The Syndicate

Russ, if you wanted to play a game based on building cases for baddie behaviour, this was not it.

Everything I said, was checked with Roxy. This includes talking about previous roles, making pacts and whatever it is I said. While I really enjoyed the game (apart from the accusations I got for info dumping) because it does require logical thinking and stratigizing, this is by no means a mafia game, hence your "morally superior rules" regarding info dumping are just wrong in this case... The only real rule was not to say who you are now and what your power is, or what your power was.

If were a baddie, I'd just vouch for my team knowing that next day I'd rotate and my actions would have no consequences, unlike any other mafia game, because now I'm good, so just because I lied last day, doesn't mean you should lynch me this day. The one thing that was the same as regular mafia, was the lying and deception. Smart baddies would use that anyway they can and for once defend their team like crazy. We wouldn't have been able to know which team was lying, because the one thing we weren't allowed to say is, what team we are. So it was one team's word against the others.

Not my fault people didn't play this game like they should have. Now, I'm done playing. Have a good day.

thellama73 wrote:Great job with you info, FZ

Can we all agree that FZ is a terrible liar at this point?

I now want the baddies to kill me tonight, because this post is so full of crap. I said that if he's not a Donner, he's bad. I expected Donners to come in and prevent this lynch and I think I was pretty clear about it. This lynch is on their hands. But I'm so fed up with this, that I'm asking the baddies to kill me tonight. If I'm rotating to a baddie, I'm killing myself.

linki: llama, that is such bull. You and I know that voting record means nothing in this game, and the only way to do anything is by using your logic.

Great
Thank you Donners for actively trying to prevent this lynch

By the way, two more minutes

thellama73 wrote:I am also mystified as to how people are claiming that Russ must be bad if he's not a Donner. It's giving me the willies.

Do you think he's good? Or do you have no opinion of him?

thellama73 wrote:I am also mystified as to how people are claiming that Russ must be bad if he's not a Donner. It's giving me the willies.

If I say why, you'll accuse me of info dumping. Make up your mind. If you want an explanation I'll give it to you. But let's say I'm seeing the voting pattern

SVS, unless you convince some of us why it's not good to vote for Russ, you voting for someone else is not going to help anyone.

S~V~S wrote:@FZ~ It sounds to me like Ty is. He is acting like a totally different person, but he is off the poll.

Not sure how you can decide someone is bad based on what exactly? After two rotations? Haven't you been mistrusting Russ since Day 1?

I have almost no opinion of pretty much anyone that is actually on the poll. And since another rotation is imminent, I am not sure I want to take the time to find out tbh. I don't want to vote for either Zomba or Russ, so I need to do some quick rereading.

So your trust in Zomba and Russ if due to the fact you don't see a change in them from last day? Do you really expect people to be that obvious? If you had to choose between the two, who would you vote for?

Unless Russ is a Donner, he has to be bad

S~V~S wrote:Sorry for the AFK guys, for the second time in a week I was mafiaed out (not from this game) and needed to go do real things like balance my checkbook.

thellama73 wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

TySlayer wrote:Llama was too quick to trust FZ. I don't trust either of them, and if llama is actually saying FZs posts are HELPFUL, then there's trouble afoot.

I wish we could lunch you!

On this we agree.

Did someone go over to the dark side last rotation? Ty is acting differently. Llama, I am not sure you are right re Zomba. I have not particularly noticed any change of tone in Russ' posts though, and I did not particularly think he is bad.

Who do you think is bad?

And LC, who's the other baddie you're thinking about?

I'm voting Russ for now, because I need to go. I hope I'll be able to stop by before deadline, and I hope and LC answer me, because my choice might change based on that.

LC, can you tell me who you started out as?
Same goes for BR? who was with you?

Zomberella12 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:@Snowman- I don't think your vote for Bass makes any sense.

Neither do I

So who are you going to vote for?

Probably Russ, unless someone gives me a good reason why I shouldn't

Zomberella12 wrote:@Snowman- I don't think your vote for Bass makes any sense.

