Return to “Currents Mafia [END]”
Thanks!! That's a big complement coming from you.Golden wrote:From an external perspective, I have to disagree FZ. I was never sure if you were bad or not, I could have seen you slip through. And the cop gambit was pulled off to perfection.
Well done guys! 
And thanks for winning the game for us!
Why?Marmot wrote:Voting insertnamehere.
I think he has recently looked more active in hunting baddies. It is possible that he has found his footing in the game and is starting to become the civvie JJJ I've come to expect, but the way he acted in the early stages of the game is definitely not what I would expect from his civvie persona. First of all, he Vompattied and only started saying substantial stuff when a few people (including myself) said they want more from him. The thing is, when he came out of the Vompatti persona, his questions didn't feel like someone trying to really find baddies. It felt as though he's asking questions for the sake of looking like he's involved. Then, after the first day, MP gave this big post (which I admit I still haven't finished reading), which was a case on JJJ, and I said I agreed with him. MP was killed that night, and suddenly, JJJ started giving more. More accusations, more serious ISOs and stuff like that. Does JJJ usually take time to warm up? I remember him going strong from the get go.Long Con wrote:Can you elaborate on JJJ's change and how it pleases the critics?FZ. wrote:It means that anyone can ask questions. I don't think I see anything civvie like in asking questions. It's a way to avoid being looked at, because you were only asking questions. You weren't really pointing the finger at me. The UN council comparison is a figure of speech meant to say you're on the fence. Not taking sides. I guess you'd have to be from where I am, to get that...Though you changed your behaviour since then. It actually worries me more, because it feels like it was a change done to please the critics.
When you ask people what they think about someone, they actually have to formulate an opinion and have to think more carefully on what they say and do. When you ask if they oppose a lynch, they have to think of a good reason to oppose the lynch. It seems harder to come up with a good reason to prevent a lynch. That way, they lynch becomes easier. Was wondering if that's what you were trying to achieve.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My question focuses on civilian indicators which would give me a reason to lynch someone else. The decision had to be made while the thread was stagnating against the activity of the burglary at the worst time. It was crickets in here and someone had to galvanize people into a lynch, so that's what I did. It didn't work out, shit happens.FZ. wrote:I still need to ask: Is there a reason why you asked people if they have a reason to oppose a Wilgy lynch and not just simply asked them what they thought about Wilgy instead?
What's the difference to you?
And then there was another one where you just say Wilgy is the best option and just lynch Wilgy. But I did miss a few posts where you actually gave reasons for suspecting WIlgy, so I guess I have to take it back.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't know how the game will develop from this point. If things don't change substantially on that front then I'd put it pretty high, like 7 or 8.Long Con wrote:Can I have an opinion from everyone please? On a scale of 1 to 10, How likely is it that FZ will be lynched in the next three days?
Does anyone have a reason to oppose a Wilgy lynch?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:FZ ISO
I've spoken of this first post already. It still gives me a bad impression. To summarize, it bears the appearance of a person trying to say things instead of wanting to say things.Spoiler: show
What the hell does that even mean?
She answered to my initial concerns -- She provided an admirable effort to answer point-by-point, but it doesn't make me feel much. I emerge from it still concerned by the same points, and I am not sure FZ displayed any agenda later in Day 1 or onward to engage the thread from a standpoint of developing reads. It's been defenses like this, and the longer the game proceeds without that changing significantly the less justification there can be for it.
Reflected suspicion becomes a trend -- I'm not typically one to be that concerned with "no u" or "omgus", because I think those accusations tend to be used much more often than they yield results. FZ was egregious about it though on Day 1, first turning on MP after facing heat and then doing the same with nutella.
