The Syndicate

Jack- everyone I could have meaningfully voted the day I lynched you was town. I was right to be conflicted. But your lynch turned out to be the most productive, and I couldn't lynch rico when he was overtly claiming Erika. The thing that put me over the edge on you was your vehement defence of rico... I thought you were claiming josie then backing off it when I pressed.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:57 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:06 pm I'll never NK you Dom. Why would I when I can make you look hella bad?
Because I generally am scorched earth when getting votes in a serious way.

Civ dom in full form is a sight to behold. These last couple of days it was fun watching dom just steamroll through. It was evident to me on the last day that the best possible thing I could do was just get out of Dom's way and let him take speedchuck down.

That was for speed not epi.

I don't think your kill choices helped either, although that's less within your control. I baited a kill by throwing your name out there once I suspected it was you, believing that nutella was John and DF was Pamela by that point, and that it kept at least one of the power roles alive another day (I wasn't sure if LoRab was the other one).

One thing that also gets lost in games like this is the utility you can get from the right civilian lynch (although you can never plan it intentionally). Jack's lynch ended up working in the towns favour, we couldn't have narrowed so many things down without knowing timmer was the glow cloud.

Sprit, I hope your break is not too long. You're a lot of fun to play with.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:46 pm@nijuukyugou, awesome game. very awesome.

Too true! Very fun.

I suspected that Boomslang decided ties.

rico, I assume your gimmick was real and not forced?

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:27 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:25 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:24 pm @Dom arent you glad i tried to mediate you during your whole argument with golden? i sure am
I was trying not to have an argument! Seriously, I was busy trying to get LC lynched!

@Quin - you didn't even get to be suspected let alone death.
Then why did you do everything (you presumably know how to) to draw me into the argument?

I wasn't, seriously! I couldn't get out from under all your poking, whether I responded to your or didn't respond to you it was evidence that I was bad at that time. I think you softened on me when I actually got LC lynched and he was bad.

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:24 pm @Dom arent you glad i tried to mediate you during your whole argument with golden? i sure am

I was trying not to have an argument! Seriously, I was busy trying to get LC lynched!

@Quin - you didn't even get to be suspected let alone death.

You played awesome sprit. So did Dom and boomslang.

Ps Dom - my unwillingness to answer questions early was my attempt to roleplay a cat.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:15 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:14 pm lol rico @ inh being btsc partners, not sure why i didn't click on that within 30 seconds of reading their argument
we were potential partners.

neither of us thought that the other was a civilian, unfortunately.

He spent the whole game posting an angel emoji about himself! That's why I was never going to lynch him.

I was feeling confident speed was bad after I died, but boy was his iso fairly clean. Speed, you played exceptionally well.

Wait... rico and inh never pmed each other to get btsc? Is that what I just read? All they had to do was try to get btsc with the other?

Well played town.

Btw, thanks for bringing me back everyone!

I've provided everything I can meaningfully provide. If Quin votes and ends the day early that's fine with me. Good luck town, I believe in you all!/dead]

I wouldn't even know how to go about making a lick of sense to you, but I'll admit I'm not really trying to. My opinions are based on who I think is in each role, and I'm running out of town roles for speedchuck to be in. I'm not sure you're one to mine the thread for info, but the reason my arguments are perhaps not persuasive is because I'm reading between a lot of lines rather than simply going on what someone puts in the thread.

Rico spent several days in a row claiming a wolf team that wasn't and has used a gimmick which conveniently means he doesn't have to provide an explanation for the motivations or reasons for thinking the way he does. I think it's cheap and dirty and if he's bad and wins this way I'd be very disappointed in him, because it's like a hack. There's plenty of reasons that I could point to for why I could justify a vote for rico.

But I'm not going to try to use any of them because fundamentally I do not believe rico is a politician, and I think it would be a waste of a day lynching him.

I don't know why rico thinks quin is the cat, or is he concerned he targeted the cat? Either way, rico just isn't analysing the game well (and I also think quin will vote speedchuck).

