The Syndicate

Turnip Head wrote:BR's death upset me the most And LC's lynch was like the Red Wedding of mafia. So fucked up on so many levels.

linki:

Matt wrote:Turnip - What was the final vote count the day Draconus was lynched?

I remember, we were thinking it was actually 5 - 5, but with FZ's vote manip out there, I'm just curious.

I don't remember, but I think it was a tie and Sorsha broke it against Draco.

Lc's lynch was my worst decision (along with voting Sorsha instead of Matt like I initially wanted). I felt so bad about it

Matt wrote:FZ - Did you get the message saying "juliets has btsc" ? We figured you did, because you were asking about juliets shortly afterwards in thread.

Turnip - What was the final vote count the day Draconus was lynched?

I remember, we were thinking it was actually 5 - 5, but with FZ's vote manip out there, I'm just curious.

The day Drac was lynched was amazing. So psyched with that reveal haha.

I did. I didn't know if it were baddies or someone else who sent it, so I kept asking people what they thought to get reactions and see if I can find any baddies. Didn't work.
By the way, not that I'm trying to take MM's win from him, but man, if he'd just trusted me more than he trusted you when we first started fighting in the last day, it would have ended so differently But I can't blame him. You did a good job on him, not to mention I fell for it later too.

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:DH wanted to lynch me so bad but he just couldn't do it.

That four way lynch still keeps me awake at night.

Never have I been so frustrated at being able to play only on my phone lol.

Tell me about it. I was frustrated, period.
By the way, when you were NK, I was devastated. Same for JJJ. Those were the two deaths that upset me the most.

And apparently, I'm no threat for the baddies for a good reason.

I take responsibility for this loss. I knew no civvie would be so sure of themselves at LYLO and should have followed that vote through. Instead, the minute Matt said he wasn't sure about Sorsha, I just fell for it in a sec. After Matt switched back to me, I went to sleep thinking Matt is bad again, because it's like he didn't let the facts confuse him. But I didn't say anything because I thought it would just get me lynched for switching my suspicions like this. So either way, it doesn't end well. I'm an idiot. I will say in my defense, that MM trusting him like that made me doubt myself more than I care to admit, and I was so busy defending myself to figure out what was going on. And Matt played really really well. Nice job Matt! You really didn't let go.

I have to admit that I kind of hated my role. I had no control over. I had to target someone and their vote could be worth either -1, 0 or 2, and it was random. I only found out the value after I chose the target. So I never knew who to target. The one time I got to choose how much the vote was worth, I targeted Golden giving him two votes, but he died.

Sorsha, I apologize . Your night polls were amazing. That silence thing just came out of the blue and after I let Matt trick me into believing he's not as sure as he first was, I convinced myself of you being bad. So sorry.

I'm really disappointed in myself because I started the game so well. I think I called out a lot of the baddies and strongly defended the civvies. But as the game progressed I lost my footing and look at how it ended- with me trusting so many of those I was suspicious of (DH and Matt come to mind)


Congrats to the winners and my apologies to my fellow civvies for losing us the game.

And thank you hosts . It was a great game despite my never ending frustration. Sorry about that.


I need a long long long mafia break

*Now.

Pretty sure she'll wait for the last minute.


Roger out.

No Sorsha can come in and vote for herself.

Good night to you all. If there's a party tonight, it won't be the civvies' so don't bother waiting for me.

Okay, I'm done. It's after midnight here, and I slept about 4 hours last night and need to get up early. I've said all there is to say. Matt, it's on you. Just do whatever you want. I'm so tired of this. I killed Bea, silenced Sorsha, manipulated the votes, voted for my team mates and had them killed with the manipulated votes. Yep, that's the conclusion that should come out of all this discussion. Meanwhile the true baddie has faked a silence and if she succeeds in winning this after this pathetic attempt, you can enjoy the guilty feelings. I'll be free of that because I think I chose the right person to vote for.

linki: If you are a civ Matt, I literally have no words for this appalling decision. If you're bad. Good game.