Neither do I

Roxy wrote:

FZ. wrote: MP, MM and Tricks were all civvies.

I meant Splints. I always get you mixed up.

Long Con wrote:

FZ. wrote:Since three people are off the lynch poll, I wonder if there's a pattern there. Say at least one person has to be on the poll from each group. If there are two people in the group left, one is off and one is on. If there are three, two are on, and one is off, etc'. Not sure what happens if only one person is in the group, but I assume they are still on. I also think we have 5 groups because Levina is killed. We have 10 players alive and 7 are on the poll. If we can figure out how many people in each group are dead, we can know if my theory is right. If so, 2 out of the seven people are baddies and it will be easier to figure out who they are. Does that sound crazy?

I like this idea. Are two Donners dead right now that we know of? I'd say there's four Civvies dead that I can feel sure of, and any that have been killed at night are not within my field of view... maybe a couple more Civs gone?

Ten out of seventeen players left, and... did we kill one baddie or two so far? If two, then the four Civvies dead that I'm thinking of, and one at night. I'd like to think that there's a couple of baddies represented on the poll at least.

We killed two baddies: Epi and Trice, once from each team. MP, MM and Tricks were all civvies. We don't know about Rico and Bloop. Rico started out as Levina, and while his power was rotated, I think he was still Levina when NK. So it leaves Bloop. I fear that by the time she was NK, she was a civ too. MP was a Breen for sure and MM was a Donner. I think we still have 3 Donners, unless Bloop became one. That would make the Donners have 1-2 players still on the poll. The Breens only lost one, unless Bloop was a breen, so they have 2-3 on the poll. That makes 3-5 players. At least two Reeds are dead, and 2 are left, one of them being on the poll. This leads us to 4-6 players so far. Since I think there's at least one person off the poll from a group of more than 1 player, I'm assuming Bloop was a civ when killed (I'm thinking a Breen), and we still have 2 baddies on the poll.

It's not me, nor is it Bass. I think that whoever knows they are the Donners, can pick one of the others as the baddie

thellama73 wrote:

Long Con wrote:I also do not understand this "who moved first" talk. After the first rotation, all my family's roles stayed the same, but there was a number of abilities changed. After the second rotation, everything changed... my family, my role, my ability, my teammates.

Is this not the experience that everyone else had?

That's the experience I had.

Regarding FZ's theory... I guess I am alone on this, but I never see the point in speculations based on nothing. I don't understand when Turnip Head does it, I don't understand when FZ does it. I can make up anything, call it a "theory" and assume it's correct. "Maybe one of the role secrets is that we've been given access to each others' accounts and the person posting as FZ is not really FZ!" I don't understand why people like to assume things for which we have no evidence, but a lot of people do it, so maybe I am the weird one.

You're shooting down every idea I have today. If we're going to base our votes on your ideas, we either come up with nothing at best, or at worst, lynch me and lose a civ.

But I'm kind of fed up with being the only one who's actually trying to find a way to find baddies. You don't want to go there, fine. I'm done. I'll make my decision before I go to bed.
No offence.

Long Con wrote:I also do not understand this "who moved first" talk. After the first rotation, all my family's roles stayed the same, but there was a number of abilities changed. After the second rotation, everything changed... my family, my role, my ability, my teammates.

Is this not the experience that everyone else had?

No, I just explained it above.

By the way, I think my theory works both in my case and in Bass and Ty's case (unless they are more than two and I missed it)

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:How are the names of my teammates from previous days going to help you, and how is you knowing them going to help me?

For instance, you were a Donner. Which one of the Donners was first to leave, which was the second, and so on. Since then, how many died, and in what role (or power if we're allowed to discuss it). If we find a pattern of who moved first and if one of them died, in what role they died, it can help us figure out if there's a pattern we can follow. Of course, assuming we're allowed to do so (and I'm assuming we are because Roxy said we can talk about previous roles).

As far as I know, all the role changes happen at the same time, so I still don't understand this "who moved first business."

