The Syndicate

Okay I'm home from trivia now (couldn't resist checking in though...you people have ruined my actual real life social life :P )

I LOVED this game. I loved re-writing the songs. A friend of mine helped me pick and write the first one, since I'm a lot less familiar with Sondheim than other Broadway writers, and from there I did my homework and started listening to the songs and playing with lyrics myself (I felt so goofy, too, but in a good way). I'm glad other people seemed to enjoy them as well I'm also glad I got to exercise some actual civilian skills to the last day - it's something I've never been able to do since I usually get NK'ed in the middle of a game when I'm good. I knew I was probably being bamboozled in some way near the end, but it really was a crapshoot for me by the last lynch. I should go back to never trusting anyone, ever again, but I've said that before :P Win or no win, fabulous game, everyone! (And perfect timing before the long drive tomorrow). Congrats, winners!

Oh well. I was running out of song ideas anyway :P

Well played, ye sneaky bastards!

Screw it. I gotta leave again, so I'm gonna bite the bullet over Broadway and vote Daisy. Come what may.

Sorry, today's been stupid busy getting ready for the next few days

Golden, I hate to say it, but it's really a crapshoot for me. That was just logic analysis, and a late-night rather skimpy one at that. I actually gut-feel better about voting Daisy, and her quick vote, although I know she is busier than anyone, just felt weird. (Boy, this feels like Biblical Mafia all over again, except I'm not on the chopping block :P ) So, wanna vote Daisy?

God, this is stressful.

I looked over the kills, and unless I've missed something, Team Wildhorn seems to have only missed one kill on Night 4. Night 8 is still mysterious as there is no kill flavor, but given it's an even night, the attempt was likely made by them. There is flavor to whoever completes the NK, as evident in the difference between the Phantom killing (chandelier) and Starlight on Night 3 (rollerskating murderers). Dunno about actual Webber killings. For Team 2, sometimes the night post mentions that Bonnie and Clyde specifically do the killing; sometimes, there's only a gunshot, or a car, with no name attached to it, so it's difficult to tell who's doing the killing and when since the beginning of the game, although I assume it's Wildhorn until LC's lynch and B&C from then on, unless there's a second corruption. Which brings me to who's left for vote for.

Devin - Inactive. Not concerned at the moment.
SpaceDaisy - Replaced DREAM, a completely inactive player, Day 10.
Golden - Active entire game, but had a kill attempt made on him by Team 2 on Night 2.
Gumshoe - Inactive. Not concerned at the moment.
nijuukyugou - Good to the last drop
SVS - Replaced TH, a completely inactive player, Day 6.

LC was lynched Day 4. Black Rock was lynched Day 7. We don't know when/if Jekyll and Hyde were lynched exactly. Once again, Team 2 seems to have only missed one kill on Night 4. These facts altogether rule out Daisy for me. So I have two possibilities in my mind - SVS replaced a baddie TH, or Golden has been corrupted (but that wouldn't change him to Bonnie and Clyde). So, by logic, I'm leaning towards the former. I want to see what others think, and to see if I've messed up my logic/facts in any way (I've stayed up far too late for this). I'm done for the night.

YES!!!

I like your analysis, MM, and agree with your comments on the players for DF's last teammate. I usually like to add something of my own, but...you've pretty much said what I see in the interactions, too. I suppose I'll case your interactions with DF since you didn't case yourself. It seems he kept a light suspicion on you throughout the game to save in case he needed to vote for you without explaining it too hard and looking suspicious. Doubtful that you're his teammate since he kinda sealed your non-lynch Day 13, unless there's something about the Phantom we don't know. And you voted for him first yesterday. It's not unthinkable, but I don't think you're his teammate based on what I see.

While I agree splints is not on Team Webber, I do think she's on Team 2, and would like to take them down before they kill again. Putting my vote on her now.

Sorry, not silenced - just busy! I have a difficult time balancing more than one mafia game at a time, too. Gimme a moment to read and I'll comment.

Oh, very nice! Bye, Webber!

Popping in before I'm out for the night (might be back much, much, much later, depending on how tired I am after cocktails).

