The Syndicate

Hey, just wanted to say I'm sorry for dropping out of the game, but I'm really sick and so is my daughter, so I'm just literally exhausted and can't keep up with the game. Hope you all have a great game. Thank you Sig for replacing me

Sorry, this is a bad "day" for me.

Look, I'm not bad, nor have I played an easy game, zebra. If you want to lynch me, do it. I have to much in RL now to defend myself, and won't be back until the end of the day.
I've explained too many times why I followed Wilgy and why I unvoted Diiny after I realized it was fake. If you don't believe me, there's nothing I can do about it. I think when it comes to trying to understand what Wilgy was doing, and progressing the discussion around that, I did more than anyone here to try to figure it out (but that's my opinion).

I'm voting for Wilgy, because now that I know he was faking, things have changed for me. I don't have time to engage in discussion with people to come up with someone I fee strong enough to be bad. I'm back and forth on Floyd and JJJ, and I feel that Wilgy is the best choice. Go back and find the post where I explained why and don't say something which isn't true.

Wilgy basically had nothing to lose from his gambit as mafia. He took no risk at all. He came out looking really good from it, and he said he'll answer my points but he hasn't. Since I don't have time to wait any longer, I'm voting him. If he does answer and his answers feel legit, don't vote for him, so he'll only have my vote. I can't do better than this.

I'm out

I'm barely going to be around today. After reading responses, I'm going to put my vote on Wilgy for now. If anything interesting happens by the time I have to leave, I'll consider changing it.

Sorry for the lack of contribution this day. I have a sick child at home with a very high temperature.

I read back and will try to say something at least.

I still don't think Diiny is bad.

I think I'm starting to agree with Epi on many things. FIrst, Floyd, why is he voting so early every day? This is something I think baddies, especially new players tend to do more often to not have to deal with consequences later. Second, though I said the game was getting worse, it didn't feel real to me coming from Floyd.

Then there's Epi's case on JJJ. It looks quite compelling. Not to mention jjj seemed to misunderstand me a lot yesterday, which I thought was weird, but let it go (mostly because I thought it was me not being clear enough).

Finally, while I'm not sold on this, I think it needs to be brought up:
I think Wilgy can easily be scum. Who had the most to gain from his stunt? He did.
It makes him look like the civviest of civs. First, he's "baiting" others with his gambit. Then he did the analysis of who said what. That is priceless if you're a baddie. You get the credit for doing such a thorough job trying to find baddies. Everyone replied in some way, didn't they? Now, all he had to do was find things he could use.
Not to mention, this was a great way to draw out the real cop, like someone else mentioned.
Notice, he moved his vote from Diiny to Enrique even though he said he prefers to vote for Diiny. Enrique was the one who was the most suspicious of him.

This game is getting worse by the minute

I need to reread people, and I don't have time for it now.

Epi, why are you so focused on Floyd? Was he bad in the game you hosted or was it another game?

Yeah, it's not just you, JJJ.

I need to go to sleep too. I'll be here for only a few more minutes because I'm still waiting for a call. If anyone wants to ask something or discuss. I don't feel like Diiny is bad, but after last game, I have no idea what my feelings are worth. For all I care, you can all lynch me too. I feel like I'm speaking a different language than other people this game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
FZ. wrote:I see what you're saying, but why is it better than just giving one name you trust? If I understood correctly, the idea of the fake peeks was to throw off the mafia while allowing the cop to leave his crumbs. Is that not right?
It's a means of expressing trust for another player. That trust might be born of a typical read, or it might be born of an actual peek. It's imperative that the cop's peeks be plainly known to everyone in the event of his/her demise to prevent errant lynches on people who've been ID'd town. It's also imperative that the cop be able to leave that information in the thread without self-exposure.

Seriously, give me a hand here.

But if so, what I'm suggesting is exactly the same. Do you read what I say? How about you give me a hand here?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
FZ. wrote:Can I say that I'm now really not a fan of the fake peeks strategy? I think all it's doing it diverting conversation and attention from genuine feelings. We could just as well decide that every day, each of us names a person they trust. If the cop dies, we know who he trusted without him outing himself during the game. And we don't have to suffer the pain of your silly fake peeks.

