The Syndicate

Turnip Head wrote:Thanks Enrique for making me think you were Alfred the first couple of days, only to suddenly accuse me of being Alfred and I was all like WTF! Thanks MM for eventually making me realize you were Alfred, only for you to be NK'ed.

I blame you for being so quick to assume that.

I want to play a game like this again. What do you have for us next, Epi?

Just a little before he died, sig started heavily hinting at Mr. Freeze so that I would not lynch him, which is hilarious because it only made me want him dead much more Although ideally we would've triggered Cuckoo Freeze first.

My four choices at the start of the game were:
Tony Zucco
The Joker
Mr. Freeze
Renee Montoya

So the first two days were amazing for me. Honestly I thought Dom was Montoya and that's why I voted for him. What a mess.

juliets wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I was so nervous I was gonna get crowed before endgame. I almost intentionally got myself lynched since I could win dead or alive.

I know, I thought about the same thing but I thought Mr. Freeze was still alive and would turn into a serial killer if I died.

You should've done it

DharmaHelper wrote:I was so nervous I was gonna get crowed before endgame. I almost intentionally got myself lynched since I could win dead or alive.

I wanted to blow the game open. I needed a Falcone win to make sure Montoya was dead, so I was gonna stall the game as much as possible. Tonight (or tomorrow, depending on the lynch's result) I was gonna "slip up" and post a fake BTSC message implying I was Thorne, getting some of my biggest suspects out of the way ("we should get Bullzeye lynched" etc, also saying I'd kill MP and hoping the mafia would follow ). Then the following day I was either going to be lynched, or maybe try to sway the thread to get Dom/Lorab for good before the Mafia. Once I was lynched, I had an extra life I won solving the mystery so y'all would have had to spend two days on me. That would've opened the Lazarus Pit, hopefully bringing more baddies back that you'd have to spend your lynches on. I wanted to do this so badly smh.

SVS why didn't you want to be my friend?

god fucking dammit i was so close

Dom

juliets it's up to you

The Scarecrow lying at this point is just WAY ballsy, has Dom ever done something like this before?

Dom trying to use the you love talking about your own role! earlier kinda rubbed me the wrong way, but I don't think the Scarecrow would have missed the opportunity to spook someone last night.

lmao what if

@Hosts: Can the Scarecrow spook himself?

give me a percentage of how sure you are bullz

I mean the thing here is mostly that I don't agree with your reasons why LR can't be the Scarecrow, but why Dom?

Bullz when you're the Scarecrow you straight up don't want your victims dead. Common sense is not get them killed lol. It's not a mafioso protecting his teammates, it's a manipulator trying to keep his pieces in place.

I'm mostly inclined to agree with Typh's case, I think it's exactly the kind of cross-checking that was necessary to get the Scarecrow. I don't necessarily agree that the waffling on Dom is a point against her because, yeah, she changed her mind but I agree Dom is almost certainly not the Scarecrow now. She's still spent the whole game steering clear of other victims and I think that's very telling.

linki- yeah Bullz that's a bit too many layers of wifom. I don't think the Scarecrow was counting on being examined this closely.
Matt I don't think DH is a cop but otherwise idk.

Bullzeye wrote:It benefits Scarecrow more to not look like he doesn't want his victims dead. Somebody going around saying let's lynch *scarecrow victim* is going to look a lot less likely to be Scarecrow and therefore draw less attention.

Yeah Bullz you might be overthinking that a little.

Typhoony wrote:

juliets wrote:Typhoony, a question about your Lorab case. You said that she now waffles on Dom since he got scarecrowed - or says he did - last night. Doesn't it make sense for her to waffle on him given the circumstances (him saying he's been scarecrowed)? I don't understand why that is a point not in her favor. What am I missing?

Scarecrow does not want to lynch the people that are scarecrowed.
Lorab suspected dom when he was not scarecrowed.
Now Dom is scarecrowed and she waffles.
To me, that makes sense from a scarecrow perspective. I feel like you're looking at it from a different one.

This is a very good post.

Bullzeye wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Matt wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sorry Bullz, I just don't have any large reason to believe Dom is Scarecrow over anyone else at this point, and he is reading genuine to me.

I take comfort in the fact I won't be the only one who loses because nobody agreed with me. I know it's not a huge case but it is something I feel strongly about and I have already pointed out what I think is a pretty big hole in the case for LoRab being Scarecrow.

This post makes me wonder if Lorab and Bullz are some sort of Falcone/Thorne or Falcone/Catwoman pairing, and Bullz is telling us the game is about to end with a lot of losers if we lynch Lorab.

Hrm.

