The Syndicate

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:He's gotten so many by now. Two of them for being unlynchable. One just for dying D1 and getting to hang out with me.

You just wish you could win games by such unreal methods.

Getting lynched Day 1 is an art.

I just wish you'd take me along, like old times.

I know that feel, the only time I got lynched on Day 1 I accomplished that with only four posts.

He's gotten so many by now. Two of them for being unlynchable. One just for dying D1 and getting to hang out with me.

Black Rock wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Don't worry, MM. It's not as bad and not being told you were recruited until dying a lonely death.

It was non-BTSC anyways. You would have been lonely anyways.

Not in spirit.

Although I understand I wouldn't have even been told who the team consists of, so not much to it, lol.

Don't worry, MM. It's not as bad and not being told you were recruited until dying a lonely death.

What positions would you have gotten if recruited?

For that matter, I still don't know what Epig's real positions were?

Roxy wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Again, you restarted the Night. That was your actual power. It was a second version of the same Night 9.

Are you yelling at your computer yet?

I am sorry I am just fucking with you bc it is fun to wind you up

Me doing that? Never.

*votes Roxy*

oops my hand slipped

what's that? the game's over?

Again, you restarted the Night. That was your actual power. It was a second version of the same Night 9.

Roxy wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Roxy wrote:I forgot to bring up why I thought there was two nights - it is bc there were TWO NIGHTS!

The first night I got to use my power. The second night I did not get to use my power bc LC gave me the lame reason that the game *must* go on and could not be stuck in perpetual night. (jk LC) Then I was silenced the second night.

I say two night bc of my perspective at the time felt like two nights.

Using my power then not being able to use my power
Not being silenced then was silenced

Get it?

Also why was I killed? I felt it was clear that I was unrecruited and I played my role to cause pure chaos.

Yes, but "restarting a Night" means that it's a repeat of the same Night. That's our perception of it.

But how can it be the "same night" when targets shifted and changed? Can't be a repeat bc if it was I would have used my ability in an endless cycle.

It's the same night, because we have to send them over again (I don't recall if double-targetting was in effect or not, but it's the same thing). It's not a change, it's a redo. You're the only exception, because of your inherent ability to restart the night endlessly, if allowed.

It's just like, when in Film Directors, the Day was restarted after a bad lynch. It wasn't a second Day i.e. Day 2. It was Day 1 again, despite our targets shifting and changing (i.e. not lynching again the same guy).

A restart is not a verbatim redo. That'd be Groundhog Day Mafia material.

Roxy wrote:I forgot to bring up why I thought there was two nights - it is bc there were TWO NIGHTS!

The first night I got to use my power. The second night I did not get to use my power bc LC gave me the lame reason that the game *must* go on and could not be stuck in perpetual night. (jk LC) Then I was silenced the second night.

I say two night bc of my perspective at the time felt like two nights.

Using my power then not being able to use my power
Not being silenced then was silenced

Get it?

Also why was I killed? I felt it was clear that I was unrecruited and I played my role to cause pure chaos.

Yes, but "restarting a Night" means that it's a repeat of the same Night. That's our perception of it.

No, Llama did. Timmer switched their powers (I'm not sure who the third player was - LoRab?). Devin got fluff messaging as Keeper of Ravens, Llama got Executioner kill.

So here's a wrap-up of what I got, of course it's still wildly incomplete, without every action and event being in its place and making sense, but it's the most up to date form.

This analysis still doesn't reveal why nobody (except SVS) wanted to recruit me or award my contest submissions.

Game!
Votes!
Theories! (lol at how dumb I imagined the epic challenges might be)

Also as a reminder of my efforts throughout the game:

The Story of Golden
The Story of Everyone Alive, Part I and Part II.

Oh, it's way in the past, but I forgot to mention.

On N2, when Llama forced me to vote Golden, I faked being silenced. The contradiction between me defending Golden the previous Days (or just being highly indifferent to the whole debacle) and suddenly having to turn on him would have been too compromising. It also made me believe LoRab was forced to do the same, suddenly jumping on him, but if so, she found a way to work with that. Still waiting confirmation on that.

Bullzeye wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Ricochet wrote:-- pick player idem on D9

I initially gave a bane to you, but then Llama decided he wanted to kill you again so I switched and gave it to LoRab.

FWIW I don't understand why he bothered trying to kill you again, and I assumed you'd be back again at some point. We were going to kill LoRab and I was going to bane you and it would've been some sort of setup attempt I think? We switched it around for reasons I'm not really sure of and I'm getting major deja vu writing this post...