By the way, wouldn't it be in the mafia's best interest to keep the cop alive as long as the other townies don't know he's the cop? That way, the civvies can't narrow things down...
It is never in the mafia's best interest to keep the cop alive. In the base champs setup (9 vanilla town, 1 cop, 3 mafia), the lifespan of the cop is often the deciding factor in who wins the game. Eliminating him is priority number one for any mafia team with experience in this setup because too many peeks from him/her can literally preclude them from winning mathematically.

I can understand the peeks being annoying, but I encourage you to give it a chance. My initial reaction was negative too, but I've seen how these games can be blown wide open with the objective evidence they produce. It isn't a perfect method, but it's proven and I support it.

I see what you're saying, but why is it better than just giving one name you trust? If I understood correctly, the idea of the fake peeks was to throw off the mafia while allowing the cop to leave his crumbs. Is that not right?

Can I say that I'm now really not a fan of the fake peeks strategy? I think all it's doing it diverting conversation and attention from genuine feelings. We could just as well decide that every day, each of us names a person they trust. If the cop dies, we know who he trusted without him outing himself during the game. And we don't have to suffer the pain of your silly fake peeks.

By the way, wouldn't it be in the mafia's best interest to keep the cop alive as long as the other townies don't know he's the cop? That way, the civvies can't narrow things down...

Since I have no reason to find Diiny bad now, it paints everyone else in a different colour. I'll have to read back, but I don't have time. Even Wilgy needs to be re-examined

I'm going to try writing it again, because I made too many mistakes:

"Basically, I felt that as a baddie, Wilgy had zero reasons to act the way he did, assuming he'd go though with it to the lynch, whereas as a civ, I thought he'd put a stop to it way before.
I have to say, and you can believe me or not, that if I were a cop that got a red peek in this setting, I might have done exactly that, trying to confuse the mafia and making them hesitate targeting me for a NK, at the risk I might be saved by the doctor. In my experience, scum pick up on hints way faster than townies do because they know what to look for, so if there was really a red peek, and I would only try to hint it, I think they would find it, NK me, and get me out of the way without me making sure a baddie went down before. I thought there's a merit to what assumed Wilgy was trying to do.
The fact that I saw Diiny as civ other than that means nothing to me after my last game of almost saving all baddies.

"

There, I hope it's easier to understand.

linki: I think his reaction to Wilgy after his reveal, is what I'd expect of a frustrated civ. Plus, like I said, there was never anything that felt that scummy to me in the first place.

The if in the first line should be omitted

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
FZ. wrote:Wilgy, I think that's a shit ass way to get to the end of the day.

If you're not lying now, you should have ended up this fiasco way sooner. I think it twisted things, but hopefully, something good will come out of it eventually. I didn't think Diiny is bad before you came along with your gambit, and it coloured everything for me, so I'm taking my vote off. If it comes down to me against him in terms of votes, I'll put it on him again, but if not, I won't be voting him. The way he's handled everything today makes me feel good about him, and you were the real reason I voted for him.

Now, looking back at everything that has transpired, the person that worries me the most is Epi. At the risk of alienating the only person that seems to defend me this game, there was something about his defence that felt like he knew defending me might come handy later on, while not really getting involved in the Diiny lynch either way. I also think the Floyd lynch is too easy, but I was too engrossed in the Diiny debacle to pursue another line.

So for now, I'm moving my vote to Epi.
While I haven't voted for you, I have placed you low in my rainbow so I'll try to explain my gut. I want you to have the chance to influence my read of you in direct dialogue. I think this post displays pretty clearly the concern I have with you -- that you've seen any glimmer of town in Diiny's behavior but were still willing to join his bandwagon based on a very dubious claim of a red peek by DrWilgy. This seemed opportunistic to me, almost transparently so I admit, and I struggled to reconcile it with a town mindset.

Could you try to describe why you felt there was any chance of honesty in Doc's conduct?

Basically, I felt that if as a baddie, Wilgy had zero reasons to act the way he did, assuming he'd go though with it, and as a civ, I thought he'd put a stop to it way before. I have to say, and you can believe me or not, that if I were a cop that got a red peek in this setting, I might have done exactly that, trying to confuse the mafia and making them hesitate to try and NK me for the chance I might be saved by the doctor. In my experience, scum pick up on hints way faster than townies do because they know what to look for, so if there was really a red peek, and I would only try to hint it, I think they would NK and get me out of the way. I thought there's a merit to what assumed Wilgy was trying to do.
The fact that I saw Diiny as civ other than that means nothing to me after my last game of almost saving all baddies.