I have no idea what LoRab's role is, but I'm 100% sure she isn't Scarecrow. What night was it she targeted you to need MP dead? Five? Yet Typh himself says she wouldn't have been around to know MP's role had been figured out by that point.

She posted both Day Five & Night Five, though

This proves Typh wrong just as much as it does me in all fairness. If she was around then she probably could tell that MP's role had been made obvious. Typh says Scarecrow not targeting MP himself til night 7 is evidence for LoRab being Scarecrow as she maybe didn't know what had happened until then.

Scarecrow did start making people need Robin dead around that time, to be fair.

Matt wrote:

Enrique wrote:I stick by the notion that we wouldn't regret lynching one of Matt and DH. Matt kinda brings up a good point in that trying to cast suspicion on MP doesn't make much sense as Scarecrow or Falcone, but it's still super shady to try to get him lynched even when he believes he's a civvie. Maybe save him for later but I really don't think Matt is a good guy here.

Excuse me? I never believed MP to be a civvie because he is not a civvie.

Enrique, I think you're thinking of the name "Robin" and you auto go "oh civvie", but no. Robin is an independent. A civ friendly indy who shares some civvie interests, sure, but an independent nonetheless.

Regardless, after Golden showed some class by admitting he needed Mac dead and not going after him, I felt like a dirtbag and stopped going after MP myself. It's ridiculous that I felt bad anyway, considering...yup, MP is not a civilian.

And again, if I was Falcone, I would've never brought MP up in thread and I would've NK'd his ass, no joke.

DH - Do you think SVS is a civvie? I'm not asking you if she's Scarecrow or Falcone, I'm just asking if you think she's civvie.

lol god quit the outrage you know exactly what i mean

I don't think Dom is the Scarecrow either, I don't think he would lie about being targeted last night. He's been a little more all over the place recently, and normally I'd find something fishy about that... but I still don't think he's lying.

I've been reading LR as civ for a while, and even though I do kinda like Typh's post on her, I'd have to do an ISO before adding her to my primary suspects list.

I stick by the notion that we wouldn't regret lynching one of Matt and DH. Matt kinda brings up a good point in that trying to cast suspicion on MP doesn't make much sense as Scarecrow or Falcone, but it's still super shady to try to get him lynched even when he believes he's a civvie. Maybe save him for later but I really don't think Matt is a good guy here.

she dothn't

Okay, guys. Here's the thint. I can guarantee you I am not the Scarecrow, the exact same way I told you I wasn't Nero's partner. That is not how I play. Like, sure, SVS can say "I created my own WIFOM situation" but it's simply the truth here. I don't fuck around like that. I wouldn't have taken such a risk as bussing my teammate on Day 3 for no reason or making the conversation about the Scarecrow for no reason. Neither of those actions did ANYTHING to benefit me. First, well obviously I wasn't Nero's teammate, but now, the Scarecrow was not being discussed, I was not being discussed (in fact I was commonly brought up as one of the most trusted players). The best argument I have seen anyone make against me is that I could've been Falcone trying to distract from a Bubbles lynch, and I'll grant you that is a good point. But let me reemphasize this... I would never play like this as the Scarecrow. I don't make these kind of inefficient moves.

As a Scarecrow, you know what I would've done? First of all, I would've never skipped a night. You can be sure I was toxin'd on Night 9 because that's the night Mac died, and Mac had already strongly implied he was Scarecrow'd before. If I was lying, surely somebody else could've called me out. I would not waste a night for an unnecessary WIFOM, if my win condition was to have over half of the living player hallucinating by endgame.

Second, the targets. Why would I target Golden on Night 1? He and I had already clashed early in the game, and back to this point, I don't create completely unnecessary connections to my role like this one. Do you know how much simpler it is to just avoid the people you fight with and then not be brought up at all? Yeah. Maybe in another game I could've killed him or something, but with a role like the Scarecrow, targetting him doesn't do ANYTHING to benefit me and just adds me on a list.

Another thing I wouldn't have done? Targetting MP, then asking people to kill MP. Repeating all my points here, about how I like to play efficiently and don't make moves against my own win con. As the Scarecrow, I would want MP alive by the end, as well as anyone that I had targetted. I would think Robin is the last role I would name here, since nobody would need him dead otherwise and obviously lynching/killing him is just a big distraction for everyone. I would want to trim down the fat with fat worth trimming. Get rid of inmate roles or even GCDP/Mafia roles that bring the game closer to endgame. Because I need to make sure I hit enough people who will survive before I myself die as part of some unrelated bullshit. I would be making my bets from early on and work on those goals from that moment onwards.