I understand perfectly why.

Bullzeye wrote:I can confirm Canuck also won 5 votes from her challenge, we put them onto Llama during the day where votes for him would go to someone else. If only we'd chosen someone lynchable rather than Daisy!

Which competition was that, with Wilgy or with Roxy?

[quote="Bullzeye"

Ricochet wrote:-- pick player idem on D9

I initially gave a bane to you, but then Llama decided he wanted to kill you again so I switched and gave it to LoRab.
[/quote]

Bullzeye wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Roxy being the Supreme Judge is the funniest post-game revelation for me. I kept telling her she was crazy What happened with the Night 9.1/9.2 thing Rox?

I assume she genuinely was told she couldn't use her power again in order to prevent us from currently being in night 9.64 or whatever.

LOL

reywaS wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Speaking of reywaS, so glad I risked trying to keep him from getting lynched so we could try and use him as an ally Congrats on your win, reywaS!!!

Linki: Good thing we didn't have to find out

I was very happy to have you as an ally! Even though I knew it probably meant you were baddie mcbadderson. After Turnip Head came out with the "reywaS is the Rogue Mercenary, let's get him!", I thought i was sunk.

This was a roller coaster game for me. I thought I would be recruited by night 5 when the game first started, and when I went after Golden that was totally genuine. When he got lynched, I knew that there was no way I was continue to survive by being as aggressive as I was. Then after day 5 when I got my epic challenge (which was to not take a single lynch vote between day 6 and 10), I knew the only chance I really had to complete it and survive was to go full DisPor and disappear into the background. On day 9 I think it was someone (nutella?) had a vote on me for a while and I thought for sure I was going to fail. Then she moved it thankfully.

Great game!

What was your reward for completing the challenge? The mysterious figure thing?

OK then...I'm sorry if you already answered. I'll got through the linkitis after posting this.

Caelia - DH/Epig
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Did you get to pardon the lynch in time on Day 1?
-- Who did you heal or protect on Day 4?
-- Who did you heal or protect on Day 10?
-- How did you survive on Day 7, Night 8 and Night 9? You didn't have the immunity position.

Relicsmith - DF / Bass / G-Man (well, gee, good luck finding answers here)
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Who did you target with the "boon" on D/N1 (if you did)?
-- Who did you power corrupt on D/N2 (and what was the corruption) (if you did)?
-- What item did you give and to whom on D/N4 (if you did)?
-- Who did you give a random item to on D/N5? (if you did)
-- Who did you power corrupt on D/N6 (and what was the corruption) (if you did)?
-- Who did you target with the "boon" on D/N8 (if you did)?
-- Who did you give a random item to on D/N9? (if you did)?
-- What item did you give and to whom on D/N10 (if you did)?
-- Who did you power corrupt on D/N11 (and what was the corruption) (if you did)?
-- What item did you give and to whom on D/N12 (if you did)?

The Speaker of Serenity - Epignosis
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- What were your actual positions 2 to 5?

Seeker of the Way - Wilgy
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Who did you track N1 and what was the result?
-- Who did you track for BTSC on N2 and what was the result?
-- Whose alignment did you check on D/N4 and what was the result?
-- Who did you track for vote manipulation on D/N5 and what was the result?
-- Who did you track for BTSC on N6 and what was the result?

Chaos Dancer - Timmer
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Which 3 players did you switch powers on D/N1? (if you did)
-- Which players did you bind on D/N2? (if you did)
-- Which 2 targets did you switch on D/N4? (if you did)
-- Did you use your "chaos curse" on D/N5, on whom and how did it work?
-- Which players did you bind on D/N6? (if you did)
-- Which 3 players did you switch powers on D/N7? (if you did)

Warden of the Inner Eye - Boomslang/birdwithteeth
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Whose role did you nullify on D/N1?
-- Who did you give a power to on D/N2 and what was the power?
-- Who did you role block on D/N4?
-- What power did you absorb on D/N5?
-- Who did you give a power to on D/N6 and what was the power?
-- Whose role did you nullify on D/N8?
-- What power did you absorb on D/N9?
-- Who did you role block on D/N10?

Ahriman, Grand Master - Spacedaisy
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Whose power did you reduce (?) on N1?
-- Whose vote did you triple on N2?
-- Whose vote did you triple on N6?
-- Whose power did you reduce (?) on N8?
-- [You targeted Boomslang with a kill on N9 and it failed, I wonder why]
-- Whose vote did you triple on N11?
-- You survived a kill on N12, how?
-- Who did you block on D/N12?