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:Check it out.

There's a four way tie.

Last second, BOTH Wilgy and Golden switch up their votes and make it a four way tie again.

If Wilgy didn't know Golden was switching, then he voted to BREAK the tie.

Why, AS A BADDIE, would you intentionally BREAK a four way tie in which NONE of your teammates are in danger of getting lynched?

Answer me this. Please.

I refuse. If you don't give a shit about all the steps of that lynch, I don't have to, either.

I'll take that wall too, thank you.

For the amazing baddie that I could potentially be, I have a pretty lousy timing for my hinting. First, I hint at what I know which could only hurt me when people are looking at the lynch votes. Then, I hint to the game my role is from only for you to not find that role. Why would I do those things? Did anyone ask me to do it? No, I volunteered that information of my own free will. I'm an idiot genius scum who fooled you for so long because I do stupid things to make myself look worse. You all got me.


linki: I already answered. 1. Because he was looking for a real baddie from the other team to look better in the long run, and thought he voted for the right person. 2. To look confused. Those are my best guesses

I can't believe we're starting this all over again. I need to go to sleep.

FZ. wrote:

Matt wrote:I can't tell you why Mac pushed a tie by voting FZ. I have no idea.

I know Wilgy changed his vote last second, and I have to wonder why. What purpose does it serve to try and get MM lynched last second, if not to save a teammate?

Let's assume that FZ is not a teamie of Wilgy's. WHY does Wilgy change his vote last second?

Possibly to look like he has no idea who to choose?


linki: it is Angry birds, but the role is slightly changed. It was a lot more depressing, let me tell you that.

Also, seems like he really didn't know who to choose because there wasn't a team member from his team, so it could have been a genuine attempt to find a baddie from the other team to look like a civ.

Matt wrote:I can't tell you why Mac pushed a tie by voting FZ. I have no idea.

I know Wilgy changed his vote last second, and I have to wonder why. What purpose does it serve to try and get MM lynched last second, if not to save a teammate?

Let's assume that FZ is not a teamie of Wilgy's. WHY does Wilgy change his vote last second?

Possibly to look like he has no idea who to choose?


linki: it is Angry birds, but the role is slightly changed. It was a lot more depressing, let me tell you that.

Ricochet wrote:Well, I don't see anything Angry Birds-related to what FZ is ability-claiming, really.

bbl, dying without nose drops

Again, why would I claim something at this point that you can check, if I'm lying?

linki: Thanks MM. I'm still not sure how explicit I can be. Can I tell what my power is?

Looking at the actual game thread from where my role is, it's slightly changed, but you can figure it out.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:You're allowed to say your own role and/or what game it comes from, as far as I know.

It's that you're not allowed to discuss nightpoll outcomes, nor are you allowed to reveal anything about players other than yourself.

You positive?

So DH is always a baddie in championship games? Noted.

linki: Am I allowed to say this? What I've hinted about what I know has been checked with the hosts. If saying what game your role is from is not breaking the rules, I'll tell you. I don't want the baddies bitching about the civvies winning because of info dumping.


linki: For crying out loud, Matt, I could have switched the vote myself to prevent the tie. I was so freaking pissed that day about the tie, that I didn't even save the person I said I would save and left myself at risk of dying. You can see by my reactions that day that I said I was fed up with the game. Little did I know that all of Mac's crap to tie the lynch was because he was really bad and not just doing it for amusement.


linki: It's not Frisky

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Is there anything more to discuss before I go to sleep?

Are you a member of mafia?

No, plain and simple. I can also tell you that my role comes from a game that had no revealed roles from yet. I believe I'm the only one.

Matt wrote:

FZ. wrote:I think we're at a point where we're over analysing. I get why you're not willing to let what you know go, Matt, but first, look how many civvies were wrong based on information, and second, it does make sense that if one group has something, the other will have that too. Especially since coming back good is a very important power for baddies.