You guys can be sure I didn't build my entire game night by night on creating WIFOMs. I may be a little unorthodox but I'm not a completely unreasonable person. If I'm telling you that the Scarecrow's moves are not my style, it's because they're not. I don't create situations that I could easily avoid.

Because ultimately we all need the Scarecrow dead, not our only confirmed civ.

I have no idea what's not to believe but okay. I have no intention of lynching you if that's what you're worried about.

Matt wrote:The targeted and their targets...

Golden - Mac (Bullock, Golden?)

Mac - ?

MP - Batman

Matt - Boy Wonder (MP)

Bullz - Scarecrow

Dom - Boy Wonder (MP)

Enrique - ??? Looked through your ISO Enrique, can't find who you were targeted with.

Robin as well. Part of me was kinda hoping that the Mafia would kill him so I didn't draw attention to it, but oh well.

Typhoony wrote:My idea was to check the scarecrowed peeps and see who never went after them.

Not whatever you thought it was

Oh I thought it was the opposite. Like, who would take advantage of their situation? Though that actually doesn't make sense... sorry I'm a little sleep deprived and not thinking very well.

I'm reminded of the cross-checking idea that in the end no one actually did, but looking back I'm not sure it's that good. Scarecrow wins when half the living players at endgame are toxin'd, why would he try to get them lynched? I understand it's sort of a chaotic role to manipulate people, but I think the best use of the role would be to target players you think will survive and push them to the endgame.

So if he's asking people to kill MP he's either really confident that MP won't die, or making a sloppy move that could cost him the game. Especially since there's no team that needs Robin dead for endgame.

Personally I don't think the Scarecrow would do that. It would be super inefficient and the game is gonna end at any moment, he has to focus on having his win conditions met before he dies or the game ends.

It's kinda funny, though, now that I think about it. Asking people to kill MP seems like a bit of an oversight, doesn't it? He would want to keep the toxin'd players around, right?

I encouraged Scarecrow hunting bc the Scarecrow fucked me up, I thought I was pretty transparent about that.

Golden that post looks super desperate... like you reallyyy wanna end the game just now.

Dom wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dom wrote:I'm down for lynching bad guys, but a lot of civs can't win if we end the game right now.

Do you want to risk none of them winning? I don't desperately...

It's a tricky situation, the biggest concern for me would be ending up seeing Falcone win by doing this.

Civs shouldn't lose this game (as a team) from here. If my inmate isn't dead, I'm ok with that.

But.. there probably isn't too much harm in taking out a couple of specific people if we felt they were inmates.

I would like to remind people that Catwoman is inmate 3 and Two Face is inmate 6, so there are no townies who need either of them dead to win.

We know the Joker is gone, we think Poison Ivy and the Penguin are gone. I personally think Ra's Al Ghul is gone.

That leaves us with Bane, the Riddler, Scarecrow, and Mr Freeze. Does anyone have evidence Freeze has been around recently?

Lynching some of the absentees might not be a terrible idea. Each of them could be inmate, but they could also be townies that we no longer need to lynch their inmate equivalent.

^

Bullzeye wrote:

Enrique wrote:Voting DharmaHelper because I really got more important shit to do and I wanna get this out of the way ASAP. He is one of my top Scarecrow candidates, has a vote already, and only SVS has a civvie read on him. Good enough for me.

Convince me DH is Scarecrow. I already think he's probably an inmate. What makes him one of your top candidates?

Process of elimination pretty much. Could also see it being Typh but I don't really have time to overthink this atm.

Voting DharmaHelper because I really got more important shit to do and I wanna get this out of the way ASAP. He is one of my top Scarecrow candidates, has a vote already, and only SVS has a civvie read on him. Good enough for me.

Bullzeye wrote:

Enrique wrote:Does anyone think DH is good at all?

I dunno, do you?

Golden wrote:I mean, how many times do we lynch bubbles as civ for the exact same reasons before we stop finding the behaviour suspicious?

Fair question. Another question I have is "if we lynch bubbles and she flips civ, how may people will assume that some other no-show is obviously the real baddie?"

Not particularly, nah.

Does anyone think DH is good at all?

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I don't think Catwoman has a role that facilitates being told you were targeted.

Would be kind of a bummer if you didn't know you had no win condition.

I read it as copying the win condition rather than removing it.

I interpret this the same way btw.

Matt wrote:

Enrique wrote:My list isn't a list of possibilities as such. I took myself and MP out of it for obvious reasons.

Apologies. I was vaguely thinking of this post when mentioning the "obvious civ" thing, but what you were saying was that you obviously weren't Scarecrow.

Whatever I meant, I wanna stress that any personal list I make is gonna account for what I know my role to (not) be. I would take myself off a list of potential baddies for that same reason, I'm simply not looking at me.