The Avenger - bea
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Were you targeted on N2?
-- What power did you reflect of D/N4?
-- Were you targeted on N6?
-- What power did you reflect on D/N10?
-- Were you targeted on N11?
-- What power did you reflect on D/N13?

It seems your vote manipulations never took effect, Canuck was the only person ever to vote for you and position 4 never returned after she did. Also, you never got to take a lyncher with you, because was never lynched.

Master of Ancient Arts - Sorsha
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- How did the dragon thing work?
-- Which targets did you switch on D/N1?
-- Which players did you protect on N2?
-- No dragon on D3, huh?
-- Which 5 votes did you negative on D/N4?
-- What new target did you enforce on D/N5?
-- Which player did you protect on N6?
-- Still no dragon on D7, huh?
-- Which targets did you switch on D/N8?
-- What new target did you enforce on D/N9?
-- Which 5 votes did you negative on D/N10?
-- Which players did you protect on N11?
-- DRAGOOON
-- Which 5 votes did you negative on D/N13?
-- Dragon on D14? Huh?

Master of Shadows - Dom
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- What position did you choose on D/N1 and what was the result?
-- Did you reduce the votes by 50% on D/N5?

Shield Spinner - JaggedJimmyJay
-- What was your epic challenge?

Deathmask Shaman - Scotty
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- No dead role check on N1, I assume
-- No rezz on D/N2, I see.
-- What dead power did you use D/N4?
-- Who did you have BTSC with D/N5?
-- Thanks for the rezz again!
-- Who did you role check on D/N8?
-- Who did you BTSC with D/N9?
-- Did you use any dead power before dying D/N10?

Mistwood Ranger - Russtifinko/Synonym
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Did you find any secret on D/N2?
-- Did you check anyone for recruitement D/N5?
-- Did you find any secret on D/N6?

Ubzargan - SVS
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Did you survive D1 lynch?
-- Who did you heal or protect D/N2?
-- Why did you switch the lynch to unfurl on D4?
-- Who did you poison D/N5?

War Monger - tranq
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Who did you mind control on D/N1 and what was the result?
-- Who did you place in competition on D/N2 and what was the result?
-- What was your position 3 and did you do anything with it D3?
-- Who did you hunger on D/N4, if anyone?
-- What was your position 4 and did you anything with it D/N5?
-- Who did you place in competition on D/N6 and what was the result?
-- Did you do anything with position 3 on D7?
-- Who did you mind control on D/N8 and what was the result?
-- Did you do anything with position 4 on D/N9?
-- Who did you hunger on D/N10, if anyone?
-- How did you survive the D10 lynch?

The Immortal - MM
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Lol dat freaking gossip position 5!
-- Why didn't your N1 random kill work?
-- Which players got block and protected on N1?
-- Who did you send gossip to on D/N2?
-- Which players got vote manipulated on D/N4?
-- Which players did you protect on D/N5?
-- Who did you send gossip to on D/N6?
-- Which player got blocked and protected on N8?
-- Which players did you protect on D/N9?
-- Which players got vote manipulated on D/N10?
-- Who did you end gossip to on D/N11?
-- Which player got the same fate on D/N12 and what was that fate?
-- Which players got vote manipulated on D/N13?

Brutal Executioner - Devin
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Why did you kill all these people?
-- Why didn't you kill N8?

Azura - Llama
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- What power did you steal on N1?
-- Which votes, besides mine, did you force on N2?
-- Who did you curse on N5 and what was the result?
-- Which votes did you force on N6?
-- What power did you steal on N8?
-- Who did you curse on N9 and what was the result?
-- How did you survive on N13?

Lord of Thunder - Bullzeye
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- What votes did you manipulate on D1 and how?
-- Which element did you pick on D/N2?
-- Which player did you pick on D/N4? (did it work anymore, since Golden was dead)
-- same for D/N5
-- Which element did you pick on D/N6?
-- What votes did you manipulate on D8 and how?
-- pick player idem on D9
-- pick player idem on D10
-- What element did you pick on D/N11?
-- What alignment/role check did you pick (?) on D/N12?
-- pick player idem on D12

Druidic Elder - nutella
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Who did you heal on D/N4?
-- Who did you protect on D/N4?
-- Who did you silence on D/N5?
-- I can only assume you switched the lynch on DH, D6.
-- Who did you heal on D/N8?
-- Who did you silence on D/N9?
-- Who did you protect on D/N10?

