The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:The Day 0 poll determined the peek Kevin got.

Dammit.

Well, if there's one thing I wrote down as a possible signal and it turned out to be true, it was Llama voting himself in that poll (Mom).

Scotty wrote: I've never seen the Notebook, and I hope I never have to.

My criterias eligibility are pretty simple:

1) Don't kill me off early. Not saying I'm less deserving of NKs than others or anything, but I personally get very indisposed when that happens - for instance, my spreadsheet folders for games like Omerta or Guess Who are completely empty, because I quit analysing and erased everything after being off'd on D1. Besides, I've proven myself time and again I'm not good at all at reads (early on/80% of the time), so there's no reason to be discarded as a threat.

2) Don't mislynch me with 200% tunnelling, to the point I get sick and tired of defending myself or feel like circling around against your arguments.

3) Don't be called llama and nightkill me. Ever.

Scotty wrote:And Rico, we didn't realllly want you to go, because you were practically our cheerleader early on when Draco and LC started coming down from the attic, so to speak.

But knowing you, you could figure it out eventually and turn it right around against us. Your death really was a decision based on how active you were and how your reads could lead everyone astray. Really, your downfall is that you are a good player.

Definitely not according to this game. And my reads were in the wrong direction, so you had all the weapons to take advantage. Civs leading civs astray is the definition of baddie win.

Also, I'd like to ask Epig again if a red D0 peek was ever a possibility for the Cop in this game. That shrug, the first time I asked, didn't really lead to anything good, tbh. Once again, apologies to MM for pursuing that.

I didn't say it was insincere. I said it looked more charactetistic of baddie you. You hated being called out for silly reasons in Syndicate Mafia as well (ironically, playing as LC2).

Lame.

Congrats you two, but whoever killed me, welcome to my Death Notebook. My elimination served your purpose well, but there will be consequences the next time I am villain, SK or vigi.

From the sidelines - Eloh turning defensive the past cycles sealed it for me that she is up to no good. As for Scotty, him gradually imposing himself as the top ISO'er, susser and such started giving me second thoughts, but other than that, I didn't get anything on him.

Playing this was a complete mistake, from my viewpoint, given most of the civs' in-thread "performance", but what can you do - shoutout to Draco, otherwise, killer instincts there, even if it didn't work in my case and I had still suspected you more than others anyway, d'oh.

Shit personal gut/breadcrumb reads + mislynching (twice!) + half the field being inactive almost every Day + each daily top wagon hardly putting up a fight or even showing up until EoD = no good. LC, for instance, had better instincts regarding Scotty, but he left the probing cold, despite my inquiries.

Bye?

Scotty wrote:Yo @Elo, i wanna know who your lead running back is in suspicion today.
And @Rico, which scenario among the ones you listed sounds more plausible?

Firstly, gut tells me with close to full certainty the two bandits are spread among the D2 vote/non-vote camps.

Secondly, as far as the camps go, gut further tells me, but with much less certainty, one bandit could be AWOL in the thread and the other is located either on the safe side of voting (i.e. not mislynching civilians) or in the eye of the storm. For me the camps are just too mixed and individually numerous (3/4 debateably low-posters overall or 3 MM voters or 3 non-MM voters).

Of the MM voters, I slightly suspect Draco. Sorry, Draco, but what you said now doesn't show up in the chronology of your posts like that. MM specifically asked you to reconsider, you said you would be looking at other options, and then you left it dead. If Elohcin and/or LC are bad, so far they're playing me - well, maybe LC would still have a slight edge as a possible trickster, with all his strategy talk, but it's nothing major.

Draco, you expected a better Day phase from Enrique and he instead missed out on it. Tell me what you think of him now, as a result of this.

Of the Enrique voters, I'd say 60-40 between Llama and you being bad, but only for what I said about Llama being likely to tell us in our face that we're doing a bad thing lynching a player he'd be aware, as bandit, that he'll flip civilian - cred gain. You are not giving me bad vibes so far, so please don't be bad.

I talked about sprityo already, that's pretty much how I feel about his vote post.

Between DFaraday and Enrique, I think both made legit missteps (DF voting, Enrique light wagoning on D1). If either of them are civilian and can't really play, I'd expect perhaps to ask for replacement - but I suppose there is such a thing as uncooperative civilians.

Damn. Sorry, MM.

