The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:He's gotten so many by now. Two of them for being unlynchable. One just for dying D1 and getting to hang out with me.

You forgot the win he got by getting Alex to do the macarena.

S~V~S wrote:For me it had nothing to do with your civilian meta, Golden. I thought you pulled a ballsy move and then tried to bullshit your way out of it

BullSUIT SVS, get it right

I'm so pulling out that bullsuit again.

Rico - I targetted DFaraday night one, and the element I picked was water. I don't remember what else I did, I may have targetted DH day three i think?

Rey, I hold nothing against you, I'm just glad you didn't quit, because I'm really pleased to have you back.

It was my fault people went after me. But it is also the mere existence of my strong civilian meta. People couldn't buy the fact that as a neutral, I would be willing to try a gambit to take out someone that I thought was a threat to my survival. I thought people would recognise that I do gambits all the time, and it's completely me, and that it would make sense in the context of the game. Clearly not!

Can't wait for recruitment 5!

Hey, even when you are bad you really want other baddie teams out of the way. The person who cursed me might well have been a civ, I just don't know.

I played this game really badly, but it really was my first game ever where the affiliations weren't basically set up front and straightforward. It was quite an experience, and I clearly played it all wrong.

The someone was whoever made votes against me count for more... I wonder who it was.

Ricochet wrote:Oh, it's way in the past, but I forgot to mention.

On N2, when Llama forced me to vote Golden, I faked being silenced. The contradiction between me defending Golden the previous Days (or just being highly indifferent to the whole debacle) and suddenly having to turn on him would have been too compromising. It also made me believe LoRab was forced to do the same, suddenly jumping on him, but if so, she found a way to work with that. Still waiting confirmation on that.

Oh, on day 3, I think I had 50% more votes than whatever I actually got... that was what made me so defeatist. I knew that I needed to get something like 8-10 votes on someone else to survive... while convincing some people who were determined I was bad not to vote me.

I absolutely knew that someone (I suspected SVS, but not sure if her team was actually responsible for that bit) really wanted me out of the way.

At that point, it seemed like the only way I could win the game would be death and rebirth. I also learned that the Lord of Thunder would get full abilities, so I didn't feel too bad about it.

I was sad to never get rezzed I really wanted back in.

S~V~S wrote:Yay

This is the first time I have won one of these.

You really deserved it.

TinyBubbles wrote:congrats winners!

AND TOLD YA I WAS INNOCENT.

Is your civilian perfect record still intact? Lol, I thought you'd finally broken it!

Did I win?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Linki: Yes she was. She was indeed.

I thought as much when I died... I had been so desperate to get a rezz to go NO REALLY PEOPLE SVS IS BAD!!!!

I knew SVS was bad... was she Uzgarban?

Man did I know she was bad... but I had tarnished my own credibility too much.

Well played guys!

MovingPictures07 wrote:Alright, zombies and non-zombies, what do you think?

I'm taking non-monetary bets on whether this game (currently 5960 posts) will pass Death Note (7840 posts) as the mafia game on The Syndicate with the most posts. Who wants in?

I thought this game would win the title for sure from the get go, but part of me is wondering now.

I bet that it depends on whether or not someone REZZES ME!!!!

Off to Oz. I've left plenty of legacy content here. If I die, please use it. And don't assume SVS is genuine just because she has been consistent. She is tricksy like that. Test her!

Bye!

Love you all!

SVS, take the deal!

It's hard for me to know at this point whether I'll be lynched or not, but my spidey sense points to yes. Not only am I going to be away from now until after the lynch, but the things happening in the poll are not the only measures taken against me today. I simply can't afford to take votes today, and there are too many people who are too stubborn to allow me a pass.

My self-vote today was not 'oddly defeatist' - it was oddly realist. There has been a concerted effort to get me out today beyond the votes taken in the thread and there is very little I can do to escape my fate, but I've laid everything out and done the best I can to achieve it. But nevertheless, in the end, I'm going to leave my vote on boomslang. I think my own best interests would be served putting it on rey, but I'm putting it on boomslang because thats who I think is bad right now.

I've done my best to have fun during this game. I hope you continue to make great use of pedantic pink and the bullsuit if I'm lynched. See you guys on the other side, I swear that if I'm lynched I'll try my best to come back so we can kick some baddie butt together. That is all.