MM raises a good point about Golden and Sloonei not being NK'ed. It makes my paranoia sense tingle. I do think Golden is good based on the previous NK attempt and his recent (repeated) defenses. Sloonei already had an attempt on his life and a successful death (that sounds awful!), so maybe they're playing it safe, provided he's still civ? But good question - why are they still alive if they're such good civs? I could be paranoid all day with all of it. I probably will be. But not paranoid enough to vote for either of them. I ramble.

Anyway, I need to vote now, because I need to eat and get myself ready for shenanigans. I'm going with splints again. I think I've explained why many times.

Cheers, everyone!

Sloonei wrote:Ninja, splints addresses the concern about her habitually late votes in the last paragraph of this post, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it:[/center]

fingersplints wrote: JJJ

dfaraday is my strongest suspect atm so will place my vote there for now. Sloonei I am right there with you with still finding nijuu suspicious. I don't know why MM is trying to push her as a confirmed civvie. I don't trust him at all though, so I am not really surprised by that. I would consider voting for him or nijuu as well.

nijuu I'm positive I have had more then 3 votes actually with the changing votes. (off the top of my head the two you mention from DF, some from nutella, you at least once I think, one from Golden when silenced, and another from JJJ) Just because they changed off of me doesn't mean they weren't cast.

Golden, I vote as late as I can every single game (I feel like a broken record as I know I have said this before), but have needed to especially in this one where I have been under considerable suspicion for days. I'm not sure how anyone can fault me for holding my vote to possibly save myself.

This would be more convincing if she actually did have any days with a lot of votes on her. She has remained in discussion, yet has received less than 5 total votes. I'm not including changeable votes, and even those were not significant enough to warrant what she says above, if I recall correctly.

DFaraday wrote:I really thought I was going to die. I'm going to switch to MM just to make sure, but I do think there's a good chance of him flipping bad.

EBWOP: Ninja, why wouldn't I? I know I'm civ and I don't know MM is. I just want to make sure.

True. Thought about self-preservation after I posted! (It's weird being around real-time consistently lately)

And DF switches his vote.

Golden wrote:Ninja, which team do you think splints is on? If she is bad, I think she is on team two, which means she could wait a day for real discussion.

Team Two.

Sloonei wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:

Sloonei wrote:You are in a tough spot, no doubt. I want to encourage you to go for metalmarsh (my confidence about him is growing by the minute), but I'd rather take a chance on dfaraday than tie it up.
Is vote analysis the key reason why you suspect fingersplints?

Yes. I think I agreed before that her in-thread defenses sound civ, but her votes and timing of those votes make her look like a sneaky baddie. Voice can be manipulated. Votes can only hide you for so long.

Have you explained your interpretation of her vote analysis in a post already? I feel like I remember you doing it and I'll probably go dig it up myself right now, so I don't know why I'm asking. It's just what I do, I guess.

Haha, yes. I linked to it in a fairly recent post, so it won't be hard to find.

Sloonei wrote:You are in a tough spot, no doubt. I want to encourage you to go for metalmarsh (my confidence about him is growing by the minute), but I'd rather take a chance on dfaraday than tie it up.
Is vote analysis the key reason why you suspect fingersplints?

Yes. I think I agreed before that her in-thread defenses sound civ, but her votes and timing of those votes make her look like a sneaky baddie. Voice can be manipulated. Votes can only hide you for so long.

That being said, and those being my feelings, I am still debating.

Sloonei wrote:Ninja Blooper, if you're still here, what do you plan on doing with your vote? Do you think you'll keep it on splints or move it to one of the other two candidates?

Not sure yet, and I was just debating that. On the one hand, I trust Golden (and lean civ on Daisy) so their vote is tempting to follow, but my vote analysis of DF says otherwise.

I realized I haven't looked at MM's votes myself, so here's the same dealy I did with DF:
LC (1)
LC (1)
sig (7)
Long Con (2)
TH (only)
Cobalt (1)
Cobalt (1)
Cobalt (3)
Bass (2)
Hedgeowl (1)
Daisy (only)
JJJ (only)

He's voted players on both teams, but voted relatively late for sig (but then again, so did I), and completely avoids voting for G-Man. A lot of lone votes, but that's pretty normal for him. This vote record does look worse than DF's.

