The Syndicate

Because I've touched down upon Uzbekistan toDay and nobody's really looking over it or simply chiming in. Think only Scotty did, so far.

Is nutella more of a busser or a defender?

Scotty wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Since I have a read on Ubziltoid, but it's highly unlikely he can get hurt today, I'm trying to get a second big bad read or vibe from reading overall and vote there. I don't have a final view on Syn today either, his last reply was the only genuine-ish thing I sensed from him, but not the stuff before.

Are you still thinking Ubz is BWT?

Because if so...doesn't that make Syn's vote for him look uber suspicious? I mean, he would know Ubz can't die today.

I'm waiting for Syn to clarify. You can find earlier my questioning of his explanation for voting BWT.

And yes, so far I haven't found a better profile of Ubzar.

Since I have a read on Ubziltoid, but it's highly unlikely he can get hurt today, I'm trying to get a second big bad read or vibe from reading overall and vote there. I don't have a final view on Syn today either, his last reply was the only genuine-ish thing I sensed from him, but not the stuff before.

bad vibe*, that is

Pinning baddies on Uzcamp is easier right now (wink wink nudge nudge), meanwhile we should just focus on any other vibe as well, even if we can't pin on Azucamp so well.

What's the count for teams right now? Aapje, could you perhaps double-check? Notwithstanding Night Kills we have no info on, my figures are Caelia @ 4 (1 leader + 4 recruited - 1 mislynch), Ahriman @ 4 (but really not sure about this one), Uzbekistan @ 3 (1 leader + 3 recruited - 1 lynched), Azura @ 4), unrecruited 8.

Scotty wrote:

Ricochet wrote:We can't lynch him today. Well, I did give some "planet-aligning-like" multi-role scenario in which we might have a chance, but it's not muh to hope for. Doesn't mean we couldn't target him (remember the 'outing' angle?). Doesn't mean we can't talk about who he might be (wink wink nudge nudge).

Precisely.

Shouldn't =/= can't.

linki: One time only (or is it? ). I went back to JTM to get the cry emoticon, then MM's post inspired me to use this as well.

We can't lynch him today. Well, I did give some "planet-aligning-like" multi-role scenario in which we might have a chance, but it's not muh to hope for. Doesn't mean we couldn't target him (remember the 'outing' angle?). Doesn't mean we can't talk about who he might be (wink wink nudge nudge).

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Nevermind, I see what you're saying.

What did you come up with while rereading me?

I dunno, I haven't started, because dinner.

You could help me out. Are you bad?

I have to give up on my re-reads habit. It's killing my RL.

I'm at MM now and want to kill myself.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:DharmaHelper was not lynched. It is now Night 6.

Dammit.

Long Con wrote:DharmaHelper was not killed by Ubzargan.

DAMMIT

aapje wrote: Also Rico you are 100% sure you didn't send in a PM while you had a power that night?

Yes, it slipped my mind. I can't obviously make comments on my role and what circumstances made me forget about submitting my PM, but I'm positive.

Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Synonym wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Well I missed the lunch yesterday because of the thread lock but I was planning on voting synonym. I might still today but I'm hoping to be able to do some re-reads on a few players before I make up my mind.

Nice of you to join us again after almost a 4 day absence. Any reason why you would liek to join the syn bandwgon? You wrre "plamnning" on voting Syn even though as far as I recall you've never mentioned him in any of your discussions? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also feel free to vote him if you feel that way. Votes are changeable - much to aapje s chagrin.




Sidenote: did Syn say why he voted for BWT?

I haven't posted it publicly but I'm happy to explain it. As far as I could tell BWT was extreme busy writing their dissertation (I know how stressful that can be) but still found time to post all the way up until the day they submitted (I was still rushing around between supervisors and the printers when mine was due). Then suddenly they all but disappear from the thread when they should have arguably more time and energy to contribute.

