The Syndicate

Fucking amazing. It's like I'm writing in a foreign language.

fingersplints wrote:Maybe I am wrong though and keys was found and is part of a civvie set/LMS group though, which could explain his disinterest since he was clearly against the searching. That could explain how he magically appeared tonight when he was discussed.

There are no civ sets. You form a set, you aren't a civ. This game is a free-for-all. Nobody wants to be civilian. Why post at all? Whom am I addressing with posts? The non-existent civs? The LMS groups that are playing against me? The mafia? The is no reason for me to post.

I'm not going to explain again why I was against the searching, I feel like I'm playing with children. Honestly, I don't want to play anymore.

HOST: I'm out. Not your fault, you've put together a good game, this site just isn't for me.

Turnip Head wrote:I'm just pointing out the facts. It looks like Keys was not around for the missed kill, and returned just before last night's kill.

a) I'm around.

b) I would never miss an opportunity to nightkill one of you motherfuckers.

@MP: how the fuck does my d1 union agenda benefit the rail roads? fucking lol. later.

I agree with most of the points on TH. The only thing that gives me pause is I don't think WW would neccessarily want to acquire the EC after his partner died - it would obviously draw a lot of attention to WW, and it's not like it would allow WW to build houses/hotels.

Long Con. If he isn't a Raily, there's a good chance he's completed his set and is no longer a civilian. At any rate, he's got to go at some point.

$9999 rob

$660 rob

$300 votes

$510 rob

$490 rob

$470 rob

$420 rob

$210 votes

Epignosis made a good case back there, I likes it. But seems the lynchtrain is headed in Hedgeowl's direction, WOO!! TOOT TOOT

I'm keen to lynch the owners of those houses, those non-civ jerks. What are the odds that one of them is Long Con?

$400 on the rob

I'm interested in hearing from keys, as he's been very quiet after the searching debate and not said much about suspicions.

People didn't like what I had to say. The one person who did was lynched for it. A few people have accused me of disrespecting Boo and his game. It continues to be said. So, yeah. Now I'm just trying to be polite and run out the clock so the game keep moving. And what is there to say, anyway? The consensus seems to be that we're all intending to ditch the civs, if we live long enough. So why communicate anything to my competitors?

Long Con wrote:
fingersplints wrote:I'm not understanding the case on LC. Boogs pushing it seems incredibly sketchy. His motivation and suspicion seems unclear. I haven't had much time to read your posts about it tbh. I've had little time outside of work though, and what I had was focused on the Zelda game. Since I am no longer in that hopefully I can get my head fully into this one and look at that some.
I'm also thinking that those supporting it could have shady motives. I mean, they're actively pushing a plan that specifically advocates going after prize winners and Civvies who have found BTSC partners over looking for baddies.

I feel like I keep repeating myself here. LC knows that I'm not specifically advocating that, but he keeps repeating it. Long Con, you can read, right? Words, I mean. Written in English. Right? Je peux passer au français si cela aide? Of course you can read. Because I know you know I don't mean to kill civs. That I mean to kill mafia. My whole lame plan revolved around that crux. But you keep denying it. I don't expect you to be so unreasonable - the only explanation is that you are a mafioso.

linki: Just so it's clear, I'm not with Boogs on the pre-emptive lynching of players looking to complete their sets. I don't know how many times I need to say that. I should probably just put it in bold at the bottom of every post.

LC, you seem to be saying that you wouldn't be as much of a threat as the mafia, but it doesn't matter to the civ if they land on a mafia-owned hotel or a non-mafia-owned hotel. Sure, mafia have the NK, but a player with a hotel is still a threat to the civs.

LC wrote: The worst I could do is build hotels and hope someone lands on them.

Civs are the vast majority in this game - you hope they'll land on your hotel? I can see how having a hotel would help you, but how will it help us? And will it really help you?

Yeah, I'm voting LC. Unionising ain't sounding so lame now, eh?

Intersting stuff there, MP7.

It would go against boo's concept of what Monopoly Mafia is about,

Boo, you feel that way? Cause I can be replaced. Seriously. Let someone else come and play properly, or whatever.

1 PM and LC defects from the civs. Fact. That's if he was a civ to begin with. Or if he was in a 3-player set and not a 2-player set.

Everything LC's saying now aside, he did seem to agree with me earlier that for those of us that are in 3-player sets, it would be beneficial to find one of those players, but leave it there and remain civilians. Lc - you actually said that lynching players that win auctions was lame - and I never said we should do that.

And for the record, since I saw it quoted and never responded to it directly, I don't think my idea of a union "carved out" what Boo had planned for this game. I was playing within the rules of the game, and within the theme of the game, too. I might be wrong but I feel like Boo deliberately set up this game so civs would consider the ramifications of their actions and come to a Nash equilibrium (

Llama), or in other words, figure out what their best move is, so I doubt he feels like I've attempted to circumvent all the fun he's planned for us.

