The Syndicate

Matahari wrote:
Spacedaisy wrote:I don't really know at this moment. I feel like there were some really big personality players going back and forth in the thread today but I'm not sure what I make of it.

Also... WIFEY!!!!

Does anyone think there may be challenges either attached to the Day 0 poll, or just as part of players secrets? Normally when there are challenges or wins attached to polls, I will see an occasional post from ppl about the possibility, but I'm not seeing this. Some things would seem less of a mystery if we thought there was a possibility of secret challenges... like Russti not speaking, TH not being consistent and then the way he voted early, I'm just getting the feeling that either some players have adopted new play styles, or something else is going on. And a role that doesn't post because he can't be lynched is a little too blatant. The host asked for no hinting, and being silent due to feeling safe from a lynch would be a lot like role-hinting.

sorry for rambling.

I missed this post. Yeah, I'm trying to think why some people are acting so out of character. What are usually the consequences of secret challenges?

Also, do you have any thoughts about the players themselves?

S~V~S wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:That is helpful.

While DH and Epi tango, and trice and Aces rave, boo feels like the odd one out in this party.
I am not seeing bad boo so far, not at all.

And FZ, "wot" meaning I disagree that discussing the Yotsuba is a baddie waste of time. They have a Kira and they have secret win conditions. I would rather lynch direct baddies, yes, but the Yotsuba may have a kill at some point, some rather vague point, Lol, so

So if you knew someone was this Yotsuba, you'd lynch them now instead of looking for a sure baddie?

It's funny how TH is not even trying to come up with a reason to vote llama

AceofSpaces wrote:
triceratopzeuhl wrote:
S~V~S wrote:(and trice, I was only thinking of games in our "universe"; where else do you play?

I've played a few games on each of: Progarchives, The Piano, 4EW, this site, and I can't remember where else. None of these sites seem to last very long lol. I've also played lots of the card game version of mafia, before I ever started this

AceofSpaces wrote: Way too confrontational? Like when you assume anyone who has anything critical to say of you is automatically mafia?

AceofSpaces wrote: It is pretty bad form to automatically assume anyone who calls you suspicious is a baddie, Trice. It's reactive and over-defensive, and well.....confrontational.
No, just you and only because you still try to push it as bad to even consider L/Light not a "goodie" option. That's much more self-defensive than anything I've done.

You're the only person I'm actively accusing here, so you can't try to push that as anybody who calls me suspicious - a few others have as well.

DH had a really weird flip around as soon as I posted anything against you, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you two were teammates.

I mean look at your laughable "case" post, it consists almost entirely of "trice is mafia because he made multiple posts in a row fast. Therefore reasons!"

Your gross misrepresentation of my case against you combined with your lack of any substantial defense is the last nail in your coffin as far as I'm concerned.

For those still making up their minds on who to vote today, I strongly recommend Trice.

Vote= Trice

While I can see a case of two civvies butting heads, the thing that bothers me about you is, that you're only fixated on Trice, while Trice even though going after you, is still trying to look into other things. I think baddies focus on one person more than civvies, and like I said, since it's only day 1, this bothers me even more.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Let me back up. Epi, you said you suspected Rico because his lore-based assumptions seemed disingenuous.

You have made two lore-based assumptions

1) That a majority of the Yotsuba group pose no threat to the Detectives
2) That Russ, someone who (possibly) cannot defend himself from your vote and suspicion, must be bad because he is not posting.

Do you not see how these assumptions can come across as a touch disingenuous? You expect me to believe that you genuinely want to vote for a non-poster given all thats gone on? You expect me to believe that (without any quantifiable proof) Yotsuba are god fearing honest-to-goodness boyscouts?

Come on son.
I do expect you to believe that I am willing to vote for a non-poster because I literally said it. Hey DH: I am willing to vote for a non-poster, even after all that's gone on. What about that statement do you find disingenuous or unbelievable? Do you think I have said that I am willing to lynch Russ but secretly want to lynch someone else? Why can't Russ defend himself?

Do you believe this is 12 civilians versus 14 Mafia? If so, why? Is that a balanced scenario? The detectives need the Kiras dead to win. There is one Kira in Yotsuba. Saying that I expect you to believe that Yotsuba are "god fearing honest to goodness boyscouts" exaggerates my position beyond recognition.