I quite liked his early contributions to the thread but to go from interesting posts while under the pump to nothing when you're not stressing is troubling.

I don't recall BWT having dissertation issues, are you sure it's the right player you spotted?

LoRab, can you give a sample of your Tone Book as to why Syn's posts don't make sense coming from a baddie? Is it just his last reply or everything he said toDay or in general?

That being said, I'm gonna move him to "mull over" after his last response. Not so much his initial D8 one, that was unconvincing and slightly irking too. I'd still like a bit of evidence that, in his culture, mafia sometimes outs mafia, otherwise saying "I'm claiming to out so that mafia will be scared to recruit me" is still a bit of a bluff, if such outing will never likely to happen.

aapje wrote:

Synonym wrote:I have also been having a running discussion with LC over night actions. I have missed every single deadline thus far due to time differences. I have subsequently learned that I'm allowed to submit actions in advance of the phase change.

Checking back I noticed there was only 1 missing pm on both N4 and N5. So basically if anyone knows they missed a pm on any of those nights they will know for certain Synonym is lying and likely a baddie. If not then it's very unlikely he is bad.

Which reminds me:
@Hosts:
How many missing for Night 6?

Also high horse? You threatened to ruin the game for 30+ players. That's a dick move and I stand by what I said about it.

Hmm. I missed sending a PM the Night I was killed. I think the Hosts made confusing posts about N5 missed PMs, though. LC said one, then "not as many as he thought" (??), BR hinted at several.

Yeah, legacy usually needs to be traced in posts. Votes, especially chngeable ones, can be too sprawling, unless perhaps the player really tunelled on somebody in particular.

Scotty wrote:Yo Ahriman. If you're watching the thread, I think it might be a good idea to redirect Ubz's kill tonight..

Warden nullifies Ubzy's immunity / Chaos switches his role, Ahriman direct Uzby's kill back to him.

WHAMMY

timmer wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:After me, please lynch SVS, Llama, possibly Tranq and bea. I still believe I wasn't wrong about my day 5 recruitment theory, but I suppose that's my ego at work. Also, I'm still confused about Sorsha. I wanted to but didn't have time to look into Rico's death. It'd be sly as hell though, if a baddie killed his own teammate and then used another teammate to rez him and somewhat clear him.

Considering Wilgy's role, and this post before he died, I'd say a lynch of the llama, Tranq or Bea would be wise to look at. I'll examine the status of those three.

I'm trying to revisit everyone (that's right, folks, a Rico Re-Read), but so far, I have bea as unlikely on Uzzbb camp, because that was one hell of a long bussing of Bubbles, if so. In fact, almost fed-to-the-lions kind o' bussing. I couldn't read too well if she may be on Azura's side, but Wilgy's post could add more perspective, sure.

linki: Timmer, can you link to bea's silencing stance from previous games, that you found? I think that's a pretty frequent stance from most players, in general, so it could technically come back to hurt anyone who said it, on the long term, whenever they do the opposite.

Well, I tried to check on JTM, but most games he played are barely updated with reveals and links to lynches/kills, so blech. Until some proof, I doubt he'd genuinely do that.

Ok, here it bloody goes.

I think BWT is Uzbekistan.

Going back to the D1 "candidates" who might be Uzbleach (sure, 50% chance. or was there a third possibility, besides him and Jilted Lover? I don't recall), Russ/Syn and Tranq don't strike me as the type who'd play completely in the shadows as mafia leaders. DH I have some clear ideas who he might be and none of them are Uzbinary. I still have to re-read Canuck, but so far, re-reading BWT was enough to make my ping-o-meter spike crazy.

ISO (important/relevant stuff) notable moodswings:
-- where did his TH suspicion go after D3?
-- real talkative D5 (and about the lynch switch in particular) after barely managing to play D4; pretty dead again D6-D7
-- where did his Sorsha suspicion go after D6?!
-- dat Wilgy D7 vote W.T.F.