Here's my dilemma. I don't want to tie up the votes. Based on vote record, DF doesn't look bad, which is why I was asking why people are so adamant about voting him (if I'm missing something), because he's been discussed for a lot of this game. Do I feel confident enough in that short vote analysis to attempt to save him? Do I feel confident enough that MM is bad to do so? Do I want to move my vote off of someone I really, really think has done a helluva job of being bad and will continue to kill if she survives this phase? Not particularly, and I feel like I was that deciding vote last time around. Responsibility sucks.

S~V~S wrote: Do you think it is possible that the baddies have a role check and knew Nev was not bad? Generally, that is one of the most awesome baddie moves, being all self righteous about not lynching the popular candidate and lo and behold, they're a civ. At this stage i am inclined to go botd with you. But I am not as sure on MM. So putting a vote there now to be sure i don't miss again, but this may change.

Oh, that is absolutely a possibility. My gut wants to believe him. My paranoia says you could be right. Slippery marmot.

I looked back at DF's vote record and his vote timings. Except for a missed vote (Cobalt's lynch) and the first attempted lynch of Cobalt, his votes are pretty consistently early (as in, he's either the 4th or earlier person to vote a particular player). Numbers in parentheses is the order he voted that particular player:

SVS 1.0 (2)
Cobalt (6)
TinyBubbles (4)
G-Man (4)
G-Man (4)
Black Rock (3)
Black Rock (2)
Misses vote
Bass (3)
splints (1)
splints (only)
Neverwhere (2)

So we're trying to pin him as the Phantom? That would mean he voted for his teammate G-Man, twice, and early. If he's Team Wildhorn, he did avoid voting LC, but he voted corrupted Black Rock twice, and early, as well. That doesn't look right. Am I missing something in an ISO of him that negates these numbers? I really am asking.

SLOONEI WHYYYYYY WOULD YOU POST THE SADDEST THING EVER SHOWN ON TELEVISION WHYYYY

S~V~S wrote: Do you have an opinion on Golden or MM? Any reason why you think they may be buddying up to you so hard?

I think Golden genuinely (and rightly ) believes I'm good and wants to keep me alive for the civ cause (therefore making him civ in my eyes), and I'm inclined to think MM is good after the last lynch because he was the only one who actually voted away from Neverwhere, and his reaction to being lynched without a case gave me major pause. These are gut feelings I have. My gut has been worrying me lately, especially in the wake of being so badly tricked in Guess Who, so my paranoid self tells me that they (or one of them) could certainly be "buddying up" to me to gain my support and will have played me like a fiddle. But I think they're defending me because they don't want a civ to die.

I keep saying I'm going to look back at DF and I still plan to. I agree that if the case is just blendiness, then I'm not gonna swing my vote that way. However, Golden's process of elimination with players that includes DF, along with vote patterns and this general blendiness, would be enough to get my vote. I want to look at him myself, however, and not just vote with the crowd, because that hasn't been working out so well. I feel like I've said that a lot lately.

I need to go food shopping for a cocktail party and hang out with my friend who's been having a hellish time at work lately, but I plan to be back before the poll ends. My thoughts on splints haven't changed, and I'm glad to see more support of that in the thread today. I'll put my vote there for now. I'm also glad to see discussion of lots of people! Until later.

S~V~S wrote:Going to bed, i will be back in the AM. I am sure MM will "No U" me, lol.

Sorry to come out of the clear blue with this, but I think what i think. I left the thread after the whole "Well it's obvious" thing since the thing that was obvious to me was that I did not think she would do that, and yet another exoneration in a game based on role hints/claims etc was too much for me. And I am still not sure I think she would. So i am theorizing ways to account for that post. The recruit thing was one way, but i am sure we could think of others. We're smart folk.

In any case, i should have spoke my mind rather than walked away. I like speaking my mind.

Linki, thanks Ninjajujube~ food for thought.

Golden wrote:Grey, or purple? You just want it both ways.

I can, with heather!

S~V~S wrote:Do you think that someone who has a gossip role should use it as a platform for hard role hinting?

Short answer: No, with a "depends" clause.

