The Syndicate

I have a question, is the self-voting rule specifically a rule that you don't want people to break, or merely a mechanic that we can use as we wish?

The reason I ask. I am considering a strategy where I choose to self-vote in a Final-5 scenario, or encourage another player to do so. That person will survive until Final-3 due to being unkillable, and also be unchoppable on that final day. In that situation, the game becomes a 1v1 between the other two players, with that final immune player being the kingmaker. If that kingmaker is mafia, I believe that town would automatically win. If that kingmaker is town, they are the person who decides if their team wins or not based on their vote.

It's a strategy I'm interested in proposing, but I don't want to if it's against the spirit of the game, which is why I want to check in. I know it says that self-voting is prohibited, but this strategy takes advantage of the punishment dolled out for anyone who does break that rule.

Here was a strategy I came up with early on that I ran by G-Man, but we both agreed it was outside of the spirit of the game.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:54 pm Lol idk if you read in spec chat Marmot, but we were doing the same thing, just trying to get each other to F3.

That's amazing!! That's a win in my book

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:05 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:54 pm Lol idk if you read in spec chat Marmot, but we were doing the same thing, just trying to get each other to F3.
Lol so both of you pretended to SR each other when you both really TR’ed each other? Lol.

Yup! It woulda been a fun F3 with you

Gavial wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:00 pm Marmot was definitely the MVP there.
I knew Marmot had no plan to vote me at all.
Marmot didn’t TR me at all and he just called me a “night kill for mafia” after the NAA flip. Fortunately he was scum read enough by Wigly I could pull it through and also be the only player in the game to confident town read him lol.

Dunno if I'd call myself mvp. I did lead a chop on one scum and TR another.

But I did find you today, so sure I'll take credit for that, even if it didn't work out haha. Unfortunately Luckbox didn't quite get there

Guess I should have posted more lol

Oh damn, gg

Oh, I made it just in time for a tie

I probably won't be around at EOD

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:35 pm I'm probably voting Gavial

Also, RIP

We could probably go back and forth all day about which strategy is optimal, but in the end it's hard to determine since we don't know who the wolf is, and so the optimal strategy is different depending who's eyes we're looking through.

I feel it makes the most sense for each person to vote the person they think is towniest (or least scummy). In the ideal world, the townies find each other and the wolf is fucked. In a less than ideal world, that doesn't happen. But it does given each person a little more say in the matter.

Yes we could end the day in a 3-way tie. That probably isn't optimal, given the unknown factor of tiebreakers, so maybe we can recalculate if that is the world we end up in, but I think we should at least try that and see where we end up.

If you think I'm the wolf you probably shouldn't be voting for me.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:07 am Because if I think Marmot is the wolf then what? I vote you and we flip it three ways?

Marmot has to be made to vote for you or to explain wtf he is doing.

I don't know how the tiebreaker works, but I assume we win this game if the person who is mafia receives 0 votes and at least one townie receives a vote. As such. What is the issue with me voting for you? Why do you feel the need to play kingmaker? You've maintained all game that you have no idea what's going on, so why are you suddenly calling the shots in F3?

If you're town, it's actually kinda dangerous for Gav and I to vote each other. Mafia could remove their vote at the last second, guaranteeing that they'll at least end up in a tie situation, if not a win.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:18 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:01 pm
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:41 pm Where is Marmot?

I wonder if I should vote first here also...like if I vote for Gavial and Marmot is a wolf, then that would put him in a tough spot?

That's what we were asking about you Days 1-5 lol
Why are you voting me?

I think you're more likely to be town than Gavial. Why is there something wrong with me voting you?

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:18 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:29 pm
Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:28 pm All you had to do as Counter Offer (You and Luck instead of Me) or accept it.

Why straight out deny the entire plan?
Because at this moment, I think you're scum, so I'm voting the only other option.

It's sorta poe.
Why do you think Gavial is scum plz?

I already explained it.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:26 am Marmot,

You need to vote for Gavial and not for me
Thx...voting for me is a wolf claim.