Matt wrote:Seriously Bubbles?

I was leaning towards a Dom vote today, but I think I'm going to end up voting Bubbles tbh. I feel she's bad, and even if that means the game ends and I lose (assuming she's the last baddie), oh well.

Linki - Oh, Enrique? Could've swore you recently said you were. I'll ISO you real quick.

I did cross myself off my own list for obvious reasons but like... come on that's not the same thing lol.

yo wth i never said im an obvious civ, why are you making things up? i dont talk like that lol.

I'm curious as to where the juliets/Scarecrow connections are coming from? I could maybeee see it but I've been reading her as civ all game.

Typh, I like your idea of cross checking suspects vs victims. I'll see if I can do some research when I'm home later.

^ (I just did a search and turns out the thing about Mac is inaccurate; MP brought him up in Day 8 and then there was that whole conversation about Golden. Point still stands, though.)

I'm not saying that I can't be the Scarecrow, but I'm not. I brought this up because I got Scarecrow'd last night, otherwise there's no incentive really. Nobody was talking about the Scarecrow, and the last person to bring him up (Mac) is dead and buried.

You already used this against me earlier in the game, Dom, remember how I was the Joker? Well maybe I talk about my role sometimes but I also like talking about roles in general. This particular one had been floating under my radar but being his victim is not cool

lmao I don't remember that game at all but it's cool that you remember. I have a whole meta that even I'm not aware of apparently.

I'm civ in this game tho and I really wanna nail the Scarecrow ASAP. The game is getting small small small and he's just gonna continue to fuck with everybody till nobody really wins.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Dom wrote:I could see Enrique, DH, or Typh doing that.

I couldn't.

Not me, not you, not Typh?

Dom wrote:So are we gonna discuss who to lynch or idly mention names until it's time to throw a vote together?

It looks like the following is possible for Scarecrow (if we wanna go that route, and I don't think it's a bad idea):
DH
Dom
Juliets
LoRab
SVS

Just based on no's and no answers.
I'm not scarecrow. Of those, my gut tells me it might be DH, but I don't really have reasons. Maybe SVS? I'm not thinking LoRab. How many lynch votes has she missed?

Typhoony?

Typhoony wrote:Ok who has claimed to have been Scarecrowed before today and can you link me to the post please? Thanks

For what it's worth, I was Scarecrow'd last night and that's why I'm bringing attention to this whole thing. Bit selfish yeah but I hadn't considered the implications of the Scarecrow still being alive.

So that's me Night 9, Bullz Night 8, Matt and Golden at some point in the past. Five more are unaccounted for.

What do you guys think about Matt actually going after MP instead of hunting the Scarecrow? I thought that was a good observation and not very civvie-minded to try to manipulate the thread like that.

Reason = I believe them.

I want to make clear that the list excluding Golden etc was my list. I'm not writing them off completely, but I doubt it's them and think that one of the others is the Scarecrow.

I wasn't accusing you of anything either, SVS. Legitimately wanted to know. You and Bullz are pretty in the clear right now, my biggest suspect for the Scarecrow is Typhoony and then I guess DH.

Who would be your best guess for the Scarecrow, SVS?

Also how do we feel about Matt casting doubt on MP instead of trying to hunt the Scarecrow?

But then again, they also all voted him before he outed himself. lol.

Retaking the Mac voters thing.... which, I know, shame on me when it was so lame coming from DF. But looking at it from another angle: Matt, SVS, Bullz and Typhoony all voted for him after he outed himself. Matt claims he was asked to kill MP, so that's interesting.

Chances the Scarecrow would make people need Mac dead (as we know he did with Golden, it'd be helpful to know on what night) because he wanted him dead and not just to fuck around with us? Would he make others vote for him and then also jump in the wagon? SVS, where are you in this conversation?

My list isn't a list of possibilities as such. I took myself and MP out of it for obvious reasons. I think the Scarecrow, from my own experience and other reports, is someone who's been paying attention... so I'm comfortable ruling out ek/Eq/Bubbles/Bass. Dom and juliets I think are civs, I think Golden at least started civ, and I had a different role in mind for SVS though I could easily be wrong.

Matt had a good response for me so I'm alright with temporarily taking him off my list if nothing pops up (Dom, he was saying he needed MP's role dead, not that he was the Scarecrow).

Bullzeye was a little less convincing in his response, I haven't ISOd him yet but if he didn't give any other indication of being Scarecrow'd before he could just be saying that to be taken off the list.

Golden wasn't Bubbles a civ for sure? Why is it Typh and Bullz that you're defending now?