Long Con wrote:Sorry, Marsh! Ok, Scotty and Llama are my top suspects now. Baddies knew Metalmarsh was going to flip Civ, and avoided voting him. Llama already said he's going after Metalmarsh voters if he flipped Civ.

Unfortunately, I feel it could be anyone; the bandits may have even gone different ways. Eloh, you and I were pretty determined to test the red peek. Draco said he'd consider other options just as much, but then I don't even recall him coming back till EoD. As you say, Scotty and llama could have easily distanced: Scotty locked on Enrique pretty quick; Llama could have cooked for us the "I told you so" speech, but right now I'm not feeling it entirely. Sprityo's take on MM was kinda lax and he "took interest" in voting Scotty for unstated reasons. Then there's DFaraday and Enrique, who missed the Day completely.

The way we've been playing, the bandits could have hidden on either of these three paths.

I'm going to bed. Sticking with MM for toDay.

Maybe he doesn't want to spend Christmas with his family anymore.

The red peek, primarily.

thellama73 wrote:Draconus, I don't know you. What's your deal?

lol

thellama73 wrote:
I don't think baddie MM would come out gunning for me on Day 1 with no provocation. It's not his style. He would be more subtle.

That is hardly the main issue concerning MM (although, for me personally, his loose D1 vote is indeed a partial issue as well).

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:MM is my friend but we must duel to the death, so him

PULL

DrWilgy wrote:Lol, why did I ping? I am MM's friend this is true, but we must fight to the death for the greater good. Only one shall be left standing!

DrWilgy wrote:There can be only one.

Yeah, he was the cop. But does this look like the attitude of a cop who knows they've nabbed a baddie?

No, I'm pretty sure that he was trying to protect himself from getting nightkilled by offering a false statement, and nothing else. Not once did DrWilgy state that I was mafia or scum or even a hoo ha. Note that "We must fight to the death for the greater good", not "You must die for the greater good" or something of the sort. The word selection is key here.

I see a bit of contradiction here. Wilgy made false statements to protect himself, but wasn't direct enough in his statements towards lynching you for the peek to be genuine. How would he have protected himself by going all out bark on you, wording and all? I think the insinuations in his statements were clear enough: only one [baddie] shall be left standing if we lynch you.

I wouldn't pursue this as much, really, if the red peek option would be completely unlikely or not implemented - the way MP's Pet Sounds was. Also, I have to reconsider now if I want my games to be red-peek-free or not, I thought red-peek-free was a rule of thumb or something - in theory, I find red peeks good for the claim game, but not in favour of the mafia team's startup odds, balance-wise.

This being said, so far there's little opposition to your lynch being tested, except from llama, I guess...? If you're bad, I imagine a two-team mafia bus on D2 would risk everything for the team.

Yay @ no death! Good doctor is good, if that was the case.

The pool is way too large right now for an absent Mafia duo theory to hold (or, at least, be the main thing to pursue). Maybe if we catch one of the bandits and then the no activity indication reoccurs, with just one bandit out there. But as of now, you've got, in theory, DFaraday (inactive), sprityo (inactive, connectivity issues), Draconus (sporadic), Llama (infrequent) and Enrique (infrequent). That's half the current field.

What Scotty said is also true, it would take just one of the two bandits to send in a kill and it would also take just one log and PM during the Night phase to accomplish that (unless the bandits held off until the EoN and dun goof'd by not managing to be around).

With the field of inactives / low-posters being this big, I think, just like LC, that the mafia deliberately abstaining from a kill is a decent possibility.

Right now, I'm willing to vote Metalmarsh for two reasons:

one, to test if Wilgy red peek'd him (in fact, if a red D0 peek was even possible); now that he flipped cop, his sturdy vote posts seem indicative on fixating with good reason on MM and pointing out that, should MM flip bad, there will be "one" bandit left; even if that's not the case (his peek being true, I mean), Wilgy had a crazy sixth sense detecting Diiny as scum from the get go in Tree Mafia.

two, MM added some logic to his Llama re-vote today, unfortunately he did not offer any such logic yesterDay. Furthermore, he acted really laid-back from playing throughout D1 - I've seen him active on the forum many times, for that matter - instead of contributing (at least slightly) more to the discussions, so that we all might have perhaps reached a different outcome.

A peek is a role check. I have not encountered it having any other meaning - like intercepting something. Green means civvie, red means baddie.

