The Syndicate

DharmaHelper wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:So the Emperor wasn't actually on the Empire team? That's...swell.

I'm interested in how the Empire was balanced against the Hutts, who had four players?

The Emperor was Empire aligned until he turned Luke.

Did the Hutts have a similar traitor/recruit mechanic available?

^^ (actual curiosity, not passive aggressive bitterness )

So the Emperor wasn't actually on the Empire team? That's...swell.

I'm interested in how the Empire was balanced against the Hutts, who had four players?

MacDougall wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:Fuck it. I'm voting for Simon. I hope you are all right about Enrique, but for me the case on Simon (mostly his bcornett "save attempt" that Golden pointed out) is the stronger case and more likely to net a baddie.

Here's another interesting Canucklehead as Hutt post...

Canuck did you know there are only 4 players who didn't vote Hutt in the entire game so far and only two are alive? One has twice the number of votes than the next and the rest all have alibis.

Canucklehead 6 votes and alive
Russtifinko 3 votes and alive, has dead indy vouching for him
Savage - 0 votes and dead, can't be Hutt
BCornett - Dead Hutt
Enrique - Dead Hutt
Luffy - Killed by the Hutts

Mac, I wish I had the strength to fight with you now, but I've already had a day that is SUCH ABSOLUTE SHIT and its only 8am and I have to leave to go back to the goddamn airport soon. I am not a Hutt. I am a civ. I've worked hard this game. I understand my vote record is garbage. I can't defend against that because that's just facts. But I am not a Hutt. Please don't get paranoid and stop trusting me now.

linki: I think Bubbles is a good candidate for Crumb. It will be interesting to see if there is a Hutt kill tonight, or if it is "mysteriously" absent

MacDougall wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... tt#p206999

Here's a monster wall of Zebra as Hutt analysis, but you didn't vote Zebra there, and didn't vote Zebra on the next day either. You didn't vote Zebra at all. You had soooooooooo much dirt on Zebra as Hutt but you never put your vote on her.

Because I agreed with you she might be willing to work for us!! Seriously. I'm not Crumb.

MacDougall wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:

Bubbles wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I see your unannounced vote there, Bubbles. There's no way you've been silenced.

i'm here, i've fallen a bit behind on the thread, added my vote to the one opposing the one dfaraday voted on basically :P and i'm pretty sure mac and matt are civs so i feel ok with voting the same as them

How do we feel about this?
Of all the people who didn't vote Z, I was very surprised to see Bubbles among them. If she had read even a teeny bit of the thread before voting (which, granted, doesn't seem to be a guarantee), she would have seen Z was an outed baddie. Bubbles seems like the LEAST likely person to vote away from a confirmed Hutt (she's relatively newish to mafia and therefore more likely to be traditionally minded, she doesn't usually go along with votes that are pushed by others just because they seem civ, she's usually risk averse, etc), so her hopping onto the Bullz votes just to avoid voting the same way was Faraday seems like absolute Bullsuit to me. I think she's our Crumb, and her lack of participation would explain the sporadic appearance of curses. (For the record, my curse had nothing to do with Crumb)
Thoughts?

You seemed pretty convinced, why didn't you bring this up again today? You haven't even mentioned Bubbles since even though Bubbles as Hutt came up in conversation between me and Spacedaisy in the last legit interaction in the thread and I basically said I read Bubbles as possible Hutt. For you to not pick that up and continue with your Bubbles Hutt read makes me think you had no conviction about it at all...

You're Crumb aren't you Canucklehead...

No, I'm not. I wasn't convinced of Bubbles, it was a new suspicion to me that flashed out after the vote, and the fact that no one else jumped on my suspicions when I laid them out discouraged me. I play a LOT by using and incorporating the opinions of others into my thoughts, so if no one I trust thinks my suspicons are worth following up on, I let them go for a bit unless I'm REALKYREALLY sure. Also, my suspicion was that Bubbbles was a Hutt, and I think Empire are more important.

MacDougall wrote:How about the part where Elohcin and Llama swooped into the thread on the day MP was lynched and tried to push Spacedaisy as a counterwagon?

Not forgetting that Zebra said that she had info that said Llama is dead Empire.

Shit. Did not notice/remember that. (Doing totally decontextualized ISO's when you've barely slept and are SO ANGRY AND HEARTBROKEN YOU CAN BARELY BREATHE does not result in fantastic scum hunting). I've kind of forgotten entirely about
Llama...or z's claim...but Eloh and he working to save MP coupled with my (totally less damning, but I feel better about picking it out now) observation above makes me feel confident about an Eloh vote.

So Eloh's ISO is 97% fighting with Roxy, 2% OT, and 1% saying Z is bad and voting for her. I don't think Eloh is a Hutt, since bussing doesn't seem her style. As for the possibility of her being Empire, there is one early game interaction with MP that actually struck me a LOT like the stuff I found between z and bcornett:

Elohcin wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.

It's hard to be bothered by MM's normal civilian behaviour.

Just what I was thinking.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:You guys are posting so much lol. I'm reading now but am tried so I might take a nap before I post.

Or wait until your teammates get back into BTSC so you can agree on what you should say? :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:am current on the thread, yes, but I'm still trying to get a hold on everything, since I've been catching up in spurts in between sleeping/feeling sick and doing PhD work.

Are you going to make us call you Dr. MP?

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Elo, you said you believe the people talking the most are civilian. Why? Also, you brought up mafia lying about real life; is there something specific in this thread that you are referring to, or was this just a commentary on what you've seen in general? I got a bit lost there.

I think so b/c they haven't done anything to ping me thus far. Except for Mac bringing up Matt's out of character behavior. The real life comment was only referring to previous games. I was only expanding upon the conversation on off-topic posts and whether they should be considered when suspecting someone.

well, lots of linki as I was all ready to post this and then Epi came in here to distract me for a little while. I'll read more after dinner.

This looks like one of those situations where somebody says something sketch in the thread (Eloh's comment about high posters=civs), and their teammate decides it's a great opportunity to do some mild distancing by questioning them, while also making sure the teamie gets to explain their awkward comment before it arouses too much suspicion.

I dunno. There's just not a lot to go on with Eloh since her number of non-Roxy, non-OT posts is about 12. This thing with MP did stand out to me, though. I'm just not sure if Eloh is a better case than GlorfinDaisy for an MP teammate.

Mac, you're right that MO could have encouraged SD to join in the mutual bussing...I do remember thinking her initial posts after she subbed in were genuine/civ-feeling, which is what is causing me to doubt what was (I think) a believable case for MP bussing Glorfindel (which is maybe why he did the clique complaint thing? Cuz his team was devouring him? Possible.)

I'm going to look at Eloh now.

What the hell, Matt?

That probably should have been I green, but I forgot due to BLINDING RAGE.