Agreed. At least you're honest. FZ is correct that she did provide reads of a sort under pressure while defending herself on Day 1; it ties directly into the previous point. Two of those three reads provided were suspicion reflected upon accusers, which means they functioned as reads and defenses simultaneously. I'll acknowledge though that her reads content during this period was a little more substantive than I remembered. I am not thrilled by the direction or the potential for an agenda, but the reads do exist.Spoiler: show
I think this was her best post of Day 1, both for its transparent honesty about reflected suspicion and the valid point made about LC's treatment of the continuing discussion about her. There are further reads provided too, albeit unexplained.Spoiler: show
This one just bugs me at face value. I don't know what the point of the observation is without a name given. She touched on that here to speak of her strategic perspective but still provide no name to associate with her grievance. I am not sure there was ever a follow-through on this.Spoiler: show
I don't know why I am supposed to have an opinion inserted into a question I ask, or what the comparison to the UN council means.Spoiler: show
It means that anyone can ask questions. I don't think I see anything civvie like in asking questions. It's a way to avoid being looked at, because you were only asking questions. You weren't really pointing the finger at me. The UN council comparison is a figure of speech meant to say you're on the fence. Not taking sides. I guess you'd have to be from where I am, to get that...Though you changed your behaviour since then. It actually worries me more, because it feels like it was a change done to please the critics.
The increased font size and request to be left alone is clearly an emotional appeal, and that might provide an opportunity to judge the player. FZ: please give me an example of a game in which you were bad on The Syndicate so I can draw a comparison.Spoiler: show
I think the only one I remember being one is Pikmin.
She doesn't like LC -- a continuing dialogue stemming from the initial Day 0 spat progressing through Day 2. Her grievance remains focused upon the point that LC started the beef and then left the dialogue alone for a while, implying opportunism. It continues here. I'm not thrilled with the focus on LC's interjection in the Wilgy/Epi dialogue, that seems like mental gymnastics.
~~~
Conclusion
I still think she looks suspicious at face value more often than she doesn't. It's difficult to qualify that further without her making an appearance lately.
What was that about? All I kept seeing was people asking whether other people objected voting for Wilgy. There was no real good case on him. JJJ is really not looking very civvie at the moment. After looking to be very neutral to me for a very long time, It feels like last day he was trying to lead a lynch so he comes off looking as a civvie who isn't afraid of the consequences. It feels manufactured to me. Couple that with MP's death, and I really think we are looking at a potential mafia.It feels as if you are doing exactly what you just suggested I did.Long Con wrote: Whereas a Civ is likely to try and analyze things and figure out what's going on, a baddie already knows what's going on, and has to construct false things to sound true. When you say "he's just agreeing with Wilgy that basically, everyone can have their own opinions", you are displaying a total misunderstanding of the conversation. The Wilgy opinion that I agreed with, was that the thoughts and ideas that fuel what you say in Mafia will differ in the same player based on whether that player is Civ or bad. Epi contends that this theory doesn't apply to him.
So, to answer your question: "...Seriously?" No, I am not seriously agreeing with Wilgy that everyone can have their own opinions, because no one who seriously wants to understand the conversation would suggest that such a thing was discussed.
First, we have LC thinking my one post on day 0, is so bad that it's enough to vote for me. Then, he disappears and lets all the rest do the dirty job of actually conversing with me on the matter.MovingPictures07 wrote:Long Con, I'm similarly troubled by your contributions at the moment; I don't understand why you're jumping in after the fact and expressing agreement with this Wilgy argument.
Can you do something else for now and explain some of those reads on your rainbow in greater detail, if you don't mind? Even a brief sentence or whatever would be fine. Because I don't understand how you're coming to most of those, including the bad read of me. As far as I'm aware, the only thing you said to me earlier was "MP you're probably bad k" or something like that.So by all means, if there's something you want to talk about, let's do it.
So what I see here, is someone that throws around an accusation to appear like he's hunting, disappears and lets others be responsible for the lynch, sticks to that initial suspicion without barely giving anything else, wagons on others' opinions and calls others bad without backing it up (MP).Long Con wrote:I don't see anything wrong with JJJ's questions. I have the same questions when I read your post. "...someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who..." I, too, felt like there was no central mastermind inciting chaos. This feels more like you are manufacturing an opinion with the appearance of civ-mindedness... are you accusing Epi of being the one?FZ. wrote:Sorry, I'm kind of exhausted after last night, and had a tough day, so not really in the mood for mafia. I did skim a little, and MP, you do have a point with JJJ. I expect more from JJJ when he's a civ. Right now, it feels as if he's asking a lot of questions, but not really stating any thoughts. It's like he's from the UN. There's an example in his post below.