The Gambler - Canucklehead
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- What number did you pick on D/N1? What was the result?
-- What number did you pick on D/N2? What was the result? Which players got manipulated?
-- Did you manage to steal any power on D3?
-- Any result/consequence on position 4, D/N5?
-- What numbers did you pick on D/N6? What was the result? Which players got manipulated?
-- Did you manage to steal any power on D7?
-- What number did you pick on D/N8? What was the result?
-- Any result/consequence on position 4, D/N9?
-- What number did you pick on D/N11? What was the result? Which players got manipulated?
-- What power did you steal and from which clan D/N12?

The Stranger - aapje
-- In which order did you get recruited?
-- Who did you seduce on D/N1?
-- Who did you block on N2?
-- Who did you lie detect on N4?
-- Who did you block on N6?
-- Who did you seduce on D/N8?
-- Who did you lie detect on N10?
-- Who did you block on N11?
-- Who did you lie detect on N13?

Keeper of Order - TinyBubbles
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Who did you pull over on D/N1 and what did it meant?
-- Who did you punish on D/N2 and what did it meant?
-- Who did you interrogate on D/N4 and what did it meant?

Supreme Judge - Roxy
-- What was your epic challenge?

Technohacker - unfurl
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Who did you send a coded message to and what was the message, D/N2?

Wielder of Lightning - Golden
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Which player did you pick D1?
-- Which element did you pick D/N2 and what was the result?
-- Which player did you pick D3, if any?

The Blind Ninja - DisgruntledPorcupine
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- What did the visions mean?
-- What result did you achieve with the powers on each Day/Night cycle?

Highborn Assassin - MP
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Who did you silence on N2?
-- Did you parasite anyone on N4 before dying?

Windscout - Birdwithteeth
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Which player's vote got nullified D/N1?
-- How many votes got doubled D3, if any?
-- Which night powers got redirected N4?
-- How many votes got doubled D7, if any?
-- Which player's vote got nullified D/N8?

Pyromancer - Typhoony
-- What was your epic challenge?

The Magnetarch - Bass
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Which night power got repelled N1?

Keeper of Ravens - LoRab
-- What was your epic challenge?
-- Did your position get switched on D2? If so, which clan did you message? If not, which role did you message?
-- Did you message anyone D3?
-- Which clan did you message D/N4?
-- Who did you have BTSC with D/N5? (wait, was that me?)
-- Which role did you message D/N6?
-- Did you message anyone D7?
-- Who did you have BTSC with D/N9? (wait, was that me? genuinely can't remember)

Anyway, I'm sure you all have a hunch of what's coming up from my part...

First things first, though.

Massive congratulations to our Hosts for designing and managing a game of such complexity I can only dream of pulling myself.

Congrats to people of Uzbekistan once more (I should pull a list of all the nicks that were used, btw, but I'm not that much of a maniac...plus, I'm busy), I thought Team Azura would get the glory (to my disdain at certain people in it, as well ) and that you were weakened after the Bubbles' lynch, but not only was she not one of yours, but you only lost one member by the end (well, technically two, SVS' rezz notwithstanding). You had recruited wretched roles like The Immortal and Executioner, so you pulled a mighty one.

I think I spent most of August playing this, rather than doing any serious work and yet again I contemplate never allowing myself to be this engaged, this ISO maniacal ever again, because it's simply life-consuming. My "survival" plead was genuine (although ironically wrong, due to events I wasn't myself aware of) and I was also genuine in believing I stand little chance of winning this, especially after dying the first time, 5 Days into the game. I think I did ok, but that's about it.

I feel vindicated in calling Llama's bullsuit from day freaking one (I think I said at one point that maybe it's my time to be on the losing side in our confrontations in which one suspects the other and the other slips away towards victory...well, near victory in this case - what foreshadowing!), even if it fell apart due to, ahem, "intrusions". All is well this time, but if I'll be sussed for being personal in my baddie hunting ever again I'll be pissed the next time, and the next time Llama will weasel his way out like that I'll vote to lynch him till the left click on my mouse gets broken.

Also slightly vindicated, I think, of calling out rey, nutella, Devin (I think?), even though that doesn't compensate for my BWT blunder and for giving others (such as MM) passes. I think it's very telling that killers such as rey or Devin were left to coast as low posters in this game.

Overall, a truly epic and creative game, although it has to be noted that the fun bar was dropped low quite often and between more than enough players. And when even veteran combative players are getting fed up with it, maybe it's time to reflect... I'm in this myself, I'm fully aware of that - in fact, I got my first friendly visit from the Mod of Duty in any game so far - for which I apologise. But I still apologise only partly, because I still stand by my principle: if I want to debate and discuss and I'll feel as if trying to use logic with my partner is like hitting against a wall, I will hit back hard.