Long answer: It depends on one's definition of hard role hinting, and that would be difficult to determine to make everyone happy. The job of the role is to express to fellow civs who should and should not be under scrutiny and lynched, and that may include the gossiper his/herself. Listing names of who should go and who shouldn't go could be considered role-hinting, by process of elimination. I agree with Golden here - other roles allow for protection, blocking, and gathering information behind the scenes about fellow players, and civs will use them to protect themselves if they're pretty sure they'll be targeted. The gossip role must maintain a balance since it's much more public than the more behind-the-scenes roles, but using it to lead civs away from lynching a civ, including the gossiper, by allowing them to do their own guesswork without the gossiper specifically saying, "Hey look, it's me, [insert player name here], I'm the gossiper!" is valid to me.

Now that you mention it, I can see your perplexity - I think a lot of it stems from Golden's (and others) seeing it as black and white. Me, I like being in the gray area.

Golden wrote:Ninja, purple looks good on you.

Finally updated my spreadsheet. I'll look at it more closely in a moment, but it looks like I need to address something first because I know it's driving her mad

S~V~S wrote:I want to hear from her; that might give me some understanding of this.

I assume you're referring to me? And you're right - you know my hatred of role-claiming. I haven't claimed any role, so you're not crazy if you've scoured my posts for anything of the sort and didn't find anything There has been deduction and speculation as to what I am based on happenings in the game, not in what I've posted. I'm not sure if that answered your questions or eased your mind, so let me know if something else needs addressing.

Sloonei wrote:I am not singling you out per se, dfaraday, but your silence is the most suspicious of that bunch imo, for reasons i highlighted in my early ISO of you. Daisy and SVS are also unique cases.
I feel like splints has been an easy target all game, and am currently leaning slightly town on her.

Disagree with the splints assessment here. She has been mentioned by people, yes, but she has received a total of three votes all game, two of those from DF

I haven't updated my spreadsheet in ages, but plan to do that today. I originally leaned civ on DF, but mainly because I saw him as the easy target, which looks like for very good reason given what's been said in the thread lately (as in, it looks like it's for good reasons that he's on the chopping block). I will come back with a fresh perspective on him later. I tried to look at roles that might have a funereal theme (y'know, for the mystery kill-fail of Scotty) since the host post had a funeral flavor, but couldn't come up with anything (I'm not familiar with a lot of the musicals listed). Also might use the Power of the Internet! to do more research into that, if it is warranted.

That is all for now.

DAMMIT

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:This here is a pretty sexy EOD. That's more like it.

This made me laugh out loud for real

Fuck it. I can't trust anyone and there's like 5 minutes left. Let's make this easy - even though I'm hesitant because of the enthusiasm to vote her, I still like the points made about Neverwhere, and I doubt anyone else will show up to do otherwise. Plus, the last half hour has made me a little less disconcerted about it. So, voting Neverwhere.

THIS IS SO STRESSFUL

Golden wrote:Ninja, would you be on board with MM?

Yes, mostly because I'm concerned about everyone being "on board" with a Neverwhere lynch, including myself. I like your points about MM setting up JJJ and he's a slippery fish marmot semi-aquatic to aquatic animal. It's not as strong as my splints suspicion, but I'd feel better about it than Neverwhere in the wake of what's happened in the last hour.

fingersplints wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

fingersplints wrote:Fell asleep and almost missed the poll.
voting Neverwhere
MM's has some interesting points on JJJ but I am not sure I buy it.

Why Neverwhere?

What points of MM's did you find interesting, and why aren't you sure you buy it?

Agreed. This posts pings me something awful. If you are panicking about almost missing the poll that you still had over an hour to vote in, how come you had time to supposedly read through the points on MM enough to not buy them?

Or did you come in because you were being suspected again?

Linki - Oh, it never works like that, JJJ This game keeps me awake so many nights.

It doesn't take that long to read a post. It takes loads longer to click on all those links.

I came in because as I said I woke up and remembered I didn't vote. I'm not making up that it's 4 am and I want to go back to sleep. I never stopped being suspected so that one comment is pretty silly. What do you think someone called me and said "hey get up you have one vote! Quick! To the thread!"

Also JJJ never said it pinged him. Just asked why. Why are you putting words in his mouth?

Oh no, I meant it pinged me, and I agreed with his "why Neverwhere?" comment. That was poorly worded, I admit.