Boogz, are you.. are you a cat?

Normaly I would agree with you that a cat doesn't posess the necessary skills required to run major infrastructure, but here you are, playing a mafia game with us, presumably typing or at least using some sort of dictation software (which in a way would be even more impressive), so fuck it - maybe you can drive a train. Who am I to argue with a talking cat?

juliets wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:Well I don't agree with the reasoning behind a FZ lynch, but it doesn't look like anyone else can get the majority now, so it is what it is. Hopefully FZ will flip civ.
keys, why didn't you vote? And who would you have voted for? And why did you wish FZ would flip civ? Aren't you a civ?

I didn't vote because I didn't know whom to vote for. Just a run-of-the-mill freudian slip. Yes I am a civ, at the moment at least.

Well I don't agree with the reasoning behind a FZ lynch, but it doesn't look like anyone else can get the majority now, so it is what it is. Hopefully FZ will flip civ.

Before I forget, just wanted to say major props to the host for getting this complicated game running so smoothly. I know it's still early days but so far it's been great.

linki: hedgeowl

169 dollar

Hedgeowl wrote:Frick $90

..Elliot? :o

Does bidding have to go up by ten dollar increments in this auction?

$100

boo wrote:Like power bids, it will end 10 minutes prior to the end of the phase (so 9:50pm EST tomorrow night).

Nevermind

$87 on Short Line

keys56000000000 wrote:Nice. I want to remind Boo that I changed my vote to Made in the thread, since I intend on bidding on this item. Coincidentally, how long is bidding open for?

Incidentally. Not coincidentally.

Nice. I want to remind Boo that I changed my vote to Made in the thread, since I intend on bidding on this item. Coincidentally, how long is bidding open for?

Host: change my vote to Made plx!

My bad, TH. Just getting a bit of deja vu from the last game, y'know? Same shit different day.

I agree that Made's post looks like it could be a slip. Maybe he just assumed that everybody else has 4 to a set, too, but then you would expect everyone in the western world to know that it's 3 or sometimes 2 per set.

One point about Epignosis: He made that $500 bid really early in the game, and at that stage I wasn't aware that we die when we run out of money, so perhaps neither was he. And you can get some good stuff from chance, so I can understand his haste to acquire it, but I'm not sure any of that will be worth $500.

Must have missed the post where Degobunny explained why he/she voted for me. Gonna be one of those sorts of games, eh? Sorry you guys didn't like my union idea. I feel like an idiot for even believing for a second that it would be well-received here.

Voting SVS, because why not. Since most people intend on abandoning the civs ASAP, I don't see the need to anyone with a reason. Not that I have one.

S~V~S wrote:Keys it almost seems like you are implying that we do it your way, or you are going to stop playing? Before you said you would stop posting, or might as well stop posting, now you are saying you will find somewhere else to play? I am not understanding your meaning in saying this. We do it your way or you won't play anymore?

I introduced the idea of a union because I thought it would be a fun tie-in with the game's theme, and what I thought might have been a good strategy. I pushed it because it wouldn't work without support. Like I said to Nijuukyugou, I don't know where you got the impression that I'm telling you what to do. I don't know if that's you being overdramatic, or if you can actually go back and quote where I've told you what to do. I've just stated the plain fact that new teams aren't civilians. Am I losing my mind here? I've certainly never intended to imply that if you do not do things my way I will stop playing. To be frank, the constant bullshit misunderstandings -- I'm asking people to cheat, I'm forcing people to play my way, I'm trying to take the fun out of the game -- is getting irksome and is why I would consider not playing here.

Birdwithteeth, I'm not saying lynch people for searching for their teammates. I don't want to lynch civs, I never said I would. I'm saying that if you find your teammates, we will have to lynch you. That is just a fact, as Boo has stated. Our priority should be the mafia with the kill, but after that the priority is to reach our win conditions, right? And that's going to mean lynching, or killing off via some other means, the other teams.

Nijuukyugou, I'm not telling people what to do. I'm sorry you're getting that impression. You can and obviously will do what you want, and I agree that having your BTSC teammates and powers will make the game more fun for you. Fun is fun, but I think trying to win is funner, and that's all I'm trying to do - take this game seriously as Boo intended, and that way maybe the other players will have fun too. If that isn't the case, then I'll switch up, or just find somewhere else to play mafia.

LC - I agree, if you're in a set of three, finding one of the three would be better than being on your own.

Degobunny wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.

1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.

2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.

Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.
That's cool, you can go ahead and do that and if you eliminate the mafia, awesome. But then y'know you are next to be lynched, right? It'll be obvious that you're in a set.
What do you mean by set. isn't everyone technically in a potential set?

