The Syndicate

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I enjoy this kind of game because it's very much logic-based. I've once played one where each role was doubled (10 players and baddies have BTSC, but only one kill I think). That was quite complicated to figure out, so this one is far simpler.

FZ. had the right idea in pursuing the logic. It's too bad you recognized you were kinda screwed though, so you couldn't use that in your argument too well.

It was fun, I agree. The thing with this kind of game is that every night is crucial. So for example, if night 0's investigations weren't decided on before, it would take longer. That doubled role thing sounds life fun too!
And yeah, too bad I couldn't use my logic here

Thanks for organizing the game

Turnip Head wrote:Fun game! Sorry for accidentally ruining it. :P

You played a good game though FZ. Shoulda kept me alive; if anyone could have been swayed by your impassioned and valiant effort, it was probably me. And I got a "guilty" read on you meaning I was the paranoid cop, so I would have been super paranoid the whole day.

I was pretty sure it was you though

I knew it was a chance I had to take. I didn't know which one was the paranoid and which was the insane, so I thought since you came up with the plan, you would be more attentive to the results and options. In truth, the minute Lizzie was gone, there was no other way but for me to be the baddie

TH investigated llama- guilty
Lizzie investigated TH-innocent
llama inv. TH- innocent
INH inv. TH- guilty
I "inv." TH- innocent

1. One of those saying "innocent" was the baddie.
2. If llama was the baddie and was lying, it would mean that TH was either the sane or paranoid cop. If he was the sane or paranoid cop, it would mean there was no way in which both me and lizzie would get an "innocent" and INH a "guilty" reply, because if he was the sane, the naive could get an innocent reply on TH, but neither the paranoid, nor the insane could get that on TH (which would mean there should be only one innocent). If TH was the paranoid, it means the sane and naive could get an "innocent" reply on TH, but then the insane, would get the "innocent" as well.

So basically, after Lizzie's lynch the game should have been over.

Lizzy wrote:At least we now know how you behave when naughty.

Cheers for the game, Marshy!

How do I behave?
I would like to know too, because I can't judge objectively.

thellama73 wrote:Great game! FZ, I agree with you about the plan being a little unfair since the thread was supposed to be closed, but even so you came vanishingly close to winning. You made such an impassioned plea that you almost convinced me, and there was always a chance people would have thought me the other liar instead of you (which I am grateful they did not.) Without TH's plan, you would have destroyed us for sure. It wouldn't even have been close.

Thanks I couldn't go with you because INH got innocent on me and he got baddie on TH. TH and INH were the only ones who got "guilty" the first night, and TH was a confirmed civ, so if INH was telling the truth (and he was), I had to be the baddie, because he got baddie for TH and innocent for me. It meant he was the innocent for sure. So I had to make him the liar. If he'd come out and said he got guilty on me, I could still persuade him I was the civvie and you the baddie. But, he didn't and the rest is history...
Good job sticking to your intuition and logic Sorry I made you feel bad.

linki @ yeah, you are. Great job! The answer to your question is in my reply to llama. But maybe I was analyzing this too much and thought you would too. I thought there was no way I could make you think you were wrong.

What? I was the baddie? I was sure I was just insane

Congrats to the civvies

Lizzie, I do thank you though it didn't help.

I was doomed the second TH came up with that plan on night 0. While it was a very clever plan (it was, you can be proud of yourself), for fairness' sake, I don't think it should have been used on the first night. The only option was for two answers from each type. Once there were three innocent, it was evident that the baddie was one of the three who said innocent, so it took two out of the race. And I couldn't have said I checked someone else because that would have made me look even more scummy. So maybe closing the thread for discussion the first night was the right decision. Too bad it happened too late

I still enjoyed the game, and my apologies to everyone I used and manipulated. I actually hate doing that. That's part of what makes me a very bad scum.

Thanks for the game, MM

thellama73 wrote:We have a listless, irresponsible host.

He's just disappointed at you like I am

I thought this farce would be over by now and I could say I told you so. Oh well, I'll just have to wait...

I guess not....

