The Syndicate

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:45 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:31 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:25 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:05 pm Golden and Sloonei

This is a pairing of players that I think go hand in hand. Not because I think they’re on the same team but because I don’t think they’re w/w.

Golden is someone that has expressed keen interest in pinning down Sloonei’s role. Golden has like 6 people’s roles “in mind” which is just dandy for him. I also have roles in mind for people, but the weird part to me is that when pressed on it, Golden zips up his mouth and becomes slightly indignant talking about it, suggesting mafia will get whiffs of his grand role matching and use it against the town. He compounds this attitude with unabashedly- and unprompted- also inserting throughout the game “I have a role in mind for {x} player” which is like that acquaintance on Facebook that casually makes their status “I can’t believe this happened to me today!” allowing concerned comments to pile up for a few days, and never resolving it. What happened to you, Chelsea?! WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO MY PSYCHE.

I’m glad that Golden has roles in mind for people, and that may very well help his own game. But at some point as we start whittling down players, communitizing role guesses becomes less about “not giving mafia the benefit of information” and more about “helping the town as a whole identify and make better choices so we don’t lose the game.”

There’s a certain gate keeping of “the old ways” that I willingly want to respect, but I’m also not one to throw away the key to unlocking the game because “that’s not the way we do things here”. In this game, confidence in reads and how you flaunt that confidence dictates a lot of reads for other people.

All of this leads to my hesitance and blatant confusion when it comes to my read of Sloonei. It’s Golden and Golden specifically that has kept me from hard townreading Sloonei, and it’s because of his vague confidence that Sloonei isn’t the one that switched the first elimination to Vivax1.0. I can’t pry out what Golden really thinks Sloonei is, and we can’t info dump in this game (That’s fine, wouldn’t ask it if anyone had info) but it could be heavily inferred that Sloonei and Quin were masons. It made sense with the blatant shielding going on early. But Sloonei- after a couple days of hard town reading Quin- walked back his Townread to a more questionable read of him on day 3. This seemed to fracture Golden’s crystal ball for a second, but it seemed in-thread that it was a brief stay of confusion before he just shrugged it off and maybe conf biased himself that it was just a blip and everything is still fine and dandy. This confused the shit out of me. Because that didn’t seem like an attitude of a player with a Mason in Quin. So if he isn’t a Mason, and isn’t the elim switcher…I got nothing to explain Sloonei’s behavior this game.

On Night 2, Sloonei showed some flashes of old civ Sloonei, with deep dives into ISOs and interactions with DrWilgy and then a pretty thorough casing on GMan, which was welcomed! But before that? Wet towel. Even now, after bea’s untimely demise, his comment of “I wish this person rezzed can just take my place”. I don’t get it. It’s like he has not spark or drive this game. It’s really bugging me out.

But here’s what I think:

I think Sloonei is town. And that is because I think Golden is intentionally or unintentionally misleading or at least has convinced himself that the puzzle piece that he holds still fits, even though he’s trying to trade 3 sheep for 2 wood in a game of Monopoly.

Hey Scotty

I already told you. It’s called infodumping man and it’s not on.

You trust me and listen to me, or you don’t. But it’s not about ‘not helping wolves’. It’s about playing role madness old school, and solving the game with a spreadsheet.

Not sharing vomps tildes was about not telling wolves but… that’s because vomps was a vanilla civ and I wanted them to be worried about the power.

I’m not asking to infodump. Infodumping implies you have info. Guess dumping isn’t a phrase, but if it were, it would be allowed.

I’m guessing Sloonei is one thing. You are guessing he is another. Both can be expressed.

“You trust me and listen to me, or you don’t. But it’s not about ‘not helping wolves’. It’s about playing role madness old school, and solving the game with a spreadsheet.”

You’re a brick wall. And the bricker you are, the less I wall want to trust you.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:33 pm I feel like one of those one man bands today. Sorry I'm making all these posts, I'll try to put stuff into one post instead. Linki glad to see more posting!

@Scotty , that's not how I remember it. This was my first post,

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:55 pm OK, glad to be here! I have been following the game, and have some pretty defined opinions. I work M-F 8-5, and am very unlikely to be able to post during those times, just an FYI.