Golden wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I voted for Neverwhere. This thread is dead, maybe someone will care.

I care. I would like to lynch MM, but if the group feels Neverwhere is our best move, I am willing to go along. Quite frankly MM's actions continue to look like abaddie trying too hard to pull the puppet strings and I fail to see why no one else feels as strongly about him as I do. I don't really have any feelings about neverwhere so if those I believe to be civ have strong opinions about needing to lynch her I am willing to listen to that.

Do you have long enough to hold out and see what sloonei does? He is silenced but I assume can still vote.

There is still ninja and SVS after that. We only have an hour. If we can wait and see what others think it will be ideal.

Otherwise I'll go along with neverwhere

What concerns me is that just about everyone who is voting/has voted today has expressed being okay with a Neverwhere vote.

MM voted ages ago.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

fingersplints wrote:Fell asleep and almost missed the poll.
voting Neverwhere
MM's has some interesting points on JJJ but I am not sure I buy it.

Why Neverwhere?

What points of MM's did you find interesting, and why aren't you sure you buy it?

Agreed. This posts pings me something awful. If you are panicking about almost missing the poll that you still had over an hour to vote in, how come you had time to supposedly read through the points on MM enough to not buy them?

Or did you come in because you were being suspected again?

Linki - Oh, it never works like that, JJJ This game keeps me awake so many nights.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hi niju!

nijuukyugou wrote:I like my previous findings and feelings about splints, and am likely to vote there, as I have been for a few days now. Others have been dissuaded from doing so, so I'll ask before I jump the gun - why not splints? I'm also hesitant because while I usually like what my gut says, it hasn't been as great in the latter half of this game as I'd like.

The easiest response would be that for me, splints boasts a similar attribute to you -- she performs well on the tone test. The deeper into the game we go, particularly after so many bad lynches, the less confident such a read should be. If you could summarize your suspicion of splints in a couple sentences, how would you do so?

Yes, that was my hesitance, too - when I went back and read her defenses, they do sound a lot like mine, especially where she says that she's "not that shitty of a mafia player" (which made me actually laugh out loud because I've said and would say almost the exact same thing in the future). My main suspicion relies on her opportunism, as stated in my previous case against her. There are several instances of votes for people she suddenly suspects with little to no prior mention of them, and making it so she can talk her way out of just about any lynch result (the case is a lot more specific than that, but you wanted a summary). Funny thing is, I don't see this as shitty mafia playing at all

There are so many names being tossed in as possibilities and with so few people left

Read Marsh's case on JJJ. Found points of it sound, especially about avoiding civ lynches while also pushing for them. I've done that as a baddie. But I also like JJJ's defense, mostly the tone. Seemed genuine.

Somewhat like the Neverwhere cases being thrown around. Already mentioned this in a previous post.

I like my previous findings and feelings about splints, and am likely to vote there, as I have been for a few days now. Others have been dissuaded from doing so, so I'll ask before I jump the gun - why not splints? I'm also hesitant because while I usually like what my gut says, it hasn't been as great in the latter half of this game as I'd like.

It seems I'm inadvertently channeling Rorschach in this post

Linki - I care! Hi JJJ!

I re-read Sloonei's case against Neverwhere, which looks mostly based on how she didn't explain her suspicions enough, especially regarding Golden (saying he's "acting different" and that she'll "keep an eye on him" because he's bound to be mafia sometime). Yes, this behavior is fishy. I agree. I might even vote for her because of this, what I said in my last post, and because it's different from what we've been doing for several cycles, which hasn't been working.

What I don't agree with is why Sloonei is so sure Neverwhere is mafia that he stopped in the middle of his ISO to say so, and why he's so sure that people who voted Neverwhere are civilian, based on these observations of her. They're good observations. But they're not so good that you can make such a claim of being "sure," especially of her voters, when there hasn't been any flip. Nutella was wishy-washy, and she flipped civ. You're also so "sure" about me that you have refused to consider what I and others have said in my defense, brushing much of it off with "this is where you and I disagree" and asking for answers to questions I have answered multiple times. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're civ, which I believe you to be, then be careful about what you believe to be "definite," because at least one of those things is wrong. Me. Me! The suspicion of me is wrong! Nothing is sure in mafia except my civvie civvieness and I'm wary of your "sureness."