I also don't think "give me all the information you have and then decide whether you trust me" is a very trustworthy thing to ask.

Well, for us, 3 players stayed in the same roles in the first rotation and only one switched and disappeared and we got a former baddie. I don't know if the other baddies from his group moved, but judging by the fact Bloop didn't die, I'm thinking maybe she didn't. I know she started out as a baddie. Then, someone killed one of my team and then I lost the previous baddie and another player. What I'm trying to say is, it didn't all happen at once.
But let me tell you, you are protesting a little too much. Not sure how much I trust you at this point.


Anyway, I want to try a new angle.
Since three people are off the lynch poll, I wonder if there's a pattern there. Say at least one person has to be on the poll from each group. If there are two people in the group left, one is off and one is on. If there are three, two are on, and one is off, etc'. Not sure what happens if only one person is in the group, but I assume they are still on. I also think we have 5 groups because Levina is killed. We have 10 players alive and 7 are on the poll. If we can figure out how many people in each group are dead, we can know if my theory is right. If so, 2 out of the seven people are baddies and it will be easier to figure out who they are. Does that sound crazy?


linki: I still don't know what you have to lose by doing it. but fair enough

thellama73 wrote:How are the names of my teammates from previous days going to help you, and how is you knowing them going to help me?

For instance, you were a Donner. Which one of the Donners was first to leave, which was the second, and so on. Since then, how many died, and in what role (or power if we're allowed to discuss it). If we find a pattern of who moved first and if one of them died, in what role they died, it can help us figure out if there's a pattern we can follow. Of course, assuming we're allowed to do so (and I'm assuming we are because Roxy said we can talk about previous roles).

thellama73 wrote:What do you mean I have nothing to lose? I cold be night killed tomorrow. I could be lynched the day after that. I have everything to lose, and the longer I go without fnding baddies, the more likely it is that I do lose.

I mean what do you have to lose by sharing information. Who you trust, who you don't (well, we know the answer to the latter), and who was on your team the day before this one (cause I already know who was on it in the beginning). After we share information, then decide if you trust me or not. In that sense, you have nothing to lose. But we have to do it before the day ends

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Black Rock wrote: No, the first rotation didn't do much at all and the second rotation was completely different. New group, new roles, new people. Nothing was the same. I don't see how a pattern could be seen in this. I got a group PM so I don't know what you mean by who moved first.

This is what I mean. There's no way for us to figure out how the role switches work, but FZ's statements and questions (who moved first?) either indicate she has info on the role changes (which I doubt) or she is pretending to.

What if I had a pact? And Roxy approved it?

What if you just want us to think you have one?

For crying out loud, I don't want you to think anything. I feel like I'm the only one trying to understand something beyond who is supposedly acting fishy this day, because it means nothing, as evident by your foolish suspicion of me. But maybe you're just doing a good job pretending to want what's best for the civvies. Whatever.

What makes you a civ in any way? Nothing. You want to prove you're a civ, why don't you try to work together with me. Decide later if you still don't believe me, but for now, you have nothing to lose if you're really a civ at this point.

thellama73 wrote:

Black Rock wrote: No, the first rotation didn't do much at all and the second rotation was completely different. New group, new roles, new people. Nothing was the same. I don't see how a pattern could be seen in this. I got a group PM so I don't know what you mean by who moved first.

This is what I mean. There's no way for us to figure out how the role switches work, but FZ's statements and questions (who moved first?) either indicate she has info on the role changes (which I doubt) or she is pretending to.

What if I had a pact? And Roxy approved it?

thellama73 wrote:Thank you for your get well wishes, FZ. You are a true friend. I'm sorry that I am finding you less and less trustworthy.

FZ. wrote:

Long Con wrote:Sounds overthinky to me. Do you have an idea of the pattern of role-rotation, FZ.?

I have some, but I'm not sure I should discuss it.
Can you tell me why you trusted BR, Splints and Russ up until this day, when it's obvious they were not your BTSC all days?