Wilgy, I think that's a shit ass way to get to the end of the day.

If you're not lying now, you should have ended up this fiasco way sooner. I think it twisted things, but hopefully, something good will come out of it eventually. I didn't think Diiny is bad before you came along with your gambit, and it coloured everything for me, so I'm taking my vote off. If it comes down to me against him in terms of votes, I'll put it on him again, but if not, I won't be voting him. The way he's handled everything today makes me feel good about him, and you were the real reason I voted for him.

Now, looking back at everything that has transpired, the person that worries me the most is Epi. At the risk of alienating the only person that seems to defend me this game, there was something about his defence that felt like he knew defending me might come handy later on, while not really getting involved in the Diiny lynch either way. I also think the Floyd lynch is too easy, but I was too engrossed in the Diiny debacle to pursue another line.

So for now, I'm moving my vote to Epi.

motel room wrote:
Enrique wrote:
motel room wrote:
Enrique wrote:
motel room wrote:
Enrique wrote:u first tiger
right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.
I want to hear YOUR opinion on Diiny.

For the record, I've always been perfectly okay with a Diiny lynch. Wilgy did look more dangerous for a bit, but really, as long as we get a bad guy today there's no rush. Lynching DrWilgy is taking too big a risk atm when we know so little about what he's trying to do.

I think Diiny is scum. I think DrWilgy most likely is but until Diiny is gone, we don't want to lynch him.
edgy as it may be I'm not as certain Diiny is scum

Why are you suspicious of me like you said?
The way you're dodging questions and overall saying as little as possible, misplaced faith on Wilgy, vote on FZ. You haven't given me one reason to trust you.
That's a lot of things to be dodging that I've done made a stand on. Not buying it.

My vote on FZ was from the weird defensiveness of that wager she dropped so early on. Will it stay? Let's see.

Why did you vote Diiny in the first place?

My wager was because zebra was annoying me. I admit. Sorry I can't stay cool when people are so full of shit. It's a bad habit I'm trying to lose, but no success yet.

Out of all the votes on me, Sorsha's seems the most opportunistic. I said that the exact reason I'm choosing to trust Wilgy's information is the fact that in the game she's talking about, I almost saved the baddie because I was looking anywhere but the obvious information. It was a bad game on my part, but in my defence, the roles weren't as simple as this game. The fact that Sorsha chose to ignore my post and just latch on my other posts, makes me

her big time.

Now I'm really off to bed. I can fight with anyone tomorrow... :P

linki: zebra, I just hope for the town's sake, that people are smarter than you.

Good night

a2thezebra wrote:
linki - My prize will be my part in leading town to victory.

Coward

a2thezebra wrote:
FZ. wrote:Zebra, I'm going to say this one last time, if you still think I'm bad, it's your problem. I'm done defending myself:

1. My ping of Diiny was not enough to make me vote for him. Which left me with Wilgy.
2. He's either lying or he's not. Duh
3. Unlike you, I'm saying that unless he's a crazy crazy man, he isn't faking. I've given all the logical reasoning I can to show you all why I think he's not lying, which is why I ended up following him and voted Diiny.
4. I've tried every possible way I know to make sure he's not a "crazy bastard" just trying to make sure everyone follows him without solid reasons, manipulating them into believing he does.
1. What's that? You were pinged by Diiny? This is new, originally regarding Diiny's back-and-forth with me you never used the word "ping".
2. Duh indeed. So let's trust him for no reason!
3. Again, this doesn't excuse your deliberate lack of interest in demonstrating any thoughts of Diiny that go beyond Wilgy's claim.
4. Again, defending your reasoning for trusting Wilgy is not the same as defending that this trust is not scum-motivated. In other words, you're only done defending yourself because you never really started.

linki - My prize will be my part in leading town to victory.

\
1. So what if I never used the word ping? I'm telling you that all it was was something small that I noticed, which wasn't enough for anything. Call it what the freaking hell you want. My first post of the game was about how I didn't get what the hell Diiny was talking about, but I don't know if that's enough to make me suspicious of him. I continued to say that while that is so, I find what Wilgy is saying interesting and that was what I focused on.