Question away from that - what do you think of splints, Sloonei? I believe you were leaning civ before, but has anything changed?

That being said, being absent is also not helpful for any alignment, especially civs because either a) the inactive player is civ and not around to baddie hunt and is an easy target for mafia to kill or b) they're mafia and, given our hesitance to lynch inactives here, they can stay alive for quite some time. Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter.

Neverwhere, I hope RL is treating you better and everything is going well! Do whatever you need to do

fingersplints wrote:Stuff like "who is bad"

I wish Neverwhere would have at least addressed some of the accusations. I do not doubt she has RL issues, but it's hard to believe she isn't bad when she offers no defense whatsoever.

I don't think this reaction (or lack thereof) has any bearing on her alignment. If I thought I was out of a game and had no intention of returning or catching up, I wouldn't bother to defend myself either way because my heart wouldn't be in it.

Popping in. I will be short, sweet, and popping out after this, because after a fabulous night with friends I haven't seen in ages, I'm exhausted today from the late night travel and need a little less...cerebral activity. I can't even think of a good synonym for that.

Sloonei wrote:For the people currently voting for or suspicious of Nutella: which team do you think she is more likely be on? Why?

Based on vote record, probably Team Wildhorn.

I think her suspicion of splints is contrived (I expressed this in an earlier post), as well as others she's voted for multiple times (e.g., Cobalt), to go for the consistency merit badge in case they don't end up flipping Team Webber. This also gives me pause: It all looks contrived. I do have a heart and I feel bad reading nutella's recent posts imploring others not to lynch her, but I've been both burned by and laughed behind the scenes at baddie pathos too many times to let it sway me away from what I see regardless. I see sudden enthusiasm for a Neverwhere vote. I can see that from the inactive baddie perspective, but I don't have strong enough feelings in that direction to change my vote.

OH MY GOD I DID IT THE SPOILER TAG WORKED

Actually, since votes are changeable, I'll go ahead and put mine on nutella.

Hi, Sloonei! Welcome back!

Sloonei wrote:Hey all! It's great to be back! I've followed along pretty keenly since being killed and my opinion on ninja has not changed. She's getting my vote unless someone can convince me I've been wrong this whole time. I do not think I have been. I saw Golden hint a few times at her being some specific role, but I do not know what that is all about.

You, my friend, are the poster child for tunnel vision. You come back from the freaking dead with guns ablazin', despite everything that has happened since your absence. I have defended myself against every point you have made and then some, and I'm not doing it again because I'm growing bored of it, as I'm sure others have also in the thread.

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think I know what role Golden has assigned to ninja. I don't know how he came to that conclusion, but it seems pretty obvious through the context clues in his post history. And the fact that he's [probably] silenced despite being ninja's loudest supporter should be a good reflection on ninja, right? All of these dynamics are muddied with two mafia teams, but I think that needs to be acknowledged still.

I do not think this reflects on ninja in any way, because two mafia teams. We have no idea who's doing the silencing. It could even be one of our independent friends.

You're not even listening to reason here. "In any way"? Really, dude? I have done everything in my power to show that I'm not bad. If you lynch me, your rezz will have been nullified and you will lose a valuable civ. But whatever.

We do agree on a point - nutella. I think either she or splints is bad, and I will probably vote one of them this phase. I will be absent for the rest of today due to traveling and visiting the most awesomest family in the entire world but I will be back tomorrow to discuss and vote.

Dammit. RIP Hedgeowl Screw nighttime silence! I should be scared, but pfffffft.

nutella wrote:Oh my god I can't believe I fucked up AGAIN. Just like the other time, I was saving my vote for when I got back from work, and then immediately got distracted by friends (we went to see Ant-Man which was HILARIOUS). So sorry I missed it. I honestly can't say for sure whether I would have ended up going for Hedge or Splints. I see Splints finally actually defended herself, I still have an eye on her but am not as confident.