One thing I will say, though? Boomslang is trying to get the town a win. You peeps should trust him I believe. He'll help thin the field of potential baddies.

I'd still look at rico before I looked at inh

Well speed, I think you're probably done. But I'm interested in your views of dom if you're town. They'll matter tomorrow.

My meaningless vote goes on Speedchuck.

Speedchuck was legitimately concerned that a tracker could have seen him targeting Wilgy, in my book. He's trying to explain it away, and the only legitimate explanation is that he's the sheriff targeting Wilgy for protection... which holds a little merit, but not a lot (would anyone really target Wilgy for the kill? Maybe, but he seems one of the least invested at this point, so I'm sceptical.)

Dom, I know you want to fight me for why you're second. I think speedchuck is bad, and everyone else is good, so it's simply putting you top of the list amongst a group of people who don't look like Politicians to me. I don't want to fight you on 'why you're town' because I have a specific role in mind for you, that I had previously believed to be Epi but was wrong.

Put simply though, everyone looks good, the last politician has played this game extremely well, but it has to be someone. It's hard ranking a bunch of people who all look town. I would have assumed it had to be Boomslang if it wasn't for last night.

In the heart of hearts, here is my ranking, from most likely to least likely to be politician:

Speedchuck
Dom
Ricochet
INH
Sprityo

All five of these people could be. I'm leaving out Wilgy, Quin and Boomslang who I simply don't believe can be at all. I'll also note that I have each of Dom, Rico and Sprit penciled in to specific roles, but not speedchuck or INH.

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:26 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:23 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:34 pm Much rather would have Rico die than INH
also speedchuck:

*votes Boomslang*
Personal theory:
He didn't want the INH vs. Rico sideshow to go away.

Good theory.

Of course rico is bonkers enough, but that doesn't mean he's bad. He was one of the most vehement in keeping tony firmly in his sights as a lynch option.

This is a guy who I seriously contemplated for a while as politician, but it just doesn't fit with the facts.

I think one of the big differences between you and I might be how much emphasis we put on figuring out who fits in what role. This helps me have some confidence in Dom.

Also noting - for it to be Dom, he would have to have read blue velvet without playing. Didn't check if he was the MoD.

I feel speed is very hard to discount, but if it's him he's played it very well.

I read sprit, and after that I came to the conclusion that NOONE looks bad. Whoever it is, they've played well.

I want to iso Dom, but I'm of the firm view that it's neither inh nor sprit, and rico seems unlikely. That means Dom is right or Dom is bad. I'd be willing to take a punt on speedchuck, I think it's a good bet. His vote for tony is distance teammate compatible, and I died right when I started calling speed out as a potential politician.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:16 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:13 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:56 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:52 pm "Cecil is alive, Elo is Kevin"

This is the part where I'm like...

Ok cool but where the hell did that come from?
Tony had the theory. Wilgy seems to have confirmed it. Then we got a message from Cecil overnight, suggesting Cecil is still alive.

It could be a massive team trick and Tony and Wilgy could be allies who know they get the power of Cecil after Cecil died, this is possible.
so what does that mean for tony?
It looks better, but not great. TSP could have (if I remember correctly) been on either mafia team. Now if he's mafia, he'd have to be on the politicians I think. And the politician argument for TSP was weaker than the Strex argument. But it was there.

I'll have to go back and look, and that sounds like a Monday thing.

This post is a great look for speed - an analysis of tony in the aftermath of the first glance view that elo was Kevin, before the wisdom was Hiram. This doesn't read like a tony teammate.

Also, something that looks good on speed is that he has spent the game up to that point overtly town hunting, not just baddie hunting. That feels like someone who wants town to win.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:52 pm Ugh I do not feel like figuring all of this out right now.

Between TSP and INH... I've been more consistently bad-feely about INH, but the TSP case has merit. Not lynching Dom today. Wilgy is a possibility that I need to ISO, perhaps tomorrow.

Wait, are Jack and Golden voting for TSP for completely different reasons? Golden thinks he's a politician, Jack thinks he's Marcus. And there's a legit argument for both.