2. No, I trusted him for what I thought was a completely good reason: I call it "what are the odds of him faking that claim"
3. FFS, I didn't have any thoughts on Diiny other than what I've stated. Do you want me to fake some just for you?
4. My number 4 was to point out that I was trying with all my power to get to the bottom of things by questioning Wilgy and trying to understand his motivation.

All this said, I was sure the day ends today for some reason.With another full day left, maybe Wilgy thinks he hasn't taken it too far yet. If he is lying, there's still another day to fix it, so it would lessen the bastardness level :P

zebra, care to place a bet on me being scum? If you win, name your prize

Epi, you have conveniently remained uninvolved in this conversation. What do you think about it?

Zebra, I'm going to say this one last time, if you still think I'm bad, it's your problem. I'm done defending myself:

1. My ping of Diiny was not enough to make me vote for him. Which left me with Wilgy.
2. He's either lying or he's not. Duh
3. Unlike you, I'm saying that unless he's a crazy crazy man, he isn't faking. I've given all the logical reasoning I can to show you all why I think he's not lying, which is why I ended up following him and voted Diiny.
4. I've tried every possible way I know to make sure he's not a "crazy bastard" just trying to make sure everyone follows him without solid reasons, manipulating them into believing he does.

I'm going to sleep. I'm kind of frustrated and annoyed by people here, sorry. Might as well go before I become rude.

a2thezebra wrote:
FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:And I need to make it clear and more vocal that there's a difference between being wrong for being wrong and being wrong for being bad.
WTF does that supposed to mean?
You're only trying to justify your Diiny vote as being based on Wilgy's claim because it's easier to pull off as genuine than faking a reason why you think he is actually bad or at least inconspicuously parroting everyone else that does.
This is ridiculous. Either Wilgy is telling the truth or not. If he is, then I find trusting him to be the best thing to do. Since you're not voting Wilgy, I'm assuming you think he's lying about knowing for a fact Diiny is bad. If that's the case, you should be a lot more worried about him than you are me, but don't let logic confuse you.
It is not ridiculous, and you demonstrated why my suspicion of you is warranted in this very post. Your trust in Wilgy is an act. If I disagreed with it and nothing more then that's what I would be talking about, but I'm not talking about that. You say that if Wilgy is telling the truth, then trusting him is the best thing to do. Right. If he's telling the truth. It doesn't make sense to trust someone if you're not sure whether or not they're telling the truth, yet not only do you trust him, you're not even trying to make the case here that it's more likely that he is in fact telling the truth than not. Sure there's been discussion that you've been a part of as to what his motivations could be, but at the end of the day you're willing to admit that you don't know. I agree; either Wilgy is telling the truth or not. I'm undecided on the matter, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm not interested in the wine overload. If you were saying that you're willing to trust Wilgy because you think he is telling the truth, that would be different. If you were saying that you're not willing to trust Wilgy because you think he isn't, that would also be different. But you're putting your trust in him despite not knowing that he is being truthful or not, and that's scummy. Here's why.
FZ. wrote:Whoa, you people managed to talk a lot while I was sleeping. It's a good thing it's internet pages and not real paper. So many trees would die...

I have no idea what the hell Diiny wants from zebra. At some point, I lost interest in that conversation. I'm not sure I find Diiny suspicious for that, but this whole Wilgy Diiny craziness is interesting.

DrWilgy wrote:Also, for those of you who think I wouldn't use my check on Diiny vs someone else, Diiny killed me in TH. That was my reason for the check.

Ok Diiny. Since you can't get the fact that I checked you, what do you think of MP's plan?
Last game I was the cop and MP didn't ask me who I wanted to target on day 0, I just got a name and alliance. This is a MM game, so I'm not sure they work the same though.