Meta he offered on himself (relevant to see if he stayed true to that; hint: answer is no):
-- as a recruiter, he'd pick/value under-the-radar players
-- returned to play this game after some hiatus, with the motivation to play better, less waffly, avoid getting bitten in the ass again with his old style


Now, the case:

Since surviving the D1 lynch (whichever way you take it: he was tied with the other players, got the random ticket and survived OR Thunder pushed more votes on him in time and he survived), he's done nothing but participate in different gears (from missing a lot and having to catch up immensely to being in touch and posting a lot) and jump from case to case like mad. My impression is that he's coasting comfortably after his failed lynch, because it's not very common for people to be inclined to go back to him too soon (and we didn't).

He didn't start well in the first place, IMO, because after that claim that he's trying to improve game (more consistent, more determined, less waffly), he hasn't really improved. He hasn't improved after getting a second chance past D1, either.

He said he'd personally pick "under-the-radar" recruits, if he'd be a leader, but then focused on lynching low players on D1. Low players so far haven't been bothered a bit, except for Ahriman cleaning up DP.

Each of his votes starting with D3 was inspired (or taken) from someone else's case-making; also, each vote vanished the Day after, in favor of another vote (and case):

-- D3: voted TH because of what LoRab brought up about him
-- D4: voted Sorsha because of agreeing with "others" (he didn't even specify which others)
-- D5: votes Bubbles, because he's suddenly attentive to how her lynch failed on D4; also drops a liner wondering where the Sorsha suspicions vanished, which right now strike me as something to put in the thread, not to strike as someone who himself has no more interest in Sorsha
-- D6: votes Llama because of what Spacedaisy said
-- D7: votes Wilgy for WEAKER reasons than the "Bubbles defending", which until then he DID NOT find suspicious; breaks the tie and then the thread gets locked

On D5 he also went from "I can't imagine what the hell happened with the D4 switch" all the way to full conviction that "it was all a save attempt on Bubbles".

His entire D5 is almost fine-tuned to the overall feeling in the thread (except Wilgy's, lol) that Bubbles was saved.

After a D4 in which he barely caught up, his D5 extensive talk (and tangling, frankly, feigning cluelessness and being a bit careless in assessing things correctly) regarding the switch strikes me as wanting to seem interested and keeping appearances.

Remember him suspecting unfurl the first two Days? I think he simply had her in mind when he switched the lynch to protect Bubbles and kill unfurl.

I realize that a D7 vote to break the tie the previous Day would be suicidal for a baddie and audacious for Uzblimp of all baddies, but I think there's an angle, for Ubzulgu. BWT came in, picked Wilgy from the two wagons (Syn might still be his teamie), voted him and then also locked the thread.

I think his D7 vote for Wilgy was almost heinous, considering he went from "I'm also not quite seeing the Wilgy case" to "switch and silenced? bad voodoo".

He has done nothing the past Days, but jump on other people's cases or fine-tune his suspicions to the overall rumors. A wagon supreme. A wagon supreme. A wagon supreme.

I think Team Uzbekistan is fairly disorganized and not focused on any particular strategy. It wouldn't surprise me if a player like BWT didn't understand much of DH's failed lynch and targeted him again the same night, "nub-style", otherwise just managing to manipulate things according to his available positions. I think he saved Bubbles and then had no choice on D5 but to buss her and be in tune with everybody else.

We need to manage to lynch BWT somehow. He's bad. He's Uzbad.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Yeah I know. :P I honestly don't care that much if him (if I'm right) or the real Ubcoy (if I'm wrong) (for WIFOM) will deal with me, I made it pretty clear I'm not optimistic of surviving the game unrecruited and I expect any Night from now on to be my second dance with death.

Plus maybe other roles can join forces (except if they're aligned with him, of course). For instance, I'm noticing the Warden of the Inner Eye could potentially nulify his role.

Ok, I'll prep the case in a jiffy.