But, to answer your question, JJJ:
I didn't like the way votes kept changing. I'm not a fan of that unless you have a good reason to change your vote at the last minute, like your top suspect convinced you there's a chance you might be wrong about them. I disagree with Epi (I think it was him), who said it helps civvies learn more later on. I think it's an easy way to get away with your vote. "It's exciting, I love these kind of votes", "I wanted to see what others would do", and stuff like that. I think it makes it harder to maintain accountability.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Why are you inclined to view the end of day sequence as being orchestrated by a "someone" as opposed to the collective of voters all involved in that motion? What does that mean to you, and what candidates would you assert there are to fill the role of "someone"?FZ. wrote:Meh. RIP Nutella.
All this shifting of votes at the end of the day feels to me like someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who. I'm going to sleep. Will think about it tomorrow.
To answer your last question, I'd have to go back and read the last few pages of last day, and I'm not in a state to do it right now. Sorry. Maybe tomorrow.
Sorry to see you go. It's been ages since we played together and even though we were fighting most of the time, it was fun. Sorry for losing it at some point 
For what it's worth, I think the baddies were threatened by you. 
No, Epi feels genuine to me. I've stated so. I said I disagree with him on the benefit of such craziness at the end of the day. I wrote the "I wish I knew who" because I was freaking exhausted and the day ended up pretty shitty if you ask me, and I was overwhelmed by everything going on, and me having to defend myself. That was my gut reaction.Long Con wrote:I don't see anything wrong with JJJ's questions. I have the same questions when I read your post. "...someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who..." I, too, felt like there was no central mastermind inciting chaos. This feels more like you are manufacturing an opinion with the appearance of civ-mindedness... are you accusing Epi of being the one?FZ. wrote:Sorry, I'm kind of exhausted after last night, and had a tough day, so not really in the mood for mafia. I did skim a little, and MP, you do have a point with JJJ. I expect more from JJJ when he's a civ. Right now, it feels as if he's asking a lot of questions, but not really stating any thoughts. It's like he's from the UN. There's an example in his post below.
But, to answer your question, JJJ:
I didn't like the way votes kept changing. I'm not a fan of that unless you have a good reason to change your vote at the last minute, like your top suspect convinced you there's a chance you might be wrong about them. I disagree with Epi (I think it was him), who said it helps civvies learn more later on. I think it's an easy way to get away with your vote. "It's exciting, I love these kind of votes", "I wanted to see what others would do", and stuff like that. I think it makes it harder to maintain accountability.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Why are you inclined to view the end of day sequence as being orchestrated by a "someone" as opposed to the collective of voters all involved in that motion? What does that mean to you, and what candidates would you assert there are to fill the role of "someone"?FZ. wrote:Meh. RIP Nutella.
All this shifting of votes at the end of the day feels to me like someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who. I'm going to sleep. Will think about it tomorrow.
To answer your last question, I'd have to go back and read the last few pages of last day, and I'm not in a state to do it right now. Sorry. Maybe tomorrow.
I didn't like the way votes kept changing. I'm not a fan of that unless you have a good reason to change your vote at the last minute, like your top suspect convinced you there's a chance you might be wrong about them. I disagree with Epi (I think it was him), who said it helps civvies learn more later on. I think it's an easy way to get away with your vote. "It's exciting, I love these kind of votes", "I wanted to see what others would do", and stuff like that. I think it makes it harder to maintain accountability.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Why are you inclined to view the end of day sequence as being orchestrated by a "someone" as opposed to the collective of voters all involved in that motion? What does that mean to you, and what candidates would you assert there are to fill the role of "someone"?FZ. wrote:Meh. RIP Nutella.
All this shifting of votes at the end of the day feels to me like someone wanted to cause chaos. Wish I knew who. I'm going to sleep. Will think about it tomorrow.
Thanksspeedchuck wrote:Poll closed. I guess we wait for EOD. Will there be nightchat?