Why is it a wolf-claim?

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:16 pm Insta voting means forget about thinking or trying just say fuck this game and vote someone.

Nah, it doesn't mean that at all. If I never post again, that would be true, but I will continue to post and contemplate.

I take it you're not done with this game either even though you've now placed a vote.

Like yeah, scum can also change their vote later etc, etc. But insta-voting is not anti-town.

We have 31 hours and votes are changeable. If anything, getting a vote on the table is pro-town. Scum in this situation is shooting themselves in the foot if they end the day with a vote somewhere.

Incredulity isn't going to sway me Gav. Please answer my question. What's wrong with insta-voting?

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:29 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:27 pm You can change votes, there's nothing wrong with insta-voting.
Well I’m town and if your town then that makes Luck wolf.
Why would I insta vote?

What's wrong with insta-voting?

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:28 pm All you had to do as Counter Offer (You and Luck instead of Me) or accept it.

Why straight out deny the entire plan?

Because at this moment, I think you're scum, so I'm voting the only other option.

It's sorta poe.

You can change votes, there's nothing wrong with insta-voting.

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:22 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:11 pm Sorry Luckbox, I know you want Gav and I to vote each other, but hopefully this is a desirable outcome for you too.
But why deny it?
Why not just say Me and You should do it Luck and Gavi decides!

But instead you just vote Luck and not for a great reason either.
If your town please start giving me a reason for either the Luck vote or me being wolf.

Deny what?

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:17 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:07 pm I actually think Gavial is the wolf at this point. He's been trying to get me chopped this whole game until today, and only now seems to be backing off of that.

I'm placing my vote on Luckbox for now. I may change it, but probably won't. [VOTE: Luckbox] aubergine
I’m not backing off of it I stated my point that I think you are town but paranoid you could be wolf.
It’s F3 so I want to think hard before making my final choice.
Can you discuss with me why you think I’m wolf now?

I just explained it in my next post.

Also, like I said before. I tried to maintain a strong TR on you to get you nightkilled, and it didn't work. Maybe there's a world where Luckbox saw through my ruse, but I tried to play out F5 in a manner that would suggest that I would always vote for you over anyone else in F3.

If Gavial is scum.

He is currently in a position where he needs votes, and at least one vote too. Luckbox offered him a choice where Gav and I trade votes, guaranteeing him at least one. This means that Gavial must entertain that both I am town (to make sense to vote for me), and that Luckbox is scum. It's hard to get someone's vote in that world, but Gav did jump on that offer.

If Gavial is town.

Gav seemed fully convinced that I was town up until today. I think Town-Gav sticks to his gut and votes for me today. But yeah it is the final day phase, so we must entertain all options, which is why he's not entertaining the notion that I am not town.

I think I'm still seeing the former of these two.

Sorry Luckbox, I know you want Gav and I to vote each other, but hopefully this is a desirable outcome for you too.

I actually think Gavial is the wolf at this point. He's been trying to get me chopped this whole game until today, and only now seems to be backing off of that.

I'm placing my vote on Luckbox for now. I may change it, but probably won't. [VOTE: Luckbox] aubergine

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:34 am The good news that in addition to obviously being not a wolf I'm also an ok late game villager

Problem is that I don't know how to read Gavial and respect his wolf game and don't know Marmot at all

GTH I think it's Marmot but it's like 60-40. Gavial thought process seems better but that's saying a lot.

What about your play makes you an ok late game villager?

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:50 am I mean if I have any defence that semi clears my slot the most it’ll be that NAA hard pushed me as being scum and scum painted me hard.

While I suppose it’s probable they could have done it if I rolled wolf it’s highly unlikely.

Yeah, but he didn't do it until after he was starting to get pushes for being yeeted. If it was happening beforehand, I think it'd be a better argument.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:41 pm Where is Marmot?

I wonder if I should vote first here also...like if I vote for Gavial and Marmot is a wolf, then that would put him in a tough spot?