I cannot fathom why you insist on misrepresenting my view. Is it deliberate?
What about your lore-based assumptions versus Ricos makes you correct and him disingenuous? Your first assumption (That Yotsuba are for the most part independent rather than a mafia) Is convenient because it helps you on all angles.

1) If you are a Yotsuba, it protects you from civvie prosecution.
2) If you're not a Yotsuba, it protects you from Yotsuba prosecution.

I think you are not a Yotsuba. I think you crafted this view in order to appear as though you were, and you're framing the Yotsuba group in a mostly-favorable light in order not to get lynched, and possibly not to get NKed by the Yotsuba.

Though if you were a Yotsuba, propping them up as irrelevant to the Detective win condition would be a good way to hint to your teammates that, when they cast their votes on who to night kill, they should avoid you.

Your second assumption gives you an excuse to place a vote on someone who will in all likelyhood be unable to stop you, or defend himself. It is also not a popular suspicion, so whoever DOES get lynched today, your hands will be clean. Pretty funny how that works out for you, aint it?

I'm not misinterpreting anything you've put out here. What you said was that you suspected Rico for disingenuous lore-based assumptions. Since then, you've made two pretty clever lore-based assumptions that do nothing but help you.

Interesting take on the matter. Haven't thought about it that way

S~V~S wrote:
FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Let me back up. Epi, you said you suspected Rico because his lore-based assumptions seemed disingenuous.

You have made two lore-based assumptions

1) That a majority of the Yotsuba group pose no threat to the Detectives
2) That Russ, someone who (possibly) cannot defend himself from your vote and suspicion, must be bad because he is not posting.

Do you not see how these assumptions can come across as a touch disingenuous? You expect me to believe that you genuinely want to vote for a non-poster given all thats gone on? You expect me to believe that (without any quantifiable proof) Yotsuba are god fearing honest-to-goodness boyscouts?

Come on son.
Why does it even matter at this point? If you think Epi is a Yotsuba, do you really think he's the one we should be focusing on now? Unless you think he's a baddie talking about the Yotsuba. If he's a baddie, making the Yotsuba seem baddies to us is much better strategy. Either way, it's a waste of time
wat

[/domchannel]

What what?
If Epi is Yotsuba, he's definitely not a person we want to lynch first, I think. Because they are not confirmed baddies, or did I get it wrong? If DH thinks he's a baddie because he's not calling the Yotsuba baddies, it makes no sense, because a baddie would want the players to lynch all that are not him, so making the Yotsuba look more like baddies should be his interest

By the way, where is LC? I don't remember him as the quiet type?

DharmaHelper wrote:Let me back up. Epi, you said you suspected Rico because his lore-based assumptions seemed disingenuous.

You have made two lore-based assumptions

1) That a majority of the Yotsuba group pose no threat to the Detectives
2) That Russ, someone who (possibly) cannot defend himself from your vote and suspicion, must be bad because he is not posting.

Do you not see how these assumptions can come across as a touch disingenuous? You expect me to believe that you genuinely want to vote for a non-poster given all thats gone on? You expect me to believe that (without any quantifiable proof) Yotsuba are god fearing honest-to-goodness boyscouts?

Come on son.

Why does it even matter at this point? If you think Epi is a Yotsuba, do you really think he's the one we should be focusing on now? Unless you think he's a baddie talking about the Yotsuba. If he's a baddie, making the Yotsuba seem baddies to us is much better strategy. Either way, it's a waste of time

SVS, you said that you expect baddies not to be as aggressive because they don't know who they are lynching. But the thing is, they'll probably be voting anyway, and the chances of them getting a baddie are just as high when they play a less aggressive game. I would say this is their chance to go really strongly after players because if they take out one of their own, they'll just end up looking good without having to carry the guilt of throwing a team mate under the bus ("hey, I didn't know").

So maybe those going so strongly after others have an agenda after all

linki: llama, the thing that's making me hesitate with TH is the fact that he seems so casual and laid back, which I agree with SVS is more indicative of his civ game

Two things are catching my eye at the moment:

1. Way too many people are behaving out of character.
Epi wants to vote for an absent player.
TH is voting early for llama without any reason whatsoever.
Ace is apparently posting a lot more than people are used from him.
I had more, but I forgot by the time I got here.

2. There seems to be some very strong 1 on 1 battles, which is something I'm not used to seeing in these games, especially not on day 1
DH and Epi
Ace and Trice
TH and llama

I'm assuming this is somehow related to the nature of the game, but I'm also thinking that maybe there are roles of winning terms that require taking out a specific player. Not sure what it says about the alignment of the players. I've played games where one of the mafia had to kill another in order to win, and I know the opposite can be done as well.

