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My personal issue with that philosophy is Civvies don't know who other civvies are. I rarely trust anyone at all when i play mafia, so while i attempt to help the civvie cause with perspectives that can help civvies make informed decision, I don't feel comfortable giving up my chief headdress.S~V~S wrote:But I think the "*I* wanna win" culture we have going would see more civvie wins if it became "*WE* wanna win".
lol. Also, my bad AP :PRoxy wrote: Made - checks SVS for King of the Swamp and learns he is not King of Swamp Castle.
SVS - Deeflects to Made. Made was found not to be King of Swamp Castle.
NO!Dana wrote:Alright! Are we allowed to talk to the hosts?Roxy wrote:NO!Dana wrote:Are we allowed to talk to dead people?
right?Enrique wrote:Will someone rezz me already
Basically, I just wanted those who voted for me to repeat(or say for the first time) that they think I'm the most suspicious so they don't get any undeserved advantage at my death.Metalmarsh89 wrote:So you think that maybe the secrets to AP's role are that he would sacrifice himself for the surival of Lancelot? That fits with the movie description. I am actually very inclined to believe this.Long Con wrote:I understand that Made has to be lynched, but if there were wagers on the outcome, I would put a small bet on him being the Civvie role that A Person's lynch alludes to. A small bet, as in I'm not super confident, but I still kind of think it.
Too much reasonable doubt though.
This would mean that Made is Sir Lancelot though. Hmm...
Made, I do think you are very suspicious. I have said so countless times since Day 1. I have voted you every single day (though may Day 2 vote changed later to Enrique). The thing that is making me less suspicious now is some game mechanic logic, NOT from your playing. I'm really uncertain as to what you are asking of me (and everyone else) in this post.Made wrote:Ok this argument is the type of argument any mafia can get behind. It's hedging your bet. If I flip mafia, then they voted me so they're happy they voted me, but when i flip civvie, they're safe from criticism as they believed I was civvie the entire time.Long Con wrote:I understand that Made has to be lynched, but if there were wagers on the outcome, I would put a small bet on him being the Civvie role that A Person's lynch alludes to. A small bet, as in I'm not super confident, but I still kind of think it.
Too much reasonable doubt though.
If you think that I am less suspicious than someone else, then pursue that person and vote for them. Don't just vote to kill a civvie. It shouldn't matter if I come up in discussion. In any other game, If you thought someone was suspicious, but another person thinks someone else is suspicious, you don't agree to have them lynched to prove them wrong??? If other's are misguided, push forward your theory instead. A civvies most powerful tool is their vote, and if Mafia can take that from them, then civvies lose all power and mafia wins.
Mafia isn't going to start cooperating and listening to town because i'm dead.
There are easily enough doubter to keep me alive, but even if you don't see me as innocent enough to vote to save me, vote who you think is guilty.
MM, Canuck, BWT, LC, and Bullz: Either admit I am mafia and vote for me, or vote who you think mafia is.
(Also i still need Who people think is suspicious if(when) I flip civvie. I only have them from llama(SVS) and Dana(Llama), and I already directly asked MM and Canuck.)
It's cool. I'm Made, so I'm allowed to say stuff like that. Also, nice to finally meet you. I love your emotion!LoRab wrote:Just saying.Made wrote:Either admit I am mafia
Ok this argument is the type of argument any mafia can get behind. It's hedging your bet. If I flip mafia, then they voted me so they're happy they voted me, but when i flip civvie, they're safe from criticism as they believed I was civvie the entire time.Long Con wrote:I understand that Made has to be lynched, but if there were wagers on the outcome, I would put a small bet on him being the Civvie role that A Person's lynch alludes to. A small bet, as in I'm not super confident, but I still kind of think it.
Too much reasonable doubt though.
Alright. If I'm lynched today, and I do flip civvie, who do you most suspect for Mafia?Canucklehead wrote:Huh? "Not a hill I want to die on" is a figure of speech.Made wrote:In what scenario would you die if you voted to save me, but I still died and flipped civvie?Canucklehead wrote:Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.
This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong.birdwithteeth11 wrote:Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.
So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.
Votes MadeIf it would make you feel better about me, I could ineffectually vote for Mongoose again, because that empty gesture would totally avoid the inevitable lynch of Made today. I think we need to move on. A townie might die. I hope that's not the case, but I've done what I could to sway popular opinion away from that and have been unsuccessful. The civiness of Made is not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so yeah. I'm going to concede this one, vote with the majority, and take my share of the blame if he turns up civ.
Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.I didn't literally mean I thought I would die.
I meant to imply that I am not so sure of you being a civ that I'm willing to continue standing up for you to my own detriment (i.e. garnering increased suspicion on me).
In what scenario would you die if you voted to save me, but I still died and flipped civvie?Canucklehead wrote:Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.
This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong.birdwithteeth11 wrote:Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.
So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.
Votes Made
Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.
As a point to both sides, He was positive in Misfits as mafia, but he was right.S~V~S wrote:Not insanified anymore?Keterman wrote:There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.
And why exactly? I have explained myself a jillion times, yet it seems people all suspect me for opposing reasons. For suspecting Made, for not suspecting made, for backing off of Made, for not pursing Made hard enough. Lots of people have done that re Made.
Why just me? Good question.
I honestly thought you had info. After your "positiveness" in Fight Club, you need to throttle back a bit on the assuredness. You were positive LC was "confirmed civ" and he was bad, and that llama was bad and (at that point) he was one of the top civvie roles. We don't play the same as at MafiaScum, we have different tells. Next time you have a forced vote, wait till closer to the end of the lynch, and just make one post. That way no one believes you are onto anything.
And apologies for the double tMade wrote:Well while you're here, what was your opinion of my argument against MR?Keterman wrote:There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.
Well while you're here, what was your opinion of my argument against MR?Keterman wrote:There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.
Damning....voting Canuck. Her argument seems to be that while i'm alive, nothing constructive could possibly happen and that it's hopeless to try to convince others of my innocents. Canuck, would you of voted me if SVS didn't?Keterman wrote:That's not the point. She defended you...yet voted for you. She thinks (or more likely knows) that you're town...yet is contributing to your lynch. What town motivation could there possibly be for succumbing to a mislynch? There's no way around it, she has to be scum.Made wrote:I assumed that your text was scrambled and it was a force vote. As for Canuck, I'm honestly not sure at all. Defending me would give her a ton of civvie cred upon my death.Keterman wrote:Also, Canucklehead compares herself to bwt with her position. Yet their positions are clearly completely different. bwt said that he thinks that both SVS and Made are bad, and that it is only a matter of which one of them is more likely to be bad. Canucklehead thinks that Made is town and didn't even mention the possibility that SVS is bad in her post, only referencing her to ask Made a question. I am now willing to lynch Canuck.
linki - When did I say I was cursed? My keyboard was having problems. I would type a sentence and I would have to wait 30+ seconds to find out if it would render in the reply-machine-whatchamacallit. I got sick of how time consuming that was so I just started posting whatever ended up showing up. Now I've found a solution for it so it's all good.
I assumed that your text was scrambled and it was a force vote. As for Canuck, I'm honestly not sure at all. Defending me would give her a ton of civvie cred upon my death.Keterman wrote:Also, Canucklehead compares herself to bwt with her position. Yet their positions are clearly completely different. bwt said that he thinks that both SVS and Made are bad, and that it is only a matter of which one of them is more likely to be bad. Canucklehead thinks that Made is town and didn't even mention the possibility that SVS is bad in her post, only referencing her to ask Made a question. I am now willing to lynch Canuck.
linki - When did I say I was cursed? My keyboard was having problems. I would type a sentence and I would have to wait 30+ seconds to find out if it would render in the reply-machine-whatchamacallit. I got sick of how time consuming that was so I just started posting whatever ended up showing up. Now I've found a solution for it so it's all good.
And you're not cursed.Keterman wrote:So you were down to lynch someone who you think is town just because everyone else is voting for him? And you wrote this post before he had as many votes as he does now? You're scum.Canucklehead wrote:Made: why would SVS work so hard to get you, specifically, to trust her?