Sorsha is bad, period. If it's anyone else, I'll bow in the face of genius (sadly, that's not me, LOL)

Well, we still have three hours, and tbh, I'm not entirely sold on you being good.

I also think it's possible that wrong information exists, however, consider this...

If I had stumbled onto Sorsha being civvie and she really wasn't, then why did she continue to suss me? Believe me, I've even dropped hints to her in thread that I knew her role, yet she continued to suss me. If she was bad, why wouldn't Sorsha use me as her little civ play toy and buddied me up?

I dunno. I think it's highly convenient that you wanted to analyze everything earlier, and now that we have three votes on Sorsha, it's time to call it quitsies and go home. If there were two vote manips on the Harry Stephen Keeler indy team, why couldn't there be on this game's baddie team?

Linki linki linki

The last person to suss a person who trusted her was Lorab who sussed HB (I think it was him). That was one of the things that made me suspicious of her. Sorsha kept options open.
I wanted to analyze earlier because I need to sleep. My time zone is not like yours. Every game things happen while I'm asleep and I can't control them. I believe we've finally reached a good place. I'd hate for us to agree like this only for things to change when I go to sleep. Matt, if you're for real, please trust me. I'm not lying or deceiving anyone. The only reason you trust Sorsha, who when skimming Rico's lists I noticed you were pretty suspicious of in earlier stages, is your "evidence". I'm telling you, it has to be wrong. All other thread evidence points to her faking a silence and leaving us to suspect each other.

Is there anything more to discuss before I go to sleep?

Note to self: Next mafia game, start reading the list of roles

I'm going to bed. If the game ends tonight, please wait for me for the party And don't change your mind. This is going to be a civvie win. I asked before but no one answered: Did the civvies win a championship game before?


linki: Where I come from, a protector could also protect from night investigation or any other target that could harm you. But if it's a known role then I don't know what I'm talking about

Metalmarsh89 wrote:It's an easy way to balance teams out, put similar roles on either team.

I would argue yes. Plus zebra's wasn't exactly a seemer. It could not protect her own team, only impact civs.

We don't even know what Mac's role was. What could he protect from.

I think we're at a point where we're over analysing. I get why you're not willing to let what you know go, Matt, but first, look how many civvies were wrong based on information, and second, it does make sense that if one group has something, the other will have that too. Especially since coming back good is a very important power for baddies.

Sorsha is bad, period. If it's anyone else, I'll bow in the face of genius (sadly, that's not me, LOL)

Matt wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Matt wrote:MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

What's an alignment switch?

Zebra's role had some kind of trickery with faking alignments. I'm asking MM if he thinks Team Llama had something similar.

Which would explain why you think she's good...

Matt wrote:MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

What's an alignment switch?

Rico, there will be no Haha on my part, because I'm not bad. If Matt isn't fooling us and MM is who he claims to be, then that's the only remaining option.

Sorry Rico, I just can't handle those endless lists. I saw there was a list of baddie roles. I read the first line of that post. I thought, what could I do with that? I need to focus on getting to the important stuff.

In any case, do you really think there would be two who have the same power? isn't that a little lame?

Ricochet wrote:Then again, what's stopping us from profiling you as Napoleon Foy, FZ., despite the audacity of there being two vote wipers in the same team?

I went to the first page to check who this Napoleon person is and I don't see that role

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh, and I believe that if is Sorsha is civ and actually silenced, she would have placed her vote on her top suspect already. She has not done that yet.

Being silenced is one thing. Being silenced and vote-blocked at this stage would be fucked up.

And highly unlikely, because Draconus is dead.

If you mean as a night poll effect, then yes. Gross.

I have reason to believe her vote is not helpful for her. I might have finally done something good.

Let's just say that if Sorsha comes in after I go to sleep then she sure as hell is going to say I'm the baddie...

Can I go to sleep soon or will crazy stuff happen when I'm gone?

