The Syndicate

This debate is why I'm a big proponent of MVP awards or (something I haven't tried yet) alternate win conditions. MVP can recognize someone who didn't make it to the end but was a vital part of the winning team. Conversely if the game allows dead civilians to win it can recognize the player who was most instrumental in that victory.

Alternate win conditions would be cool in a situation where a civilian dies but the team still won, and this player was able to accomplish such and such, so they still win.

As The Syndicate evolves I think we'll see more stuff like this.

My Warcraft game definitely won't be a traditional mafia game since it features two identical teams of equal strength. But I think it will retain enough of what I consider to be the central concept: which players should I be trying to lynch/kill? I think people will figure out how to play it while they're playing it, which is very exciting to me as the host

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:No, I'd say rezzes are either pro-town or null. Nothing like bringing back a confirmed civ, especially if you have a protection plan in place. At worst the mafia has to waste a kill on them.

Though there's always exceptions, like the one time that a civvie with info was rezzed, then misinterpreted his info, made it obvious that he had info, and then ran a lynch train on me, his fellow civ

Or there's the case of rezzing the civ with info, then not believing the info, and ultimately second-guessing yourself as a result and trying to lynch said civ with info.

Ricochet wrote:Hey wait, remember that Recruitment game where I was rezzed and everyone suss'd me even more? Some rezzcruiting bullsuit, something... Good times. "Pro town", uh-huh.

Well okay, recruitment games are different. No one knew if the role that rezzed you was civ, bad, or indy, and you died at night, and there were more obvious rezz targets.

And hey, ultimately you weren't lynched there. Llama was rezzed too, and we lynched him for it, and he was bad. Pro town

Ricochet wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:No, I'd say rezzes are either pro-town or null. Nothing like bringing back a confirmed civ, especially if you have a protection plan in place. At worst the mafia has to waste a kill on them.

Yep. It happened, we did waste that kill, we still won (in a near lylo that was kinda mafia 1 vs mafia 2). Suck it town.

That speaks to a different problem entirely :P

No, I'd say rezzes are either pro-town or null. Nothing like bringing back a confirmed civ, especially if you have a protection plan in place. At worst the mafia has to waste a kill on them.

Though there's always exceptions, like the one time that a civvie with info was rezzed, then misinterpreted his info, made it obvious that he had info, and then ran a lynch train on me, his fellow civ

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Has The Syndicate ever had a game with hammer voting?

We've had games where votes weren't changeable, so a lynch post could come early if the result was a foregone conclusion. But no hammer in the traditional sense that I know of.

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Why is the issue of not revealing night kill roles slightly anti-town? We've had players who joined TS complain about it, but I've only played a game on JTM in which the players actively (and to often good result; like holy shit I'm glad I rolled civ in that one, because the mafia team was utterly steamrolled) made deductions based on who got night killed and what their role might say about that. Otherwise, I still have to witness a game here in which the players actively disseminate a night kill reveal (beyond the usual cop / sometimes hider / etc. mechanics that are prone to post-death clues or leads).

I think the alignment is the useful information, not necessarily the role's power. Especially in games with two mafia teams or more than one nightly killer.

This root vegetable here and I are on the same page.

Understood, but again, I see little "mafia team/rogue killer cleaning out the other mafia team/rogue killer" around here. Baddie / indy faction eliminations are usually announced, too. So it mostly doesn't weigh in much for me, because what I expect is usually for a civilian to be a night victim.

Using anecdotal evidence to justify an opinion. Mafia.

*votes Ricochet*

Ricochet wrote:Why is the issue of not revealing night kill roles slightly anti-town? We've had players who joined TS complain about it, but I've only played a game on JTM in which the players actively (and to often good result; like holy shit I'm glad I rolled civ in that one, because the mafia team was utterly steamrolled) made deductions based on who got night killed and what their role might say about that. Otherwise, I still have to witness a game here in which the players actively disseminate a night kill reveal (beyond the usual cop / sometimes hider / etc. mechanics that are prone to post-death clues or leads).

I think the alignment is the useful information, not necessarily the role's power. Especially in games with two mafia teams or more than one nightly killer.

Golden wrote:I think the biggest balance on an info role is this... make it too obvious you are one, and you get nightkilled. I was able to win Economics only by determining who the info roles were and taking them out.

Unless the info role also has an automatic night protect and high movement rate, eh ninja? jk we didn't want to kill you anyways

And it's not like it was difficult to figure out who had the info role in Economics I never outted myself, and I didn't make easy "sure thing" type of cases, but leading lynches on 3 baddies in a row was bound to get me nightkilled. Took you long enough to take me out, tbh :P

linki: I agree with most of that list, Jay, good stuff.

I also don't care for lynch switches as a baddie power. Lynches should be the domain of the civs, and to give the baddies a way to completely overrule that process is frustrating.

I wouldn't say role claiming is really a mechanic, so that's a cheap answer :P And most hosts tend to be very strict about it here because everyone hates it. I have a game in the queue that will allow it, but I have mechanics in place to make it risky.

G-Man wrote:Silencers have one thing going for them though- they sow the seeds of doubt about the silenced person. Many a silencer has gotten burned by getting caught self-targeting and also targeting a teammate (if baddie) in an attempt to build up credibility for that player.

Yeah, but on the other hand, that's really lame. :P

Epignosis wrote:An unlimited recruiter, whose recruitment power passes to the recruited players upon the recruiter's death. Unless the recruiter is lynched Day 1 (or blocked Night 1 and lynched Day 2), the recruiter wins. This mechanic is inherently game-breaking.

This. I would understand if it just slipped the host's mind the first time this sort of mechanic popped up, but I've seen it twice recently and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it. The one time I saw a recruiting team work was in LOST Mafia on LP, where the recruiting power died with the recruiter, was every other Night, couldn't recruit roles with BTSC, and the recruited players lost their old roles.

My least favorite mechanic is silencing. It can make a player completely lose interest, and it's always used on an active poster so participation drops as a whole. I prefer insanifiers and cursers.