Anywho, I'm kind of in the same mindset as bwt on this one: I defended Made for a while b/c I thought his zany style seemed like crazy civ Made from misfits, and I legit thought a lovers scenario was a possibility...but Made denying that, and the inability of the thread to look at/talk about anything without it always coming back to Made means I'm willing to go along with the GroupThink here and vote for him. I do legitimately believe he's a civ, but I have no way of being certain, no way of proving that to anyone, and honestly very little chance of changing anyone's mind. And I'm not so proud that I'm unwilling to defer to people who feel much more strongly that he's bad than I do thy he's good. So
Linki: whooooaaa. I left this response sitting I posted for many hours. Posting anyway, reading linki later
To be honest, i figured the capitol S at of the end of his name was just stylizationDana wrote:juilets wrote:Yes, Sawyer is reywas. It is sawyer spelled backwards. He used to be sawyer so some of us still call him that every once in a while.Dana wrote:Bea, is Sawyer someone in this game? Also I'm glad you're feeling better!How did I not put that together... Haha, my bad, I totally should have been able to figure that one out!bea wrote:oops - sorry - reywas = sawyer. He used to be sawyer then went all backwards with his user name. I always have to think harder to type reywas than sawyer so - yea. sorry I wasn't more clear.
Fair enough, but before I died( inb4 lynch switch) you should say in thread who you'd suspect when i'm dead. think on it!Metalmarsh89 wrote:Enrique was before he died. Tbh, I don't have another one right now, which is why I'm not discussing you right now and observing more than anything else. I voted you and am expecting you to die today, and so am focusing my attention away.Made wrote:Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?
Now that is interesting. Ketterman never explicitly said he was cursed/vote forced, but you just did?thellama73 wrote:I don't know.I am not paying attention to him. But yes, I was unable to vote, so that seems unlikely.S~V~S wrote:OK Llama~
Has Boogs been silenced, you think?
I doubt it? Silencing him doesn't seems to push any agenda forward, and Llama (assuming he was actually silenced in the beginning of this game) was both unable to vote and unable to talk.S~V~S wrote:OK Llama~
Has Boogs been silenced, you think?
thellama73 wrote:Nota bene: "I'm gong to flip civvie." not "I am civvie."Made wrote: I'm going to flip civvie.
Llama, I could quote a few times where i've said that i am civvie specifically if you'd like.Made wrote:Actually...when you say it like this, a seemer even existing in a game where roles aren't revealed sounds incredibly over powered.Bullzeye wrote:Where are you being ridiculed? I haven't seen anything like that.Metalmarsh89 wrote:
I don't think you understand. I DO agree that there is more than one baddie team. The problem is that I'm being unjustifiably ridiculed for saying so while the same people, including you, are on board with the idea. Can you explain that one?
Seemers tend to appear as a civ role rather than their own. Generally they get to choose, but you bring up a good point here. A seemer presumably wouldn't know any civ roles (aside from the ones revealed so far which includes some that are alive). There is the possibility they'd just show up as a random civ but I don't think there is any reason to believe a seemer exists in this game. Personally I tend to only be open to the possibility if we're told one exists and don't like people assuming any old lynched civ is a seemer unless there's very good reason to because I think it's a weak as hell way to justify killing a civ.Made wrote: Just a questions about Seemers (which i am not one of). Would they have a role that doesn't exist in the game or any role of their choosing? Because if they have the latter, they'd also need to know every single role that's in this game, which sounds a bit overpowered.
To be fair, the game has been me centric enough to prompt someone to do so, see Enrique.S~V~S wrote:Yup, my whole game was played to trick you.Made wrote:Honestly I'm just waiting for support to come for me out of no where.juliets wrote:where is everyone today? You can post and watch college football!
Its happened enough times where it wouldn't be surprising.
At this point I just want to make sure that the right people are in the right place when everyone flips the hell out when I flip civvie, but the thing is, I don't trust anyone.
For the majority of the game I've trust SVS on the basis of perfect logic. When she essentially started the bandwagon by following ketterman's vote(which I couldn't reason based solely on logic) but was wrong, when it was brought to my attention how well seemer would assisted her when I do flip civvie, and when suddenly she's sure I'm bad, I had to step back.
It makes sense in retrospect tho. The logic she's been following all game was a ruse to trick me into trusting her. I guess what i've learned from this game is to trust facts before people and motives before facts :/
I'm going to flip civvie, and people are taking stances on me, the stance they take can very easily give different people advantages.juliets wrote:Made i snipped this quote because I just wanted to ask you about this one thing. What do you mean that you "want to make sure the right people are in the right place...when you flip civ". I don't understand.Made wrote:
At this point I just want to make sure that the right people are in the right place when everyone flips the hell out when I flip civvie, but the thing is, I don't trust anyone.
And Dana, hahahaha, I hope you go to a football school!
Honestly I'm just waiting for support to come for me out of no where.juliets wrote:where is everyone today? You can post and watch college football!