Sorry Dego, yes everyone is in a set, I meant the team that is formed when a set is united. Boo said that they cannot win with the civs and that the civs cannot win with them, so they must be lynched at some stage.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.

1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.

2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.

Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.

That's cool, you can go ahead and do that and if you eliminate the mafia, awesome. But then y'know you are next to be lynched, right? It'll be obvious that you're in a set.

I agree, SVS, only 1 or 2 teams would likely complete their sets. It might be good being in a set if the civilian population is hit hard. It might suck being one of those only sets if the civs are successful against the mafia.

thellama73 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:
juliets wrote:Wouldn't people still be posting because it's in everyone's interest to try and find and lynch the baddies?
Once you're in a team, you are the baddies.
No you're not. You don't have a kill.

Boo says you can't win with the civs. I agree that the team with the NK takes priority, but if civs can't win with you, they need to lynch you.

juliets wrote:Wouldn't people still be posting because it's in everyone's interest to try and find and lynch the baddies?

Once you're in a team, you are the baddies.

S~V~S wrote:At this point I am most leery of people implying that those who disagree with their strategy of not searching are bad. I think that keeping the civvies as unempowered vanillas with no earning ability plays right into the hands of the rails/utilities.

Even the implication that playing the game within its design is somehow "cheating" feels very off to me.

I don't think anyone was accusing anyone of actually cheating. There was a conversation about nobody finding their partners, and someone pointed out that people will "cheat" and still try to find them. Niot that that actual dispicable cheating is or was or will occur.

And again, you talk about empowering civilians. You cease to be a civilian once you are empowered. That's the whole point. This game collapses when it becomes a free-for-all. THere'd be no point in posting.

Well, if that's the way the cookie's gonna crumble, I see no reason to keep posting. See y'all in the funnies.

Llama, I'd be lying if I said I didn't think you were making a good case, but the mafia also has the NK. Civs are doomed regardless, we're all racing against the clock to lynch the bad guys.

thellama73 wrote:
FZ. wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.
Isn't that what we have in most mafia games?
I don't understand your point.

I am distressed at the direction this thread has gone. I am barely paying attention to this game with all the other stuff I have going on, and it took me exactly two seconds to see why the "civs ignore all the gifts the host has given you" strategy is terrible. I can't believe how easily the flock is being led into bad decisions.

Look, building hotels is the only way we can get money (barring a few chance cards and an occasional pass go.) The Mafia have ample ability to make money and use it to buy property and other goodies, while at the same time depleting our money. If we run out of money, we die. This strategy hands victory to the railroads and utilities. Please think about it for two seconds before posting a reactionary NO U response. You, MM, Long Con, and Keys are working on behalf of the baddies with this sort of talk.

You keep saying "we", but if you go the way you want to go, there is no we.

It is better for the individual to have BTSC than not to have BSTC.

Depends. Is it better to be a civilian with a BTSC partner than a lone civ? Yes. Is it better to be a 2-man indy team against the mafia and the civs? Maybe not.

It is better for the individual to be able to build hotels and make money, than not to be able to do that.

I guess insofar as they have a cushion against dying, yes, this is probably true. Once hotels are up, poor civvies are running the gauntlet.

It is better for the individual not to be one of a handful who did not bother to try to find their teammates, facing a series of LMS teams in addition to baddies.

I doubt that many people will find their partners. You get one shot per night and there's 28 players. Maybe one or two sets will form, if everyone searched. I remained entirely unconvinced that civs will find themselves surrounded by teams.

To me, it is abundantly clear that civvies who neglect to find their partners are acting against their own interests.

There's only 6 baddies. All we have to do is lynch them before we run out of money. You might find that when you're in your team against the rest of us, that hotel isn't enough to win it. Maybe civs will get lucky and not land on it.

thellama73 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.
You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I do understand that, but saying "Nash equilibrium" doesn't prove that it's in the civilians best interests to find their partners. Our best move is yet to be established.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Right! And the more players stay civ, the stronger our lynch power is.

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

thellama73 wrote:The money is very important because if you run out of it, you die.

Ah, I missed that very important point. Yes, very important indeed. Hmmz..

Degobunny wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:Well, you too, Llama!

Degobunny wrote: I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies,
I'm hoping that my fellow civs will see the benefit in sticking together. Anyone who doesn't stick with us will be forfeiting that benefit, Let me posit a scenario:

It's day 9. We've been lucky in our lynches and have eliminated most of the mafia, there's only one or two left. There are a few civs who have found a teammate, but no one's been lucky enough to complete a set. Just as you and the other civs are poised to win the game, you find your last partner and form a team. Now it's you and one or two other players, who were about to win with the civs, and now you have to defeat the civs, some of whom have BTSC with another player but aren't yet in a complete set. It's possible you could win, but the odds will be against you. It seems like you would have been better off just sticking with them all along.

and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union
How would it lead to townie death? And yes I agree that unions can be corrupt, but that's taking this union metaphor too far. I don't think they prey on people who don't want to join the union, that's not my understanding of union corruption. Isn't it more that the mafia controls the unions for their own gain? The mafia can't control this union. What are they going to get us to do? All I'm suggesting is that we stay undivided. They can't manipulate that.