(And if I don't manage to get back - thanks for the game hosts and other players. Even though I can't remember any game that I've ever played where so many people have pursued me so avidly but so wrongly, and even though I'll admit not all of it has been easy, I've still had a lot of fun. I asked for a modkill a long time ago in this game. The hosts said no. They were wise, and right. I feel much better for trying as hard as I could to get others to see the light. If I fail, so be it).

@MP - I don't understand your vote. If it stays there, I think you should explain it better.

I'll also say one more thing SVS... this has only just occurred to me.

I do think there is scenario in which you could be this stubborn and sincere... and knowing you it could be true.

I could see you being stubborn because you do not want to back off me and let me go and find out later you were right and didn't stick with it, because you would be pissed off at yourself. That makes sense to me.

I also want to point out that despite saying I am beginning to find your stubbornness insincere, I still have not voted for you - I've been looking to find someone who I think is genuinely very suspicious. I think both rey and boomslang look a lot worse than you do.

And yet, I continue to believe I can convince you if I keep trying, lol.

I'd like to quote something for you that I think you ought to have read and thought about, but think you have chosen not to.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:When Golden and Epignosis were dueling, one thing Golden said was this (paraphrasing): If I end up on the same team as Epignosis, I will kill him myself.

Don't you think this maneuver by Golden, which on the surface seems like an absurd statement, might have an underlying meaning which strongly supports what he has been saying? If some part of Golden suspected Epignosis was a recruiter with an interest in recruiting him, then that seemingly absurd statement suddenly makes perfect sense. He'd have been literally instructing Epignosis not to recruit him because he didn't want to be recruited by Epignosis. "Don't do that or I'm going to be a detriment to your win condition."

S~V~S wrote:Unless Golden started out on someones short list, or is a recruiter himself, I don't see him applying for baddie positions in the various contests that the host is likely to have, based on prior experience with their games. I also think that, based on odds, he is as unlikley to have started out as a baddie recruiter as anyone else, 2 people out of 30ish? I know that if i was a baddie recruiter, I would not put Golden on an initial 3 person list because he has often said he strongly prefers being a civ, and I would not recruit someone who would be unhappy to be recruited, someone who would have preferred to be on another team. I know not everyone thinks like me, but I will assume that some do. So I think that the odds of Golden finishing the game as a civ or a neutral are somewhat higher than for most people. There are a lot of "ifs" in what I just said, and any of then could be wrong. The weakest link, imo, is the supposition that baddies would be less likley to recruit him. Perhaps if they were not as familiar with him as I am, or if they did not care about his preferences.

I also thought you had said something about remembering the game where I went out of my way to warn the baddies not to recruit me, but maybe that was someone else, I couldn't find that in your iso.

S~V~S wrote:So after days of saying I was sincere, now I am being intentionally false?

I probably would have bought the frame theory if you had not made that one post after Epi died. I believed then, and still believe now, with all my heart, that a baddie made that post.

Linki, I will cross that bridge when I come to it. But I don't think I will ever come to it. I doubt you will be lynched, you talked your way out of it. Then tomorrow I will be NKed probably, and it will be another attempt to frame poor Golden. And if you are lynched, I dont think you will come up good.

At some point, your choice to be stubborn and not engage has begun to feel to me like insincerity, yes.

And you still say, basically, you are hanging on to that one post - and that you would hang on to a single post while refusing to ever think about seeing it from another angle so stubbornly surprises me.

I tell you what, I'll do a bet with you. I tried to do this in RYM87 and sleepy wouldn't do it, he refused. Do what G-Man asked MP to do. Bet your mafia reputation on it. If, at the end of this game, the wash up makes it clear that I was neutral from the start up until Day 3, you will put in your signature "I staked my mafia reputation on golden being bad and I was wrong."

I, on the other hand, if I am bad, will post in my sig "S~V~S called me out, wouldn't back down, and was right."

The other part of this deal is, loser doesn't get to vote for the other one for the next five games we play together and loses their rights to claim they can read the other.

Deal?

S~V~S wrote:He is trying to imply persecution of him when, hello, its a Mafia game. Discussion of and defending against suspicions is how the game is played.