But if Wilgy is the cop, I can't see him outing himself so blatantly, unless he figures that one in the bag is worth the risk, and if he tries to hint with subtlety, the mafia will know who he is anyway. This way, if there's a doctor out there, he'll know who to protect.
Not sure I buy this theory myself, but the other possibility is that Wilgy is just trying to stir the game and encourage conversation. In any case, I like it a lot better than the Diiny-zebra back and forth
This is your first post. You express a lack of interest in my back-and-forth with me and Diiny as well as some waffliness about whether his responses are alignment-indicative...the same ones you lost interest in. Right. This pinged me a bit, but by itself it's far from damning. I think what's more worth noting is that this is the only post where you even mention Diiny until your fourth post where you decide for vote for him based on Wilgy's claim, and even in this post, you openly express seeing more value in analyzing Wilgy's big bowl of WIFOM. Considering that you're trusting Wilgy enough to vote for Diiny, you would think that you would at least show some amount of interest as to why and how Diiny might be bad, yet you are not only disinterested in this apparently confirmed scum's content, you are actively ignorant of it. And then there's the post that more or less confirmed your alignment:
FZ. wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:I did say he is my night 2 check didn't I?
Sorry, I missed that. I'll be voting Diiny for now. It sucks to go out this way, so I feel for him if he's really mafia, but I think this is a chance we need to take.
Even after your unwarranted trust in Wilgy, you still express waffliness in Diiny's alignment as you vote for him. A chance we need to take? That's what this boils down to. You're trying to give the impression that your faith in Wilgy is justified not because you actually think it is, but because that justifies your otherwise completely unjustified vote.

This is bullshit. I think I've made it pretty clear why I'm choosing to trust Wilgy. I think that all your theories make no sense, and it makes no sense for him to make something like this up. The more we discussed it, the less it made sense for him to fake it. His last two posts gave me a little scare, but his last one made me feel better again. Unless he's a crazy bastard, I don't see how this is fake, hence I'm following his vote.

You on the other hand, I have no idea what you're doing.

linki: Yeah, I'm an eager to buss baddie, you caught me

DrWilgy wrote:
FZ. wrote:Wilgy, I think that if you're lying and you're not bad, it is seriously fucked up to lynch someone like you're doing now.
Even if I did think Diiny was bad?

You never gave any reason to why you thought he was bad, and I'd get it if it went just so far, but most of the day has revolved around this issue. I think it's coloured every decision made in the game. If you were lying as a civ, and a civ is lynched, the next people to get lynched are civvies as well, I'm pretty sure about it, and we end up getting 3 civvies dead by the end of next day. I think that's a lousy risk.
Please tell me if you were lying. I think the "scheme" has been going long enough.

Wilgy, I think that if you're lying and you're not bad, it is seriously fucked up to lynch someone like you're doing now.

a2thezebra wrote:This is most likely because he's your teammate but it's still a valid hypothesis even if he's somehow not.

I must be really dense today, because I swear to god, I'm not understanding half the players this game.

Two options I've seen brought up:

1. Enrique: Wilgy and Diiny are bad. The former is throwing the latter under the bus by fake claiming something that the real cop knows is not true.

2. Zebra: Wilgy is lying, and taking the most stupid risk I've ever seen someone take (it's not like he can use some excuse that his actions got redirected or whatever) which will be discovered the minute Diiny is lynched, and I'm following him because it's easier to show I'm trusting him instead of finding a real reason to suspect someone.

I'd like to call at least one of you bad, but these theories seem so far fetched that I can't possibly think a baddie would be that crazy to try and pin them on people.

a2thezebra wrote:
FZ. wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:And I need to make it clear and more vocal that there's a difference between being wrong for being wrong and being wrong for being bad.
WTF does that supposed to mean?
You're only trying to justify your Diiny vote as being based on Wilgy's claim because it's easier to pull off as genuine than faking a reason why you think he is actually bad or at least inconspicuously parroting everyone else that does.

This is ridiculous. Either Wilgy is telling the truth or not. If he is, then I find trusting him to be the best thing to do. Since you're not voting Wilgy, I'm assuming you think he's lying about knowing for a fact Diiny is bad. If that's the case, you should be a lot more worried about him than you are me, but don't let logic confuse you.

a2thezebra wrote:And I need to make it clear and more vocal that there's a difference between being wrong for being wrong and being wrong for being bad.

WTF does that supposed to mean?

DrWilgy wrote:What makes you suspish of MP?

What worries me a little about him is the way he was asking questions yesterday, but it didn't really feel like he was involved. That said, like I already said in my last post, I expect more from MP. I think it was Epi (or maybe I'm confusing him with someone else), who caught bad MP because he posted more than he did when good. He might have learned his lesson from that, but I don't feel uninvolved MP is a sign of anything. We just need more from him period.

linki Enrique: Oh, I get it. I kept thinking you were saying I was outing the doctor. If Wilgy is bad and throwing a bad Diiny under the bus, then if I were the cop and found out Wilgy is bad, I would risk letting everyone know somehow and bring the town very close to victory with only one more baddie standing.

