because he's bad and he needs to put the blame somewhere...

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:15 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:13 pm Never mind, I found it. This reminds me, what happened in the thread that made jjj say there was a curse?

Dizzy kept repeating the same nonsensical reason to vote for Jay

Wow, I'm impressed. That's a smart move if you're forced to vote for someone. Say your reason over and over again.
That said, are the mafia allowed to curse themselves? We've done that where I've played before to make ourselves look like civvies

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:12 pm

FZ. wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:58 pm Can anyone give me a reason to trust Wilgy?

@linki: thanks

On Day 1 he had his vote on me late but then changed it to kyle and tried to get a late bandwagon against him (or at least appeared to try). Scum wilgy could have just stayed on me without much trouble

Yeah, but it's Wilgy. He does crazy things. Sadly, I can't hold him to the standards I hold the rest

Never mind, I found it. This reminds me, what happened in the thread that made jjj say there was a curse?

Does anyone have the order of the votes? When did Wilgy vote for Kyle? When did Kyle vote for Daisy? And when did Daisy vote for Nutella?

@linki: I only read the part about JJJ and I'm sorry, I just don't see him as bad, especially when I consider LC bad.
What did you say about Daisy?