This oughta be good.

Yeah I know. :P I honestly don't care that much if him (if I'm right) or the real Ubcoy (if I'm wrong) (for WIFOM) will deal with me, I made it pretty clear I'm not optimistic of surviving the game unrecruited and I expect any Night from now on to be my second dance with death.

Plus maybe other roles can join forces (except if they're aligned with him, of course). For instance, I'm noticing the Warden of the Inner Eye could potentially nulify his role.

Ok, I'll prep the case in a jiffy.

Whoa boy. I think I have something on Bugbzargy, but it would be a bit inopportune this phase, considering he has an advantageous day for himself due to position 1.

What say you? Shall we discuss it anyway?

aapje, I have not seen any game so far in which a baddie blows up his team, so yeah, I can't imagine that being kosher anywhere. I think TGG threatened, after a game here, to blow up any game in the future, but that was because of conflicts about some mechanics (bringing back dead players as replacements), it wasn't in-game. I have, however, seen on JTM (where Syn plays and where I played with him once) baddies conceding when doomed to be lynched, either by breaking character or just throwing their hands in the air. It's different compared to us holding on to our defense until the bitter end, when bad, but it's something that can happen. Speaking of TGG, people should check his "mad exit" from the Teen Wolf game I also played. It was epic.

This is just for reference, of course. I would not approve of him doing either of those in here, as well.

Bullzeye, from the people who, at least on record (i.e. not knowing if manipulated votes influenced and what), were in a tie on D1, Epignosis, Golden, MP, Unfurl, SVS and Wilgy are dead, so there are fewer remaining candidates alive, that's what I meant. [Of course, SVS could technically have been Ubzargan, but we'd need confirmation of him not being active anymore first.]

P.S.: Oh, I forgot DH in that "remaining few Ub/Jilt" list.

Got it, but a reminder that recruiting isn't always manual. You can avoid sending any competition efforts when the prize is being recruited by a mafia team, for instance, but at other times recruitings are not controlled. If it happens to you (or already happened ), you have to handle it.

In regular games role outing includes alignment outing, because if you out a role (just to be clear, by role I mean "character"), that role is aligned (civ / mafia / 3p). BR's mention was that, in this game, role outing doesn't happen to automatically reveal alignment (except for the four leaders), because of the recruited/unrecruited second dimension of the game. I still wouldn't recommend playing with this loophole much, though; or, at all.

You cannot out yourself as part of the mafia (out of disdain for being recruited as such), except if you're begging for a modkill or surrending under lynch pressure (you don't seem to imply that, though). However, you can certainly not, assuming "exposing ... anyone you learn about" means your mafia teammantes (in that scenario) or any other role checks (in any scenario whatsoever), out anyone else's alignment. That would mean blowing up the entire game.

I recommend clarifying this with the Hosts in private. Meanwhile, I don't intend for your meta remark to weigh much in my assessment of your claim, because nobody around here blows up or gives up when rolling mafia, just because they hate it. Play your part, it's all I'm saying.

BWT broke the tie.

Synonym wrote: I can also say that if I were to be recruited by mafia I'd expose myself to the thread and anyone I learned about.

That's not allowed.

P.S.: Wilgy had a lot of tracks and an alignment check, so maybe we should try to read back into his posts.

RIP Wilgy.

RIPIYWG SVS (or should I say IHYWR , DH?)

I'm not sure how to interpret Ubzigot's lockdown precisely. The initial deadline was at 8am (sorry, I'll just use my time zone, it's too early to make conversions) for me, so the maximum window of opportunity for lockdown was starting 2am, right? BR requested the Day shortening at 2:09, BWT made it 7 vs 6 at 2:10 and LC locked it at 2:20. That could both mean Ubzy locked it after 2am (maximum window) or as soon as everyone was fine with the Day shortening (reduced window). If such things, plus the last valid votes, would have happened later into the Day, I would have gotten the impression that Ubzala is not ok with the current wagons (ie one of his mates is tangled in it) and is rather bidding his time. But everything fits with his window of opportunity opening regardless, so who knows.