Sure, Vote TSP.

Speed reads supatown to me. I can't help it! But there's little in there for me to rule him out of being politician.

He did theorise Tony could be Strex. He also correctly guessed timmer could be on politicians. Would he have done either of those if pol with them?

But the above vote post for TSP is perhaps... odd. Speed, why is Tony more palatable for a vote simply because Jack's reasons and my reasons were different? (My reason for voting him - he was too concerned about proving he wasn't Marcus rather than proving he wasn't bad - seem to be correct. Should trust my instincts more.)

A note on Rico - it's not impossible that his steadfast refusal to use words may be a role limitation. If so, he's Hiram. It seems unlikely, because he's using blobs that he likes. But Hiram apparently tries to pretend to be human but is obviously not.

Chances that rico just happens to get a role that allows him to act enigmatically? Low. I don't think much of this theory. But I can't rule it out.
I still wish Rico would do something else now that we're at endgame. At least G-Man started using Memes with words in.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:17 pm
nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:02 pm Interns, today no intern may place a 4th vote on any player. Any votes placed 4th will not count.
I took this to mean that only the person who was the fourth to vote for a person had their vote invalidated, and that people who voted after them would have legit votes.

@Niju, was I wrong?

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:23 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:18 pm That sucks on multiple levels. I didn't miss something did I? Tony was definitely leading on the poll?
Yep. Tony had 6 votes, and Elo had 2.

That's why we need confirmation whether Tony had 3 or 5 votes actually count against him.

POSSIBLE VOTE MANIP SCENARIOS:

Tony = Dana and survived his first kill attempt.
Me or Sprit is Marcus.

I sure as shit am not Marcus.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:27 pm
nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:19 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:17 pm
nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:02 pm Interns, today no intern may place a 4th vote on any player. Any votes placed 4th will not count.
I took this to mean that only the person who was the fourth to vote for a person had their vote invalidated, and that people who voted after them would have legit votes.

@Niju, was I wrong?

Really lady? Fuckfuckfuck.

There's no lynch stop except for Dana. Cecil's role couldn't have targeted anyone, therefore Khoshekh couldn't be involved. So, only half of the votes counted against Tony actually counted. And Sprityo is Marcus. That's the only feasible scenario, looking at the roles.

Possibly secrets, or a fake death-claim or something like that.

Fuck.

This stuff feels genuine as heck and not like a Tony teammate...

Yeah, with votes and iso, I'm leaning once again heavily away from inh as the solution.

Unfortunately, I won't have much more PC time, so for anything else I do it's on phone. That makes this level of quoting from iso impossible.
But I'll try to look at speed and sprit.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:38 pm Elo, you're the person who has pushed the curse narrative that I feel the Politician team would want to push the most, and you haven't responded in any real way to criticism of the "curses reference BV and Rot3K, so FOW must have been in both" rationale. Instead, you ignore contrary opinions while blending into the proverbial pack.

That's why you're at the bottom of my rainbow list, and you're the person I'd be most comfortable seeing go today.

INH says this very late in the day, after voting elo. Tony's narrative was always Elo as Strex, but INH's logic is all elo as politician, which is not only incorrect but INH would know that fact if he was one himself. Once again, for INH to be bad, he'd be playing with a certain level of constructed deviousness which would be both scary good in one sense but also entirely unnecessary in another. If he knew Elo was dying and had info she was bad,
why limit himself to politician here? The behaviour he was seeing seems valid just as a general statement of seeming bad. Instead, it feels like genuine politician hunting here.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:56 pm
LoRab wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:45 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:36 pm I'm thinking that Rico has something on INH and can't share it because rules if there is anything. Or maybe he has something on Golden and is pairing the two. I haven't been town reading INH, but I think he is right about the curse, it looks like a frame.
This reads like a teammate sort of but not really defending a teammate. You're basically saying that Rico might have info, INH hasn't seemed civvie, but really, this means INH is right and not bad.