That's what we were asking about you Days 1-5 lol

I'm sorry for missing the EoD, I got hung up elsewhere

Also. I actually was pretty certain that DrWilgy was town, and pretended to think otherwise to get us to a F3 situation where I had an easy vote. Do with that what you will.

That is no longer the case. Gavial, are you convinced enough in me being town to vote me today?

I'm slightly more inclined to think that Gavial is town than Luckbox, but I've said that over the last 1.5 days in the hopes that Gavial would be nightkilled. Gavial is still alive.

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:28 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:23 pm Take responsibility for your own vote. I'm not putting a gun to your head. I didn't make you vote NAA.
Excuse me?
I don’t trust you and think you could be wolf.
In the world where you are town and tunnelled Marmot when DoO is Wolf it is very damn well your fault for the loss.
I suppose it’s also the activity of this game to blame as well but the point is your not even providing any logical stance upon it, what have you done this game that makes you appear town or makes your reads make sense?

Like I don’t even understand how you came to the conclusion of your reads.
It would be your fault for activity as well because you can discuss things with me like why your voting DoO but choose not to.

If you're town, and we vote you out today, who do you think is nightkilled?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:57 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:11 am I am not your daddy, I'm just a big fucking squirrel.
Define a Fucking Squirrel.

I feel like I might break at least one site rule if I do.

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:13 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:10 am Never chop Wilgy.

Gavial I don't want to chop because if he's town, I want the nightkill tonight to be clear-cut. F3 is going to probably be harder if we go the easier route in F5. Is that a reasonable assumption of things?

That leaves Omega and Luckbox. I'd rather vote off Omega today. Luckbox has been far more objectively scummy throughout the game.
Wdym by Clear Cut?

I have tinfoil that you're actually mafia, even though I think you're town. So I'd rather just make mafia kill you then do it myself.

And if it's somehow you, me, and Wilgy in F3. I'm voting you anyway.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:59 pm I think if would be funny if marmot is the wolf. Some of what marnot has said has creeped me out for the last few game days.

We should probably kill Gavial and pray though.

This is a pretty townie post

I am not your daddy, I'm just a big fucking squirrel.

Never chop Wilgy.

Gavial I don't want to chop because if he's town, I want the nightkill tonight to be clear-cut. F3 is going to probably be harder if we go the easier route in F5. Is that a reasonable assumption of things?

That leaves Omega and Luckbox. I'd rather vote off Omega today. Luckbox has been far more objectively scummy throughout the game.

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:13 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:48 pm
Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:39 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:09 pm So we yeet in this order. DoO, Luck, Gavi, then Parity will be reached with Marmot and I.

Marmot will likely kill Luck then I'll pretend to struggle with Gavi then game will be over.
Why?
Why can’t it be Luck or DoO over Me or Marmot?

Marmot is town
I am Town.

If your town you just letting the mafia have a 50/50 chance to win today.
Idk. Prefer giving scum harder choices.

Will Marmot continue along out MAD and keep me alive? Will they kill Luck to force you to pick between he and I? Will they Kill you and make Luck sweat? If we vote out Luck or you, DoO is an easy NK. They aren't the wolf.
Yes

I'm fine with an Omega chop today. I think. Will continue to ponder. In a world where she's town, not having her vote tomorrow could be detrimental if she doesn't vote.

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:15 pm
Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:09 am Well I know Marmot thinks Wigly is scum as well but does Marmot also think it’s possible it could be DoO here?

I’m more paranoid on Luck but I’d die tonight if he’s scum anyway so I think from a logical standpoint it makes more sense to get me today.
If it’s DoO then Luck will always die.
If it’s Wigly, Luck or Marmot they probably all night kill DoO.

So if DoO is still alive tomorrow it would probably mean they are scum and Wigly almost naively voted to remove the wolf.

I don't think so. I think Omega kills a more vocal player last night, but I guess it's possible no kill was submitted and Dolby was the randomized target.
people think very low of my town and mafia play

makes sense I suppose

I will say this, I'd never put such low effort if I had wolfbros working so hard

That wasn't intended to be a comment on how good or bad your play is, it's an attempt to guess how you'd play the game.