First to clear up a few things. DH and i have played together for YEARS, as teammates, as adversaries, we played D&D together for a while. One thing I know about DH, when DH is bad, he takes his frustration to the chat. He's calm, he spends much more time playing nice when he's bad. I'm watching this classic thread derail (and again, this is something I know about, have derailed more than one thread with him and others) yelling at my monitor, "HE'S A CIV". @Kate I'm talking to you, I think that was a civ/civ situation. Classic.

And I have his role card now, and can guarantee you he was a civ. @DharmaHelper thanks for what you said in the Zero poll

OK, I am NOT a fan of naming civs, the baddies do get to NK people, but they also still have to lynch people. And if everyone thinks person X is civ, they can't lynch them, that cuts down their chances for opportunism. That said, in "Modern" (@Scotty )mafia, that apparently is not the case, so I will give general impressions of everyone. There are a few people I will not lynch, and I will work hard against a lynch wagon on any of them, should one form. And that's all I'm saying about that.

I left the dead on the list for my reasons. I will go between ped and sarc to make it easier to read. I have more firmly formed opinions on some than others.

Are the polls posted? I thought I saw them, but I'm not sure where they are. Can someone help a girl out? Also was there much voting without posting? I saw some discussion of it, but didn't really watch the poll while following.

THE AMAZING PLAYERS!
bea- Bea! Come out and play, I am not thrilled with the Bea I'm seeing. I know time is tight, but I am missing your insights. I could vote for her.
DFaraday- As always very quiet. I do know he is responsible when bad. If he's missing votes, not sure bad DF would do so. But it's been years, so I have to look at votes.
DharmaHelper-Such a civ it's a shame you all missed it.
DrWilgy-He's licking people? This seems like standard Wilgy chaos? I can never tell with him. What does his voting record look like?
Elohcin- I think she's likely civ, unless her game has changed tons (and iirc she said she doesn't play much?) I have nothing to question here.
fingersplints-I am curious about those saying Splints was most def civ, but saying Kate self targeted. What did Splints do that was so civvie? If the rez comes up, I'll be voting Llama as of now.
G-Man- I could vote here. I have seen both G men, bad and good, and he is a stellar civ, a self conscious baddie. Halloween weekend, he's a Dad. Give me more G, man. You're looking self conscious.
Golden-I am super conflicted here. He looks like civ Golden, he sounds like civ Golden, but his conclusions are very different than mine. So definite middle ground for me.
Kate- I KNOW Kate, and like DH, she would NEVER have that hissy thing in thread if she was bad. When she was OT'ed she was here like all the time. I would be amazed if she was bad
thellama73- I think he was a civ, and as of now, he has my rez vote should that be triggered.
Lorab- I am flummoxed that any pre-Syndicate old timey players suspected her. She always looks shady to those newer to her. Did Bea vote for her?
Michelle- I know i played with her once or so, I have zero impression of her here except "blendy". Those who know her, is this her norm? If not, I could vote here, too.
NotAnAxehole-I thought he was bad. I especially thought his suggestion of a firedrill was bad, but that could be my bias. I have to compare Vivax1 to Vivax2. Haven't done that yet.
Quin-TBH, quin/Scotty/Golden/Llama were all blending in for me a bit while I was following, I need to read him. I have no impression of him, and I should.
Scotty-I think he's probably a civ. I grossly misread him once, and the person I am seeing here is that person. Anyone have a recent Scotty bad game I could see?
sig- Blendy sig is blendy. Is this still the case? Not seeing anything overtly scary, I need opinions here.
Sloonei-I am not seeing the civ Sloonei I knew and feared, but he may have changed up his game? Could I see recent good/bads for him maybe?
Vivax- Like I said, I felt NAA was bad, but it was for mainly undefined reasons. Vivax seems more civ, but I need to do a read on him tbh

So where is everyone else at?

Kate wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:35 pm Has anyone completed a recount of yesterday's vote and compiled the order? I'm not sure that's worded right... If not, does anyone plan to? I think yesterday's lynch could give us some valuable info.

This ^^ I could use some poll help, and it's a good way to get discussion going.

I also had another post where I said, "I need more G, Man." But I can't find it. I voted Bea becasue I suspected her She is a close friend and I thought I could read her well, but I was wrong. Part of it is my own fault, you can't search my posts for "G-Man", since I usually write G Man without the little *-*. It was easier on my old phone, and I got in the habit.

@Golden I know it was aimed at Quin, not me. But what would the implication be of him ignoring me to focus on you? That we're teammates? That's how I read it. Thanks for the clarity, though.

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:59 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:58 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:56 pm @Vivax why were those three names (bea, eloh, golden) important to you?