Something pinged me about this post, so I read back at nutella's posts lately, and she has A LOT of comments like this:

nutella wrote:Okay, so there are pretty strong cases that Bass, Cobalt, and Splints are bad. Bass and Cobalt look like they'd be on Team Webber, and Splints looks like Team Wildhorn. At this point I'm feeling about equally confident in all three cases, so I'm relatively equally willing to lynch any of the three. My inclination is, because tonight is Wildhorn's kill, that it should be priority today to vote for Splints. But when I think about it, she's probably not the last member of the team, there is probably one more left, so it's not like lynching her would prevent the kill, right? So actually the order doesn't really matter... whatever, I will be voting for one of the three, and it looks like Cobalt is the most likely at this point. Just wondering if anyone else had this thought though -- I find the Splints case really very compelling, and if there is much of a chance that she's the last member left, it would behoove us to get rid of her before the even night. But as it stands that doesn't seem super likely and I'd be happy to lynch Cobalt as well.

nutella wrote:Another survival! Glad you made it, Scotty.

I'm definitely interested in lynching Bass today, or maybe splints -- still need to hear more from her.

nutella wrote:God damn it


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.

nutella wrote:Ninja's defenses keep reading genuine to me, so I'm going back and forth on her and right now thinking she's more likely civvie. As for my comment about her teammate(s) piling on, I realized if she's bad she almost certainly only has one teammate, but I still think that if so then that player could possibly be one of the last Bass votes. But yeah it's not enough to make that a reason to suspect her further.

Right now I am more interested in lynching Splints, the case on her just gets more and more solid. JJJ has interesting thoughts on DF as well, DF has totally blended into the background for me and I could see him either way.

etc., etc. You have mentioned splints in your posts for days expressing vague suspicion (nothing even concrete) and yet you haven't voted for her a single time, or really pushed for her lynch. I'm starting to think you're not being very genuine about this suspicion, which either tells me a) you're extremely wishy-washy, b) you're being opportunistic and waiting to see if anything catches on before you vote (but you did that before with me and other civs), or b) you're distancing from a teammate. Thoughts?

Epignosis wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:I'm going for splints.

Mmm...

...I appreciate free thought and everything, but I'd have sure rather you'd voted Hedgeowl than fingersplints.

mmm hmm.

Go on then wit'cha bad self - you still have a vote. She was my second choice.

I'm going for splints.

fingersplints wrote:

fingersplints wrote:

nutella wrote:Oh wow the case on Hedge is a really really strong one. I think she and splints are both very likely to be on wildhorn. So I'll vote for one of them but I'll wait to see if splints comes back to defend. (Or Hedge too but she seems not to be around?)

Golden, I'm not on team webber. I was highly suspicious of both Sig and Gman by the time each was lynched, and I was fairly vocal about it. For Sig, I may have been on the late side to get to the actual vote, but I had been repeating his name as a suspect for a long time -- I think I was one of the first people to tag onto the case someone (sloonei?) initially made and encouraged pursuing him for a while. For G-man, at first he was just annoying but by the day LC was lynched I was fully convinced that both were bad and wanted to lynch both asap.

I thought the points I have yet to defend are nijuu's angry case I am on team webber, and dfaraday's comment that I am oppurtunistic. Can you point out the wild horn accusations that I haven't addressed that you are supposedly waiting for?

Actually her points are just that I am opportunistic too. Same as dfaradays, who she is also defending by calling the suspicion of him a distraction from me.

I don't see my votes as opportunistic. Voting Gman to save LC, if I was LC's teammate would have been absolute suicide. With the amount of heat LC was taking since the start of the game it would be stupid for any teammate to try and save him. I also think if I were on that team it would have been stupid to recruit BR after I blatantly defended her early. I at least understand that suspicion more, but it would have been a terrible move for me, and I'd like to think you don't all think I am that shitty of a player.
I don't see me or anyone else agreeing to the Sig or Gman case as opportunistic. Both were super obvious. There wasn't much else to be said there.

Thanks for responding! I don't think you're a shitty player at all - I think you'd be a rather good mafia for sneaking around for so long I see what you're saying, but one could make the opposite argument regarding BR's recruitment - that because you defended her for so long, she could be a great recruit for some good ol' fashioned WIFOM. Your defense does give me some pause, but there were plenty of people to hide with who also voted G-Man during LC's lynch.

I'm liking these points on Hedgeowl, however, and the idea of our absent player being a rather absent Wildhorn player. My vote will go to her or splints today.