The only person who knows this even happen was dana.fingersplints wrote:Someone who I absolutely do not get along with has recruited me before.Made wrote:Honestly SVS, I started a poll to get enrique banned from the irc channel he runs, I wouldn't trust him on a team with me :P
Also check out the poll....and remember there is no double targeting.....something is very off...
This would be a good reason for you to recruit him because no one would expect it.
I hit depression and acceptance a while ago, keep up :Pthellama73 wrote:The five stages of Made:
Denial - Anger - Bargaining - Depression - Acceptance.
Right now he is moving from Anger to Bargaining, so we have mopey Made to look forward to, and then he will calm down and let us lynch him without a fuss.
I think either Ketterman is fucking with both of us, or He was cursed by two separate groups of people, two nights in a row. Unless this is his role.... Who did Ketterman replace again?S~V~S wrote:Double targeting refers to night actions. Can you be more specific?
Keterman wrote:SVS ed my concernslaugh direct to my face! I am offended oting h't like how she had already exdoing by follLies
Yes she would. She gains the leverage needed to removed suspicion from herself when I do flip civvie. As for Ketterman, while i also think that ketterman knew more than he was letting on, I figured this would had met more resistance from SVS then a simple "K voting MR"fingersplints wrote: Made in saying SVS is suspicious for trusting someone for no apparent reason (while ignoring the fact that there could be out of thread reasons) and that she should know better due to experience. But the other suspicion (or the same?) of her seems to stem from her discussion of the possibility of a certain type of role. But it just seems to me with her experience she would know she wouldn't really have that much to gain from bringing it up.
Last time, It was actually close. This time i'm being Steamrolled. I'm desperate to turn the tide and stop another civvie lynch. Please note that the game i did freak out in, Misfits, was more like this because I freaked out after being jumped on by 3 people at once, then I flipped Civvie. JS.S~V~S wrote:He's got that desperation thing going on, instead of trying to defend, he's trying to distract.Metalmarsh89 wrote:S~V~S wrote:Linki @ Made, you're really gonna die this time aren't you?
"Me? Why i am an upstanding citizen, don't look at me....What's that over there? A wild SVS with crazy theories? BURN HER SHE'S A WITCH"
Linki~ what clues? HE WAS A BADDIE. And QFT=Quoted for truth
SVS- Knowing this game, probably not.S~V~S wrote: Linki @ Made, you're really gonna die this time aren't you?
The thing is I agree with this. She realized I stopped trusting/cooperating with her and now she wants me dead. She set up the seemer argument and used those she recruited to make sure the idea caught on so even when i flip civvie, I could still be considered mafia.thellama73 wrote:Yeah, I think she wisely decided his usefulness has reached an end and voted him early for distancing purposes.Metalmarsh89 wrote:I plan on voting him again.thellama73 wrote:My ego refuses to let me believe that SVS would not have recruited me, so I think you are the recruiter, Made.
Hey guys, remember the last time Made was up for a lynch and he totally weasled his way out of it? Yeah, let's not let that happen again.
I'm not completely caught up, but do you still believe that SVS is on Made's team?
It's always possible that I'm wrong though.
But the thing a seemer in a game with no given rolesS~V~S wrote:JC, a game where roles are not known is the BEST opportunity for a Seemer; no one to dispute the role they claim to have. No one even knows what roles exist.
And I discussed this at length~ the people openly supporting Made made me wonder why they were doing so. Him flipping civ if he was ever lynched would be a good reason, i did it with a seemer on my team once. It's a fairly standard play. And I have explained this more than once.
she did just said she'd recruit me firstthellama73 wrote:My ego refuses to let me believe that SVS would not have recruited me
^Dana wrote:It means he wants to try to get me to vote for you in hopes of getting a lot of others to agree and vote for you too. I think.S~V~S wrote:What does this mean?Made wrote: You gotta believe dana. Gonna pull a SVS and campaign for your vote in hopes of starting a bandwagon
What I am saying is that I had the most votes and didn't die. So the lynch was switched from me to Ap. If Lynch switch has any technical mafia term i'm not aware of, that is not what i meant to imply.S~V~S wrote:Also, you admit it was a lynch switch? Nothing to do with Concorde?
You gotta believe dana. Gonna pull a SVS and campaign for your vote in hopes of starting a bandwagonDana wrote:I'm not sure if there's any way to save Made today, but if he's good I will definitely turn my attention to Llama first and then SVS.