I find them harder to get a read on and they're sitting in a pool with you.
Not including DFaraday and LoraB who just get nullbinned for D1.

Are you really nullbinning LoRab?

Nullbinning?

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:31 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:25 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:05 pm Golden and Sloonei

This is a pairing of players that I think go hand in hand. Not because I think they’re on the same team but because I don’t think they’re w/w.

Golden is someone that has expressed keen interest in pinning down Sloonei’s role. Golden has like 6 people’s roles “in mind” which is just dandy for him. I also have roles in mind for people, but the weird part to me is that when pressed on it, Golden zips up his mouth and becomes slightly indignant talking about it, suggesting mafia will get whiffs of his grand role matching and use it against the town. He compounds this attitude with unabashedly- and unprompted- also inserting throughout the game “I have a role in mind for {x} player” which is like that acquaintance on Facebook that casually makes their status “I can’t believe this happened to me today!” allowing concerned comments to pile up for a few days, and never resolving it. What happened to you, Chelsea?! WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO MY PSYCHE.

I’m glad that Golden has roles in mind for people, and that may very well help his own game. But at some point as we start whittling down players, communitizing role guesses becomes less about “not giving mafia the benefit of information” and more about “helping the town as a whole identify and make better choices so we don’t lose the game.”

There’s a certain gate keeping of “the old ways” that I willingly want to respect, but I’m also not one to throw away the key to unlocking the game because “that’s not the way we do things here”. In this game, confidence in reads and how you flaunt that confidence dictates a lot of reads for other people.

All of this leads to my hesitance and blatant confusion when it comes to my read of Sloonei. It’s Golden and Golden specifically that has kept me from hard townreading Sloonei, and it’s because of his vague confidence that Sloonei isn’t the one that switched the first elimination to Vivax1.0. I can’t pry out what Golden really thinks Sloonei is, and we can’t info dump in this game (That’s fine, wouldn’t ask it if anyone had info) but it could be heavily inferred that Sloonei and Quin were masons. It made sense with the blatant shielding going on early. But Sloonei- after a couple days of hard town reading Quin- walked back his Townread to a more questionable read of him on day 3. This seemed to fracture Golden’s crystal ball for a second, but it seemed in-thread that it was a brief stay of confusion before he just shrugged it off and maybe conf biased himself that it was just a blip and everything is still fine and dandy. This confused the shit out of me. Because that didn’t seem like an attitude of a player with a Mason in Quin. So if he isn’t a Mason, and isn’t the elim switcher…I got nothing to explain Sloonei’s behavior this game.

On Night 2, Sloonei showed some flashes of old civ Sloonei, with deep dives into ISOs and interactions with DrWilgy and then a pretty thorough casing on GMan, which was welcomed! But before that? Wet towel. Even now, after bea’s untimely demise, his comment of “I wish this person rezzed can just take my place”. I don’t get it. It’s like he has not spark or drive this game. It’s really bugging me out.

But here’s what I think:

I think Sloonei is town. And that is because I think Golden is intentionally or unintentionally misleading or at least has convinced himself that the puzzle piece that he holds still fits, even though he’s trying to trade 3 sheep for 2 wood in a game of Monopoly.

Hey Scotty

I already told you. It’s called infodumping man and it’s not on.

You trust me and listen to me, or you don’t. But it’s not about ‘not helping wolves’. It’s about playing role madness old school, and solving the game with a spreadsheet.

Not sharing vomps tildes was about not telling wolves but… that’s because vomps was a vanilla civ and I wanted them to be worried about the power.

I’m not asking to infodump. Infodumping implies you have info. Guess dumping isn’t a phrase, but if it were, it would be allowed.

I’m guessing Sloonei is one thing. You are guessing he is another. Both can be expressed.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:11 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:23 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:23 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:27 am I'm rereading the thread for bea, Scotty and Eloh all at the same time. Wawa word vomit time. Is it a grammatical error if the person's name is in itself, a grammatical error?

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:39 pm I voted bea because
A) she is extremely cheery
B) she is the first in the poll
C) I don’t know if it’s pronounced “bay” or “bee” or “bah-ee”
But mainly e) her first post was quoting another post, which is suspicious.

Boom! Roasted.

Why is opening with a quote suspicious?