BWT being on Ubzoid team and breaking the tie together with Ubzeeth locking things would be a really "nincompoop-ish" move for him. Like handing a "Hello, I'm bad" business card to everyone. Maybe he's on the other team and got clipped, but it could also be made to look real bad for him. Worth mulling over. I'd have to check the consistency of BWT's posts, too, although my feel during the last few days was that he's not giving us a lot (or doesn't have time to). Plus, he's one of the remaining few from D1 who could be either Uzbekistan or Jilted Lover (BWT, Canuck, Rico-but-I'm-not-it , Russ/Syn, Tranq).

Again, the timing of the EoD events isn't ideal for a verdict that Ubzech waited long for something in the Wilg vs Syn dynamic to change, but there's still a chance him locking after BWT broke the tie could be telling, hence this looking like Synonym would be under his wing. Plus, I still suspect and could vote Syn again.

I have to drop by work now, so more thoughts later.

I can't stay for the next 3 hours, let alone the six hours until initial deadline, so no objections here.

Ricochet wrote:
Also, I now realize Tranq likely voted Wilgy because Wilgy voted Tranq, but it'd be still nice to hear from Tranq. They can't be both silenced, right? Or maybe Chaos Dancer's binding implies they could?

Wait, what am I on? Tranq voted Tim. Ignore this nonsense. I should go to sleep.

I can't say I object to the Syn votes growing. You in, SVS?

Also, I now realize Tranq likely voted Wilgy because Wilgy voted Tranq, but it'd be still nice to hear from Tranq. They can't be both silenced, right? Or maybe Chaos Dancer's binding implies they could?

thellama73 wrote:

Scotty wrote: In RE: Rico rezzing, I think it is supes suspicious, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Elder Shaman was recruited. Whether or not that role is civ or bad is yet to be determined. I don't notice a shift in what Rico is saying now in relation to before he died. He actually reads genuine to me, which has me scratching my head if he really is unrecruited what the rezzer had in mind.

I feel certain Rico has been recruited, but since I don't know whether he's on a good or bad team, I'm not comfortable voting him yet.

I never joke with claiming survival is my current win con and death will make me lose the game unconditionally. Everyone can trust this or not, that's totally fair within the game, but I never did abuse such claims and never plan to, because it's something I consider I have to be upright about.

Scotty wrote:

Keeper Of Ravens wrote:I am voting for Synonym. Although I have not yet had the chance to say a lot, he has had plenty of time and has not said much.

Vote: Synonym

Ok...Make sure you actually vote though.

Otherwise it just looks like you posted in the wrong account and are actually Rico.

Lol no. I voted since yesterday.

Well, I'm noticing that appje, LoRab and SVS share similar ideas on the connotations of a rezz (stuff like automatic recruitment, unannounced recruitment or "secret team") and the motivations of an recruited or unrecuited rezzer (the latter two are even synchronous in saying they'd either abstain from rezzing or rezz Typh the fun chap, heh). I guess it comes with past experience. I declare myself at a loss with this and with no prior experience to think about such connotations. I simply declared what happened, what my status is once returned and how little I can project of the Shaman's intentions. Make of it what you will.

LoRab wrote:

Ricochet wrote:You had a chance to suspect me for my rezz or my replies on it, LoRab, you asked me, then we exchanged posts about different things and now you're back on that matter after appje brought it up. That's not "I didn't get a chance to articulate before he did", the window of opportunity is too large for that to be genuine.

I get that you think an aligned rezzer would not rezz an unknown, but you also state that neither would an unaligned rezzer. So who would an unrecruited rezzer rezz in your view, if he for sure wouldn't rezz an unknown? Isn't everybody "unknown" to him, if he's unrecruited?