So, remember that time I was trying to be super conscientious and plan ahead for my holiday-travel-day-from-HELL by voting early but then I fell asleep and didn't think about until I was I. The security line at the airport BUT THEN I missed my FUCKING FLIGHT because American Airlines gate agents are incompetent tools and because of their absolute giving-of-zero-fucks I'm not only getting home and ENTIRE DAY later and about $300 poorer than planned, I'm also missing out on my 7pm assigned seating food and beer delivered to your seat showing of MOTHER FUCKING STAR WARS?

Yeah. That's what's happening right now. I'm really really pissed.

I need to vote in the next three hours, or before I fall asleep. Whichever comes first. I'm traveling home for the holidays and seeing FUCKING STAR WARS tomorrow, so I can't guarantee I'll be in at all.

Russ' vote for me out of NOWHERE is just lovely.

I don't know what's changed your mind about Wilgy, Mac...I'd like to hear more. How come wanting to be left alone isn't a baddie trait? That's (for me, at least) my number one goal when I'm bad, just to be left alone.

I want to look at Eloh/Z and Eloh/MP to see if there's anything to see there.

I'm on board with the idea that MP would bus SD...but would Daisy bus MP back?? I don't know her baddie game well enough to know if she's a hard distancer, but she seemed pretty eager to lynch MP if I'm remembering correctly.

Is Bullz still an option for today?

MacDougall wrote:Fucking semantics. The Hutts are alive still and Yoda said Sorsha wasn't one so I was wrong about Sorsha.

Leaves Dom, Canucklehead and Bubbles as possible Hutts imo. Not exactly fantastic reduction so let's focus on Empire.

Wilgy ... what you think of Elo?

Whoa. How am I a Hutt, exactly? Like, I legit don't get that thought.

Bubbles wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I see your unannounced vote there, Bubbles. There's no way you've been silenced.

i'm here, i've fallen a bit behind on the thread, added my vote to the one opposing the one dfaraday voted on basically :P and i'm pretty sure mac and matt are civs so i feel ok with voting the same as them

How do we feel about this?
Of all the people who didn't vote Z, I was very surprised to see Bubbles among them. If she had read even a teeny bit of the thread before voting (which, granted, doesn't seem to be a guarantee), she would have seen Z was an outed baddie. Bubbles seems like the LEAST likely person to vote away from a confirmed Hutt (she's relatively newish to mafia and therefore more likely to be traditionally minded, she doesn't usually go along with votes that are pushed by others just because they seem civ, she's usually risk averse, etc), so her hopping onto the Bullz votes just to avoid voting the same way was Faraday seems like absolute Bullsuit to me. I think she's our Crumb, and her lack of participation would explain the sporadic appearance of curses. (For the record, my curse had nothing to do with Crumb)
Thoughts?

Scary thought about possible recruiting. Definitely something we should keep in mind, but I am skeptical since Empire started with the same number as Hutts, and it doesn't look like Hutts had a recruiting mechanism or a power that could help balance Empire recruiting. I'm not sure if Epi/DH would give such a huge advantage to only one baddie team.

Bullzeye wrote:I see there are six votes left. I encourage you all to vote Zebra. It shouldn't take much, she's done the work for me. Look at the votes on me:
Zebra: An outed baddie.
Matt: Allegedly didn't mean to leave his vote there. The only person on this wagon I don't distrust.
Mac: Has been twisting my words and exaggerating my actions - lynch him next.
Canuck: Implied she thought Mac's vote for me was a bad idea, then followed it anyway and has essentially pre-emptively given him her share of the blame.
Bubbles: Okay seriously read that post and tell me it's a vote worth following.

A vote for me is a vote for a civ, and a vote on the shadiest wagon in history. There are densely covered patches of the Amazon with less shade. A vote for Zebra is a vote for someone who has dropped any pretense of being a civ. I don't think it's a tough choice.

Linki - I do think you're bad. I think you should be lynched next, and will vote for you next if I survive today. Then it will be a toss-up between Canuck and Bubbles.

That's not an honest view of me!
I'll take whatever blame may be
Due me once you're good and gone,
But I doubt we're wrong, young padawan.
Clever of you to try and cast
Aspersions on me while I'm blasted
With this curse and can't defend
Articulately. Smooth, my friend.

MacDougall wrote:Bullzeye is bad for the same reasons Elohcin is bad. Him pretending that nobody has made any remarks about why is bad is great. So is his amazing backtrack. Start of the day it was "we should lynch Zebra, obviously" and now it's "I actually think we should look at others, but not me."

Backtrack.

Interesting note, my friend.
I'd rather postpone zebra's end
(Though tomorrow she MUST die)
And make a play for an Empire guy
Today. So I will vote with you
Since Eloh's lynch cannot go through
Without a bigger popular swell.
I hope to Dog this all ends well.


The garment of life be it tattered and torn

I'm shocked Mac voted how he did,
That's not where I thought he'd place his bid.
I want to vote for Elochin,
She's shifty, and she blends right in,
Which tells me that she's tried to hide,
To always lurk just on the side.
But will my vote there be a waste?
What's the point? Yet I must make haste
To vote now while I have the chance.
I hate the tricky endgame dance!
To follow those I trust, but think
That their choices kinda stink?
Or branch out on my own for naught
Vote someone with no chance to be caught??

Jingle bell jingle bell jingle bell rock

I'm really unsure where to vote.
I think we'll learn less playing rote
And taking out known entities
Who cannot kill, and aim to please
(And that's just what Z claims to be:
I trust, but maybe joke's on me?).
Today, I'd rather find a choate
From th'Empire to get my vote
Since they're the ones who kill tonight
And they're the ones with strength to fight.
Then on the morrow we'd know more
'Bout how to do our Rebel chore
Of hunting down the Empire scum
And killing Hutts (of which Z's one).
If Zebra dies today we're still
Clueless 'bout those who hold the kill.
No threads to pull, no paths to track,
No knowing if our guts are whack.
I'd REALLY rather *learn* this lynch
If this game we hope to clinch,
But I'm not sure if Bullz is he
Whose death'll help our victory.
I wish the votes were on another
Like sister Eloh or Wilgy brother
Or Daisy-findel, (though I think
Matt might be right about the link
That Glorf's "clique" meltdown doesn't fit
With baddies who can chat and shit.)
But at this point those seem farfetched
As candidates since all you wretched
People voted Bullz instead
Whose name has barely crossed my head.
So, basically, I'm at a loss:
Vote zebra and we pay the cost
Of nothing learned, but bag a Hutt;
Or vote for Bullz like all you butts,
And hope that you know more than me
'Bout who he serves and who he be.
One person who I trust quite well
Has already sentenced Z to Hell
So I'm tempted there to follow suit
And give the Hutt a solid boot.
(No one who's voted for Bullzeye
I trust as much as that Dom-guy).
I'd like to know just where Mac stands
Since he, I think, has steady hands
To guide the civs a proper way
And help us do it right today.
I'll not vote for a few more hours,
But if those I think have civvie powers
Can't share their thoughts before I leave
It's Zebra whose head I'll vote to cleave.