Canucklehead wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:I'm here, off and on. Based on what I've read and been thinking about, I'm most likely to vote fingersplints. Personally, I think all this talk about DFaraday is a distraction and seems too easy again, but I'll read the stuff on him over again anyway.

Soooooo....if DFaraday is a distraction, who is doing the distracting? Shouldn't that be where your vote is going?

Hmm, good point. I was thinking the points on him and his DF-ness reminded me of the points being made by several people about Bass' lack of participation and general Bass-ness (at least what I've noticed in the last few games I've played with him) in lynching him. These players have made cases or points against DF since Bass' lynch and actually, now that I notice, after I made a case on splints:
- SVS (comments on his wishy-washy ideas on me)
- JJJ (makes a case)
- nutella (agrees with JJJ, explains but doesn't add commentary when questioned about her agreement. Noted that she expresses suspicion of splints, too, but she is "conflicted and confused")
- Golden (agrees with JJJ, adds commentary)
- Scotty (agrees with JJJ, adds commentary)

I'd be willing to bet at least one is mafia pushing away from splints, but I'll be honest - I dunno who, and I'd need more concentrated time to look into it that I don't currently have before the poll's ending. It would also depend on DF's alignment, but since I'm leaning civ on DF and I've got that bias, that's where my opinion stands. It just bothers me that when splints is brought up, it seems that the subject is changed quickly to someone else, often an "easy" target. Thoughts?

I'm here, off and on. Based on what I've read and been thinking about, I'm most likely to vote fingersplints. Personally, I think all this talk about DFaraday is a distraction and seems too easy again, but I'll read the stuff on him over again anyway.

Canucklehead wrote:What do you make of Golden's long-ago theory that the baddies, seeking to cover all their bases and maximize their chances at advantage, made sure to have voters in both the Boubil&Schonberg night poll options? Does this seem plausible to you? If so, who do you think of the limited pool of Les Mis voters is most likely to be bad?

Oh, I certainly think it's valid. Every baddie team I've been on has had that strategy, so I wouldn't see them thinking any differently this game (unless there are a lot of absentee baddies that aren't discussing things). If I had to pick a baddie from the list of Les Mis voters, I'd go Scotty or FZ., but only because I haven't really looked at them. Sloonei is pretty much cleared up. I know I'm good So, yeah. That.

Now, I need to get off of here and do productive things, like start dinner. I probably won't be able to stay away, though :P

Canucklehead wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:
Do you not see this? Doesn't anyone else see this? This is the kind of BS that's been happening for DAYS. I could go through and pull so many quotes of people either totally disregarding any defense I have made, or actually agreeing with my defense but then backtracking and saying "but that totally doesn't make her good." What does that even mean? So you agree that I did a good job proving I was civ, but I'm not civ? That you came in at the last minute and tried to bandwagon on me? I didn't use "pretty words" to attempt to fool my audience - I used both logic and articulation to prove that I am a civ the best way that I could. (BTW this isn't directed only or necessarily at the people quoted above given missed votes, etc. but it applies to many.)

Now, Ninjarjarbinks. You're being just a tad disingenuous here. Acknowledging that your defense was good (i.e. well-crafted) does not mean I "agree" with it or that you've "proven yourself civ", it just means that you have ably employed language in order to present a picture of yourself that ticks certain boxes on a "How to Sound Like a Civ" checklist (you summarize the checklist quite well later on in your post, so I needn't repeat it here). Being skillful at sounding like a civ in no way makes one a civ, it just makes them a good mafia player. So, in response to your question, at least in my case "it" means I think your defenses have not made you seem MORE suspicious, and have done a good job of opening up doubt in my mind... which, obviously, in no way approximates actually "proving" that you are good. No defense, short of some massive info dumping, can do that. Such is mafia.
The thought processes you're so frustrated at are not "backtracking". They're logical.

That being said, I agree with both you and JJJ and SVS that we need to be talking about more suspects.

Thank you for responding and clearing that up, and giving me a chance. I was frustrated when I wrote that because I feel like I'm digging to get myself out of a hole, but I've calmed down now

P.S. Your never-ending variations of my name never cease to amuse me