Scotty wrote:

Enrique wrote:I was originally gonna make a post to explain why I was gonna vote Long Con, but the more I went into it, the more I realized what he's actually saying. I don't think he's withholding any info that the rest of us aren't (which is to say, our roles). Llama laid the bait and it looked like LC was ready to take it to prey on Scotty, but what if he just knew he was fake-claiming?

Right now that's good enough for me. Scotty.

Well I know for certain that Rico was fake-claiming. Is that a cause for a vote? I don't honestly see a good reason right now to claim anything for real. But I'm glad you hopped on my train early on. What are you thinking about now, @Enrique?

I fake-claimed to smokescreen, but ended up killing the real cop, so nevermind me, I'm in spaghetti spill mode right now.

I'm still not sure if a baddie would nose-dive into LC's (or Llama's?) bait wave (if it even was that, I mean) like that, but I'll keep an eye on Enrique's train of thoughts going into Day 2.

Scotty wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Host: Does the Cop receive a random D0 peek? Also, can he receive a D0 peek of any kind or only a civilian one?

4) Kevin will peek before Day 1 begins. On ensuing night periods, the cop may select another player to role-check.

To me, this is effectively: 4) Kevin will gdfhk before Day 1 begins. On ensuing night periods, the cop may select another player to role-check.

lol in a previous game I played on Mafia Universe, the locals there use "peek" ad infinitum to describe role-checking.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe peeking at BTSC between the bandits? Because after all, he does so in the movie before they even arrive.

BTSC interception is not in the roles, though.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Host: Does the Cop receive a random D0 peek? Also, can he receive a D0 peek of any kind or only a civilian one?

4) Kevin will peek before Day 1 begins. On ensuing night periods, the cop may select another player to role-check.

To me, this is effectively: 4) Kevin will gdfhk before Day 1 begins. On ensuing night periods, the cop may select another player to role-check.

Will what now?

I was more interested if it's possible for the cop to attain a red peek from the get go. Ironically, this was a subject in the Tree Mafia game as well, where Wilgy (without being the cop) claimed he red peeked a player. I don't think MM - as the Host - ever clarified if red peeks were possible in his game.

...ok. I guess that makes the issue of Wilgy having peeked MM and having gotten a red on him open for debate.

Host: Does the Cop receive a random D0 peek? Also, can he receive a D0 peek of any kind or only a civilian one?

Crap.

The Syndicate cop curse lives on. And I put my vote on it.

Llama missed the vote, spirtyo and Draco missed the Day.

I suppose Wilgy will, although that will reinforce the idea that he had nothing serious in mind with voting MM.

6 players with one vote, 5 players with no votes and 5 yet to vote. One-way mega tie, anyone?

linki: nvmd

Also, llama showed no concern with MM voting him out of the blue, hmm...

I can't say I support a lynch on you, Scotty, given the things brought up, especially Enrique's confusing take on it and reasoning that you fakeclaiming Buzz in lieu of the real Buzz (if that's case) is automatically a baddie sign (are you bad, though? ); meanwhile, I'm hardly convinced LC is acting with any actual input on you, either, but I can't put my finger is he's playing a trick with it and am leaning to see how he develops whatever he's aiming for during the next Day.

I could help with a Wilgy vote, for his vote waltzing earlier today, though it would only tie you, so far.

Yeah, 20 minutes to go, this is pretty ridiculous.

Scotty wrote:@Rico
Who are you thinking of voting? Because unless the low posters show up soon, I will probably be voting to save myself.

Well, I said I wouldn't stay up late, but who am I kidding, lol. Having a hard time interpreting your voters, because it's hard to understand either of them's actions as a risk taken as baddies. Between LC and Enrique I could see LC being the tricksterer and I agree Enrique gives the slight sense of surfing (plus, as I've told him, I don't really get the throwback to Tree Mafia he's pointing at). There's more substantial claims to consider beneath LC's wording, but again, he could also ably handle a bluff with it.

A second route for me would be to sanction perhaps Wilgy or MM, who seem to have fully taken the zany-vote-and-not-much-else direction. Wilgy even insisted on bringing no real clarification to it, although wigglier Wilgy hasn't revealed baddie Wilgy many times.

Thing is, if it is a "Putting my vote out there so I can see the poll", I'm not much of a fan of those.

Scotty wrote: I still don't like Wilgy's vote for MM, and I especially don't like LC's vote for me.

What about MM's vote for Llama or DF's self-vote?