Okay INH, you have my blessing for killing llama at night

At least I won't be here when you hang me in the city square...
Bad decision

Good night

One last try, and then I'm moving to the other game or going to sleep.

llama, are you sure there's nothing that can change your mind? I think INH has been playing an incredible game, and he knew who to kill as well. But you're making a terrible mistake and now would be a good time to wake up and smell the coffee

Suit yourself I did my best. Loss is on you, not me. I was the only one seeing the truth.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Mafia isn't always about logic, but I guess I can't fault you. It's really kind of sad, because we were 4 and he's just one, and TH's idea was great. I can't believe we blew it. Sucks.


Okay, I can't stay anymore.

Just think about how I would feel if I voted against all logic and ended up being wrong. I would never live it down.

I'm so going to pay for this. I don't like losing as a civvie, so if I end up getting lynched and won't finish my work, I'm never going to let you live this down. Just because TH said I was the baddie, doesn't make it more logical. Check my answer to INH for the rest of this logic explanation...

insertnamehere wrote:There's three problems with your theory FZ.

1: Why wouldn't Lizzy say "Hey, I checked INH and he was bad" when the game began? There was still a pretty decent amount of time and posts before she apparently gave up on the game, if she wanted to help the civvies, why not at least mention my name?

2: I think that Lizzy was joking when she said that she wanted the baddie to win. I've played with her before, and she has never struck me as the type to ruin a whole teams game just because she got lynched.

3: I wish I was that good at playing mafia to pull off a move like that. My "talents" trend more towards the hosting side of things, and when I do participate in some crazy fucking scheme or something, it's usually an off-the-cuff, "Hey, why not?" type play. For example, I pretended to have some magical program that looked at players posting history, ran it through an algorithm, and was able to tell whether or not a player was bad using statistics. I didn't know at the time that one of the other players made computer algorithms that used statistics for his job, and saw through my bullshit immediately. That's maybe the most thought-out game I've played so far.

I love how you're saying there are problems with my theory, yet you're not calling me a baddie. It's like you're afraid to push this too hard, or llama will think you're sweating.
1. I think Lizzie decided to make things interesting long before she was voted for. You can even see it in her attitude before she even got one vote. So she didn't say anything like you're suggesting. Plus, I have no idea if she investigated you or not. She could have investigated TH and just lied about the results to mix things up. When I said she might have known you were lying, I was assuming it was based on your "results"

2. I have no idea how she is, because I've barely played with her, but she seems like a funky person (I'm bad at English slang), who would do crazy things, especially in a small game where it's not that serious, and no harm will really be done.

3. When people say "I wish I were that good", it just makes me think they are, but I guess we'll just have to see.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I would be a fool to change my vote in the face of all evidence, just based on your word. But I have to give you credit, you make a very compelling and impassioned argument. Your Latin is wrong though, so if nothing lse, it's worth lynching you for that.

English is not my native language, so since I don't write Latin, that is a very poor excuse for lynching me, not to mention the fact that your spelling is wrong, and English is your mother tongue.

And since we're being pedantic, my spelling isn't bad, my typing is. There exists a difference. Not having English as your first language gives you even less of an excuse to not know Latin and to misspell ad hoc.

Since we're elaborating on this, I'll just have you know, that I actually wrote ad hoc, yet the stupid spell checker told me I was wrong, and it suggested the "ad hock", so I thought that's how it's written when "said" in English. So will you now change your vote?

Mafia isn't always about logic, but I guess I can't fault you. It's really kind of sad, because we were 4 and he's just one, and TH's idea was great. I can't believe we blew it. Sucks.


Okay, I can't stay anymore.

thellama73 wrote:I would be a fool to change my vote in the face of all evidence, just based on your word. But I have to give you credit, you make a very compelling and impassioned argument. Your Latin is wrong though, so if nothing lse, it's worth lynching you for that.

English is not my native language, so since I don't write Latin, that is a very poor excuse for lynching me, not to mention the fact that your spelling is wrong, and English is your mother tongue.

Joking aside, while I can see why you are seeing things this way, and I'm not sure I would listen to me either, it's the truth! And not only will you be lynching me, but you'll be getting yourself killed and losing us all the game. If you want to joke about that, go ahead.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:I know this looks bad for me, but llama, you have to trust me on this. I said I was going to investigate you, but I investigate INH, because he was really quiet this game after last game. So I thought if Lizzie was really messing with us, and wanted the baddie to win, the only person she didn't say could be the baddie was INH. She started with voting you. Then said was a genius baddie, and then voted for me. I think she wanted to mess with us, and I don't know who she investigated the first night, but maybe she bluffed.

