The Syndicate

fingersplints wrote:I hope you all see what I am saying

Okay, and what if DP obtained the charm by ways other than being the killer? What I've been saying is even if the story is true, the evidence isn't damning.

The impression I got from Sophie's posts was that people called her out on her behavioral change and she owned up to it. She didn't fight that accusation, she knew it was on point. But when splintsy called her for jumping on bandwagons, Sophie felt that accusation didn't have merit, so she fought back. I agree with Sophie that she didn't "jump" on the DP bandwagon; the DP bandwagon formed directly out of Sophie and Dom's discussion re: DP.

So Sophie yields to the suspicions of her that she deems to be reasonable, and gets defensive about what she thinks are the wrong reasons to suspect her.

I can see Sophie reacting this way as both a civvie and a baddie, but we've especially seen this behavior from baddies who hate being suspected for what they deem the "wrong" reasons, so I would like to hear others' thoughts.

Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:[snipped]
I just thought it was interesting.
How?
That wasn't the reason for my early vote-- you are conflating two unrelated topics. That's a reason why my vote isn't suspicious, not why I voted early.
You know the difference.

But you didn't give a reason for voting when you voted for Zomba. When you voted for DP last night, you said you might have a busy day the next day and you wanted to make sure you voted. When you voted for Zomba early, you just said "I voted". And then after someone called you out on the possibility of you voting a teammate first, you responded with:

Dom wrote:Also-- starting the vote on someone on your own team that early in the day?

Your Day 3 early vote lacked a complimentary RL explanation for its earliness, but that's okay, you didn't need it because Zomba was going to flip bad, and you could say afterwards that you wouldn't have started the voting on a teammate that early in the lynch. This all leads me to believe that your early vote for Zomba was a calculated move, drawn up to arrive at this exact defensive strategy.

Now you are going after DP for voting Vomps late; you are harping on the importance of vote timing, but you won't acknowledge that Zomba's teammates might have thrown her under the bus yesterday. You think it's more likely that they tried to save her, that DP specifically tried to save her. I've pointed out that Zomba didn't even vote to save herself. Why would DP put his neck on the line to try and save her, when he didn't even place the tying vote? Epi later came in and tied the vote - I don't see you going after Epi at all Dom - and it STILL wasn't enough to save Zomba.

If Zomba didn't vote to save herself, judging by her behavior yesterday, I think there's a good chance that her teammates gave up on her early. Which brings me right back to Dom's vote for Zomba.

LizKeen, I answered that question of yours in this post:

Turnip Head wrote:
LizKeen wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:And while we're talking about it, I really doubt that that's what the bottle does. I think it's more likely that Epi was targeted not by an item, but by a power from the baddie camp. Probably something like this:

Roles wrote:Macleish MacPherson - The Crooked Doctor - Can dispense medicine that does a variety of unsavory and often illegal things.

TH, Since I've posted about this before and you haven't commented I'm curious about this post. Why did you think MM was making this up and The Doctor actually did it?

Thanks for the help with the replacements. So everyone is now my little pony?
Because I thought MM was bad and so I thought he was lying about what the bottle did. Tbh it didn't make sense to me as an ability a bottle would have, so I thought he had used a doctor curse instead.

As for assuming DP is bad because he's got the two-headed elephant... I just think it's too early to conclude that. Items are moving all over the place apparently. In fact, I just ended up with the bottle item last night I'm pretty sure Epi had this bottle at some point, but I don't know if I got it from Epi or someone else.

This is an LC post about the elephant from Day 2:
Long Con wrote:So the Blond Beast of Bremen is now in possession of Black Rock's Two-Headed Elephant charm. I don't know if they did that to screw with the Celestials, or what... I think the Five Treasures are probably the Green Jade Hand, the Silver Buddha, the Two-Headed Elephant charm, the Ivory Arrow, and the Ivory Ball. Maybe the Silver Coin or the Amber Necklace.