Neither you nor INH looks all that good based on this post.
Alternate reading: He knows I'm most likely civilian, and is securing "I-told-you-so" insurance if I'm lynched. These kinds of wishy-washy statements give him rhetorical cover whichever way the wind blows.

Rainbow list incoming.

An interesting exchange. Unfortunately, another I can tinfoil both ways. LoRab seeing a real teammate, or INH spot on about Tony's false motives? It's worth noting, inh also voted elo the same day sprit did, and this despite this particular phrasing around Tony... I'm paying attention to INH's day 3 carefully now.

Always be wise when the host gets you to do something. You just never know how relevant it might be.

Sprit, have you gone back and done what I said people should do in my earliest return posts yet? Have you got my role sorted?

Tony was always going to survive his lynch, and he came out of it with a very clear belief that Elo was bad which suggests the team had info.
Given this, what looks more incriminating...

Sprityo - complaining against a Tony lynch, and voting Elo (correctly voting a baddie, would believe he would get some cred after Elo's death, but risks backlash if Tony dies the next day); or

Speedchuck - voting for Tony at a critical juncture. A functional distance with low risk, given Tony survives and has a plan to look civilian in the aftermath, but speedchuck is protected with the distance if Tony still gets lynched the next day...

Both are functional teammate plays.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:16 pmYou and mayyybe Speedchuck are the people I could see having cursed right now.

INH, on night 2 you fingered epi and speedchuck as the ones most likely to have been responsible for the cursing. Do you remember why you saw them as more likely?

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:16 pm Do you find anything incriminating about Speedchuck changing stances of myself? I know he had suspected me early, backed off, and now that you're here I'm straight to the bottom of his list again.

Im not one to find changed stances incriminating. A civilian should constantly rethink their perspective. But I haven't looked at speed more broadly yet, and his interactions with tony may be key (yours too)

Correct. He also implied he controlled the choice of Elo to die when he survived his lynch, which checks out since she was third in votes accounting for Epis vote for inh that day. So, he does appear to be a role with secrets, and that points straight to Hiram.

Tony voted inh on both days two and four, in both cases inh was seriously at risk of lynching.

On day two, Tony voted very late to tie it between inh and LC, but he would have known inh still had a vote to self-protect if they were a team. His decision to wait could have been to see if LC would show to self-protect... it would have been a risky teammate play, but possible to create distance.

Day four is more problematic though. There was every chance inh came out of that day dead, and immediately after losing timmer. Overall, the voting pattern isn't particularly compatible with a tony/inh pairing.

To Jack - I note, in death, that my plan to tie and catch Marcus actually worked, with Epis non-vote, even though I was wrong about Epi. I'm sorry you died for it!

I can't break the rules, but I already told you to do something that will make my role very apparent if you do it. I'm only here for a day, and not much more of it at that, so make sure my contribution isn't talking into the wind.

Also, sprit, if you're not bad it's probably speedchuck, so I'd turn my attention there. I think I'm legitimately the only person to seriously contemplate the idea, and I died that same night.

Ricos list is important. If tony is politician, and it's hard to see how he wouldn't be given how happy he was to be considered independent, then the politicians almost certainly consists of one of sprit, speed, inh or rico.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:48 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:40 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:35 pm Epi, for the second time, can you verbalize your stance on me? I asked you yesterday, and you completely brushed me off.

I'd extend that question to everyone who has bandied about my name. Give me a case or some substance to respond to at least.

Imma gonna ISO Epi.
I think you and your team cursed Ricochet. I know people want to write off the Poppy business, but I came in here at one point to say exactly what Ricochet had already said regarding the curse. Someone who played Blue Velvet is on the cursing team. I sure as hell didn't curse Rico with that nonsense, and Long Con didn't. I think you did. It's that simple. Is it a sexy case? No. But it doesn't have to be sexy to be right.

Protip: Next time pick a curse nobody can link you to. Ask your teammate Jack for suggestions.
So, you think someone who was in BV must be on the cursing team. LC was in Blue Velvet. So was Speedchuck, Wilgy, Timmer, Sprityo, and of course Ricochet.