MM, do you have a really goo reason to trust Matt?

I think we solved it, but if you need to discuss more, then go ahead. I know I'm not bad. I want to believe Matt is good too. The only reason I was that suspicious of him in the first place was his sureness and unwillingness to look at more angles. Since he's done that, and everything he's saying in addition, I think we made the right decision.


linki: MM, while Sorsha could kill anyone else as well, she said she thought Matt was the last baddie, not Bea, so killing Bea would make her "right" on Bea and give more credit to the notion Matt is bad because Bea was suspicious of Matt.

Let me post

Matt wrote:

FZ. wrote:I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

That's what I'm thinking. bea thinks I'm the last baddie and targets me, my power gets redirected, and then and only then, is it possible Sorsha is even silenced.

So you think she could potentially redirect your power and you would target yourself? Because if not, if you're going to kill, what does it matter who you kill? Why target you?

I'm guessing at some point she'll just come in and say RL just didn't allow her to post or that she didn't know who she could trust so she let us talk among ourselves so she could get a feel of who the last baddie is.

Actually, if Bea thought you were the baddie why would she redirect the kill if it would only lead to another one of us dying? Could the redirection be shifted back to the person she was targeting? That is the only reason why she would target you, isn't it?

Does anyone really believe she was silenced at this point?

I tried reading your recap. It just confuses me more. It's not like I can really get something from it. For me, everything can be viewed in many ways. All I have to rely on is my gut and the best way for it is to talk to people live, which is what I was doing with Matt.

Am I really allowed to spell it out loud? I think I left enough crumbs.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Actually, more importantly than Sorsha being silenced is that she hasn't voted yet.

Makes me think she's waiting until day's end.

I think there's a good reason for it.

Ricochet wrote:

FZ. wrote:
linki: Rico, as much as I appreciate you doing this, I don't think it's helpful. I think that what we need to do is think clear and talk live to people. That's the only way you can sense someone. Read the exchange between Matt and I and tell me what you think.

Yeah, ok, you do that. I don't have the vote priviledges (or pressure), I can only provide assistance and this is what I choose to do. You are the actors in this endgame.

Granted, if I reach the end of these reads and there's something I can interpret in yours and Matt's stances, claims, pleads, I'll do so.

Fair enough. I would still like your thoughts on who we should lynch.

I can't believe we're at this point. I wanted to trust you because like I said to you when we lynched Mac, I didn't want to vote you, but you coming into this day so sure of yourself and being so stubborn made me think there's no way you could be a civ and you were just trying to frame me. I thought it would come down to me or you. I'm so glad you're considering this, and if you're the baddie, I will hunt you down. I can't wait for endgame to learn what you think you know about Sorsha.

linki: Rico, as much as I appreciate you doing this, I don't think it's helpful. I think that what we need to do is think clear and talk live to people. That's the only way you can sense someone. Read the exchange between Matt and I and tell me what you think.
linki 2: You can get whatever you want as long as we win.

One last thing, I think we can all agree Sorsha wasn't really being Sorsha this game. A lot of people said it more than once. We just let her slip for various reasons. Stupid us.


linki: Thanks Matt. I swear you won't regret it!!!!!

FZ. wrote:Two more things:

1. Mac asking Sorsha to "protest" vote with him, when we were lynching one of his teammates- motel room. Note that Sorsha voted for motel room the day after when MM already had 5 votes and motel room only 2.
2. On day 10, If I was bad and had vote manipulation, why did motel room end up getting lynched that day? Wouldn't I make sure he was saved? Do you not believe that I left for the day? Anyone who has ever played with me here knows that on Friday early afternoon (my time), I close my computer and don't check in until Saturday. I voted and didn't know what went on from there on.

The first point refers to day 9, where she protest votes with Mac for Drac. Then, on day 10, she votes for motel room.