And now, here comes the flood.

...Actually, no, I'll post this and work a bit more on the big one.

Oh, my role:

My epic challenge was to save two teammates with my powers. Big fat chance there, never being recruited until late.

My odds of the power working improved by 10% every cycle.

I insanified Epignosis on Night 1, but he was killed. (Irrelevant if it worked or not)

I switched LoRab's positions on Day 2, from position 5 to position 2. If it worked, it means she messaged a clan that Day or Night, no idea which.

I didn't get to silence anyone on Night 3, because of the early Night end.

I gave JJJ a random potion on Day 4, no idea what it did. No idea if it worked, either.

I forgot to use the negative vote on Day 5, because of the massive TB train. aapje, this is the part where I'm confirming that I genuinely forgot to send a PM, you can stop hounding me now.

I switched SVS' position on Day 6, from position 5 to position 3. I guess she didn't lockdown the thread, in order to not out herself to me. Sneaky snaky. OR it didn't work, even though I was at 70%, I think.

I didn't get to silence on Night 7 either, also because of Roxy.

I insanified Scotty on Night 8. I did ask the Hosts if they can throw in a "Goochy-Goochy-Goo" as well.

I took away LoRab's vote on Day 9, at a time where she voted for TH or something. Anyway, it was a symbolic gesture, because of her voting the same two people every time.

Bullzeye wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I still don't get why I failed at every recruitement contest. Nobody wants me. That is, until I didn't...? Still don't know when I was recruited, because of the Hosts forgetting to tell me, lol.

Did you try for Azura? In our two contests we picked Canuck because she used a funny/entertaining song and Aapje because he sent us a small essay on why we should pick him while the only other person sent in one sentence.

Actually, I stayed away from baddie recruitements the first times, heh. I only finally sent Team Azura a one-liner recruitement bid, around the time I died for the second time. Oh hey, that was probably me you mention, lol. But that was when I was already fed up with competing and losing over and over again, so yeah.

But there were contests without specific team designations. One time I wrote a bio story for Uzbargan, without applying for that team.

I still don't get why I failed at every recruitement contest. Nobody wants me. That is, until I didn't...? Still don't know when I was recruited, because of the Hosts forgetting to tell me, lol.

S~V~S wrote:I considered an all Dutchie first list but felt both Typh and Aapje would be too predictable so I went with Tranq because Survivor

I chose two people I had never had BTS with before; G Man because i thought he would be fun and I know he's smart, and Rico because no one would ever expect it and I would like to get to know him better both as a player and as a person. But I got my first pick. Like bea said best team building strategy, recruit people smarter than you

Aww

alas

hissssssssssssss

Scotty, noo! You rezzed me.

And then I insanified you.

ayyy for crying out loud, MM was unlynchable again

Jesus Christ...

Congrats to everyone!

Uzbargan was dead all along? I thought I asked if "Team Uzbargan" instead of "Uzbargan" implied something in the Host Kill Posts, the first time it happened. WTF

TinyBubbles wasn't Team Uzbargan. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

At least Team Azura didn't win. Killing me twice, Llama-san? Grudge much? This will not go unforgotten, sir.

I'll say one more thing, before returning this afternoon with spreadsheet madness (:Uhh:)

I had no fucking clue I was recruited, I swear. BR forgot to tell me. She went "uhh well this is awkward" when I sent my last contest to be recruited, before dying the second time. So apologises for bickering with everyone (aapje, Scotty in particular?) about being unrecruited and needing to survive. I did it cluelessly - but, in a way, it was still genuine. Cool? Cool.

When was I recruited, anyway? Which contest did I win?

Also, who rezzed me? Let's put the rezzcruiting bullsuit to rest, as well.

LOL, LoRab asked for BTSC with me. Just... lol.

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

reywaS wrote:we really live in a crazy world when Must survive to win = can't win with anyone else.

With the way this game has gone, we most certainly live in a crazy world.

TH, you and I have a tendency to simultaneously make it to late game stages together.

What's your secret? :P

I could ask you the same question

Forgetting anyone?

Black Rock wrote:

Official Announcement

Llama has been rezzed, he will not be able to be voted for today or targeted this night.

Black Rock wrote:

Official Announcement

An Epic Challenge has been completed!

Oh

Also by the end of the night every player will have been recruited.

Bit late for that second one.

Rezzie rezz?

Black Rock wrote:Turns out I need several replacements and this game needs it to work properly. I have thought about it a lot and I am going to choose dead to replace. I have also chosen my dead wisely. None of them have a bone to pick and everyone will know their old roles. Thank you in advance for your understanding.