It’s akin to the “coffee tell”, albeit infallible and full of holes. I don’t know the real reasoning behind the ‘tell’, but I believe the idea is that quoting someone else in your first post is a less organic entrance than if you were a town. I’ve been caught by others as mafia, which I thought was bullsuit being ‘caught’ with a *nothing* reason at the time. Now, sometimes I’ll do it as town just to see who bites.

Is bea the type to fall into the trap? I was mostly kidding, but then…what if i snagged the rat AND the cheese?
(I think bea looks fine now btw)

Oh boy, I didn’t go back and read but given this was quin’s response to scotty for his ‘opening with a quote post’ but he says axe’s vote has substance, that’s enough for me to vote [VOTE: Quin] aubergine

Did you continue to vote for Quin, or was this an on/off thing for you?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:56 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:53 am Next question, could Elo/G-Man be w/w (hat's a question for the morning though).

For a 'non-productive' day one, I feel like I'm getting close to having a legit read on everyone (other than the low posters).

"w/w" = wolf/wolf?

Linki @Vivax thank you!

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:05 pm Golden and Sloonei

This is a pairing of players that I think go hand in hand. Not because I think they’re on the same team but because I don’t think they’re w/w.

Golden is someone that has expressed keen interest in pinning down Sloonei’s role. Golden has like 6 people’s roles “in mind” which is just dandy for him. I also have roles in mind for people, but the weird part to me is that when pressed on it, Golden zips up his mouth and becomes slightly indignant talking about it, suggesting mafia will get whiffs of his grand role matching and use it against the town. He compounds this attitude with unabashedly- and unprompted- also inserting throughout the game “I have a role in mind for {x} player” which is like that acquaintance on Facebook that casually makes their status “I can’t believe this happened to me today!” allowing concerned comments to pile up for a few days, and never resolving it. What happened to you, Chelsea?! WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO MY PSYCHE.

I’m glad that Golden has roles in mind for people, and that may very well help his own game. But at some point as we start whittling down players, communitizing role guesses becomes less about “not giving mafia the benefit of information” and more about “helping the town as a whole identify and make better choices so we don’t lose the game.”

There’s a certain gate keeping of “the old ways” that I willingly want to respect, but I’m also not one to throw away the key to unlocking the game because “that’s not the way we do things here”. In this game, confidence in reads and how you flaunt that confidence dictates a lot of reads for other people.

All of this leads to my hesitance and blatant confusion when it comes to my read of Sloonei. It’s Golden and Golden specifically that has kept me from hard townreading Sloonei, and it’s because of his vague confidence that Sloonei isn’t the one that switched the first elimination to Vivax1.0. I can’t pry out what Golden really thinks Sloonei is, and we can’t info dump in this game (That’s fine, wouldn’t ask it if anyone had info) but it could be heavily inferred that Sloonei and Quin were masons. It made sense with the blatant shielding going on early. But Sloonei- after a couple days of hard town reading Quin- walked back his Townread to a more questionable read of him on day 3. This seemed to fracture Golden’s crystal ball for a second, but it seemed in-thread that it was a brief stay of confusion before he just shrugged it off and maybe conf biased himself that it was just a blip and everything is still fine and dandy. This confused the shit out of me. Because that didn’t seem like an attitude of a player with a Mason in Quin. So if he isn’t a Mason, and isn’t the elim switcher…I got nothing to explain Sloonei’s behavior this game.

On Night 2, Sloonei showed some flashes of old civ Sloonei, with deep dives into ISOs and interactions with DrWilgy and then a pretty thorough casing on GMan, which was welcomed! But before that? Wet towel. Even now, after bea’s untimely demise, his comment of “I wish this person rezzed can just take my place”. I don’t get it. It’s like he has not spark or drive this game. It’s really bugging me out.

But here’s what I think:

I think Sloonei is town. And that is because I think Golden is intentionally or unintentionally misleading or at least has convinced himself that the puzzle piece that he holds still fits, even though he’s trying to trade 3 sheep for 2 wood in a game of Monopoly.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:42 am I am mostly through day 1, and having the knowledge of subsequent deaths is helping me to get a better feel, and regain a bit of confidence. I've always been a "bull in the china shop" type of civvie, and it's a shitty bull that lacks confidence, that isn't how you break china.

@Sloonei I have a MUCH better feel for you, and am going to accept the real possibility that the baddies were trying to paint a baddie target on you. You are definitely more tentative than I recall you being, but then so am I and so are alot of people in this thread. I have seen some stuff in Day 1 in context (this works for me soooo much better than ISO's) and a quick ISO of the time between than and where I came in, during day 3, that clarifies you for me.