And I will say this is the thing you've said which I find most difficult to see eye to eye with you on.

When I defend against cases made against me that I do not think stack up, and I defend against them day after day (literally a week at this point?) but those who allege those things choose to ignore every word I say and stand stubbornly against me, apparently I am 'implying persecution'.

I think there has been PLENTY of discussion of and defending against suspicions against me. That is me playing mafia, right?

But I also think there has been plenty of discussion AT me, continually, post after post, the number of times you have posted just to say the same thing again and again - that you have no interest in doing anything other than voting for me without any further thought - it actually does surprise me.

SVS, I want to know what your reaction will be in this game, in the event you get me lynched. I am not going to flip bad. When I do not flip bad, what will your reaction be?

S~V~S wrote:Now Golden's saying any argument that arrives at a conclusion that he could be bad is illogical and fallacious. [/u][/b]

I have never said or implied that. In fact, I have acknowledged that some of them are not.

I think yours is fallacious, because I have provided you with a whole lot to go on here but you have closed your mind to even listening to it.
I think reys is... whats the word when you take advantage of a situation that arises? I can't think of it right now. My brain says fortuitous, but thats wrong.
I think DH's is playing intentionally aloof, and that its insincere. Its hard to call it illogical or fallacious because it isn't based on a case against me, he just seems to be 'scared of me'.
I think epi's was deliberately obtuse.

BUT: I think boomslang, Dom, Lorab, and timmer have all expressed suspicion of me that I think is entirely genuine (despite the fact I think boomslang might be bad). I think BWT's suspicion on me was genuine. I don't think any of these people have demonstrated that their view of me is illogical or fallacious. I'm not a fan of Lorab saying that I'm a distraction and anti-civ despite being neutral, but I understand it.

Btw, as you might have noticed from being the super-expert on my civilian game - often the place where my spidey sense is the MOST well attuned is in figuring out whether those who go after me are being genuine or not.

JJ, I'd like to know what you think more broadly about Boomslang beyond just that vote.

Also, boomslang, noting that my vote is still in play, I'd like to know if you have prefer to vote for me when I say this clearly - I am not asking you to vote for me. I am resolved to fight what I can fight, I'm just also resigned to the fact that I am a very easy target today and I might well be lynched. If I survive today, there won't be any self-voting from me tomorrow.

I actually think boomslang's suspicion of me has been entirely legitimate, but hey... baddies would be baddie hunting too. Two baddie teams.

Cue person who says 'why that team. Is it because you know he is not on the team that killed epi because you are on it?

It's because I think boomslang might have thought G-Man and I were baddie teammates, and they wanted to take out one of the other baddie team.

I also have a dichotomy. I do not want to vote rey given how things have unfolded, but him choosing not to vote for me also gives me a chance of surviving, so I no longer want to vote for me...

I'll register a vote for Boomslang who I think warrants a decent amount of scrutiny. I think it possible he could be on mafia team two that killed G-Man.

Bubbles posting habits (in particular the relatively small frequency for the level of investment) seem more or less on point for what I would call normal bubbles, but she has never yet been bad, and I do think there are aspects of her posts which could be seen differently.

I can't say I have any recollection either way about how she has responded to votes on her, people playing in Angry Birds might have a comment on it from that game. In BoB she just kept reiterating that she wasn't bad (and she wasn't) but I'm not sure she ever addressed votes against he or the specific people who made them.

Bea, I've had so much defending to do I've had no time to really examine that.

I do think good points have been raised on aapje, I think quiet people like DP, DF and russti are decent bets for recruits. I've had very mixed vibes from daisy.

I think I've done a much better job with figuring out who I don't think is bad.

@rey - I did not ask LoRab to switch her vote for you, and she didn't switch her vote to you, and I am sure everyone is open to persuasive arguments about who is bad.

I do not see today as a you or me thing (although I admit I see it as a 'me' thing, and there are not many viable alternatives).

Can you not see why, from my perspective, it is rough to feel like I am going to be lynched on a day where I'll be able to do nothing about it?

Rey, the answer to your question is:

No, I do not think you are a shitty player, I think you are Azura.

I am going to be lynched today. Everyone will know that those who insist I'm bad are wrong, and then you should examine those people's motives and posts very carefully...