Enrique wrote:
Diiny had 3 votes on him before Wilgy conveniently "outed" him. There was never talk of anyone else. It was always Diiny.

It was very early in the day. I don't really think it was enough for a lynch.
Besides, I'm not reading Wilgy as bad at all at the moment.

Enrique wrote:You really want the Doctor* out. You know, to paint a completely unnecessary target on his back before he has any useful info.

Diiny had 3 votes on him before Wilgy conveniently "outed" him. There was never talk of anyone else. It was always Diiny.

How the hell will I out the doctor? Are the baddies psychic? The doctor doesn't have to do anything but save. No need to talk in the thread. I am seriously not getting you.

And for some reason, I'm confused by the resemblance between Sorsha's and your avi

linki: I guess Mac. I think MP would try harder as a baddie (but those are my expectations of him).

a2thezebra wrote:
FZ. wrote:And yes, I admit that other than Diiny's weird back and forth with zebra, which I just didn't get where he was coming from with it, but wasn't nearly enough for me to think he's bad, the only reason I'm voting him is Wilgy's word. What's wrong with that?
Everything.

If this is the kind of game where info dumping is allowed, then by all means, you bet I'm going to use that information.

Enrique wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Wilgy has a 3.85% chance of being a cop.
Yeah, but if you calculate into it, the risk he's taking when saying it, I think it's a lot higher. I think that a fake peek, as JJJ describes, will usually be more subtle, and probably include a civ read and not a mafia read, because the latter would be much easier for the baddies to figure out.

linki: I don't remember Diiny going down anyway, as you claim he was, but maybe I'm wrong. If the real cop is out there, it's going to be pretty easy for him to solve this question.
You really want him out, don't you?

If he's bad, don't you?

DrWilgy wrote:What makes you think Diiny is going out one way or another?

According to Enrique, he was going out even before you came out with your claim.
And I don't know who I would have voted for. There's Mac of course. I didn't buy his gung ho attitude toward Diiny. And I'm worried about MP's and JJJ's quietness, but as Epi taught me last game we played together, quietness is not always a bad thing

All in all, I think this was a stupid risk to take if you're the mafia. I think being blatant about being the cop might turn out to be a smart move because unlike regular classic games like this, the option of a doctor makes the mafia hesitate with targeting the obvious choice and risking not taking someone down.
I also imagine trying the plan Enrique suggested would be suicidal as well when you know there's a real cop out there who can then check Wilgy out (just to make sure it wasn't just a townie fluke and an amazing fake claim), and take another baddie out immediately after, leaving one baddie left.

Epignosis wrote:Wilgy has a 3.85% chance of being a cop.

Yeah, but if you calculate into it, the risk he's taking when saying it, I think it's a lot higher. I think that a fake peek, as JJJ describes, will usually be more subtle, and probably include a civ read and not a mafia read, because the latter would be much easier for the baddies to figure out.

linki: I don't remember Diiny going down anyway, as you claim he was, but maybe I'm wrong. If the real cop is out there, it's going to be pretty easy for him to solve this question.

And yes, I admit that other than Diiny's weird back and forth with zebra, which I just didn't get where he was coming from with it, but wasn't nearly enough for me to think he's bad, the only reason I'm voting him is Wilgy's word. What's wrong with that?

Enrique wrote:Diiny was going one way or another, as far as I can tell you're the only one voting for him because Wilgy said so.

He's hooking the doctor. That's true. You don't need to be good to do that. If the Doctor protects a scummie, that gives them free reign to kill whoever they want that night, plus the cred of a claimed role.

DrWilgy is definitely lying.

Not sure I get what you're saying. If Diiny is not bad, the doctor, assuming there is one, does not protect Wilgy, and we all know Wilgy is bad. What the hell did he gain from that other than getting a civ lynched on the first day which is most likely to happen anyway with the odds. Don't see it.
Unless you're saying he's bad and Diiny is bad too, and they're trying to make Wilgy look better and gain credit. Again, why?