CFD = Chinese Fire Drill
Switching very quickly from one lynch to another with little time to spare
Chuck feels genuine. He gives straight answers. Doesn't feel like he's going around.Dyslexicon wrote:Why Wilgy as town?FZ. wrote:Civ reads:
Epi
Wilgy
Chuck
Oh, did I forget to mention that LC is not up my trusted list either. Sorry if I'm suspicious of almost everyone who is suspicious of me. But he was "pinged" by my one post, and ever since is letting everyone else do the fighting while he is sitting back and not really saying anything.
I don't think I really see clear town for any of these, but am interested to hear your explanation.
Like I said, his obsession is making me fear I was wrong about him and he might be a civ. Not willing to let my suspicion die yet, but obsessed MP is usually civvieJaggedJimmyJay wrote:So, to be quite clear: you suspect MP is opportunistic in this moment and is not genuine in his suspicion of you? Yes or no.FZ. wrote:Do you actually read my posts? Or are you too vain and sure of yourself that you just fit everything to you wrong (or evil) theory? You want to lynch me, lynch me, just don't say false things when you haven't read what I write. You'll be viewed differently after I'm lynched. Pretty sure twisting my words will come bite you in the ass when I'm gone. I explained what I felt about Nutella now. I explained to JJJ why I said what I said about INH, and also commented on the fact he isn't here now.
Do you actually read my posts? Or are you too vain and sure of yourself that you just fit everything to you wrong (or evil) theory? You want to lynch me, lynch me, just don't say false things when you haven't read what I write. You'll be viewed differently after I'm lynched. Pretty sure twisting my words will come bite you in the ass when I'm gone. I explained what I felt about Nutella now. I explained to JJJ why I said what I said about INH, and also commented on the fact he isn't here now.MovingPictures07 wrote:You have no opinion whatsoever on anyone else in the game?FZ. wrote:I gave my reads on MP, Nutella and also INH. I feel like I wasted too much time defending myself which is why I hate when that happens. It's a circle thing where you're poked for not giving names, when all you do all the time is defend yourself. Yet, I feel I still talked about suspicions. I'm sorry you don't like them. That doesn't make me bad. It either makes me wrong, or it makes me smarter than the rest.
How is it you're reading nutella as bad when you compared the treatment of yourself to the treatment of her earlier? I don't understand that.
And INH? You mean the guy that isn't even here?
Come on, he didn't question his suspect list at any point. He only questioned his Marmot list.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:This stuff in particular doesn't inspire me. MP asked about one stated read; there is no obligation to be curious about other reads too at the exact same moment.FZ. wrote:@linki: MP, I'm not interested in justifying a baddie read of you, I'm trying to figure it out. I get what you're saying, but I'm trying to understand why you would ask about the civvie read and not about the mafia read. What does it give you? Why aren't you interested in why he saw Eloh as bad? Or Wilgy?
I give up, MP. If you look at it from my point of view, you're doing exactly what you're saying I'm doing. And calling everyone to follow you. If you're good, you really don't want to lynch me. If you're bad, go ahead. Problem is, this last post makes me think you're civvie, which makes this even sadder. I've seen you blindly and enthusiastically mislynch me more as a civvie.MovingPictures07 wrote:Reading through FZ.'s response to Jay now. I think she's full of it, especially this:
I don't buy this explanation. I think she fabricated that suspicion of me. She doesn't seem to care about solving me; she only keeps coming with reasons to further her suspicion.FZ. wrote:Like I said, it's interesting that he didn't ask about the suspects, only about one specific trusted one, who wasn't on others' list or a consensus among the playersJaggedJimmyJay wrote:This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.
Let's lynch her.
If you disagree with me, tell me why.
Apart from that game when we were both bad and you dragged me with you when you went down, when exactly have you seen me as bad? Amazingly, I think I was bad only one more time here and I don't remember you being around that game. but maybe I'm wrong. Please enlighten me.MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, regarding your second reads post, I have a couple of comments regarding FZ:
I wanted to single that out, because that expresses a problem I've been having with FZ. from the start of the game. I still don't really know where her head is at remotely, and I feel we have the potential to mindmeld pretty well just like you and I do. Hopefully she's spoken to that and responded to some of your beefs/inquiries here; I look forward to reading those myself.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.