Assuming that LC wasn't the one who told Faceless Old Lady what to curse Rico with, why does it have to be me and not one of the many other people involved in that game?

Doing a quick inh iso. It's posts like this that make me think it's not inh. If he is a politician, his level of off the cuff obfuscation is commendable. The idea of faking the misunderstanding of LC being on the same team as the curser seems... well, elaborate. It can't be ruled out, but it doesn't seem likely. But I'll return to the iso when I can.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:36 am I'm not cursed y'all. May as well let that be known. If nobody is cursed that could mean TSP was the Old Hag.

He died after he had the chance to use an action.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:20 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:00 am I tend to believe Boomslang wouldn't be so frank if he was a threat to the town, so the best place to hit today may well be the idea that all we have to do is catch one politician and we're done.
I mean, I'm fine with catching the politician today, but from what I can tell, it looks like the Tan Man inherited the Strex kill. So even if we don't have the politicians all eliminated by tomorrow, we should probably do something about it

There's nothing about having a kill that is inherently anti-town. If Tan Jacket wants to help us kill politicians, great! Win condition is more important, and I tend to think Boom would have been less overt if his win condition wasn't aligned with ours.

Blooper, do I get a vote?

So, here's my starting point before doing any work.

Does anyone have any reason to believe that Tony knew about the various curses? I've lost that list.

Sprityo had reason to kill me. I was after him as politician in a big way towards the end.

I had begun to link speedchuck to elo, but obviously that's bunk now. Speed has felt town all game, but I need to have a good look to see if there's any reason he can be ruled out.

Insertnamehere has felt very genuine to me this game. One of the most genuine aspects of his case was his plea for why he was not Elo's teammate. Epi ignored it at the time, well now we know why, but it still felt genuine to me. It did not feel like someone who was using a piece of common wisdom he knew was false to his advantage. It's still worth revisiting though.

Ricochet never really felt like a politician. The curses on him felt unlikely and most of his existing effort felt like he was trying to catch the politicians. He knows about the curses and can't be entirely ruled out, but he seems unlikely.

Dom feels town through and through, but I really need to look back again to his overall interactions. I'm not sure it's impossible for him to be politician.

Doc is town. Boom just gave us every reason to not see him as politician. Quin used to be Neverwhere - if Tony didn't know about the curses, Neverwhere certainly didn't, and Timmer wasn't around... well, then, Quin is lock cleared.

Oops, I forgot I'm still dead. Sorry peoples!

Hey peeps!

Today would have been really great for me to post, but tomorrow not so much. I'll do whatever we can.

My guess is Tan Jacket got the kill because Eloh was, in fact, Kevin0 Strex is probably dead. Epi's analysis about timmer being Eloh's teammate pretty much confirms, in hindsight, that he wasn't.

Given Tony wasn't Tan Jacket but was happy to let it be believed that he was, I'm wondering if he is a politician after all - perhaps Hiram McDaniels. Some notes to look back on include his reaction to Cecil thinking Hiram was Elo (it was fairly nonchalant all things considered). Very decent chance we're down to just one left.

By the way, I hope you're all paying attention to the videos that play after each person's death. There's some real benefit to looking at those. Particularly mine, although I'm guessing since you rezzed me you are all pretty convinced about my civvieness already, and clearly I'm not the Tan Man.

I tend to believe Boomslang wouldn't be so frank if he was a threat to the town, so the best place to hit today may well be the idea that all we have to do is catch one politician and we're done.

PS, great work on the split plan. I was sitting there silently thinking 'why can't they pick one, surely Marcus will make sure it ain't him that dies'. But you all had epi cornered with two days of silence in a row etc etc, and is it played out I think it became apparent how it was going down. Well done in particular to dom and quin, you nailed it with the way you played it.

I may still be on the poll, but please don't kill me again. Thanks.

I fucking knew it. Good game everyone!

Boomslang would be a great lynch today. Dom needs proper examination. Sprit is still more likely bad than INH to me. And if Pamela doesn't take one off the poll, it's probably DF.

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