The holly green the Ivy green the prettiest picture Ive ever seen...

Dom wrote:And Sorsha, 'Nucks, how do you feel about her?
I hate to do this to you, but I feel that I can trust you-- I was wrong to doubt you earlier.

Sorsha's one who I forget
Is even playing, but then yet
That in itself does not look good
This far along as civvies should
Have made their mark, been right, been wrong,
Been SOMETHING...but Sorsha's just been gone
(At least that's how it seems to me,
I have not ISO'd that lady).
I'm reminded by her blendy game
Of how I play when I have Indy aims
But are all the Indys accounted for?
Mac seems to think so, on that score.
In short, my mind has a blank space
In what should be Sorsha's place
Which tells me she's been trying hard
To slink by everybody's guard.
Detached civ? Baddie? I'm not sure,
What is it that YOU think if her?
Has she been ISO'd recently?
I'd do it, but rhyming's so tricky!!


Frosty the snowman was a jolly happy soul

Dom wrote:Canuck, I don't want to make this too difficult on you, but who do you think is a good lynch alternative today?

Trusting Z is hard, you know,
But I liked her (brief) case on Eloh.
Wilgy also seems to fit
If we've got lurker Empire shits.
But would MP allow his team
To be as absent as Wilgy's been?
I know that I have said before
"Daisy or MP, it's either/or"
But I think we should not disregard
That she could have bussed her hubby hard.
Of all of these I have to say
I think Eloh's my choice for today.
Her constant claims of lack of skill
Just rub me wrong, and make me ill.
Now that her names come up a bit
She's scrambling as if in a fit
Because she's done no work all game
At finding scum, just faking "lame".
I'd like to hear from others', though,
As I'm not convinced of where to go.
Eloh, Wilgy, or SD.
Any might be fine with me.

Silent Night holy night

I'm kinda pissed my zebra hunting work
Is useless now she's gone berserk
But I agree we're best to let her smirk
And help us take down empire jerks.

Rudolph the red nosed reindeer

What the funk.
This game got crunk.

Deck the halls and all that junk.

Sorry I missed the vote, everyone. I was at the emergency vet.

Also, can someone please tell me what the case against dfaraday is??

I'm really, really tempted to vote for the first option, just to see what the hosts will do....

Canucklehead wrote:I thought Glorfindel was suspicious as fuck, so I'm not averse to Daisy being lynched...but I'm really confused as to why the tide is suddenly turning against MP? I have no idea whether I can trust llama or not, since he hasn't done much since replacing in other than make declarative statements without offering reasons or thoughts or insights into why he's making those statements...but I really DO trust Mac, I'm just not sure if he's insanities or not? Is he serious about thinking MP is good??

For the record, at this point I think only one of MP or SD is bad...I'm just not sure which I think is more likely. SD has provided some good thighs and insights since joining, but that might just be her in massive damage control mode after the mess Glorfindel left her with...
What do other people think? Is there a chance both MP and Daisy are bad?

Also, I seem to have completely missed the case on faraday. Someone do a summary for me, pretty please?!

That should say "why the tide is suddenly turning against *voting* MP". Durrrr.

I thought Glorfindel was suspicious as fuck, so I'm not averse to Daisy being lynched...but I'm really confused as to why the tide is suddenly turning against MP? I have no idea whether I can trust llama or not, since he hasn't done much since replacing in other than make declarative statements without offering reasons or thoughts or insights into why he's making those statements...but I really DO trust Mac, I'm just not sure if he's insanities or not? Is he serious about thinking MP is good??

For the record, at this point I think only one of MP or SD is bad...I'm just not sure which I think is more likely. SD has provided some good thighs and insights since joining, but that might just be her in massive damage control mode after the mess Glorfindel left her with...
What do other people think? Is there a chance both MP and Daisy are bad?

Also, I seem to have completely missed the case on faraday. Someone do a summary for me, pretty please?!

This game has devolved into nonsense, I see. Are there any sane people left?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:Seriously? Not a SINGLE thought on my case?

I'm starting to understand what you high-poster type people are always on about...

Now you begin to understand.

Well, I obviously think zebra is bad, so your case has some merit on that front.

I was pegging her for Empire though.

I think normally it's the "She" who does the pegging in a relationship...




...I'll show myself out.

Seriously? Not a SINGLE thought on my case?

I'm starting to understand what you high-poster type people are always on about...

So back to my Z-Hutt investigation. To recap, after looking through her Day 1 posts, I had some minor-moderate suspicion that my hunch about Z-Hutt was right, based mostly (though not entirely) on the way she ISO'd bcornett. Then, during the last cycle I believed that Z's curse was inflicted by her teammate to try to distance her from the Hutts (or, if Epi allows self-targeting, I suppose she could be Crumb and have cursed herself).

However, I'm going to do my very best to put that aside for the moment while I trudge on with this ISO. Again, I'm mostly looking specifically for connections (or lack thereof) to Enrique and bcornett, and will therefore be mostly skimming the posts related to other things, so again I offer the caveat that this is a very limited ISO. I make no claims to it being definitive about anything other than sussing out in-thread interactions with known Hutts. I know that Z is off the table for votes today, but if I don't do this now I'll never do it. Depending on how it turns out, it may be something we can look at next day.

(Just a comment to the Hosts: having the "Story So Far" and the player list on the front page referring to cycles as "Episodes", and the in thread labels being "Day/Night" makes doing ISOs and quickly referencing when someone died in context of the posts you're sorting through really difficult and annoying. I get that it's there for flavor, but I personally would find it more useful to have players deaths referenced according to the Day or Night cycle, rather than the "Episode", which doesn't quite correspond. Like, what Day was bcornett lynched? I would love to be able to look that up quickly, with as few links to follow as possible. Sorry to bitch. Just a suggestion)


On to Day 2!
Most of this Day was Z cat fighting with Roxy. Then she ultimately votes Bass. Boring, for my purposes.

Day 3: (This is the day bcornett ends up lynched)

a2thezebra wrote:

Enrique wrote:She's a she.

I don't want to vote for Bass... when he talks about "when I flip civ" I believe he's being genuine. I'll still vote to save myself because I can only be certain of my role, but still, I'd much rather see Roxy get the noose today.

Enrique wrote:Bass

I know it's early, but I think I've found my Day 3 vote.

Here Z points out a contradiction in Enrique's previous-day play. A fancy bit of distancing if the BTSC-Hutts knew who Greedo was, perhaps, but I'm not inclined to read it that way. Either Z is not a Butt and is just scum-hunting, or Z is a Butt and didn't know who Greedo was. Inconclusive (as I think most interactions with/about Enrique are bound to be because of the non-BTSC structure of the Butt team).

a2thezebra wrote:

Enrique wrote:Low posting is generally seen as unhelpful and scummy. I take no issue with Zebra's GTH on them.