To speak to this, since FZ. and I have played together fairly extensively when it comes to her history here on TS (and otherwise I've hosted her in Pikmin), I would say it's difficult to interpret FZ.'s emotional responses for any sort of alignment-indicative behavior. I've seen her get genuinely upset plenty of times as both alignments, particularly because she unfortunately has a tendency to get mislynched around these parts. I would say I've seen plenty of emotion from her when bad as well though.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.
A little convenient if you ask me. She just found that post and agrees with it.nutella wrote:
Also, having re-read the thread I do strongly suspect FZ. Something about her responses to Dizzy and MP felt off, and I didn't like her writeoff of Wilgy either. Wilgy feels like Wilgy, sure, but do you mean he feels like civ Wilgy or are you just putting off talking about him because you don't feel like it?
Plus her apparent no-u on MP is straight up suspicious as hell. I'm going ahead and placing a vote on FZ.
My answers in Orange in the text. You're also very welcome to check my previous games when I'm suspected. Let me know what you find...JaggedJimmyJay wrote:F.Z.
Her first post is rather difficult to follow. It has already been discussed some; I have a couple different questions based upon the highlighted content:
~ Can you expand on what differences you perceive in the LC/Epi interaction early in this game versus the previous heist (Blue vs. Red?) and what that difference means to you? It is unclear. LC and Epi seemed to trust each other at the start of last game. LC acted like he's Epi's body guard or something, and when I asked Epi about it, he preferred not to answer. ANd like I said, they were both civvies. So when they started going at each other right at the start, it felt different. The jokey tone made me doubt my initial gut feeling that the difference meant something, so my post there just conveys that I've noticed something and I'm keeping an eyeSpoiler: show
~ What was the purpose or inspiration for mentioning INH in this post? when I thought that maybe that exchange could be innocent, INH was someone I thought could be trying to make something more of that situation with his facetious attitude. Like I said, it's easy to look at ease on the first day when you're bad. I don't think INH has posted much or at all since then.
This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.Like I said, it's interesting that he didn't ask about the suspects, only about one specific trusted one, who wasn't on others' list or a consensus among the playersSpoiler: show
Regarding the highlighted portion, it'd be ideal if you could expand, FZ, on the specifics of Epi's suspicion of nutella that you don't agree with. You've sort of paired yourself with her by stating that the cases are similar and that she'd only be your vote if self-preservation demands it. Tell me more about the similarities you observe. At them time, I felt that we were both being suspected for basically one post which people viewed as containing both smudging someone and taking it back, or something like that. Apparently, I wasn't being accusatory enough in my post, just throwing something out there and going back on it. That's how I perceived that accusation, and thought Nutella was being accused for the same thing. But since then Epi has explained that his suspicion was for different reasons, and I can't say her post with her vote put me at ease. I will address that later on.Spoiler: show
That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.
I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.
Maybe you're being genuine, I don't know. I like the fact that you're at least considering things, but look at Speedchuck's list:MovingPictures07 wrote:Thank you so much, FZ.; I understand much better now.Spoiler: show
I really didn't fathom how my post inquiring about Marmot could be seen as suspicious because I didn't even think of that interpretation.
I can now comprehend how you reached that perspective, but it wasn't what I was accomplishing with that post. I specifically asked about Marmot because the rest of the reads seemed immediately agreeable or reasonable to me, and I have trouble reading Marmot especially early in games.
On reflection, I might not have made that same post if I realized the perspective that you spouted here.
I'm not one to exercise caution when discussing information in the thread, for better or worse, not because I'm careless but in this case because I just didn't think of it that way.
I still don't think it'll matter much though if everyone posts their damn reads, so that we don't have a situation like this.