Anyway, I thought that if she did bluff, that would mean you and me could both be telling the truth about TH, and INH was lying. I thought I'd say I'm going to look into you so he won't be afraid to say what he "found". I really investigated him, and found out he's the baddie, so I think I'm actually the sane cop, and he's just the baddie. I guess Lizzie was a naive or paranoid cop, but we just didn't get anything from her.

I know you don't want to trust me, but I also think that INH killed TH to make me look really bad.
Listen to me. If you vote me, you're losing the game for us with your own two hands. I beg you to reconsider!!!

Let's think about this. If I assume that you, I and TH all told the truth, then you have to be sane, I have to be naive, TH has to be paranoid or insane, leaving one paranoid or insane cop left and one baddie, split between LIzzy and INH. We know lizzy wasn't the baddie, so she would have been either paranoid or insane, and gotten a guilty result when investigating TH. You're alleging that she got a guilty result and reported innocent for no reason. This would also require INH to report a guilty result when he really had none. He then would have had to lie about getting an innocent result for you, pretending to be the insane cop, which would make sense if what you say is true.

I simply do not believe Lizzy would deliberately throw the game for the civs when she is a civ. She is crazy, but not that crazy.

Sadly, I can't stay and discuss this, because I have deadline for a job I took, and I'm so behind on it, and it's someone's thesis, so I can't play with that. But I don't want us to lose so I'll say what I can. All my interpretations are ad-hock, because I'm basing it on what's happened. I don't know INH very well, so I have no idea how conniving he or can be, but if there was ever an opportunity to try that out, this is just the type of game to do it. Don't forget about his Malhulland Drive mafia idea. Seems kind of conniving to me. Last game he was very proactive. I don't see him doing that this game. He's reacting...and in this game, the baddies needs to be reacting, because he has to sit and wait.
I don't know if Lizzie is the kind of player to throw a game, but if she was bluffing, then she probably realized INH was lying, and maybe that's why he's the only one she didn't mention could be a baddie. At this point, she wanted the baddie to win. I have no idea why, but she said so. I think that since MM said that info dumping is encouraged and more so if it's lying, she went with it. With the little I got to know her, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

I've said all I can. If it doesn't convince you I can't do anything about it, but it's the truth. Do with that what you will.
I don't know if I'll be here until the day ends.
It's all up to you llama.

I know this looks bad for me, but llama, you have to trust me on this. I said I was going to investigate you, but I investigate INH, because he was really quiet this game after last game. So I thought if Lizzie was really messing with us, and wanted the baddie to win, the only person she didn't say could be the baddie was INH. She started with voting you. Then said was a genius baddie, and then voted for me. I think she wanted to mess with us, and I don't know who she investigated the first night, but maybe she bluffed.

Anyway, I thought that if she did bluff, that would mean you and me could both be telling the truth about TH, and INH was lying. I thought I'd say I'm going to look into you so he won't be afraid to say what he "found". I really investigated him, and found out he's the baddie, so I think I'm actually the sane cop, and he's just the baddie. I guess Lizzie was a naive or paranoid cop, but we just didn't get anything from her.

I know you don't want to trust me, but I also think that INH killed TH to make me look really bad.
Listen to me. If you vote me, you're losing the game for us with your own two hands. I beg you to reconsider!!!

What happened? It's not day yet?

And INH, I want to play in the MD game, so I can't help you host

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:You're not allowed to investigate yourself btw. I asked. :P

Bummer. I was quite pleased with myself for thinking about it Okay then, I'm going to go with llama. You all do what you want to do.

And I'm investigating you. You have to be the baddie, assuming Lizzy didn't just lie to screw over the civs, so tonight will tell me which cop I am.

Looks like you're preparing the lies already. I don't know what happened with Lizzy, but we somehow screwed up and she wasn't really helping us make a better decision. It's going to come down to your word against mine, unless again, I'm missing something. I have no idea what. Good luck, because obviously, the two of us will still be alive next day, lol

Turnip Head wrote:You're not allowed to investigate yourself btw. I asked. :P

Bummer. I was quite pleased with myself for thinking about it Okay then, I'm going to go with llama. You all do what you want to do.

For real??? I was freaking sure she was the baddie.

The only way that could be was if she just lied about her night info. It's possible with how she talked about wanting the baddie to win, but seriously, WTF?