No chance for me then.

I don't understand what we're debating right now. A restart in my books is going through same phase a second time. I did the same thing I did on the first N9 (voted the position and sent my PM). I suspect Night actions will take place as usual at the end of this second N9, although the idea if double targetting is in effect after the first N9 is an interesting thought.

Bass 2.0 is staying consistent with posting and voting only during the Night.

Roxy: What exactly did you change?

Scotty wrote:
As far as Rico is concerned, I've been cautiously optimistic, but his rez is a definite cause for concern, because why else would he be rezz'd unless he was on someone's team? And someone like Rico, who has fooled me once *QUITE HANDILY MIGHT I ADD* in Watchmen, I would be naive to assume he would be in the civ camp. So he's got my big fat going into Day tomorrow (should I be alive)

Quite the change of heart there from

Scotty wrote:In RE: Rico rezzing, I think it is supes suspicious, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Elder Shaman was recruited. Whether or not that role is civ or bad is yet to be determined. I don't notice a shift in what Rico is saying now in relation to before he died. He actually reads genuine to me, which has me scratching my head if he really is unrecruited what the rezzer had in mind.

to big fat eyeballing.

Again, if anyone feels there's no way a rezz could have happened in lack of any affiliation between the rezzer and the rezz'd, you and aapje and anyone else reading it that will have a big surprise at the end of all this (whether I'm lynched or at endgame). On the bright side, you'll have this result as future reference that not all meta is one-dimensional.

I don't have what to defend when people rely on such empirical meta or rhetorical questions. I've said all I know about my rezz and status and I am truthful about it. Not trusting that is fine and natural for the gameplay. But from there on, players should use the proper tools to determine that I'm lying or that I'm bad. Determine if I've been recruited before the rezz. Determine the Shaman is bad-aligned. Determine if I've been recruited by the baddies.

As for the fooling, yes, I am aware that my meta will probably come to bite me back and compromise at least a few of my games purely because players will bring the "wait a minute. what if Rico is fooling us again" argument as soon as I'll keep progressing deep into a game and have little suspicion on me (which frankly isn't exactly the case here; I've had LoRab drumming on me for six Days now and aapje for roughly two; I wasn't sussed in Watchmen at all, except for "what ifs"). You want to test that and ruin my current game, because of retribution? Can't stop you there, but that'll be the outcome this time around.

I've been handed out more mafia/indy roles than civ so far and I've only won as mafia/indy thus far, so yeah, sucky legacy whenever I have to play civ for realz, what can I say. But that's just reality, there's nothing I can do about that. The thing is, the "civviest" I've been under a facade is also the "civviest" I can be, period. I can't play "civvier" than that. I can't push myself beyond this much baddie hunting and reading.

As for right now, I'll say it again, my status is that of an unrecruited, which means I have to survive the game, but I don't need to fool any side for any purpose. My mindset is that I desire to be recruited by the civs, to shed a survivor win con which I'm not optimistic one bit I'll achieve, and in that I'm baddie hunting. I believe I've proven the latter, even though I've had a huge failure recently. Team Azura killed me and I've been attacking Uzbekistan head on. How can that inspire any real belief that I'm involved with either?

The only restart I ever witnessed happened after a Day concluded and results were shown - a mislynch - hence restarting the Day to correct that, but I'm not sure if Black Con would accept a Night restart after the conclusion (with results) of a Night phase. I've never seen a Night restart before, though.

I'm sorry if DH feels the genuine need to eject, but he's been bantering most of the game and I'm treating this stuff as banter just as well. Part of me also reads him claiming to be unkillable, but that doesn't add up considering the events and mechanics we know about.

[quote="Ricochet"]MM is still fixating on Position 5. [/quote]

Carry on, then.

aapje wrote:Went over the thread since last night sober this time :P

Ricochet wrote:

Spoiler: show

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:I'm surprised nobody has called out Rico yet after the Synonym lynch. Did Synonym lie about missing all of his PMs or did Rico lie about missing his?
So Rico, what do you think has happened?

I haven't lied about missing my PM N5, Synonym could have still been wrong about missing his.

So what's there to be called for? You were the one who pushed this angle on suspecting Syn.

Also, I don't recall the Hosts confirming or clarifying things past this post of yours.

Well in that case let me refresh your memory:

Black Rock wrote:

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Well I doubt he originally wrote one missing pm when he was missing several.