Enrique wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Diiny wrote:I'm not going to be able to post any more and I really shouldn't be posting this because I have a deadline in four and a half hours and I'm not done yet. But basically Wilgy's up to no good. He's left it too late for this to be some kind of ruse with the intention of seeing how fast people bandwagon onto me. That said, it's probably telling how quickly some people bandwagoned onto me. Bottom line: I'm town, and wilgy's trying to get me killed.
I agree that he's kept it for too long too, so what would he have to gain if he were bad? That's why I think he's telling the truth.

Zebra, last time ignored an obvious hint I almost saved a baddie. Trying to correct that and figure out what's going on. If Wilgy tells me he was faking it, I'll take my vote off, no matter how it makes people view me. As of now, my vote is staying put.
What would he have to gain if he were good?

What I suggested before, or what he said:
That getting one baddie on the first night will postpone LYLO
That if there's a doctor, he/she knows who to save and make the mafia hesitate before killing him, whereas when he only hints, the mafia might be on to him before the townies are, and we lose him early on without getting a mafia member dead.

linki: Because I don't see why you would think I was bad unless you were trying to see how people would react to a fake claim

DrWilgy wrote:Diiny before you go, do tell me what you think of MP's plan.

I agree with Zebra, FZ you are bad.

Why? Are you saying you were lying?

Diiny wrote:I'm not going to be able to post any more and I really shouldn't be posting this because I have a deadline in four and a half hours and I'm not done yet. But basically Wilgy's up to no good. He's left it too late for this to be some kind of ruse with the intention of seeing how fast people bandwagon onto me. That said, it's probably telling how quickly some people bandwagoned onto me. Bottom line: I'm town, and wilgy's trying to get me killed.

I agree that he's kept it for too long too, so what would he have to gain if he were bad? That's why I think he's telling the truth.

Zebra, last time ignored an obvious hint I almost saved a baddie. Trying to correct that and figure out what's going on. If Wilgy tells me he was faking it, I'll take my vote off, no matter how it makes people view me. As of now, my vote is staying put.

DrWilgy wrote:I did say he is my night 2 check didn't I?

Sorry, I missed that. I'll be voting Diiny for now. It sucks to go out this way, so I feel for him if he's really mafia, but I think this is a chance we need to take.

DrWilgy wrote:
FZ. wrote:Wilgy, can you please walk us through the logic behind risking yor survival by revealing your alledged role?
Or is it just a fake peek (which the mafia would know about, so I'm ruling it out while I write)?

If it was just a test, what have you learned?
Here are the possibilities that I considered when I decided to day 1 reveal:
1. Mafia would have to believe Im cop.
2. Doc may be in play, and the chance of there being a doctor means mafia may have to play around my possible protection.
3. A day 1 baddie lynch sets the LYLO counter back by at least 2 mislynches. We can't have what happened last game happen again, and this should put the odds in our favor.

All that considered though, I don't think that doc should protect me tonight.

Thanks. Fair enough. If you are right, Doesn't Mac look very scummy to you for jumping on Diiny like knowing a fellow scum is going down?

Wilgy, can you please walk us through the logic behind risking yor survival by revealing your alledged role?
Or is it just a fake peek (which the mafia would know about, so I'm ruling it out while I write)?

If it was just a test, what have you learned?

Whoa, you people managed to talk a lot while I was sleeping. It's a good thing it's internet pages and not real paper. So many trees would die...

I have no idea what the hell Diiny wants from zebra. At some point, I lost interest in that conversation. I'm not sure I find Diiny suspicious for that, but this whole Wilgy Diiny craziness is interesting.

DrWilgy wrote:Also, for those of you who think I wouldn't use my check on Diiny vs someone else, Diiny killed me in TH. That was my reason for the check.

Ok Diiny. Since you can't get the fact that I checked you, what do you think of MP's plan?

Last game I was the cop and MP didn't ask me who I wanted to target on day 0, I just got a name and alliance. This is a MM game, so I'm not sure they work the same though.

But if Wilgy is the cop, I can't see him outing himself so blatantly, unless he figures that one in the bag is worth the risk, and if he tries to hint with subtlety, the mafia will know who he is anyway. This way, if there's a doctor out there, he'll know who to protect.
Not sure I buy this theory myself, but the other possibility is that Wilgy is just trying to stir the game and encourage conversation. In any case, I like it a lot better than the Diiny-zebra back and forth

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