This post, for example, has me all tingly with worry. What better way to gain civ cred and ensure you're kept around for awhile than to insinuate you understand the game (which nobody else does) and can use it to the civs' advantage?

I don't mind you finding me suspicious, but in the beginning, I felt more sure of things because I had my BTSC and I knew we were looking out for one another, and I knew more people who were civvies. I also figured out who was with who (at least most of them). But every day things change, and now it's getting harder. I never said I knew the mechanics, I know what I know from all the rounds, and I'm pretty sure I figured out some of my original BTSC's new alignments, and like Bass which I strongly believe is a civ. There is also another thing I know, but I feel uncomfortable sharing it, because I'm screwing someone when doing so. If you want to find me suspicious for that, go ahead.

I did mean it, when I said that for the baddies, this is the best time to throw your team mate under the buss.

And I don't get the "I've always been a lone llama" when it's obvious you were a Donner and had BTSC with people. Question is, what are you now.

linki: BR, have you been able to see a pattern with how your rotations have gone in terms of who stayed, who moved first and so forth?

And get better soon, llama

Russ, LC and BR were the only reason some of us didn't vote for you in previous days. I assumed they were grouped together with you. Now BR says she didn't trust LC for those reasons, but others, Which if I'm reading right, means that BR, you and Splints started out together and LC was not on your group. This makes me think that my evaluation was wrong and LC started out as Epi's team mate and BR was wrong, but I guess it doesn't matter any more

Before I share anything, I want you all to tell me if anyone had some sort of a pact with their team. Not asking you to tell me what it was or who was on it, just if there was anything. I think at this stage, it's crucial to know if people are defending previous buddies or not, if we want the civvies to win

Hey, I just realized something. llama suggested that maybe Splints took the fall for Bloops because she got that power even if she wasn't a baddie. But Roxy's story says that she was the ninja, so it means that theory is wrong. In that case, I have no idea why Splints died, and there must be more secrets

Long Con wrote:Sounds overthinky to me. Do you have an idea of the pattern of role-rotation, FZ.?

I have some, but I'm not sure I should discuss it.
Can you tell me why you trusted BR, Splints and Russ up until this day, when it's obvious they were not your BTSC all days?

Snowman wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I do trust ty.

Hmmm.....fine. But what if you both are baddies?

My thoughts exactly.

I doubt it. While they may rotate next round, if they're working together, chances are only one of them will, and that would leave then other one as a known baddie to the other. At this stage, I think the best option for the two baddies, is to go after one another, especially if they don't have the power of one dying before the other. That way, if they get the other killed, chances of them rotating to a civ role are higher, and they improve the civvies condition (and their own).

Zomberella12 wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I do trust ty.

Hmmm.....fine. But what if you both are baddies?

@FZ - I get your theory about Russ. Plus he seemed a little upset about the game turning into a 'who-defends-who' situation. That would make sense if he was Hunger and didn't have anyone to defend him. (Other than a pact - which I think was suggested by MP on the thread).

I'm still waiting to find out if Bloops was Wasatch or a civvie? That will tell us how many baddies are left.

I don't think we're going to find out who she was, since it's a NK.
Do you think she was still a baddie?

Also, you seem to think Russ is the lone baddie. Any thoughts on who the other connected baddies are?

S~V~S wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Snowman wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Also, what do people think of FZ? I feel like she's been skulking along under the radar more than she usually does.

I think FZ is legit, and I'm 90% sure Zomberella is too, unless something changed recently. I'm leaning toward Ty.

What is the current Baddie vs. Civvie count, does anyone know?

But Bloop was going to die anyway, so was she an accidental kill that happened when a baddie targeted someone else, or does one baddie group target the other?

Why don't you trust Ty?
S~V~S who are you not trusting now?

I am not sure yet.
Do you think we should trust Ty?

And FZ, what is your idea? Can you discuss without implementing?