@Hosts:
How many missing PM's on night 5? (and maybe the other nights as well while you are at it :P )

Also Rico you are 100% sure you didn't send in a PM while you had a power that night?

DharmaHelper wrote:This seems like a shit reason to suspect someone.

Eh, I think it looks like it could be a classic slip up. That being said if the hosts don't come back in time I will probably look at someone else for today.

I thought that was listed at the bottom of the night post

Ricochet wrote:

aapje wrote:

Boomslang wrote:I hate to say this after being quiet (mostly) by choice for the last few days, but I'm headed out of town to Riot Fest in Chicago for the weekend and will certainly not be able to keep up with the thread. But I Looked over Rico's reads, and I'm startled by how good they seem to be. Will be checking in to vote BWT until the dude is dead.

This post set of some major alarm bells for me.

Not sure how I feel about BWT but I don't exactly trust Rico
In face I'll place my vote there.

Boomslang pings you like hell, but you vote me. Yup.

Also, are you still suspecting me for an event that in your mind looks suspicious, for reasons you know better, as well as for a response of mine to that event that did not live up to your standards...for reasons you know better? Yeah, still don't know what I'm supposed to argue/defend here.

Your reaction to your rez didn't add up for me and now it certainly looks like you could have set up Synonym to be lynched. Is this supposed to make me feel you are a civvie? Because it certainly doesn't look like you are. I'm comfortable with my vote for you

Ah. Indeed I seemed to have missed that.

Allow me to clarify though. While that indeed confirms your posts (and your question about how many PMs were missed N5), in a previous post to that (that is actually quoted in that post of yours) I asked for clarification on something slightly different:

Ricochet wrote:Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Even you weren't sure about that, but then you asked the Hosts a different question:

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Ah, so LC's first Host Post was edited after he rain-checked on how many PMs are missing? I'd need a confirmation of that.

Well I doubt he originally wrote one missing pm when he was missing several.

@Hosts:
How many missing PM's on night 5? (and maybe the other nights as well while you are at it :P )

Now you're holding me responsible for missing out a confirmation on a matter that is not mine, but yours? Com'on. My question wasn't confirmed.

I don't really how that is relevant since the hosts confirmed that there was in fact only 1 missing PM.

Well then it's my PM. I didn't lie about it and Syn could have still been untruthful about it. Again, he was also very broad in his claim, so maybe didn't have in mind that N4-N5s could contradict his claim. You seem to be forcing the equation that since he flipped civ, everything he claimed must mean it was true.

Start a new line of questioning regarding my claim that I missed a PM on N5, if you feel like it. Then frame the next player as well, when I come clean if lynched.

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Again, I can't defend against an accusation based on your perception of things, that you hold on to. Carry on suspecting me, then. I'm still unrecruited, so should I get lynched or killed during this phase, I will have proven to you how rezz's don't always mean what you have in mind and nor do simple explanations of it ("I was rezzed. I don't know why the rezzer chose me. I'm still unrecruited") don't mean or hide something other than that.

I know sometimes people don't get rezzed for logical reasons. When did I use the word always? Usually people use rezzes for a reason though do though.

You hold on to empirical evidence that my rezz can mean something more than just that. You obviously don't or won't believe it can be possible that my rezz is just that, hence what I said about proving to you how wrong you are in your disbelief, either by getting lynched or at endgame, when everything will be clarified. I'd prefer not to be lynched.

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I think I might pull the suspicions and votes on Synonym, so I can show you that the "missing PM" angle pretty much belonged to you, you only and you insisted upon, quite a lot in fact. Or better yet, maybe you'd be so kind as to point out how people voted Syn for the "PM angle", so that you can claim I set him up by addressing on that angle.

I didn't go with that. Furthermore, DH called it lazy suss'ing, after which you suddenly backed away from it, despite still believing it might have been a slip. So if nobody really voted Syn for his PM claim (aka your case), how can you claim I set him up to by lynched for that? I didn't set up Syn with anything, I suspected him for a lot of things, maybe apart from his last to final post, but the PM angle was not something I used, it's something you brought up and insisted upon.

Where have I said I'm a civvie? I never claimed that. I'm unrecruited. Are you after lynching unrecruits, just because they don't fit your 'civvie' category? Wouldn't you rather lynch recruited baddies?

I backed off because the hosts hadn't yet confirmed that there was only 1 missing pm. If I had been online after they had confirmed it my vote would have stayed on Synonym.

And it doesn't really matter to me whether people followed my line of inquiry or not. As a player I looks for inconsistencies, for stuff that doesn't add up. A lot of the times baddies can be found where stuff doesn't add up. And this PM business (quite literally) doesn't add up.