You should note that SVS said 'the civ golden she knows would fight not to get recruited bad' and then ignore the posts that point to me doing exactly that - including me trying to get epi killed. JJJ even outlined it very carefully - how me getting epi killed looks very much like an effort to not be recruited bad (this is definitely one part of my motivation). SVS next post is immediately after. She said she couldn't believe the level of my emotional manipulation, and she is very happy with her vote. She claims to be an expert in my civilian game, but she has been wilfully blind to everything I've given her to see I am playing exactly that game. SVS has mostly seemed sincere before, but she has demonstrated a particular hardheadedness that I'm beginning to find convenient. Her initial suspicion on me I found very easy to believe, but her refusal to hear any rebuttal is something I think everyone should be interested in.

Rey - I'll admit his recent self-vote makes me wonder. He has begun to sound a lot like me, telling me what I should know about him 'full well', which is a favourite of mine when I'm frustrated. Which might be a good sign for him. Nevertheless, his posts should be scrutinised. He found weak reasons to jump on me on both days, and he recently claimed I've been misrepresenting him on the matter of 'motivation' when I've been raising it over and over again for days and he hasn't responded to it once until now. It's hard to misrepresent someone on something when they don't represent themselves on it to begin with. Again, though, his explanation for what he meant by 'motivation' meshes with his actions. Maybe I've been harsh on rey.

Boomslang - I recommend everyone iso him, but particularly JJ. He has been pretty consistent on me, and his logic seems overall sound, but he hasn't talked about a lot else. Take the G-Man kill into account when you read it. Could be nothing, but I think this is very interesting when I did it.

DH - Read the number of interactions between DH and I before he declared he was scared of me, and see if any of you think that was a genuine statement. It didn't bother me because DH has said all sorts of random things today, and I took his vote for me as a neutral vote that was no skin off his nose. But then he started going after me for the difference between him being scared and a threat, and the more I pushed him on it, the less sincere I felt he was. Finally the dam burst and we got some honestly from him, which can only be a good thing. But everyone should consider whether any of you were legitimately scared of me killing you when DH said he was, and then consider how little interaction we'd actually had towards each other before then, and wonder what is going on there...

That's all. I think Dom's vote for me was really very genuine. Other votes haven't bothered me at all.

If I have the chance to vote again and think there is a realistic chance of my survival in doing so, then I will. I will say that my self vote is not that I WANT out. I really don't. It's just that I don't have a lot of faith that there is anything I can do to claw this back.

??? really?

Especially an uphill battle against five angry people with pitchforks who are determined they are right.

@TH - I didn't sign up for an uphill battle when I'm going on holiday. No sir.

But I think you and I have a different view of clean slate. I already explained what I meant to Canuck. The current reasons for suspecting me will be shown up as (at best) wrong or (at worst) intentional baddie manipulation into lynching me. I doubt anyone will choose to rezz me (they may - hey, I'm all for any civvie rezzing me who has a rezz and recruit) but I am expecting rezz contests because I think that's what the hosts implied, and that leaves me in control of my own destiny.

One thing I implore everyone.

Don't take 'oops, I was wrong' for an answer. There have been several people who have tunneled so deeply on me that they have ignored all rational arguments, and all reason. I will be setting this out in my legacy post. Pursue it, please.

@TH - why, you think people will still continue to claim I'm Azura and killed epi after they see my role and know that is not true?

Whatever, if people would like me not to go for a rezz, then I'll leave the game in peace and leave you to it. I don't know why people keep hassling me about wanting a rezz.

reywaS wrote:Obviously, I do not think the caps were necessary and I apologize to everyone else for having to suffer them. Golden is a very smart person, and I think he knows very well what I meant when I used the word motivation. He continues to misrepresent me, and he knows this.

Bullsuit.

If you can't find baddie reasons for it, it's because there are none. Prima facie, the conduct is not suspicious.

You have never explained what you meant by 'motivations', and I've brought it up plenty of times. It's nice that you've finally said what your intended meaning is after all this time. Now I will not 'misrepresent' and explanation you never previously made.

PS the easy way to not make people suffer all caps is to not use them.