Llama, do the Celestials know the five items they're looking for? Interesting if they do, because perhaps they would have gone for those items in the first poll.
I thought Long Con made a valid point about BR's elephant charm possibly being a Celestial treasure. The indy team has an item checker and an item thief, so they must have some way of knowing which items they want and who to target for them. If LC is right about the elephant being one of their five items, then maybe the Celestials stole the elephant from BR on the same night she was killed. That could mean DP is a Celestial.

DP could also be an item thief, of civ or indy variety, and stole the item from the Blonde Beast, or he could have had the item given to him by Casimer Jeck. My point here is I don't think we should jump to conclusions just yet. I would like to hear what DP has to say about this.

As for MM and Bass switching roles... it read more to me like they switched "places". Maybe they switched targets, or people targeting them switched targets, or they got to use each other's powers last night. I doubt it means they switched roles, that would be crazy and possibly game breaking?

LizKeen wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm seriously gaining nothing by this.
What are you talking about?
I thought catching up on the thread all at once would be most efficient and illuminating, but so far I've just read Day 0 banter, BF's will thing, then stuff I had already read previously, and then a bunch of back and forth among tons of people during Day 1 and none of it is really making any impression on me or sticking whatsoever.
Just keep reading dude, things get interesting soon. Stop posting random shit you find along the way though, we've all seen it already, just read and absorb :P

But didn't you just ask me to do that earlier? When I decided to focus on SVS and leave rabbit, LC and Vomp til later? (I'm going to wait until after the lynch to make that post because it may lead me in new directions) It appears that MP is seeing some of the things I was seeing. MM could be bad, I'm just a little scared to put a vote there since I know (and said in an earlier post) that the mafia was going to go after an easy lynch today. On the other hand I previously said it looked like SVS was trying to avert lynching MM and if she would turn out to be bad then it would seem she's trying to help a teammate. Whichever way MM flips is going to be very telling.

LizKeen, is this the question from Day 2 that you wanted me to answer? I didn't respond to it because I didn't really understand it. Can you word it a different way?

So... who are you thinking of voting for, Faraday?

My point was, Dom, this was you during the Zombarella lynch:

Dom (night before deadline) wrote:I voted.

Dom (later, in his defense) wrote:Also-- starting the vote on someone on your own team that early in the day?

And this is Dom, Day 4:

Dom (night before deadline) wrote:I'm voting now because I have a busy day tomorrow and don't want to forget-- for DP.

So why isn't your early vote for Zombarella because you had a busy day the next day or something? Why is it "I wouldn't vote that early for a teammate"?

I just thought it was interesting.

You voted around this time in the last lynch too Dom... but you brought up in your defense that you wouldn't vote for a teammate this early in the lynch... ellipses...

Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:So how did everyone feel about Sophie's responses?
I don't really know what she's responding TO, tbh. You know??

The whole situation's weird if ya ask me. I'm kind of confused about it.

That's exactly it. Her response was vague and weak. "I know I'm not playing like a civvie but I am one trust" is all she said. Her post about DF was in reply to splintsy I believe.

So how did everyone feel about Sophie's responses?

Dom wrote:I think her behavior throughout the game was a strong indicator that she wasn't on the same page as her team.
Was there distancing in that poll? Probably.
However, your "theory" (it's not a formal theory, you're throwing it out there for speculation's sake-- I think) requires an assumption that I voted for my own teammate. My theory does not require said assumption.
Also-- starting the vote on someone on your own team that early in the day?

I think both our assumptions are equally plausible as baddie behavior. I just happen to believe one more than I believe the other.

And voting your own teammate early has been done before. Zomba was an obvious lynch candidate Day 3, and as I said, I think there's a good chance they decided to throw in the towel early on her. Golden, the ringleader of the Vomps counter-bandwagon, was NK'd by the baddies, so we know he didn't have ulterior motives. I don't think the baddies saw the Vomps thing coming. They didn't have time to wait around for it to happen, either.

Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I'm on the fence about Dom at the moment. I have some concerns, not least of which he is that he threw the first vote on Zomba and is now trying to make DP's vote for Vomp look bad in contrast. For all we know, Dom voted for his sinking teammate first to distance as much as he could.

I'd be interested to know what Dom thinks of Sophie, and vice versa. And what they both think of Vompatti.

linki @ Dom: I guess you could say I find the timing of your vote just as odd then :P
No?
Because I didn't vote against a baddie?
Your theory requires that I voted to sink a teammate. Mine does not require that of someone.

Sophie is someone I have no real read on, tbh. I would need to do some reading. Vompatti? I don't know why people think he's bad. I haven't seen anything that makes me think he's bad yet.

I didn't say your vote was odd because you didn't vote against a baddie. I said that baddies think a lot about distancing. Look at Zomba's vote for AP; she didn't even wait herself to see which way the wind was blowing, what makes you think her teammates voted to save her if she didn't vote to save herself? Her vote is a strong indication to me that the baddies had already decided to throw Zomba under the bus. At the time, it looked like it could have been civvie desperation, but now it's clearly baddie exasperation. As such, I don't want to read too much into the Vomps voters when I think there's just as many baddies if not more hiding in the Zomba voters, and we still don't know Vomps' allegiance.

Epignosis wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Ironically, I feel like I'm the only person in this game paying any attention.
Yeah...
My turn to ask you one, fucking thief.

What do you make of Dom?

I'm on the fence about Dom at the moment. I have some concerns, not least of which he is that he threw the first vote on Zomba and is now trying to make DP's vote for Vomp look bad in contrast. For all we know, Dom voted for his sinking teammate first to distance as much as he could.

I'd be interested to know what Dom thinks of Sophie, and vice versa. And what they both think of Vompatti.

linki @ Dom: I guess you could say I find the timing of your vote just as odd then :P

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:You originally said you ended up with the bottle, and you don't know who you got from. Also, you say that you'd rather not talk about how you came upon it. Why bring it up in the first place?
I already said why I brought it up.
You brought it up as a defense of DP?

Yes MM. I thought he was gaining undue heat for what the paper said about him. For all we know, what was in the paper could be a red herring. If I think an unfair bandwagin is forming, I'm going to intervene.

Epignosis wrote:Ironically, I feel like I'm the only person in this game paying any attention.

Yeah...

Metalmarsh89 wrote:You originally said you ended up with the bottle, and you don't know who you got from. Also, you say that you'd rather not talk about how you came upon it. Why bring it up in the first place?

I already said why I brought it up.

Dom wrote:Th do you want to comment on the timing of DP's vote in the last vote or are you going to continue grandstanding about items?

I'm not grandstanding. And I mentioned earlier that Vomps could just as well have been a baddie as Zomba was. Zomba did not vote for Vompatti, she voted for AP. I think Zomba's teammates can likely be found on both sides of that lynch. But DP's explanation for his Vomps vote was satisfactory for me, I guess. I was thinking she sounded sincere too before she hanged.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:So here is my main question. If Turnip Head is one of the roles that allows him to steal an item (Tim Waldo, Sophie Kratzenschneiderwümpel, Casimer Jech, Luke McCracken, or Ichabod Chang), what good would it do him to come into the thread and say he "just ended up with the bottle last night"?

TH, why do you think you ended up with the bottle?

I was demonstrating that anything can happen with the items. Maybe DP has the elephant charm, maybe he doesn't even have it anymore, and that could mean any number of things have happened. I didn't expect to end up with the bottle last night, but that's what I got. I'd rather not talk about how I came upon it. But I didn't think DP was bad because of what was in the newspaper, and some people did think that, and so I've been interested to see how discussion has gone since then.

I don't need you pencilin' me nowhere!

You could just say I was in the right place at the right time.

It's a true story though, Marshy. I have your bottle now.