You can be sure llama is my next investigation. I have no problem with all of you investigating me. I think maybe one of us should investigate himself to get a definite answer on the nature of at least one cop. But if you feel looking at me will help more, go ahead

Took a shower before bed and couldn't help stop by on my way to bed...

A Person wrote:

I like infected mushroom!

Turnip Head wrote:I really don't think it's Lizzy, I think she was acting scummy on purpose. But because everything I've said is based on what each person said. I wasn't taking into consideration someone lying just for fun and not for being a baddie. I can't deal with that now. My eyes are shutting down. This just sucks.

Okay, I've said all I have to say and it's almost half past midnight. I have to get up early for work tomorrow and I can't stay up to see the results. I'm good with anything you decide (though naturally, I prefer to not get lynched )
Hopefully with all our investigations, we manage to find the baddie and make it out alive with no casualties...


Good night

Linki @ glad to see you're taking my advice I didn't say there's a standard baddie behavior. It's all about calculations...

Lizzy wrote:Of course! I'm just very curious if TH isn't playing us all, which would be amazing.

This just seems like grasping to me.

Turnip Head wrote:I'm so paranoid right now.

Why? I think it's fairly simple. Either I'm missing something which will make me look either very scummy or stupid, I think it's a given

Lizzy wrote:Should I then change my vote to FZ and hopefully someone else does it and maybe we're lucky... I don't know.

Lol, who exactly will get lucky in that scenario?

Turnip Head wrote:I'm the only one who checked Llama. If I'm the insane cop, Llama is innocent. If I'm the paranoid cop, there's a chance that my investigation of Llama was correct.

So you're right that the odds of him being the baddie are low, but he's not completely ruled out yet.

Maybe. I'm too tired to think about it but my chart had the logic of if A then B , if not A then....(philosophy 101). It came out that it couldn't be. I don't think I made a mistake, but it's possible

Turnip Head wrote:Why don't you think it could be Llama, FZ?

I had a chart earlier, and I lost it...I went to play basketball and came back and I can't find it
Anyway, from my calculations, it seemed as though him being the baddie was not possible. So I think it's fairly simple.

Damn, I'm having connection problems.
Thanks INH for the trust

I'd love for us to find the baddie tonight, but during the night, I was already thinking that since there was going to be a lynch and a kill and so little players, I hope the dead civvies could win with the living civvies if they win. and if that's the case, I don't mind getting killed if it makes things clearer. Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty obvious Lizzie is the baddie, and it's kind of stupid not to vote for her, but I'll get over it

Turnip Head wrote:

FZ. wrote:TH's idea just made it very clear who could be a baddie, and even if you don't trust me today, you know that come next day, it will just get easier. I don't think there's a way the baddie can win this game.

You sound like a baddie who's upset that my plan worked.

I'm voting for FZ.

Really? That offends me. I hope I would sound more genuine as a baddie, lol. Go ahead. Since no one can really save anyone or block, it's obvious that this game will have to be a team work, which means in order for the rest to know who is what, someone has to die. If you think it's me, go ahead. you'll realize your mistake next day and vote for the right person

I'm here. I think this game is going to be very easy for us. TH's idea just made it very clear who could be a baddie, and even if you don't trust me today, you know that come next day, it will just get easier. I don't think there's a way the baddie can win this game.

I think Lizzy waited but didn't think it through. I loved the civ-innocent argument though. Very amusing. I don't think there's any other option but Lizzy

Lizzy wrote:I missed FZ there. FZ, was the wording - 'civ' or 'innocent'?

innocent. civ is my interpretation
okay, bye

I need to go. I'll be back in about 4-5 hours.

By the way, the poll was saying the night ended in about 7 hours. What happened? I got the PM, so I knew it was starting now, but is my time messed up, or did you all see that?

linki@ Ha. This seems too much, doesn't it? Aren't we supposed to get at least some baddie result?

Turnip Head wrote:Based on my investigation result, I am not the naive cop.

Did anyone check me?

I thought about investigating myself and narrowing my options in two, but your idea was better, so I did. You came out a civ. I'd like to think that since you came up with that idea, you really are a civ, but I'm not ruling out any options yet. Let's see what others have to say

linki @ that makes three innocent. What does it mean? Unless one of you is lying of course...