I don't recall the details that got you lynched in Tree Mafia, but I remember Wilgy faking that he had a red peek on someone. How is that the same thing as Scotty fake-hinting to be Buzz? How is Scotty now in the same position that you were in Tree Mafia?

Also, your D0 reaction was a mere "Hmm", before LC posted anything Scotty-related. What was that about back then?

Enrique wrote:I was originally gonna make a post to explain why I was gonna vote Long Con, but the more I went into it, the more I realized what he's actually saying. I don't think he's withholding any info that the rest of us aren't (which is to say, our roles). Llama laid the bait and it looked like LC was ready to take it to prey on Scotty, but what if he just knew he was fake-claiming?

Right now that's good enough for me. Scotty.

I believe there can be more depth to heist plays than "fake claiming = baddie (because I know so)".

That's quite fine, since the goal for now is catching the bandits. Reuniting with my family can wait until after that.

Reasoning is an evaluation tool for me. If reasoning lacks, I have motive to suspect the player, yes. Imagine if Scotty gets lynched and comes out green. How will that make you look, then? How can anything except Scotty flipping bandit make your vote intent look spot on and inspired? Furthermore, if you are serious in your voting intent, why would you not want to share the reason with others?

As for more information needed before drawing any conclusion, I feel I have not much else to operate with so far. This phase has been incredibly laid-back, with less than four hours till EoD and all four votes cast so far being either pokey, non-descript, "for reasons kept close the chest" or a self-vote. Where the "more information" part in that?

Long Con wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Why are you generalizing? Yes, at first I asked for some thought process or tactic behind your vote, but you dispelled that angle. Right now, the problem lies in the fact that you voted and you are openly keeping the reasoning to yourself, as shown in that quote. Reasoning your vote sounds likely play mafia playing to me.

Sounds to me like you are inventing a problem to give yourself an excuse to vote someone on Day 1. Can you possibly give me the last sentence in your quote here again? I think there was some error and I'm not 100% sure I understand the meaning of it. I think you are saying that voting for Scotty because I find his Buzz claim suspicious makes me Mafia, but that sentence is just a little jinky.

Very well, let's rewind and go over again through your posts, because I'm not inventing any situation other than what said posts have generated.

1) Lighthearted response to llama probing Scotty's rolehint.

2) You return to Scotty's comment, this time seemly focusing on the rolehint. You vote Scotty either for the rolehint or for "checking" if votes are changeable, at least from what you state in the voting post.

This prompts me to ask you if have any reasons to suspect Scotty's rolehint as foul or are merely fishing for reactions.

3) This reply is then of main importance. You deny that you voted Scotty for fishing tactics. As far as actual reasons for voting Scotty, you say the reasons are "your own for now". You also noted him your top suspect for slightly-greater-than-zero-informations.

I stated my slight issues with post #3. On one hand, if your "informations" stem from the roles, I don't see how you could have informations incriminating Scotty as a "top suspect". On the other hand, I believe this 24-hour format is tight enough as to not pend that much on "reasons for voting that are you own". I'd understand keeping the reasons to yourself, as to await a reaction from your top suspect, namely Scotty, however you have previously denied such tactics. Why keep the reasons for voting someone to yourself, then?

4) You take my slight issues and make a broader statement of revealing your thought process, strategy for winning and assumption-making not being your MO.

However, that was not the issue. The issue was your vote for Scotty that you left for "reasons that are you own for now".

Going back to my statement that you find unclear, players offering reasons for their vote is, for me, an integral part of Mafia and often the factor that influences me to read the players. In the case of offering no reasoning, it influences me to suspect any such player.

At the time of this post, your reason for voting Scotty stands free of any tactics (such as fishing for reactions, which you have denied) and is unclear, because you stated that the reason "is your own".

Why are you generalizing? Yes, at first I asked for some thought process or tactic behind your vote, but you dispelled that angle. Right now, the problem lies in the fact that you voted and you are openly keeping the reasoning to yourself, as shown in that quote. Reasoning your vote sounds likely play mafia playing to me.

Long Con wrote:I'm not withholding any information.

Long Con wrote: my reasons for voting Scotty are my own for now

I'm not staying up until 4am - I may be home alone, but that doesn't mean I don't have a proper bedtime anymore. - and I'm slightly dispirited by what I have to work with so far. Right now I'd place LC as slight pingey and DFaraday's vote and Enrique's cryptic very low-activity as a ping.

Oh look, DFaraday chanelled his inner marmot and self-voted.