Even if you don't think I'm being genuine, I am. Sometimes, I think about things before I come to conclusions, so the too much time doesn't make sense. And yes, aaple posted what I had been thinking, but I hadn't posted yet. You don't have to believe me, but it's the truth. But keep convincing yourself that I'm not legitimately coming to conclusions, even if they are different from yours or if I don't say them the very second I say them.

And if I were an unrecruited rezzer, I'd either not use my power, use it on someone I truly enjoy playing with/a friend. In the case of this game, tbh, I'd likely use it on Typh, based on the numerical thought that he was likely unrecruited and the number of players (and the host) that expressed sadness he was out of the game so early.

Yep, I can't say I believe you, in this case. I think that, the way you picked on me so far, if you were dissatisfied with my response to your inquiry, you would have duly responded. It would have been an easy conclusion to come to, by your standards, not really something to "think about" for a long time.

Well, I'm glad you're not the Shaman, in that case, or I'd be still dead.

The question was more towards LoRab, but thanks just as much, SVS. [jest color]I doubt I'm a fun player, so I guess I can expect you to rezz me. [/jest] Outside the logic you pointed out for "automatically assuming rezzed would be recruited", do you think there is any sense for a role described as "possible rezz" to imply that rezz also comes with recruiting? Do you think the Hosts wouldn't have announced a recruitment in the thread after my rezz, if my rezz came with recruiting?

You had a chance to suspect me for my rezz or my replies on it, LoRab, you asked me, then we exchanged posts about different things and now you're back on that matter after appje brought it up. That's not "I didn't get a chance to articulate before he did", the window of opportunity is too large for that to be genuine.

I get that you think an aligned rezzer would not rezz an unknown, but you also state that neither would an unaligned rezzer. So who would an unrecruited rezzer rezz in your view, if he for sure wouldn't rezz an unknown? Isn't everybody "unknown" to him, if he's unrecruited?

How come you can post as yourself, Keep?

Tranq voted Timmer why?

LoRab wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Speaker of Serenity wrote:Please lynch Turnip Head. That is all.

Remember when we got this message, then NEVER got another one after from the Speaker? What's up widdat?

We got a message from him at the start of D2, after position 1 concluded. We never got back to position 1 so far. His positions 2-5 might not be messaging. In fact, I'm pretty sure this lack of messaging since D2 tells us his positions 2-5 aren't messaging. I'm not sure if he's still alive or got killed, but there's no way to tell anyway.

Except that the roles are pretty clear that all 5 positions for that role are a message to the thread--it's how the messages work that we don't know. Seems pretty far fetched that the other positions aren't messaging.

Ricochet wrote:I keep saying I'm unrecruited, you must mean. What rezz recruitement possibility?

I don't know what I'm supposed to say about my rezz, really. I was unrecruited when killed, so I was out and done (i.e. loser). I don't know why the Shaman brought me back, of all people, but it didn't come with any recruitement. I'm still unrecruited and I'll still go down and lose the game if I stay that way and get killed again. I'd like to get recruited by the civs, because I'm fairly convinced I won't survive the game unrecruited. Team Azura clearly didn't like me and I doubt they like that I'm back either. I helped lynch Bubbles, in fact growing suspicious of her ever since her Golden D3 flip-flop, so I doubt team Ubzilly are fond of me, either.

Hmm, I made an error in assessing MoSh, it seems. I thought position 5 was up the night Dom was killed, so that MoSh couldn't have been targeted. But with position 4, you're right, MoSh is eligible.

I don't believe you. It seems too unlikely that someone would rez an unknown. Even if the rezzer is unrecruited, I think you're an unlikely choice. The night 1 deaths are the least likely recruited, which would make more sense as someone to rezz.

And we don't know that there isn't a evil rez/recruitment possibility going on.

I am quite suspicious of you. Your rez and your response to your rez don't make me less suspish of you.