She was upset because Golden gave up on your lynch so easily. I think you're also kinda overstating her reaction, getting Matt was a good thing but it's not especially helpful information.

Buddying much?

See now, THIS is actually interesting. I actually think this might be a very ironic post. I think Z is right that Enrique *is* buddying her here...I just think he's doing it not to try and gain civ-cred, but to try and defend a teammate coming under heat. It's just that Z wasn't aware Enri was her teamie :lol: Of course, this speculation only holds if Enrique was aware of who his teammates were.... but yeah. Interesting that Enrique was willing to stick his neck out for Z here. It could just be a coincidence, of course, and is definitely not conclusive. But I'm intrigued.

a2thezebra wrote:

Enrique wrote:Zebra, that's a joke, right? I don't like the way you're twisting those quotes. The first one was specifically about having to vote for Bass to save myself. Like, that was actually the context, don't try to play it off as a flip-flop because I did exactly what I had to.

Sorry for agreeing with you but I really don't give a shit about making friends in this game. If I think you're onto something I'll support you when it's relevant, even if I don't have much to add. I have no idea what the hell you're doing right now, so there's that.

What's the point of accusing me of playing it off as a flip-flop and twisting the quotes when I did literally nothing but post the quotes themselves with all the context necessary and say that I'm likely going to vote for you? There is no sane way to interpret what I did as twisting anything. There's supporting me when you think I'm onto something and then there's writing my defenses for me as if you knew exactly what was going through my head with each and every one of my actions. I'm not a fan of that and it doesn't speak well of your alignment.

Well, this honestly makes my comments about the previous quote seem less convincing. This could be a fine bit of acting/subtle hinting on Enrique's part (signaling that he's a teammate, not a "friend"; stating he'll "support" when necessary "even if I don't have much to add"; claiming to be in the dark about what Z and team are doing might be a gesture towards not being in on the BTSC).....but I will admit that that is quite far-fetched. Not impossible, but far-fetched. (Though if it's true, good on you Enrique! Suave!)

a2thezebra wrote:

Enrique wrote:No, don't treat me like I'm stupid. You finger picked that shit and took it out of context. You're not just "quoting stuff," you're being manipulative and there's absolutely no way you don't know what I'm talking about.

Can you give me a better explanation as to why you quoted those posts?

I'm not treating you in any particular way, this is a game. I think the burden of proof is on you here. What context did I miss that makes your actions more justifiable? How am I being manipulative? Where did I give you the impression that I don't know what you're talking about? I know exactly what you're talking about and I don't believe a word you're saying.

Enri seems genuinely frustrated here. Maybe that's because he knows his own teammate is unknowingly going hard at him?? I don't actually think so. I'm more and more beginning to think that either Enrique is a FANTASTIC actor, or neither he nor the other Huts knew who the other was, and therefore finding connections among Enrique and Butts is going to be a fool's errand.

The next couple of posts in the Z/Enrique exchange are similarly non-telling. I do not think that Enrique thinks Z is on his team. I do not think Z thinks she is on Enrique's team. Doesn't make it impossible or even unlikely that Z is a Butt, just means that there aren't any threads to pull on in trying to find an Enrique connection, at least at this point.

a2thezebra wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:@mm

I have read over bass's posts and i honestly can't tell you why he was lynched let alone had a single vote. Here is the post history for Bass_the_Clever. As I had previously stated I could not recall why he was considered to be suspicious therefore I placed my vote on Enrique instead. I am not sure how this made me your number one suspect. In fact, that is as suspicious as bass's Lynch. 6 players voted for bass. Of those the only player only zebra seems to have provided a reason in her ISO which basically stated that her suspicions were based on lack of content/participation.

Okay I'm only speaking for my own Bass vote here but I did not just vote for Bass because of lack of content. If that was the case then why didn't I vote for any other low poster? Bass pinged me with more than half of his posts. I was wrong of course, but I do not think my vote was unjustified, just uninformed.

First time Z has interacted with or mentioned bcornett since her Day 1 ISO of him, I think?
This is an odd post. If I look at it with Z-Butt glasses on, it looks like bcornett is too apologetic for Z in his post, excusing her vote for Bass and condemning all other 5 Bass voters. Z responds, and I think her motive is two-fold: 1) to correct bcornett's characterization of her vote, and (more damningly) 2) to undo the unfortunate defending bcornett has done and put some distance between them by "arguing" with his post, even though it's not a part of a conversation with her. This looks like a bit of course correction of a teammate's actions.
However, if I look at it was Z-civ glasses, only the first point (the correction of bcornetts characterization of her Bass vote) applies.
I actually think Z's post is not particularly suspicious, but I DO think bcornett's singling her vote out and defending it is quite suspicious.

a2thezebra wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Until MP returns what do YOU think of those two, MM?

Neutral on Mac. I voted him on Day 1, and that seemed to get him moving. It was all jokes and smokes before I voted him, and it was business afterward. Do you think that is a baddie reaction or civvie one?

Slight mafia on bcornett. I don't like his vote from Day 2, but I'm still waiting on a response for him, because I may have misunderstood him. What do you think about bcornett?

For Mac, that reaction could go either way with equal likelihood. Personally I think he's genuine.

I disagree with some of bcornett's logic but it doesn't come off as manipulative to me. Golden said earlier that he was ready to vote bcornett and then he convinced him otherwise to the point where he was one of Golden's slight town reads for that same day, and now Golden is back to being ready to vote for him again.

This is not a good look, defending bconett, but then subtly shifting the defense-move into an offensive move against Golden's flip-flopping. Clever. Deflects attention from bcornett, but very sneakily without looking like a hard defense.

Z then engages in a hard push against Glorfindel, and avoids mentioning Golden's vote for bcornett (which happens 3 posts after z's post mentioning Golden's views), DESPITE the fact that she has previously remarked on Golden's wishy-washy attitude towards bcornett. Not wanting to focus attention on the fact that a teamie is starting to draw actual votes, rather than just suspicions??? (That's obviously me reading with Butt glasses).

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Now I'm at the point where I'll feel guilty for voting any of the players I suspect.

You shouldn't. There is still every chance they are bad. I think if people have read your posts they ought to understand that you in particular have taken the opportunity to read low posters content and judge them on the basis of the content and not the volume.

But I do think it has been very easy to latch on to 'low content' as an excuse for votes without looking beyond it for malicious intent.

Hey, Zebra, I'd like to know specifically what you think about my posts re bcornett.

I'm not doubting that they are bad, but at this point I don't feel like I'm even in a position to vote for anyone but myself. Nothing gets me down more than miscommunication that ruins people's enjoyment of something, especially so unnecessarily.

I'm not confident enough to say that you're flat-out wrong about bcornett, but I think that more than once this game you've been very quick to see his posts as manipulative, and Day 1 you were just as quick to look the other way after he responded to you. I'm town-reading him myself but I want to see how he responds to your more recent suspicion, and honestly I'm slightly pinged that you didn't hesitate to vote for him today. Are you worried he might change your mind again?