You said I'm bad because I set Synonym up via the PM business. That would mean people followed me in lynching Synonym and in giving credit to the PM business. But they didn't and it wasn't my line of inquiry, it was yours.

Yes, you looked into Syn's PM business not adding up and thought a baddie can be found there; it wasn't found. Now you're trying to say the PM business doesn't add up about me and that a baddie can be found here. But what doesn't add up about me? Prove that Syn was truthful that he missed the N5 PM and that I lied.

aapje wrote:

Ricochet wrote:aapje, for a in-depth tactician and game debater, seems to have run out of bullets in pursuing me. I asked him to prove that I influenced anyone to lynch Syn for the PM angle (an angle only he brought up, furthermore) or that anyone voted Syn for that angle (not even he did) and he just came back with blank verdicts. His rezz angle on me suddenly doesn't even matter anymore, lol. Must have been after DH pointed out he did such bullsuit angles in the past as well. Can anyone else who played past Recruitements confirm that aapje was bad and used a rezzcruiting angle to dig a player's grave?

Anyway, given all this, I'm considering calling dingo on appje's endeavour. He thinks he's a soldier dog who found the heroin stash but nah, he's dead wrong and every angle of his will be proven dead wrong if I get lynched. But I'm starting to feel he might be a dingo, instead, putting the baby in my lap.

Wow this is quite the post. After you asked me that I've made one drunken post and then you call me out for not giving you a point by point reply? You seem to have unreasonably high standards for inebriated (not abbreviated, I've learned my lesson) posts. That post was a response to you and DH talking about rez-recruits which was never my main point. Which I so eloquently reiterated last night.

Dude, you came in the thread and called me "straight up bad", discarded your earlier "rezz" suspicion altogether, called me "full of shit" and asked people to follow you in voting me. I'm sorry if it was all drunk talk, but we're still playing a game. You came hard like that on me, I'll come back just as hard.

What part of that, other than the "no rez recruit involved at all" part, was a simple "response to me and DH talking about rez-recruits"? I didn't pick on your inebriation at all, I picked on your hard claims. If you would have come with a post in any way lighter than that (say "rico's mcbaddie mcbaddison"), I wouldn't have set "unreasonably high standards". You set the standard yourself with you hard claims.

Not to mention that right now, you're still not providing any proof of your claim that I set up Syn's lynch. I can wait, no problem.

aapje wrote: The fact that you were rezzed still very much matters. I think you were recruited before you were rezzed. I think you were rezzed because you were already recruited. Rezz-recruits was never the main point and I've stated that before as well.

No sir. You never once suspected me of being recruited (or bad), before I returned to the game. You spinned the rezz factor to start suspecting me, weaving in stuff like "why would anyone bring him back if he's not part of their team", "rezzcruiting could have happened" and "his reaction to his rezz is fishy" in your case-making.

Also I asked people to confirm that you used the "rezzrecruiting" angle in your previous game, I didn't imply "rezzrecruiting" was the only angle you used on me. I admit the "rezzrecruiting" part took more shape during the talks with DH, but I still was referencing that when I asked the question.

DharmaHelper wrote:For reals tho, NK me.

Which one of the four with kills are you addressing? :P

I don't get his fascination with a single position, consequences or no consequences.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:MM is still fixating on Position 5.

You've stated that you will take responsibility for your vote, but you won't accept mild consequences.

Huh?

MM is still fixating on Position 5.

nutella wrote:I still take some responsibility for my vote, and I never said I didn't think your case was worth following. The problem was that it was. I partially blame you because I might never have thought to consider BWT had you not brought him up with such a compelling case. Once you did, along with what in my opinion looked like implications that you were certain (stating "BWT is Ubzargan" as if it were fact), I believed you, and decided to vote for who I thought would be a baddie. Sure, I "wagoned" in the sense that I latched onto someone else's case and became a proponent of it. I do that in pretty much every game I play. I did not "wagon" in the traditional sense, as my vote was the first. I don't deny that I voted with my own conviction. I'm just pointing out that I only had that conviction in the first place because of the way you painted your case.

Understood. Yes, for the case of BWT being bad becoming a topic and being brought to everyone's attention, I take full responsibility. But the pushing doesn't go past beyond the case-making I did.

"stating "BWT is Ubzargan" as if it were fact"

Ricochet wrote:I think BWT is Uzbekistan.

No fact stating, no certainty implying.

As for you voting with "your own conviction", I've pointed out already that I don't find much of that in your quotes.

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Voting 2.