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:25 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:20 pm Dharma, llama I think are town
weaker TR on Wilgy

Could be tempted to townbin scotty + axe, but will decide later. More chaotic and less calculated suggests town)

Agree about Llama, they passed the vibe test until now

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:11 pm Voting for a Day 1 low-poster is a last resort option in the absence of “real” suspects.

This

Yet ... yet .... you voted for a low poster, and your rationale (not even in your voting post)

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:33 am [VOTE: Dfaraday] aubergine

I know I will have to make a decision re Golden v. Quin, I have waffly feels re both Golden and Quin. Initially I had this "Baddie! Burn the Baddie!" thing going on in my head re Quin, but then when i realized why, and read him in context, that settled down and stopped coloring my reads. Then while I haven't felt a massively strong read on Golden, two things he's said, when he asked Kate if she was sure of me, then Kate dies that night. Then today, this:

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:56 am Also funny that you just 'breezed right past' SVS's comment and chose to focus on me.

I know it's "Not all about me" (a chasm many mafia players fall into, imo, thinking the thread play revolves around them, and it's a mistake I'm prone to at times). But But this really feels like the baddies knew they had to get rid of the both of us, and I'd be an easier lynch. Planting those seeds, man.

So re those two, I'm still not getting a clear thread on either, but they've swapped spaces in my head canon.

So imma drop a placeholder vote on [VOTE: Michelle] aubergine cause I also think she could be bad. I think her overall ISO is wishy, and reading in context she is self contradictory.

Although I do give her civvie props for the poll shapshots, super useful and a good town look, especially if you are trying to cultivate a town look.

So this is likely to change, as I said, I need to make a choice re Golden/Quin in my own mind.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:50 am You don't care that looking like you're trying to save bea could get heat on you.

You don't want to case Quin because it could could get heat on you.

Make it make sense.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:23 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:58 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:04 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:21 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:49 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:05 pm @Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

I'm just gonna go right back to this and say:

I cannot see any world in which civ quin asks the question 'why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?'

I think this is an inherently 'knew bea was a civ on day 4' mindset.

Let's say I believe you. You didn't make the case on me because you thought it could backfire on you and get you lynched that Day.

My next question is, "Why does civ Golden not make his case that Night?"

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:57 am The only difference is that you would hypothetically have only put effort into one of the wagons.

Your proposed DF wagon was pure tokenism. You didn't actually care about alternate wagons at all.

Your hypothetical Quin wagon didn't happen because you didn't want to risk getting heat. You definitely didn't actually care about alternate wagons at all.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:57 amlinki: because DH is town.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:04 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:21 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:49 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:05 pm @Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:51 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:47 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:46 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:42 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:41 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:15 am If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

No, you.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Have you - even for one instant - ever indicated suspicion that I'm mafia in this game.

This really is a *literal* no u.

Nope. Your vote is just that rotten.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:46 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:42 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:41 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:15 am If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

No, you.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:30 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:08 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:06 am I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

"I don't care that these two things are different. Why won't you answer my question as though they were the same."

Why are they different? I am literally asking you to explain why they are different.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:41 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:15 am If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:41 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:15 am If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:30 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:08 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:06 am I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

"I don't care that these two things are different. Why won't you answer my question as though they were the same."

Why are they different? I am literally asking you to explain why they are different.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:02 pm Day 4 Vote Poll

Spoiler: show

Who burninated Scotty?

Poll ended at Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:00 pm

bea
8
40%


Voters: Golden, Elohcin, Michelle, sig, A Person, S~V~S, Kate, Vivax

DFaraday
0
No votes


Voters: None

DrWilgy
0
No votes


Voters: None

Elohcin
1
5%


Voters: Quin

Golden
1
5%


Voters: DFaraday

Kate
0
No votes


Voters: None

Michelle
0
No votes


Voters: None

Quin
1
5%


Voters: DrWilgy

S~V~S
0
No votes


Voters: None

sig
0
No votes


Voters: None

Sloonei
0
No votes


Voters: None

Vivax
1
5%


Voters: Sloonei

Trogdor! (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
8
40%


Voters: thellama73, nutella, JaggedJimmyJay, Epignosis, juliets, Matahari, Scotty, Spacedaisy


Total votes: 20

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:06 am I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:57 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:47 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:04 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:21 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:49 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:05 pm @Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

I literally explained it above. Couldn’t be arsed dealing with ‘trying to save bea’ heat.