That said, I'm more suspish of TH at the moment, and voting for him.

vote: TH

The Speaker's twist on his positions has been discussed before, I think quite early in the game in fact. My interpretation of "Each position appears to be the same." is that each position is possibly not the same, meaning the abilities, not a variation of the same ability. If the phrasing is that the positions "appear to be the same", how can you say it is "pretty clear" that all positions are "the same"? It would also be quite redundant for the Speaker to be designed with basically the same variation (different messaging routes) as the Keeper of Ravens, but that's also my take on it. I don't believe the version you bring is unlikely, but I don't believe mine is either.

As for your belief, go with it. Just like aapje, I imagine that your view and experience with how rezz have worked and what they meant are more significant. I don't have such experience, it's the first time I've been brought back in a game, all I know what I was and what I am (which is same answer: unrecruited) and that doesn't give me any window to analyse why someone completely unknown to me brought me back. Both appje and apparently you as well have standards as to what rezzed people need to answer and it seems I cannot meet them. I've chosen honesty about my status and about what happened.

As for you suspecting me, I have no desire to go back to what we've talked for Days. My conclusion from that was that your initial case partly doesn't hold water factually and partly is extremely subjective and overblown. I don't remember you giving conclusions about my rezz on your own after inquiring me about my rezz. For all I know, you can be surfing the wind, after aapje's own interpretation of my rezz, because it suits you in your suspicions.

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

thellama73 wrote:This is very true. I don't think anyone would rez someone not on their team.

What if the rezzer is not on any team?

Then it would be a pretty dumb move since it would actively hurt their chances to win :P

How?

Because resurrecting someone not on your team decreases your chances of winning.

What if that someone is not on any team?

If that someone is not on any team, how can someone not on any team ressurecting someone not on his non-team decrease his chances of winning (which are not team-based, but individual)?

Prolongs the game = more nk's and lynches = greater chance to end up dead = not winning. Pretty easy really.

In that case, I guess he technically made a bad move for himself. Is it unheard of in Mafia for players not to make actions or use their powers in the most inspired way, on the long run? It still doesn't mean I had anything to do with or that I can justify in any way his move or his sympathy towards ressurecting me. You'll find no answers, either, at this point. I'm unrecruited, so you won't get wiser info about me or the Shaman's moves by lynching me.

Have you exhausted all possibilities? What if the Shaman is just as knowledgeable as you and rezzed me with nefarious intentions, knowing that my rezz will make some find me questionable afterwards? What if the Shaman is on the good side already (so he doesn't have to worry about his indy "chances of winning" and rezzed me thinking I can be valuable for the civ cause?

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

thellama73 wrote:This is very true. I don't think anyone would rez someone not on their team.

What if the rezzer is not on any team?

Then it would be a pretty dumb move since it would actively hurt their chances to win :P

How?

Well assuming they stay unrecruited they need to be alive at the end of the game to win. Rezzing people prolongs the game and thus their chances of not staying alive that long. If they end up recruited they only benefit from your rez if they end up on your side.

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:The main point though was calling bullshit on your unrecruited status and your insistence that you have no idea why you were rezzed.

Call bullsuit on my status, then, make a case; but, as I've pointed out, there's not much to tie it to my rezz.

LoRab asked me why I think I was rezzed, it's not like I came out of my tomb and started opinionating on my own.

Well the thing is, I can see a reason why the Shaman would bring back certain people, even if they have not been recruited. But since you said you have no idea why you were rezzed I think we can safely rule that out now. The fact that you have been rezzed and your reaction to it is basically all I need to think you are up to no good.

I don't get it. I'm no good because I'm being honest about not knowing why someone else (that I can't even put a face on) did to me what he did? How am I supposed to defend or argue for someone else's anonymous intentions? What was I supposed to say, up to your standards and experience in how rezz people behave?

You speak in vague, introspective terms ("I can see a reason why", "your reaction to it is all I need") I don't know how to argue against.