Here, Golden (clearly having notice Z's avoidance of his bcornett vote) directly questions Z on the matter. Z's response is verrrrrry tentative and hedgey. Soft defense, but leaving room for herself to change her mind if it becomes necessary. Once again points to Golden's own back-and-forth attitude on bcornett, once again shift focus from bcornett himself to Golden's "suspicious" behaviors around bcornett. Again, I don't think this looks particularly good for Z.

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Are you worried he might change your mind again?

No. A quick look at who voted Alderaan on day zero and who voted in this poll before me should explain what I was worried about.

I don't think my mind will change on bcornett again. Doing it one time is one thing. Doing it several times is another. He has also been around since my suspicion (I've seen him leave the thread, come back, and then read the thread) but he hasn't made any acknowledgment of it yet, which makes me think he is being extra careful about his response. I only voted after I had seen that happen.

But, although you did respond to my question, what I'm particularly interested in is what you make of his flip from his perspective on the bass lynch to his perspective on bubbles.

I don't see it. It's hypocritical, but that doesn't ping me by itself. If he's being extra careful about his response then that does ping me.

More soft defense of bcornett.

a2thezebra wrote:Oh, I see him now. bcornett I DEMAND YOU RESPOND TO GOLDEN ASAP OR ELSE

But seriously, that would be nice bcornett. Pretty please? I'm trying.

Translation: "Holy suit, teammate! I'm coming PERILOUSLY close to doing a full out defense on you here! Defend your damn self! Don't take me down with you! I will use sarcastic orange so that it looks like I'm just trying to get more information, but actually I'm kind of bothered that you've put me in this situation"
I don't see a civ reason for this post, honestly, even when I take off the Butt glasses.

a2thezebra wrote:Well bcornett's gone again.

"......fuck. Time to go full on bus mode, I guess"

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:I'm here-ish, ninja.

I would like to get a sense of who you are most suspicious of, and particularly your view on the more popular suspects like zebra, bcornett, russti, glorfindel, enrique, bubbles...

@zebra - I just looked at the poll and I see bcornett voted me, so...

I mean, what am I to make of that?

He's scum, that's what you are to make of that. I didn't have a problem with Glorfindel's silent vote but from bcornett who was in the thread when both of us were asking him for a response to your suspicion and then left without a single post...yeah.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Golden, bcornett voted for you?

I presume I've missed some major development then.

I voted for him first.

And that's actually pretty much all the development MP missed. No more context necessary. It is an OMGUS without even a post attempting to justify it.

This just very much reads to me like a frustrated teammate. My guess is bcornett didn't show up to BTSC much. Bus mode full-on engaged, and the complete 180 necessitated both by bcornetts super-shady actions AND z's awareness of her own soft defenses earlier.

a2thezebra wrote:At the moment I'd be more comfortable with a bcornett lynch than a Glorfindel lynch.

Staying in front of the burning ship.

a2thezebra wrote:Ranked from towniest to scummiest.

Canucklehead
MacDougall
Golden
Simon
nijuukyugou
MovingPictures07
DFaraday
Black Rock
Roxy
Metalmarsh89
Enrique
Sorsha
sig
Dom
Elohcin
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
NANANANANANA_BANANA
TheFloyd73
Luke11646
Mishimeals
Russtifinko
Savage
Bubbles
bcornett24

"Gosh I hope everyone forgets that I defended bcornett before he shat the bed entirely"

a2thezebra wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Golden, bcornett voted for you?

I presume I've missed some major development then.

I voted for him first.

And that's actually pretty much all the development MP missed. No more context necessary. It is an OMGUS without even a post attempting to justify it.

But you've been telling Golden he's wrong about bcornett. Do you think this OMGUS comes from a civvie mindset?

I was telling him that he was being uncomfortably indecisive about bcornett, and I still think that for the most part he was. But after seeing bcornett pop in the thread, post nothing regarding either his out-of-nowhere OMGUS vote or a response to both Golden and myself asking a response from him, I think my flip-flop is justified.

MM notices Z's about-face on bcornett, and wonders why Z doesn't consider the possibility that bcornett is a civ doing an OMGUS. Z holds her ground, to her credit. She's dug in now. I think a civ response to MM's question would have entertained the possibility, rather than jumped to self-defense.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:zebra said this about bcornett at 12:49 (PST)

Spoiler: show

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Now I'm at the point where I'll feel guilty for voting any of the players I suspect.

You shouldn't. There is still every chance they are bad. I think if people have read your posts they ought to understand that you in particular have taken the opportunity to read low posters content and judge them on the basis of the content and not the volume.

But I do think it has been very easy to latch on to 'low content' as an excuse for votes without looking beyond it for malicious intent.

Hey, Zebra, I'd like to know specifically what you think about my posts re bcornett.

I'm not doubting that they are bad, but at this point I don't feel like I'm even in a position to vote for anyone but myself. Nothing gets me down more than miscommunication that ruins people's enjoyment of something, especially so unnecessarily.

I'm not confident enough to say that you're flat-out wrong about bcornett, but I think that more than once this game you've been very quick to see his posts as manipulative, and Day 1 you were just as quick to look the other way after he responded to you. I'm town-reading him myself but I want to see how he responds to your more recent suspicion, and honestly I'm slightly pinged that you didn't hesitate to vote for him today. Are you worried he might change your mind again?

She said this about an hour later.

Spoiler: show

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:I'm here-ish, ninja.

I would like to get a sense of who you are most suspicious of, and particularly your view on the more popular suspects like zebra, bcornett, russti, glorfindel, enrique, bubbles...

@zebra - I just looked at the poll and I see bcornett voted me, so...

I mean, what am I to make of that?

He's scum, that's what you are to make of that. I didn't have a problem with Glorfindel's silent vote but from bcornett who was in the thread when both of us were asking him for a response to your suspicion and then left without a single post...yeah.

And now he is zebra's Number 1 scumspect.

Linki: I dunno zebra. You had a townread of him.

MM isn't buying it. Clever MM! (Note: MM killed by Butts soon after this. The very next chance they have to kill. Hmmmmm.)

a2thezebra wrote:I'm voting bcornett24. A red flag is a red flag regardless of the rest of his ISO. And I can't think of a more nonredeemable red flag than a complete failure to respond to suspicion followed by a postless OMGUS vote. There is simply no excuse.

Z votes bcornett, having no other option. The "simply no excuse" bit reads very much like a pissed teammate. Civs don't say things like that about their suspects.

a2thezebra wrote:And I think you're not giving the bcornett heat nearly enough credit. It's way more well-founded than you seem to think it is.

If it turns out that Z is a Hutt, this is a super hilarious ironic post.