I see everyone implementing. When people say who they trust, we all know it's not because of their stellar baddie hunting skills. So this game is nothing like a regular mafia game. I guess the thing that's making it more balanced for the baddies. is what happened with Bloop last day. I guess that apart from the actual killing, the civvies and baddie powers move around.

I wonder if people made pacts before the first rotation started. Like we're not lynching each other until there's one baddie left, or more complicated ones, like giving signs. The way I see it, BR, LC, Russ and Splints were all defending each other last day, but there is no way they all started out together, and I don't get how they could have been four. I think Splints joined BR and LC later on, and I don't know what happened to Russ. The fact they were still protecting him makes me think there was a pact there, because if they stayed in the same family, he had to move, and they couldn't have known what his alignment was without having some sort of code.

Now LC is willing to go after Russ. I wonder what changed.

So do you want to discuss logic puzzle or not? Because I have some thoughts, but if you think it's not fair, I won't go there

Sorry, for not being here for a while. I had a rough few days, and then Fridays, I'm always not around.

And llama, I'm a little disappointed in you for suggesting that a less active FZ is a bad one. Believe me, and ask whoever has played with me, when I'm a baddie, I am just as active and giving it my best as I am, when a civ.

That said, the nature of this game makes the baddies post less and keep a low profile, so I get the concern.

I think that the bloop kill was actually a safe way to go if you want a civ down, because after what went down last round, the chances of her staying in the same role were low, and with the roles rotating like that, the baddies didn't know who would be able to save who...if there's even a saver in the game. But maybe whoever killed her was afraid of her NK. No idea.


Where are we going this day? The rotations made it very hard to know who to go after.


SVS, do you still trust llama?

Russ, I have no idea why you don't trust me, and the only reason I am not voting you is because you have a few people vouching for you. So I'm voting Bloops. I thought she was baddie last day, and at this point it doesn't look like it's changed.

Got to go

thellama73 wrote:Voting for Zombrella. I feel like she has been directing the thread a lot more today, and I sense manipulation.

linki FZ: Yeah, sorry. Work has been really busy lately. I'll try to do better tomorrow. I don't know how Roxy would handle that. We should ask her.

linki again: I just told you.

Well, at this point, Zomb is the last person I suspect. She's being just as aggressive as last day, and I feel like she's genuinely trying to find baddies.

Why'd you vote Zomb, llama?

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Is there any chance llama came back as something other than his role?

There's always a chance, but this did not happen.

I was starting to get a little worried about you. Glad you're here.

Do you think Roxy would let us know if Rico switched to Hunger and was NK, that they were eliminated?

It looks as if a threesome became a four. Got Levina's powers and I don't know what else. Then, a foursome became something else. Two died, one rezzed and I have no idea what happened to their powers and if all stayed where they are. Something is off there and I can't put my finger on it

Is there any chance llama came back as something other than his role?

fingersplints wrote:Do you think they are civvies?

I thought so, but if all are civvies, something is not making sense.

fingersplints wrote:I think that Russ is a civvie.

Do you also think LC and BR are civvies?

llama, do you have any reason to trust Bloop?
What are people's opinion of Russ?

BR, what are your thoughts at the moment? What do you think about Splints?

fingersplints wrote:

FZ. wrote:I really don't understand what why it was so urgent to kill MP so early in the day. We were doing so good before that. Now we have 3 civvies dead. Unless Rico became Hunger during the night, but I doubt we wouldn't know they've been eliminated.

I don't see MP as a confirmed civvie. He could have been bad.

The story says he was Peggy Breen.

I really don't understand what why it was so urgent to kill MP so early in the day. We were doing so good before that. Now we have 3 civvies dead. Unless Rico became Hunger during the night, but I doubt we wouldn't know they've been eliminated.

Black Rock wrote:

FZ. wrote:Obviously Reed got Levina's power and used the third kill. And they killed Rico for nothing...

Third kill? I knew about one but did I miss another one?

Wasn't Epi killed by Levina?

Obviously Reed got Levina's power and used the third kill. And they killed Rico for nothing...

What the hell is wrong with Reed?

RIP MP