But these strong convictions are worrying on day 1 to say the least.

Turnip Head wrote:I noticed somebody has already voted for Llama. They must feel pretty confident about their vote.

When I said I was waiting to see something, it was regarding TH. all the last games I've played with him (at least to the extent I remember), when he was a civ, he voted almost last. He's a lot more indecisive. This very early vote gets you the

and maybe even my vote

Turnip Head wrote:I feel like Trice is trying to make a mountain out of Ace- and Daisy-sized molehills. It feels like a witch hunt on players that supported the L/Light Day 0 option. Granted, I believe he said early on that he intended to do just that, so at least he's consistent. But the hunt feels disingenuous because I feel he is misinterpreting Ace and Daisy's posts, as DH and Rico have pointed out.

(I think we can have two Rico's. We can make it work!)

I don't see it. If I were a baddie, I wouldn't just call all players who did something suspicious. Makes you look bad, because we all know baddies will be in both groups. So while it's a stupid (no offence) comment, I don't see it as a baddie one. Also, I see him focusing on someone other than the person who's calling him out, because it immediately makes people call you out on a NO U. So either he's a pretty sucky baddie, or this is escalating very fast into an easy lynch wagon. Granted, if no one knows who is baddie and who is not, even most baddies, I'd say you're all just wrong. But maybe I'm the one missing something

Epignosis wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I want to lay this out there too:

DH thinks I'm bad because I think most of the Yotsuba are independents.

If you are bad, what's a clever strategy when you don't have BTSC with more than one person? Widen the net of potential bad guys maybe?
Why did you let it out there, by the way? Do you think he's bad? What do you think about your back and forth?
DH himself has given me no reason to think he's good- I cannot reconcile his actions and posts with those of an ideal civilian. There is one thing however, which I won't elaborate on, that is an indicator to me of civility.

Okay, thanks. I hope all the arguing was necessary to come to that conclusion :P

Be back later

triceratopzeuhl wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
triceratopzeuhl wrote:If that's the best case you can come up with, you're not going to manage to lynch a civ today like you so badly want to
What?
I defend myself from DH/him, and at the same time level my own accusations, he responds by saying "im gonna lynch u now" instead of defending himself, what are you asking about? Aceofspades is:

L/Light supporter
low poster
sharing other people's ideas exclusively - without even going back to the original "suspicious" posts

it's not concrete but it's multiple pings - lynching baddies consistently is about either an obvious slip (there have been none yet by anybody) or behaviour recognition over the course of several days.

If I have time this evening I'll read back through the thread and determine which people aceofspades is pulling theories from (be nice if he had used quotes instead of barely rephrasing) - if they are similarly L/Light supporters with other pings, I'm probably on to something here.

As I said before, keeping an eye on people who do something isn't remotely the same thing as lynching somebody for doing something - which is what DH and AceOfSpades are bother trying to do. The game isn't the simplistic - not if you want to win. Flag it and continue playing, vote the players with the most flags.

I have to say, that between you and Ace, he seems more baddie. He's acting very sure of himself for a day 1. This is something I sometimes do as a baddie- try to look very aggressive and go after someone strongly. I don't think I buy it. I think he's nitpicking.

Epignosis wrote:I want to lay this out there too:

DH thinks I'm bad because I think most of the Yotsuba are independents.

If you are bad, what's a clever strategy when you don't have BTSC with more than one person? Widen the net of potential bad guys maybe?

Why did you let it out there, by the way? Do you think he's bad? What do you think about your back and forth?

thellama73 wrote:These are in order of posting.
L/Light is good:

Turnip Head wrote:Rest in peace Sockface! Yay game!

I'm torn between High Poster ( ) and L/Light options. The high poster one would force the baddies (and civvies too!) to be active if they want their votes to count, which should make for a livelier game thread. But the L/Light option seems to indicate it could have some strategic merit as well.
L/Light is bad:

Turnip Head wrote:Good points Epi and Daisy. Y'all have got me leaning for a normie lynch now.
L/Light is good:

Turnip Head wrote:I voted for L/Light influence. The more I think about it, the more I think it's the best way to catch Kira/Light. And it would be fun to do something different
L/Light is bad:

Turnip Head wrote:Epi makes some really good points. What if the wrong person got lynched every day, and each time flips civ? We wouldn't know whether L or Light was responsible. We'd actually have less information than we started with.