Is it in the mafia's interests to have a union in this game? Can they control us? I don't think so. I think their biggest threat is being lynched. Having extra mafia teams might even benefit them, since more mafia teams means more trouble for the remaining civs.
Mafia manipulate and control games all the time. It is in there best interests to prevent monopolies from happening, cause the will run into problems when they start landing on hotels. However, I will consider what you are saying, that is the best I can do at this point.

I hear that, but is the money really important? What they really want is to eliminate everybody. What we really want is to eliminate them. That's how the game is won, right? I have to look more at the rules and figure out exactly how important the money is..

Well, you too, Llama!

Degobunny wrote: I just don't see the point for a union when we have no way of keeping track of what everyone's night actions will be. You are expecting blind faith from townies,

I'm hoping that my fellow civs will see the benefit in sticking together. Anyone who doesn't stick with us will be forfeiting that benefit, Let me posit a scenario:

It's day 9. We've been lucky in our lynches and have eliminated most of the mafia, there's only one or two left. There are a few civs who have found a teammate, but no one's been lucky enough to complete a set. Just as you and the other civs are poised to win the game, you find your last partner and form a team. Now it's you and one or two other players, who were about to win with the civs, and now you have to defeat the civs, some of whom have BTSC with another player but aren't yet in a complete set. It's possible you could win, but the odds will be against you. It seems like you would have been better off just sticking with them all along.

and that sort blind faith tends to lead lots of townie death. Plus real life unions function like a mafia anyway preying on those who don't want to join the union

How would it lead to townie death? And yes I agree that unions can be corrupt, but that's taking this union metaphor too far. I don't think they prey on people who don't want to join the union, that's not my understanding of union corruption. Isn't it more that the mafia controls the unions for their own gain? The mafia can't control this union. What are they going to get us to do? All I'm suggesting is that we stay undivided. They can't manipulate that.

Is it in the mafia's interests to have a union in this game? Can they control us? I don't think so. I think their biggest threat is being lynched. Having extra mafia teams might even benefit them, since more mafia teams means more trouble for the remaining civs.

thellama73 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote: You can lynch me if you want, but I'm a good civilian. I don't want to be in a little team. I want to stick with the herd. It seems clear that your position on the matter is different, therefore you're suspect. Idk what you want me to say to you. Go start a mafia team against me and the rest of us, I won't lynch you? What are you expecting to happen?
I'm not expecting anything. I just asked if you wanted to trade lynch votes.

I'm just trying to take this game seriously, Llama. If that's not appreciated, I'll find something else to do.

People are talking about getting these night powers and BTSC as though it will benefit the civilians. You are no longer a civilian once you start your BTSC set. You are an enemy of the civs and must be lynched. How difficult of a concept is that to grasp?

thellama73 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I'm going to hang on to my money for now. Complicated game is complicated.

Who we lynching, y'all?
IDK. You got any suspicions, Llama? I see Degobunny is against the union, so he/she must be pro-mafia! Ordinarily I'd call for his/her lynch, but it's early days yet, and while there might be civs looking to turn against us, they're still all civs at the moment, potential hearts and minds to be won over to support the union.
I don't really have any suspicions yet. I don't like the whole "nobody use your night powers" movement, though. I don't like it one bit.
Fair enough. The point I'm trying to make is, if you're looking for your BTSC teammates in order to form a new group, you're playing against the civs. Against me. That makes you a candidate for future lynches.
Shall we vote to lynch each other then? That might be fun.

You can lynch me if you want, but I'm a good civilian. I don't want to be in a little team. I want to stick with the herd. It seems clear that your position on the matter is different, therefore you're suspect. Idk what you want me to say to you. Go start a mafia team against me and the rest of us, I won't lynch you? What are you expecting to happen?

thellama73 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I'm going to hang on to my money for now. Complicated game is complicated.

Who we lynching, y'all?
IDK. You got any suspicions, Llama? I see Degobunny is against the union, so he/she must be pro-mafia! Ordinarily I'd call for his/her lynch, but it's early days yet, and while there might be civs looking to turn against us, they're still all civs at the moment, potential hearts and minds to be won over to support the union.
I don't really have any suspicions yet. I don't like the whole "nobody use your night powers" movement, though. I don't like it one bit.

Fair enough. The point I'm trying to make is, if you're looking for your BTSC teammates in order to form a new group, you're playing against the civs. Against me. That makes you a candidate for future lynches.

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