In her last mention of catching up she said she was only a few pages behind, and after that she was discussing things that have only recently occurred, so I would imagine she is caught up now.

splintsy can you talk about why Sophie is your strongest suspect?

Epi, considering that you just hosted her, what do you make of Sophie so far?

Elohcin wrote:well, I really meant who was the first to bring up a case on vomps the day of Zombs lych. Who started the push for it and convinced others to vote him?

Looking back, there wasn't a case per se as much as a collective decision to vote Vomps because of doubt re: voting Zomba. Golden was the first to mention Vomps as a lynch candidate. Hell, Zomba didn't even try the Vomps angle herself, she quickly voted AP when talk started to turn toward voting a low poster. And look at this Golden post:

Golden wrote:So I voted vomps. I hope that, in the end, vomps dies and zombs is saved. Thats my goal today. I am not 100% sure zombs is good, but I do think she could be given more time to prove herself.

Golden died last night, his final actions were campaigning hard to save Zomba by voting Vomps.

I think Zomba's team likely gave up on her early in that lynch, as the Vomps thing didn't pick up until very late in the lynch cycle. Teammates don't have that kind of time to wait around when they feel they need to distance themselves from a situation. I think it's just as likely that Zomba's teammates voted for her as it is that they tried to save her. I also think it's possible that Vomps is bad too. That could have been a baddie vs. baddie lynch.

I think that was Golden, but I'll go back and check.

LizKeen wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:And while we're talking about it, I really doubt that that's what the bottle does. I think it's more likely that Epi was targeted not by an item, but by a power from the baddie camp. Probably something like this:

Roles wrote:Macleish MacPherson - The Crooked Doctor - Can dispense medicine that does a variety of unsavory and often illegal things.

TH, Since I've posted about this before and you haven't commented I'm curious about this post. Why did you think MM was making this up and The Doctor actually did it?

Thanks for the help with the replacements. So everyone is now my little pony?

Because I thought MM was bad and so I thought he was lying about what the bottle did. Tbh it didn't make sense to me as an ability a bottle would have, so I thought he had used a doctor curse instead.

As for assuming DP is bad because he's got the two-headed elephant... I just think it's too early to conclude that. Items are moving all over the place apparently. In fact, I just ended up with the bottle item last night

I'm pretty sure Epi had this bottle at some point, but I don't know if I got it from Epi or someone else.

This is an LC post about the elephant from Day 2:

Long Con wrote:So the Blond Beast of Bremen is now in possession of Black Rock's Two-Headed Elephant charm. I don't know if they did that to screw with the Celestials, or what... I think the Five Treasures are probably the Green Jade Hand, the Silver Buddha, the Two-Headed Elephant charm, the Ivory Arrow, and the Ivory Ball. Maybe the Silver Coin or the Amber Necklace.

Llama, do the Celestials know the five items they're looking for? Interesting if they do, because perhaps they would have gone for those items in the first poll.

I thought Long Con made a valid point about BR's elephant charm possibly being a Celestial treasure. The indy team has an item checker and an item thief, so they must have some way of knowing which items they want and who to target for them. If LC is right about the elephant being one of their five items, then maybe the Celestials stole the elephant from BR on the same night she was killed. That could mean DP is a Celestial.

DP could also be an item thief, of civ or indy variety, and stole the item from the Blonde Beast, or he could have had the item given to him by Casimer Jeck. My point here is I don't think we should jump to conclusions just yet. I would like to hear what DP has to say about this.

As for MM and Bass switching roles... it read more to me like they switched "places". Maybe they switched targets, or people targeting them switched targets, or they got to use each other's powers last night. I doubt it means they switched roles, that would be crazy and possibly game breaking?

LizKeen, what do you think of Epi? What do you make of Vompatti?

As for DP having BR 1.0's elephant charm... I'm not sure we should draw too many conclusions from that just yet. It seems that people have ended up with different items than they started with, and there's a variety of ways to do so. It also appears that false information might be able to be planted in the newspaper

But it is an interesting observation and something to keep in mind. DP, who are your suspects?