OK. I need to go for a lunch meeting, and this seems like a logical place to stop this phase anyway.
I think it's pretty clear that I've convinced myself Z is a Butt. I think the shenanigans around the bcornett vote, and her kind of unreasonable indignation at his failure to defend himself all speak pretty loudly. I suppose there are ways you could read those interactions with Z-civ glasses on, but I honestly tried and it did not convince.
No one has to agree with my conclusions, of course. But the posts are there for you to read, along with my readings of them to consider (or not) at your leisure.

For today, I think an MP vote is merited again, unless someone has a compelling case why the reasons he was suspicious last day have somehow magically changed??





ETA: on preview, I see that my autocorrect has changed every instance of "Hutt" to "Butt". I've chosen not to fix it, because I am lazy and that is hilarious.

a2thezebra wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:Wowzers. Lots of shit, lots of fans.

Z, my suspicion of you was based on a general feeling I got during the Mac/Golden exchange, which I initially laid out, which you shot down and I agreed that my reasoning was unsound on that point. The general feeling did not go away, however, which lead me to begin (but not finish, as I've pointed out) my ISO of you as a potential hutt. I did try to do that objectvely. Then, this whole curse thing, and insisting that it's Crumb, and being super obvious about it added more fuel to my previously sow-burning fire, and pushed me out of objectivity. That's how suspicions work: they start as inklings and hunches, and events that follow either strengthen or weaken them. When I get back to doing my ISO (which, as I've already explained, won't be today) I will attempt to reattach my objectivity glasses, and maybe my opinion will change again. I'm pretty good at being open-minded about things. But as it stands right now in this very moment at this second, I think you're a hutt.

HOWEVER. Tonight is Empire kill night. Hutts are already pretty decimated. Empire is (as far as we know) intact. I do not think you and MP are teammates. I do think MP is bad. I also don't think I can get you lynched today. I am OK with an MP lynch.

I'm not bothered by you thinking I'm a Hutt or even your suspicion of me being strengthened by my actions today, I'm bothered by you having no qualms with everyone agreeing with you without even reading your case. Llama agrees with you yet thinks I'm Empire, Daisy agrees with you but thinks I'm MP's teammate, (does that mean she think he's a Hutt as well? That's about as far from justified in the thread as it gets) sig, Dom, and Mac have all been on board with voicing suspicion of me based on nothing and you don't even have enough of a problem with it to point it out. That's unnerving.

linki - Oooh me me me

Well, to be fair, I haven't been paying much attention to what the hell anyone else thinks of my (unfinished) case. I only pointed out Daisy's comment because it chimed specifically with something I had also noticed.

NOW I'M TURNING OFF THE INTERNET LIKE A GOOD LITTLE SCHOLAR AND GOING TO READ SOME FUCKING 17th CENTURY SERMONS

Dom wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:

Dom wrote:How many of you would classify baddie hunting MP as emotionally manipulative?

I would. For surezies.

wait... baddie hunting or baddie?


Baddie yes.
Baddie hunting no.

Poorly phrased question. Rephrasing:


How many of you would classify baddie MP as emotionally manipulative?

Yeah, I misread that.
Baddie MP = emotionally manipulative MP.

Now all of you, fuck off. I have to DO WORK.

Dom wrote:How many of you would classify baddie hunting MP as emotionally manipulative?

I would. For surezies.

Wowzers. Lots of shit, lots of fans.

Z, my suspicion of you was based on a general feeling I got during the Mac/Golden exchange, which I initially laid out, which you shot down and I agreed that my reasoning was unsound on that point. The general feeling did not go away, however, which lead me to begin (but not finish, as I've pointed out) my ISO of you as a potential hutt. I did try to do that objectvely. Then, this whole curse thing, and insisting that it's Crumb, and being super obvious about it added more fuel to my previously sow-burning fire, and pushed me out of objectivity. That's how suspicions work: they start as inklings and hunches, and events that follow either strengthen or weaken them. When I get back to doing my ISO (which, as I've already explained, won't be today) I will attempt to reattach my objectivity glasses, and maybe my opinion will change again. I'm pretty good at being open-minded about things. But as it stands right now in this very moment at this second, I think you're a hutt.

HOWEVER. Tonight is Empire kill night. Hutts are already pretty decimated. Empire is (as far as we know) intact. I do not think you and MP are teammates. I do think MP is bad. I also don't think I can get you lynched today. I am OK with an MP lynch.

a2thezebra wrote:I'm starting to doubt the sincerity of Canuck's suspicion of me.

Why? I am sincerely suspicious of you.

Obvious attempt to distance from Hutt team by team/self-targeting is obvious.

Ah, my voting record. The bane of my mafia existence, in this game and every other.
It's totally my own fault, so I accept whatever suspicion I get based on my failures, and all I can say in my defense is that I am terrible at participation, regardless of my alignment. Just take a look at my P-score. I may actually be the only person on this site who has actually (rightfully) been penalized in that way. Those who have played with me a lot, will no doubt remember that I am garbage at participating/caring in the early stages of big games because it's just too much to keep track of and I'm not that dedicated (this is not an excuse, just an explanation). As the game goes on and the player list thins out, I'm better able to get a handle on what's going on, and better able to creatively and usefully deploy any role powers I might have, and therefore better able to engage in thread. In this game, I missed those early votes due to a combination of what I just mentioned, and an old habit of voting right before bed (since many games here often have later poll close times). Again, not an excuse. I accept whatever gets thrown at me because of my failure to participate.


In other news,
i haven't had a chance to continue with my Z-Hutt case yet, and won't before this day cycle is over. Which is a bummer. I'm not comfortable voting her based only on having a small (but significant) ping from Day 1 business. I do, however, really agree with this statement from Daisy:

Spacedaisy wrote:Additionally her response to Canuck bringing a case against her was odd, it read to me like someone who was trying not to make any sudden moves, maybe sway Canuck by seeming calm and friendly. I don't know Zebra well though this might just be her personality. But that kind of behavior always reads baddie to me.

However, this comment from Daisy is even more damning, and helps me feel better about the MP wiggliness I've been tentative to commit to all game:

Spacedaisy wrote:Oh boy, sorry guys. I lost some steam at the thought of reading zebra and MP. I can't give an opinion on anything much from what went on before, but I have some opinions right now from the catch up I just did.

1. MP backing off me when he was previously suspicious of Glorf is absolutely 100% shady. I can understand it at first, and it usually takes a bit of time before I can decide how I feel about him, a cycle or two. He feels like he's buddying up to me. He likes it if he thinks he can get me on his side, thinks an endorsement from me carries more credibility. I don't like that feeling right now. It's not as strong as it has been other games, but it's there.

2. The Rox flip and sig's point about her statement is too strong to ignore. The people she suspected should be up on the chopping block IMO. MP is no exception. Wasn't zebra in there too? I thought she was just trying to get out, but what sig said now that we know her role makes so much more sense.

3. I wouldn't read much into what someone said was a connection between MP and Glorf. I know for a fact they didn't have BTSC, because I don't. What was pointed out as him prompting Glorf is silly, he would have prompted BTSC, not in thread. That was MP wearing his admin hat and trying to help a new member acclimate.