Also, Matt, Sorsha said in the previous day she thinks it's you and Mac. By killing Bea she hoped I would think you did it and we'd all vote you. What would I have to gain from NK Bea when she was my top suspect? She wasn't Sorsha's was she? Another way to make us trust her more. And if I'm right, it means they actually did target her and saved her at the same time

Listen to me, I'm a civvie. I am not lying, this whole game depends on us. Sorsha is not silenced. We got lucky with her vote, and she's scared to post. She let us go at each other thinking this would be the best way to insure a civvie lynch. We can not let this happen. We need this win, we will get this win and please take your vote off me Matt.

Two more things:

1. Mac asking Sorsha to "protest" vote with him, when we were lynching one of his teammates- motel room. Note that Sorsha voted for motel room the day after when MM already had 5 votes and motel room only 2.
2. On day 10, If I was bad and had vote manipulation, why did motel room end up getting lynched that day? Wouldn't I make sure he was saved? Do you not believe that I left for the day? Anyone who has ever played with me here knows that on Friday early afternoon (my time), I close my computer and don't check in until Saturday. I voted and didn't know what went on from there on.

Matt wrote:

FZ. wrote:Matt, if you're not sure about Sorsha and it's not you, than it has to be her. I swear I'm a civ. Look at all my actions during this game. Like I said, if you are a civ, I don't know how you're not even willing to consider you are wrong. This is nuts.

It's hard to talk about this because people keep saying "rules rules!", but though I strongly believe her to be civ, I've even theorized myself (and maybe with SOMEONE ELSE derp a derp) that she isn't who she says she is.

Also, btw, I had a strange feeling in the back of my mind that there was a certain piece missing to this whole "silence" thing, and I just remembered...

Remember when I posted that Dom quote about how to act as a civ rolechecker. I'm not going to do the work for you, but check out the thread "What's your least favorite mechanic" in the Don's Hideout forum. Check out Turnip's answer to that question, and I have to wonder if Sorsha is even really silenced.

I dunno dude. All I know is I'm not mafia. And if I had to pick between you and Sorsha being the last baddie, it would be you based on your admitting you have a vote manip, and how that correlates with the indy team in Stephen Keeler being the baddie team here.

MM - If Zebra had some sort of "alignment" switcheroo on her team, do you think it's possible the other team has that as well? Hence why we think Sorsha is good?

Matt, damn it. you come in all sure of yourself and this nearly cost us the game. I am not lying. I checked this with the hosts a while ago and said some stuff in the thread. I even considered back then that Sorsha is bad because of what I knew. The only reason people backed off Sorsha, at least for me, is mostly because you were defending her so strongly. I really thought you were good, but I'm now left with 2 options and I figured if you won't even consider I'm a civ, it's you and not her. I'm now thinking you're just so tunnelling that you can't think straight.

Why why why would I hint at what I did at this stage if all it does is make me look worse? I knew when I was saying what I did, that MM and Rico were doing a vote check. All my voting for baddies would look bad, wouldn't it? Please, for crying out loud, think about this!! I don't want to lose the game because two civvies voted for each other. That would be such a disgrace.

In light of what you said, I'm changing my vote to Sorsha. I suggest you do the same because this has all been a very bad mess.

So you and MM had some BTSC during the night? At least that's how it sounds. What does it prove? Last time someone had BTSC with some people, he wrongly trusted them. This means nothing. I think that if you're seriously a civ, you should really consider you're wrong.

It might be that Sorsha is letting us fight between us because if we don't believe her and vote for her, she loses because I don't think she can do much with her vote.

Matt, if you're not sure about Sorsha and it's not you, than it has to be her. I swear I'm a civ. Look at all my actions during this game. Like I said, if you are a civ, I don't know how you're not even willing to consider you are wrong. This is nuts.

What? I don't know what you just said Rico.
Look, I've had enough. I keep saying I've said all I have to say but it's just so ridiculous I can't help but keep posting. I've wasted enough time on this. If the indy and the other civvie want to lose the game, it's their prerogative.

Now I'm leaving. Bye