I'm leaving in 15 mins.

I don't see why I should spell it out. It's obviously you don't know what I am referring to so I can rule out that other logical explanation for your rez. Leaving the one that you are recruited.

Again, I don't know what I'm supposed to argue with here. "I deem you bad because I know better how things work" is hard to defend through argumentation against. It slightly feels like entrapment, too. At this point, despite all your previous experience that motivates you to suspect my ressurection (which I can respect, but can't say I fully comprehend), I guarantee that you will receive however the example of the opposite being also true. I'd rather prove this to you post-game than being pointlessly lynched, but go ahead if you feel entitled and get proven totally wrong afterwards.

thellama73 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

thellama73 wrote:This is very true. I don't think anyone would rez someone not on their team.

What if the rezzer is not on any team?

Then it would be a pretty dumb move since it would actively hurt their chances to win :P

How?

Because resurrecting someone not on your team decreases your chances of winning.

What if that someone is not on any team?

If that someone is not on any team, how can someone not on any team ressurecting someone not on his non-team decrease his chances of winning (which are not team-based, but individual)?

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

thellama73 wrote:This is very true. I don't think anyone would rez someone not on their team.

What if the rezzer is not on any team?

Then it would be a pretty dumb move since it would actively hurt their chances to win :P

How?

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:The main point though was calling bullshit on your unrecruited status and your insistence that you have no idea why you were rezzed.

Call bullsuit on my status, then, make a case; but, as I've pointed out, there's not much to tie it to my rezz.

LoRab asked me why I think I was rezzed, it's not like I came out of my tomb and started opinionating on my own.

Well the thing is, I can see a reason why the Shaman would bring back certain people, even if they have not been recruited. But since you said you have no idea why you were rezzed I think we can safely rule that out now. The fact that you have been rezzed and your reaction to it is basically all I need to think you are up to no good.

I don't get it. I'm no good because I'm being honest about not knowing why someone else (that I can't even put a face on) did to me what he did? How am I supposed to defend or argue for someone else's anonymous intentions? What was I supposed to say, up to your standards and experience in how rezz people behave?

You speak in vague, introspective terms ("I can see a reason why", "your reaction to it is all I need") I don't know how to argue against.

I'm leaving in 15 mins.

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Well that sounds like too much reliance on old meta. Secret baddie team? As in a third bad team? Recruit by rezzing? Yeah, nothing of this kind is in the description. I'm not saying everything has to be written to be possible, but this is too deep into the imagination.

I died N5. D6, Team Azura recruited, then team Caelia recruited, then I was rezzed. I came back unrecruited. No recruitements happened since my rezz. Equals I'm unrecruited. Doubting I'm unrecruited is by all means acceptable, but then go back to my first life.

Well I was mostly pointing out that the rezz recruit isn't totally unheard of. Especially with these hosts. The main point though was calling bullshit on your unrecruited status and your insistence that you have no idea why you were rezzed.

Call bullsuit on my status, then, make a case; but, as I've pointed out, there's not much to tie it to my rezz.

LoRab asked me why I think I was rezzed, it's not like I came out of my tomb and started opinionating on my own.

thellama73 wrote:

aapje wrote: Speaking of Rico, I don't trust his rez. He keeps saying he has been recruited but why would anyone bother to bring him back if he is? Not to mention the rezz recruitment possibility.

This is very true. I don't think anyone would rez someone not on their team.

What if the rezzer is not on any team?

Well that sounds like too much reliance on old meta. Secret baddie team? As in a third bad team? Recruit by rezzing? Yeah, nothing of this kind is in the description. I'm not saying everything has to be written to be possible, but this is too deep into the imagination.

I died N5. D6, Team Azura recruited, then team Caelia recruited, then I was rezzed. I came back unrecruited. No recruitements happened since my rezz. Equals I'm unrecruited. Doubting I'm unrecruited is by all means acceptable, but then go back to my first life.