Anyway my read of MP = bad.

I don't mean to offload the responsibility of my vote onto Daisy, but her read of MP is really, really one that I trust, and coupling that with my own sneaking suspicions of MP, I will probably vote there today. Dom's right: we all have RL shit, and if we felt bad about voting for everyone who's got crap to do outside the game, we'd never lynch anyone ever. Dom's also right that Daisy hasn't been a mediocre sub. You've been at least above average, girl. Don't sell yourself short.

Also, where the heck did Sorsha come from?

So zebra obviously has about a million posts to go through. I am under no illusion that this browse through is going to be in any way comprehensive, and I'm sure I will miss things, but this is the best I can do in the time/effort I have available. I've focused on Z's interactions with and about known Hutts, because this investigation was prompted by my idea that z might be a Hutt. This case says nothing whatsoever about whether or not Z might be empire. Someone else can do that, My conclusions, such as they are, are at the bottom in a spoiler tag, because I think you should all (obviously) draw your own. I've tried to look at and present the information as objectively as possible (a fools' errand, I know) because I think a lot of us (me included) have been town-reading z for a while, and I am very, very wary of provoking a backlash against a strong town player. On the other hand, the fact that we've all been reading her town means that if she's fooling us all, we need to wake up and smell the coffee pronto. So. Do with this what you will, I did my best.

Here goes!

a2thezebra wrote:Okay I planned on staying in semi-spectator mode to watch you two go at it but seriously why Enrique?

Z is the first person to jump on Mac's Day 1 random denunciation of Enrique as scum. This post comes three minutes after Mac reiterates his scum-claim on Enrique. In a less active player, this would be a major red flag for me because of the quickness with which Z jumps on what (to me at least) seemed to be a mainly jokey/prodding/not entirely serious suspicion. However, two things temper that: 1) Z is very active and responsive in the thread when she's around, and she would likely respond this way to any statement about any player presented as definitively as Mac does. 2) We don't know if En-Greedo was known to his Hutt-mates or not, so it's tough to say if Z-as-Hutt would have known that Enrique was a teammate or not.

Mac and Z then go on to have a back-and-forth about Mac's Day 0 ping on Enrique, in which Z is at first incredulous that Mac wasn't joking about calling Enrique "confirmed scum". The initial incredulity sits totally fine with me, but the reasoning that Mac presents for his Day 1 vote/accusation (I'm not sure if Mac has actually voted at this point?) is actually pretty fucking sound for Day 1, and to her credit Z recognizes this:

a2thezebra wrote:That's more like it. Response, Enrique?

However, her response to Enrique's response is interesting:

a2thezebra wrote:

Enrique wrote:like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

See this is the same problem I had with MP regarding DDL (I know I said I wouldn't talk about him until he responded but I have to as an example OKAY?!) because it's not the actions themselves that could be interpreted as scummy because as scum you're not intending for those actions to be pointed out or even visible to anyone including yourself in the first place. These actions are products of a narrative that is simply more likely to be interpreted as scum than town, because it makes sense that you would be nervous about blending in as scum hence the inconsistencies of your voting, while the likelihood that you were simply going through the motions of researching the locations is less likely given the nature of some of your posts, at least in Mac's opinion.

I'm not fully convinced but this response of yours didn't help you. I don't think you're giving his case enough credit, yet you seem rather flustered as if it is in fact worth looking into.

If I'm looking at this post with "Z is a Hutt" glasses, then this reads to me like gentle coaching (especially useful since there was no BTSC with Greedo), pointing out to Enrique exactly how and why his responses are unsatisfying, and making sure to leave herself room to ultimately position herself on either side of the Enrique question depending on how things shake out (something I think baddies do not only with teammates, but with any in-thread suspects). Of course, this reading works only if the Hutts know Greedo's identity.
On the other hand, if I'm looking at this post with "Z is a civ" glasses, it reads like someone considering Mac's reasonable case, and giving Enrique an opportunity to defend before making up her mind.

Something that does seem a bit odd, is that after going to the effort of constructing this thoughtful response to Mac/Enrique, E provides a pretty minimal defense, and Z's only response to that is "Hmmmmm.....time will tell". I would expect someone who was actually genuinely attempting to sort out the merits of Mac's case to want to engage Enrique more, or at least express some disastisfaction with his minimal response. But That's obviously just a subjective thing.

a2thezebra wrote:

Enrique wrote:

sig wrote:I don't think enrique vote for Yavin is suspicious.
Though this

Enrique wrote:I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

The Hutts aren't independent and are based on Tattooine so I find this interesting.

Yeah that seemed really obvious once somebody pointed it out. To be fair, when I think of Tattooine I always associate it with those raider shits stealing the droids, Anakin coming back to kill them, etc. I haven't watched a Star Wars film since I was 10, and though yes I know the Hutts are based there, it just kinda went over my head when I made that post.

Hmmm...I don't buy it.

Here Z isn't convinced by.....?? I dunno. I guess she means Enrique? But this could also be read as "not buying" sig's suspicion of Enrique. Undefined pronouns are undefined!

a2thezebra wrote:Thank you for bringing up MM's bizarre early vote and how it's fucking weird that no one is talking about it...MM.

This has nothing at all to do with the possibility of Z being a Hutt, but I thought it was fucking hilarious and made me laugh out loud while I was reading, so I re-posted it for your reading pleasure.

Pretty soon after this, Z goes into her Massive Day 1 ISOs of every player. Some people have (I think?) already expressed slight suspicion that this might have been an over-the-top display of faux towniness....but here are her early isos of Enrique and bcornett:

a2thezebra wrote:Enrique

I am so done with these after finishing Matt's ISO. But nevertheless, I must move forward!

Enrique wrote:I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

Sooooo this is a horse that's been beaten to death already. I have nothing to say about it that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say again that I am not convinced by Enrique's most recent responses attempting to explain his position with this. In fact, I actually wasn't that pinged by it until he explained it, because his explanation came off as fake. But I'll get to that in a bit.

Enrique wrote:thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

From this point almost 24 hours ago all the way to now, Enrique has been doing nothing but explaining himself and re-explaining himself and being defensive and being over-defensive. It just looks really bad. Maybe when he starts talking about something other than other people's thoughts on him I'll be more comfortable with his alignment, but as of right now, GTH, based on his ISO I would say he looks like:

SCUM

So this obviously looks good for Z (but would be irrelevant if the Hutts didn't know who Greedo was). Again, if I'm being super paranoid I could see the last paragraph as being coaching/prodding and hedgey (laying out a specific condition which Enrique could easily meet in order to "clear" him in Z's eyes, thereby allowing Z to justify changing her mind on him later if she needed to). Bt of course, with the uncertainty around the status of who-knows-what-about-who on the Hutt team, making any definitive reads here is tricky.

a2thezebra wrote:bcornett24

I know for anyone who's reading this it looks like I'm getting lazier and lazier with these analyses but I swear to God I just had a bunch of prominent posters in a row at first and now I have a bunch of extremely minimal posters in a row. But luckily, bcornett has more to offer read-wise than the last few. I even have material I feel like quoting!

bcornett24 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:Ok, so for the srs bsns I promised:

1) Voting Tatooine. Less for movie reasons and more because if we want info about Jabba's plans and our operatives found his plans in his palace, it makes sense to think his palace is a good place to start the search.