Gavial wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:09 am Well I know Marmot thinks Wigly is scum as well but does Marmot also think it’s possible it could be DoO here?

I’m more paranoid on Luck but I’d die tonight if he’s scum anyway so I think from a logical standpoint it makes more sense to get me today.
If it’s DoO then Luck will always die.
If it’s Wigly, Luck or Marmot they probably all night kill DoO.

So if DoO is still alive tomorrow it would probably mean they are scum and Wigly almost naively voted to remove the wolf.

I don't think so. I think Omega kills a more vocal player last night, but I guess it's possible no kill was submitted and Dolby was the randomized target.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:48 pm
Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:39 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:09 pm So we yeet in this order. DoO, Luck, Gavi, then Parity will be reached with Marmot and I.

Marmot will likely kill Luck then I'll pretend to struggle with Gavi then game will be over.
Why?
Why can’t it be Luck or DoO over Me or Marmot?

Marmot is town
I am Town.

If your town you just letting the mafia have a 50/50 chance to win today.
Idk. Prefer giving scum harder choices.

Will Marmot continue along out MAD and keep me alive? Will they kill Luck to force you to pick between he and I? Will they Kill you and make Luck sweat? If we vote out Luck or you, DoO is an easy NK. They aren't the wolf.

Yes

I'm fine with an Omega chop today. I think. Will continue to ponder. In a world where she's town, not having her vote tomorrow could be detrimental if she doesn't vote.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:40 pm Also about Dolby
This dude did the complete opposite of me.
I spoke allot he didn’t speak at all.
Unless he died because he didn’t state an opinion?
I’d have to check the Dudes ISO to see if it might have been something they said previously that made them the kill.

I mean, he was pretty townie even if he didn't post a lot. That's why I suggested we chop him Day 3.

I dunno why we're voting Ruri, but sure. I'd rather mafia use their nightkill on Gavial rather than just chopping him.

[VOTE: ruri] aubergine

We're trending to a finish to this game that's going to contain a bunch of quiet people who aren't going to read posts I make today, so I'm starting to lose the will to bother posting.

Like yeah I'm town and I should be voted today, but as we run out of players promoting discussion, we're making our F5 and F3 scenarios that much harder and more of a crapshoot.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:11 pm @Marmot
What’s your opinion on DOOM?

I think that she is either deliberately or not deliberately avoiding engaging in any discussion that would involve stating reads on players, which for her, could be just a lack of motivation and not scum-indicative.

Her iso is void of content that is easy to form a read from. But GTH, I think she's town. A small part of me doesn't think NAA goes down as easily as he does if Omega is his partner. I think he pushes a different strategy yesterday.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:03 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:28 pm
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:16 pm I thought Wigly was villagery but I also thought Axe was villagery- which was unfortunate

Do you think they're teammates?
shouldn't you realize by now that I have no idea?

But if I think Wilgy was villagery then that is independent of anything related to Axe.

Is it typical for you to ask such silly questions?

Well, if you think he's not villagery, which you mildly suggested, that what indicate that Axe and Wilgy are teammates. I asked the question, because it could give you another framework to look at it, rather then sit back and say "I have no idea."

Why is it a silly question?

I do have another question, how do you think town wins this game, and how do you think we can go about making sure that happens?

I confidently think Marmot is town.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:16 pm I thought Wigly was villagery but I also thought Axe was villagery- which was unfortunate

Do you think they're teammates?

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:10 pm Like what I’m saying is if I put Luck, DOOM, Marmot and Wigly’s posts all as if they were the same slot and share the same post amount I still have more posts for this day phase.

K

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:13 am Dude this activity is fuckin dog shit, how we gonna find wolf if they barley speak?

This is what happens when we kill only the loud people every day.

I guess on the bright side, there's only one wolf left, and they can only win by being chopped.

Who wants to be chopped today?

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