I *symbolically change my vote to Normal*
L/Light is good:

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Rico, where have you landed on this L/Light vs Normal debate?
Hardly keeping my brain cells from not popping, in terms of following said debate. Undecided, otherwise. I haven't heard from others if L's checking wouldn't put him in an advantage or at least create a balance of somd sort.
I'd say we don't know enough about how L's percentages are determined to know if this is true or not. Although I do like to think L must have some way to use this option to his advantage, even if he himself is not at the top of his baddie detecting game.
L/Light is bad:

Turnip Head wrote:In any case , the L/Light option will NOT give the thread more information. It centralizes the information and puts it into the hands of the leaders of two teams. It is balanced, probably, and would definitely be fun, but a normal lynch is the safest and most reliable option, no question.
No question? Please. You've got more waffle than a breakfast buffet.

Are you suggesting he's a baddie? Why would a baddie be that indecisive? What does he get out of it? And if not, what's the point in even bringing it up apart from appearing like you're baddie hunting?

Thanks, Roxy

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Why are you making this into something it isn't? I never said I suspected you, and was only giving my opinion in reply to someone else.
Because I've been falsely accused.

You're always flying under the radar with jokey posts, and I don't see this game as any different so far, but it always gets me to notice you. Any thoughts so far?

Epi, the 27 happened before everything going crazy in the Donner game, so at that time, I still wanted to play. Do you want my back and forth PMs with MP on the matter? :P

Thanks for the compliment, and when I start getting into the game, I hope to actually be helpful, but that's what it is, and I really don't feel like defending myself for something that is out of this game. You want to think I'm baddie for how I'm acting, I guess I can understand it, but it's wrong.

I'll be back later.

Bea, to your question, my answer is if I had to choose one that was baddie out of the two, it would be DH because Epi seemed like a frustrated civ, and I think baddie epi would not let frustration get out, as seen in the Donner game. It still doesn't mean he can't be one of the roles that could later align with the baddies, if I understood anything from that long conversation.
But I just couldn't be bothered with their back and forth, so I don't really think anything of DH at the moment either.

Since almost no one has BTSC, it's going to be hard to use voting records or connections between players, so at this point I can see everyone legitimately trying to baddie hunt and don't expect to see much defending, which is definitely going to make things harder for the civvies.

That's where I'm at. Sorry for not having anything worth while to add. There is one thing I am looking at, but I'll keep it to myself for now

EBPO...meant to say "is to not disappoint"

Epignosis wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I made a list of four people that I would vote for on Day 1. Turnip Head is one of those, although not for the same reasoning you raised, llama.
Am I on your list?
No. I like you.

In fact, so that no one accuses me of being opportunistic or jumping onto other people's cases, I'll name the quartet now:

Ricochet, Turnip Head, spacedaisy, and FZ.
Why these four?
I believe Ricochet was being deceptive in his Day 0 questions. I think he was pretending to be clueless. He is not clueless. He is very smart. Even he knew that Simon Railton belong in the Eclectic category but sucked beyond belief! I think Ricochet is bad.

Turnip Head? TH has been boring beyond belief. Also I think he is tied to another player.

spacedaisy voted Day 0 and didn't say why. I think spacedaisy is bad with FZ. FZ. also has been absent. I think these two are unsure of what to say.

0

Sorry, I'm just not in the mood to play, and at this point, the only reason I'm playing is not to disappoint MP. And this is a shitty reason for thinking I'm bad.
You are right about me not knowing what to say, though. With my lack of enthusiasm and the posting diarrhea that's been going on here, all I'm reading is DH blah Epi blah blah etc'. There is only one person making sense to me at this point.

I'm not familiar with the theme of this game, and did not thoroughly look at the list of roles, just saw a lot of secrets and figured not much point.
At this point, I think the discussion going on is hindering real baddie hunting because I can't keep up.

Hey, sorry for not being here earlier.

As much as the L/light options sounds like a fun and tempting thing to try out, the points against it, brought by others seem very true.

I would also like to add, if it hasn't been said already, cause I admit I skimmed, that not only will we be putting too much trust in one person , but this person will barely be able to voice his opinions honestly, because if for some reason MP decides to share whose votes were chosen, it will make it easier to figure out who L is (assuming he picks those he seems to trust on the thread).

So I think I'll go with the regular lynch

The Syndicate

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