2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

I'm rather confused why the focus of the conversation happens to be on the 2nd statement russ made here and not the first. I would encourage everybody to read the statement in red. To me this comes across as a scum hunting for third party players (or vise-versa).

I find this to be a very anti-town statement. What does everybody else think?

After thinking about it, I'm not sure I agree. It's almost too easy for Russ to be pegged as slipping with the "our operatives" comment. I saw his game in TH and while his tone seemed a bit off to me there (and it does here too) I don't think I share this particular ping. Maybe when I go through Russ' ISO I'll think differently, but right now I disagree. But as a wise man known as MP once hinted to me, I shouldn't think someone is suspicious just because I disagree with them. :P I think this post and the one before it speak well of bcornett (at least among the more minimal posters) but then there is this:

bcornett24 wrote:I've read all the content this far and will be posting after work here in another 5 to 6 hours.

It's been more than 5 to 6 hours good sir, WHERE ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?! Just kidding, but seriously, as of right now he seems to be genuinely scumhunting so I'd like to see more of it. GTH I think he is:

TOWN

This is perhaps more interesting/useful, since bcornett was Jabba and a Hutt-Z would have btsc with him.
So the caveat at the very beginning is super interesting and perhaps over-defensive? Like, Z is a bit nervous that she went over-the-top with clearing bcornett, and added in the opening bit in case anyone was like "Why did you say all of two lines about xplayer and so much about bcornett, who wasn't exactly a huge poster??". Also, I'm not sure her analysis and comments are so robust as to require that kind of caveat. The quote is long, but her comments are really kind of neither here-nor-there. She cautiously disagrees with his read of Russ, then tosses in a jokey line (distraction! Look how comfortable I am!), then says bcornett's posts "speak well of him" without giving any reason why....making me wonder why she bothered quoting in the first place, and why she claims that bcornett has "things worth quoting!", since her analysis of him really has nothing to do with the quote she pulled. So that reads to me as a bit disingenuous (she isos several other players without feeling the need to quote them, so it's not like she was just adhereing to a format. She chose to pull that quote, but based her read on vagueness and nothing that really rendered the quote neccessary), and the opening caveat seems paranoid and preemptively defensive. Writing about teammates is HARD, and full of second guessing, especially when you're choosing to town-read them. So this is a legit ping moment for me.

After all the isos, Z goes pretty hard at Bass...a suspicion that she has since dropped, it seems? Maybe something happens later to change her mind, or maybe I'm just misremembering Z's current stance on Bass.

a2thezebra wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:Are you currently civilian golden?

You don't seem too dedicated to the belief that Golden doesn't have much content. And what are you implying with "currently"?

Z questions bcornett here, but since I honestly cannot parse this sentence, even after having read it in context, I can't make absolutely nothing of it. Seems pretty inconsequential, either way.

a2thezebra wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:Are you currently civilian golden?

You don't seem too dedicated to the belief that Golden doesn't have much content. And what are you implying with "currently"?

Both of these have been discussed in several later posts as well as a detail iso of golden. Have you had the time to read them yet?

At the time of that post I had not fully caught up. Consider that statement void.

Takes back whatever it was she meant by her earlier question. Nice way to have an interaction with a teammate in the thread without having to suspect them, perhaps? Or maybe just totally innoccuous.

Votes Bass Day 1.

Holy fuck that took me FOREVER, and that was only Day fucking 1!!
My conclusions thus far are below. Obviously this read-through is totally incomplete, but I have spent TWO HOURS AT LEAST on this, and I have to go do something useful with my life now.

Okey dokey, I shall now attempt to actually make good on my promises to contribute something more conrete than vague opinions and agreements with other players to this game. My priority is to look at zebra's interactions with known hutts, and if I have time after that, I'd like to look at Eloh (who I remember having pings about during the Simon lynch, but can't remember why). Following that (and this is getting into the realm of highly unlikely to happen due to the cascading guilt of avoiding to do any real work today while I do the previous two items), I need to re-familiarize myself with people playing this game who are not named zebra, mac, or Golden. I know not all of the other players have been lurkers, but my focus has been so overwhelmingly devoured by those three that a serious and conscious re-direct is in order. Hopefully I can get to that later tonight or tomorrow.

I'm also interested in the (seemingly) sudden swell of MP suspicion. As I've said, I have absolutely no ability to read MP and I always think he's bad, and I've been waffling on him all game. I'd like to hear what Daisy has to say about him, if she's had a chance to give him a look?

Forgot to add: Roxy, I hope that whatever is upsetting you can be worked out and that you're not really gone for good. You're integral to this site!

Well fuck. That was an unpleasant catch up.
And now I've used up all my mafia-time for today reading instead of posting/looking into zebra/trying to get my head out of Mac v. Golden and onto players I actually think have a chance to be bad.


I'm going to go ahead and vote Roxy. She obviously wants out, and has baddie claimed. I obviously don't see what good it does keeping even an inactive baddie around (if she's telling the truth), and I don't think it's fair to ask someone to replace into the situation Roxy's departure created.
So I'm voting there.

Hopefully during the night phase I will have time to do some work here, but I can't stick around now.

I'm here. I just....don't know? I think both Mac and Golden are civ? If it really were a 1v1 and I HAD to choose one of them to lynch, I think I'd lynch Golden...but I would do it thinking that there was a very good chance Golden was civ.

I think, honestly, that zebra looks the worst out of the whole exchange. She's been subtly fanning the whole thing along, and using key moments to set herself up to look fantastic regardless of the outcome. She hasn't fought hard against the accusation that she's Golden's teammate because she know if he's lynched, he'll likely flip civ (though she's gambling that he's not empire), and she'll be cleared as a hutt....which I think she is.

Unfortunately, I gotta go to a Christmas party, so I'm just going to have to leave that little turd and run. I am NOT in any way sure of this read, it's just an inkling that I thought I would share. Tomorrow, I hope to look and see if the evidence actually backs up my gut feel by looking closely at z's role in the Mac/G conversation, and by looking at her interactions with known Hutts. I probably should've held off on saying anything until I did that....but now I've typed all this shit I can't be bothered to delete it.
Sorry, Z. Don't feel like you need to respond/defend until I actually make a case, k?

Mac, can you answer my question to you, pretty pretty please?

Golden, if someone were hypothetically going to go on a hunt for your role hints....where might they begin? Especially if this person happened to be rather obtuse and bad at picking up hints......

Mac: is your case on Zebra being a hutt entirely dependent on Golden being one, too?