Long Con wrote:I have basically the same answer, my reasons for voting Scotty are my own for now. I will say that I'm not voting him for some fishing ploy. He's my slightly-greater-than-zero-information top suspect.

There's nothing in the roles supporting your "slightly-greater-than-zero-information" claim. Also, we're running on a tight Day phase, so why hold your voting reasons for yourself?

Intrigued.

thellama73 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Scotty wrote:God I hate Kevin. I wish I could feed him to my tarantula

So you are saying you're Buzz. Interesting. Let's see if the votes are truly moveable. Scotty

Same question as to llama. Any reason to suspect Scotty for foul claiming?

It's way too early for me to say I really suspect Scotty. I was just testing his response.

...

Scotty wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Scotty wrote:God I hate Kevin. I wish I could feed him to my tarantula

So you are saying you're Buzz. Interesting. Let's see if the votes are truly moveable. Scotty

Even if I were implying as such, why vote Buzz? He's still part of the family. We really should be voting all the Kevin claimers. And there's a lot of them. What good has Kevin ever done for the family?

Say, I bet you want to find your tarantula in one piece, when you come back home, don't ya?

Scotty wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Scotty wrote:God I hate Kevin. I wish I could feed him to my tarantula

So you are saying you're Buzz. Interesting. Let's see if the votes are truly moveable. Scotty

Even if I were implying as such, why vote Buzz? He's still part of the family. We really should be voting all the Kevin claimers. And there's a lot of them. What good has Kevin ever done for the family?

Say, I bet you want to find your tarantula in one piece, when you come back home, don't ya?

Elohcin wrote:

Ricochet wrote:
---

Elohcin wrote:HI guys. Sorry I am just now checking in. I know I missed all of Day 0. But as you saw, our day has been super nutty.

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Hi everybody! Why does Scotty hate Kevin? Is he a baddie?

How you feel about your family is a complicated thing.

This is so true.

I don't have any pings yet, but Llama seems to be fishing hard with his nit-picking eyes. What do you all think?

I'd classify it as mellow on the Llama Loony Fishing Spectrum. Do you feel civvie llama would be zanier or more predictable with his first eyeballs?

I wouldn't call him mellow. I would expect more predictable with his first eyeballs. Kind-of seemed like he was waiting for someone to bite on one of his eyes and make a suspicion out of it. But I could be wrong.

Firstly, I didn't call llama "mellow", I called the hook he launched as such. Then, with the underlined sentence you are either literally defining how "fishing reactions" works or I am slightly confused by what you mean to point out.

As for my assessment, whilst "predictable eyeballer" is never a 100% sign of llama civvieness, I've seen it more coming from a civ llama. In fact, the only time he was bad, in a game I also played, his opening antics were pure bullsuit. No reason, thus far, to suspect him of this.

Epignosis wrote:It is now Day 1.



This is what my day has been like.

I'm not having a better day myself, either. My family still hasn't returned. I mean, there's a phone in the house, so mom, dad or Draconus could try to reach me, but I guess they're not because plot device.

---

gender check on sprityo, please. also, please bear with me, I might frequently type your name as spirityo, until I get accustomed

---

Elohcin wrote:HI guys. Sorry I am just now checking in. I know I missed all of Day 0. But as you saw, our day has been super nutty.

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Hi everybody! Why does Scotty hate Kevin? Is he a baddie?

How you feel about your family is a complicated thing.

This is so true.

I don't have any pings yet, but Llama seems to be fishing hard with his nit-picking eyes. What do you all think?

I'd classify it as mellow on the Llama Loony Fishing Spectrum. Do you feel civvie llama would be zanier or more predictable with his first eyeballs?

---

I see we have some early shooters, already.

Long Con wrote:

Scotty wrote:God I hate Kevin. I wish I could feed him to my tarantula

So you are saying you're Buzz. Interesting. Let's see if the votes are truly moveable. Scotty

Same question as to llama. Any reason to suspect Scotty for foul claiming?

DrWilgy wrote:MM is my friend but we must duel to the death, so him

PULL

Why?

---

I don't have any real pings right now, but I'd like to hear more from the most enigmatic poster so far.

Enrique wrote:Hmm.

thellama73 wrote:Hi everybody! Why does Scotty hate Kevin? Is he a baddie?

Llama, did you take Scotty's comment ad litteram or is there any reason you suspect him to have faked a hint as a baddie?