As for me, I'm far more interested in the curse placed on SVS, and why Epi thinks LC has info on him, and whether or not LC will be posting anytime soon.

Frankly I find myself having trouble comprehending some of the events of last night. I'd like to hear what the Con has to say about this.

Yesterday LC was pushing his case on Epi. In light of the Zomberella lynch, are you still pursuing Epignosis today? And in any case, where else do you think we should look for baddies?

And welcome back MM. Again, I'm sorry for my part in your lynching. I really thought I was on to something. You can put that bat away now.

Rest in peace Golden

Night has ended, happy mafia dawn everyone

I'm just teasing. I can't wait to see how this all shakes out.

Ignoring you sounds like a good idea

What if Epi was cursed with something like "You can only use five vowels for the next 48 hours"? That would somehow be even worse.

juliets wrote:LC, I just noticed that one of your issues with Epi is he looks as if he had a curse on him to answer questions with a "yes" which you think is possible he made up. I think I can prove he didn't make it up. I chose a rare book as an item and the book had the power to make people say "yes" to questions asked of them. I really didn't see how that was useful because I thought people would see through it but anyway it got stolen from me. I believe it was used on Epi.

That is very interesting juliets. Your book was stolen from you before Day 2?

Who said I'm so focused on you? I guess my vote does make it look that way... I just said we will have words. You're right that I'm trying to reevaluate everything. I've got plenty of things I'd like to discuss.

Long Con wrote:What is this, are you TRYING to get nightkilled?

No no no, that's definitely not it.

I will speak more in-depth tomorrow.

We will have words tomorrow, Con. Unless the baddies kill me so you can play the WIFOM game

Long Con wrote:Is that how Epig posts? From his phone? Ever?

Also, I consider the Celestials to be the greatest asset the Civs have right now. I'd like to seriously encourage them to steal from me tonight. Ichabod, I'm wide open. Send in your PM to steal from me.

I don't know, but I know I post from my iPhone like at least 50% of the time I'm playing mafia, so... please baddies, don't make me do it.

And LC, I thought you said someone already stole your item?

Long Con wrote:And I say "supposedly" because that curse gave Golden one vote for every vowel he used. You used AT LEAST 5 vowels that I was aware of, and I didn't even have to look that hard. 5 would have tied you up with Vomps and Zombs, and one more would have put you over the edge. And yet you didn't get lynched. Interesting. Why did you fake being cursed?

It is interesting that it wasn't a curse that prevented him from sharing his thoughts, like most curses do, but in the end what it really did was make it more difficult for others to talk to Epi/ about him... but of all the curses a player could fake, the "no vowels" one might be the most obnoxious fake curse you could come up with for yourself. It must be a bitch to type like that for 48 hours. Especially if you play mafia from a phone that has autocorrect, I mean holy shit are you kidding... I don't know why anyone would ever willingly undertake such a curse. I hope that never should such a curse ever befall me. I'd rather be silenced again tbh.

I voted to go to Wabash. It is only two blocks away, so we won't have to walk very far to get there.

juliets wrote:Congrats Turnip Head - I just read the announcement!

Ricochet wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:There have been some interesting developments lately. Tomorrow should be an eventful day.
Ho purple.

Looks good on you.

Thank you juliets and Rico! I am all purply now, just like turnips

There have been some interesting developments lately. Tomorrow should be an eventful day.

Well done Zomba voters! It is nice to be able to talk again. See you in the next game Zomba. I have to admit she had me fooled, but I also thought MM was bad, so maybe it's time for me to reevaluate everything.

Long Con wrote:So, do you think that LizKeen said the Eartubes thing about Zomba in order to deflect suspicion from her, because they're baddie teammates?

If so, do you think TH is a baddie teammate of Zomba, because he defended her?

Do you think that?

I am interested to see how this plays out.

I'm going to vote Michagain as well.

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