That's bullshit. As a baddie, I've tried to look determined plenty of times, and go after someone relentlessly. I'm often a lot more hesitant as a civvie because the pressure of making a mistake is making me doubt myself.FZ. wrote:To be fair, I think that Nutella and I are getting accused for similar things. If it's between me and her, I'll vote Nutella to save myself, but I can't say I really see what Epi is seeing. People keep thinking that only baddies say something but contradict themselves in the same post to leave every option open later on. That's bullshit. As a baddie, I've tried to look determined plenty of times. Going after someone relentlessly, and I'm often a lot more hesitant as a civvie because the pressure of making a mistake is making me doubt myself.
I don't know how this guy plays. It's my first game with him and that vote kind of frustrated me. Was wondering if he would be that bold and stupid as a baddie to just say he's bandwagoning. I was kind of hoping other people would tell me, and was trying to get him to speak.MovingPictures07 wrote:What specifically are you trying to convey about Dizzy in this post re: alignment?FZ. wrote:Wilgy feels like Wilgy.Epignosis wrote:I have voted DrWilgy. I will likely do so until I am satisfied with his production.
@linki: Nothing other than you just voted for me for reasons of "bandwagon". WIFOM much? I'm sorry. I don't do well with players who try to fluff their way through the game and use shenanigans. I'm more the straightforward type. So right now, I'm wondering whether you're just fooling around, or if I should just vote you back. In the past, I'd say players wouldn't be that stupid to say bandwagon if they really are doing it, but experience on this site has taught me players are stupid
This feels like you're trying to draw out the cop. And it feels even worse when it was your idea in the first place to give a list of civvie reads.MovingPictures07 wrote:Yay, a rainbow!speedchuck wrote:MP
Epi
Marmot
Long Con
JaggedJimmyJay
insertnamehere
Dyslexicon
Luke11646
nutella
FZ
DrWilgy
Eloh
Do do doot do... I'm here. What's up, guys?
Can you elaborate on your Marmot read? I can never read that guy.
Wilgy feels like Wilgy.Epignosis wrote:I have voted DrWilgy. I will likely do so until I am satisfied with his production.
Kidding, but I've learnt that anything goes. So I'm watching you. 
Nope, not me.Dyslexicon wrote:Huh, sorry. PerC is short for PersonalityCafe, which is my "home site", and I could've sworn there was a player called "FZ" that played one game there a while back but then disappeared. If it's not you then you have a mafia playing evil twin name brother or I have a shitty memory.FZ. wrote:I've never played with this cat person. Feels like Vompatty 2.
@linki: What is PerC?
No connection between what is going on, and his own actions.Epi doesn't like to talk about Eloh's alignment tells. I was wondering if Eloh felt the same, and what she thought about his behaviour so far.MovingPictures07 wrote:While I echo your lament for the town if Jay is indeed town, I do think however that he should play however he wants to. In the end, I'm sure he'll be able to give us some assistance in figuring out his alignment.FZ. wrote:I'm LOL at JJJ trying to Vompatti, but it's going to be a real shame if he actually carries on for too long. If he's good this game, civvie JJJ is a lot more useful than civve Vompatti.
Eloh, Do you have baddie tells for Epi, or is your policy regarding his game similar to his own regarding your game?
I like this day 0 so far. Usually we do nothing until the next day starts.
Can you clarify re: the bolded/underlined portion of your post?
Well it's true. Your interaction did seem very different from last game and coming from my first game after a long break, it was something that stood out. I didn't know what to make of it yet, but I like to say what's on my mind when I read things. And like I said, I'll judge things when I see more.Long Con wrote:This post of FZ's pinged me.FZ. wrote:Hi. I was sure a lot more people would check in by now, and I'd miss a lot.
Epi and LC have started the game strongly quite early. This is unlike the last heist game where they seemed relatively trusting of each other (and were both civvies). It feels genuine at the moment, especially since Epi just went back on his suspicion. We'll see. And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things, but while the jokey atmosphere is not uncommon for day 0, I always feel like it's an easy way for baddies to blend in on day 0 and appear like they have no care in the world. So I'll be keeping an eye here.
Carry on.
I read it as "This is unlike the last heist game where they were both civvies. I'll call it genuine but make it clear that will change. Their jokes are an indicator they are bad."
Also feels like "They're bad, they're good, they're bad."
It looks like a waffley kind of baddie thing. I vote FZ.