As it turned out bea was civ anyway, so lol.

Why does casing me have a higher chance of leading to 'trying to save bea' heat than voting for, say, DF? The person who you voted for?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:04 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:21 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:49 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:05 pm @Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:51 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:21 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:49 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:05 pm @Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

Why are you fully with her about me?

I remember Sloonei said something in an interaction with you the other day but he didn't answer my question

I was AFK a lot of time and I am still AFK today because we visit my mother in law out of town but I am back tonight to talk to everyone.

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:19 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:15 pm I thought people who missed votes were the ones who were insanified?

Not sure about that, and you aren't either, which is why this is off to me. Because it's worded as if sig's assuming that it only affects town, which is something town shouldn't know.

Bea’s flip semi clears DF for me since he was also insaned

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:39 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:28 pm The thing about Sloonei is that he keeps oozing that aura of being in the game borderline involuntarily, while occasionally calling me mafia like he'd down a coffee during a break. Does mafia act like that I wonder ?

That’s the fatigue I mentioned.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:31 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:16 pm Also @Scotty why do you think you were NKed?

Because I’m just too unresistable, obv

I’m surprised it took them this long. I was almost unanimously Townread. Why do you think I was killed?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:49 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:05 pm @Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:51 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:07 pm I thought I had no impression of Michelle because of me, but her night 3 posts are just blendy and safe. It’s not me it’s you.

So you put me in the Poe for playstyle

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:14 pm I’m gonna ABuse my admin privileges to just change sig’s name to dog.

Vivax wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:29 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:08 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:46 pm Can't really spot any concerted effort to save G-Man around End of Day.
Bea vote sticks out as townie, at first glance. I think for a Feb team that doesn't want to stick out too much voting together to save him, G-Man is the more logical choice. With the best choice being to vote off both wagons.
Michelle feels less opinionated than during D1. The DFaraday push could be such an attempt at placing a vote away from G-Man and also not Sloonei.

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:58 pm Tokang thu ployurs frem thu lewust pesturs
Whot thu censunsis epanaen obeit Forodoy?

Has Ase as smoll, centoans o fuw ruods ond sulf muto soyang hu weild pest meru os o welf

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:50 pm I don't suspect either G-Man or Sloonei, and I won't be able to read the cases on them before the vote closes, so I will go ahead and move my vote to Michelle, on the grounds that I feel less town about her than anyone else really. As in, nothing has stood out as civ.

It's a weird interaction between these two, actually. It's really not the angle most of the game was looking at, and they seem to feel a bit too safe in this bubble where they push each other. DFara openly admits to not reading the reasons behind the wagons, but somehow finds Michelle interesting enough to read. Maybe he was just reading whoever was pushing him, but then he'd have had to read the thread?

The banger here is that Michelle didn't vote, so for DF to notice her, he'd also have had to run into posts describing reasons behind the main wagons. So this could be grounds to campaign for a DF lynch tomorrow, as it feels like he's lying here about what he read.

Vivax, on night three you talked about DF as someone there was grounds to campaign for.

Today you described it as a bad lynch.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on your progression and where you stand on DF and Michelle on balance.

I'd prefer to describe it as a worse lynch than Bea at the current gamestate. I think the strategic intent was too obvious anyway for mafia to fall for it, which was to play good cop in mafia-bea world. While it's tempting to just revive my D1 read on Sloonei and Eloh with their rather blunt way of pushing for my lim, I'd believe it more likely that mafia picked the sidelines here.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:39 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:29 pm

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:51 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:16 pm

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:14 pm

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:16 pm I think this is where we are supposed to fabricate towncases on our scumreads in the hope that they catch a bullet

Why would mafia kill themselves

I think viv means let’s talk about people in our POE we think are good so that maybe mafia kills them tonite, to shore up the pool

Ag that’s an interesting strategy

Can someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?

Okay so, (and I’ll say I don’t agree with it or think it’ll work anyway) but this is the scenario.

You basically hard core town clear your iffy town reads/null reads in the hopes mafia will say “player X is in the town core lets kill them” while in reality you suspected them. At least after thinking about it I’m pretty sure that’s what he means.


Now I don’t think this’ll work and I think it makes town players seem disingenuous/easier to flip flop BUT it’s really a cultural thing I’d say.

Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:46 pm Can't really spot any concerted effort to save G-Man around End of Day.
Bea vote sticks out as townie, at first glance. I think for a Feb team that doesn't want to stick out too much voting together to save him, G-Man is the more logical choice. With the best choice being to vote off both wagons.
Michelle feels less opinionated than during D1. The DFaraday push could be such an attempt at placing a vote away from G-Man and also not Sloonei.

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:58 pm Tokang thu ployurs frem thu lewust pesturs
Whot thu censunsis epanaen obeit Forodoy?

Has Ase as smoll, centoans o fuw ruods ond sulf muto soyang hu weild pest meru os o welf

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:50 pm I don't suspect either G-Man or Sloonei, and I won't be able to read the cases on them before the vote closes, so I will go ahead and move my vote to Michelle, on the grounds that I feel less town about her than anyone else really. As in, nothing has stood out as civ.

It's a weird interaction between these two, actually. It's really not the angle most of the game was looking at, and they seem to feel a bit too safe in this bubble where they push each other. DFara openly admits to not reading the reasons behind the wagons, but somehow finds Michelle interesting enough to read. Maybe he was just reading whoever was pushing him, but then he'd have had to read the thread?

The banger here is that Michelle didn't vote, so for DF to notice her, he'd also have had to run into posts describing reasons behind the main wagons. So this could be grounds to campaign for a DF lynch tomorrow, as it feels like he's lying here about what he read.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:26 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:12 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:53 pm Current vote total as of ~7 hours left in Day 3:

GMan (4): SVS, Richochet, Scotty, DrWilgy
sig (3): Vivax, Kate, Golden
SVS (2): DFaraday, sig
Kate (1): Quin
Quin (1): GMan
Vivax (1): Sloonei

Not Voting (3): bea, Elo, Michelle

Currently insanified: Michelle, sig

Can somebody who is not me reflect on the fact that Sloonei was not a wagon at this point, and only became one in the latter half of the day as a direct counter to the G-man wagon?

Sure. I suspected G Man, I also suspected you more than sig or definitely my civ self. Myself, Scotty and Vivax all started posting some suspicion of you. One of them (I think Scotty but I am not sure) voted for you. I moved to you deciding that if a G Man lynch failed, I would prefer a Sloonei lynch. So I moved my vote. You may not agree with this reasoning, but you’re acting like a man in shock, repeating the same question in various forms over and over.

I can’t answer for anyone who voted for you after me, but apparently several people think you’re shady AF.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:17 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:13 pm

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:50 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:38 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.

Yes, this makes sense. Thinking back on g-man's play, it seems like he was doing just enough to try to get by trying to look civ without rocking the boat too much to gain suspicion. As if he were going it pretty much alone and trying to hold it all together. This doesn't help alleviate my gut suspicion of DH, now SVS. And neither does SVS' lack of voting Gman. I don't know why I can't shake it. Does ANYone else feel the same way?

I don't. She's got her kid gloves on in a sense, when it comes to Bea, but bea is looking more and more bad to me and svs noticed that right away. If she were bad, I believe she'd shy away from accusing bea at all. Also, she can read me like a newspaper, and I've never seen a bad svs defend a civ me as well as she has here.

This is exactly my thought.

In a world where Sloonei is civ, bea voting not only to tie the game with a self-professed poor read on the game at large, but to potentially save GMan is a double red flag.

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:15 pm I can see early game reasons why one might feel that way and have before. I think DH was there in frustration before he subbed out. But I tend to agree wirh you on that point viv.

This is responding to Viv’s comment that a civ should never be fine getting miselimmed, which is what GMan was doing.
Then, 20 minutes later:

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:34 pm I am a confused and no lies feel like any vote I make is rushed and illinformed.

Also i missed why svs voted sloon? It looked in the thread like she sused gman.

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:35 pm Dgoing with the tie. I hope rev knows better than i do.

Nothing in that progression makes sense. Does a civ bea have to make sense? No, but I’d expect a better explanation for doing 2 nakedly hedgey and scummy things.

bea is mafia for these actions alone.

This is pretty damning my only issue with Bea is her lack of voting and curse the following day. I’d think the mafia would be more on top of that? Of course that could also serve as a good strategy for a one day pass BUT she wasn’t being suspected then anyway.

I don’t really recall Bea’s neta so I’m a bit worried this may be another Lorab style vote so if any older players could chime in I’d appreciate it

@Kate @Golden @S~V~S