I will be posting another legacy post shortly. I intend it to be the last post I make for now. Let me be very clear, my view of you is not a good one for you. I very much hope people will look at your posts very carefully and with a fine tooth comb after I am lynched.

LoRab wrote:

Golden wrote:Going back to voting me.

Clearly I was stupid to think, briefly, that this day would turn out differently.

Why?

I moved my vote off of you, and there's a whole 24 hours left. I don't know the vote count off hand, until the image of day 1 is posted, but I don't think you were very far ahead. Or that the sway of the thread was towards your direction.

I am confused.

LoRab, unfortunately polls don't always tell the full story. Five people are thoroughly determined to lynch me. I expect that some other people will add drive by votes. I think there is enough, I just really do. And even if there isn't, the fact that these five people absolutely refuse point blank to listen to any rebuttal means I just get lynched tomorrow. And by asking you to do something nice for me, I've only confirmed by 'emotional manipulation' in the eyes of some others.

I really do appreciate you doing it, though.

Honestly, I am going to try to get a rezz and even if I do take heat and people think it is a baddie rezz, at least I have a clean slate, which is what I really want at this point. (Well, that, and to prove a whole lot of people wrong).

Roxy wrote:also this is just antagonizing your accusers tbqh. I just do not get it.

I know. At the point I self-voted (both times) I believed there was no chance of me surviving this day. Honestly, there isn't. If I know I'm going to die, I may as well have fun with it. Maybe the baddies will enjoy it too? (Especially if one of them is DH!)

I've been enjoying this entire day period immensely so far.

Going back to voting me.

Clearly I was stupid to think, briefly, that this day would turn out differently.

Rey, I'm not going to engage in pedantry with you. I'm not going to talk about how weak all of my ideas are, how illegitimate you find my thought processes.

I already know there is nothing I could possibly say that will change your vote.

The only person who can change your mind on your vote is you. But you will not do it so long as you are intent on tunnelling into every sentence I say as some kind of grand idea with a million implications.

I will be voting for you today, unless I end up voting for me today. It's one or the other. So I imagine it will be in your interests to vote me. For that reason, it seems even less worth my time actually engaging with you on semantic points. It does me no good, and it would only serve to break my aura of calm that I feel today.

YOU ARE WRONG

But I think you are deliberately wrong because you are Azura.

There is no point in me trying to convince Azura not to vote for me.

Dom wrote:

Golden wrote:SVS, the killing of epi derailed the thread. Are you telling me that what has occurred would not be a desirable outcome?

Also, if my goal was to kill epi so as to minimise the amount of attention on me in the thread (which has to be the reason, right?) then why do I immediately go and say something that will inevitably immediately reinvite that attention?

See.... it is NOT desirable if you're bad.

That's my point. Do you still think I'm bad having caught up today?

Dom wrote:That's nice, and I appreciate your honesty here.
I truly think you are bad. I think you are cornered and have freaked out. You also lashed out at me, saying you agreed with "others" (nutella) about my posting. When I addressed this with you, I don't recall a response.
Why is that?
Did I miss it?

No

I do think your posting had been - keeping things close to your chest, I would call it. Which is what I think nutella was seeing. I wanted to draw more out of you. When I've directly asked you questions, you've answered them completely. So while I think nutella was accurate in describing your style of play, I don't find you suspicious. Earlier on, I couldn't gauge whether or not your suspicion of me was sincere. Now I believe it is.

Thank you, Lorab. No-one should feel they are obligated to give me a pass for a day, but my self-vote definitely came from a place of feeling helpless because it felt like I already had a whole bundle of guaranteed votes plus I wasn't going to be around to defend.

Plus, I've realised that I can turn this around by actually catching Azura, and my lynch is not necessarily inevitable, so now that's what I'm focussed on. If its someone like rey, and they are lynched and flip, it would then be obvious it isn't me killing epi.

I would ask those who are less inclined to feel absolutely certain of me, like lorab and timmer, to consider giving me a pass today given I won't be around a whole lot more for robust conversation and defence. I ask this because I get the strong sense that (because I won't be around) I'm going to be the easy location for drive by votes at end of day.

It's ultimately up to you guys, but if you really want to lynch me more on a hunch or being the 'best option' than anything else, I'd really like if it can be on a day where I can have proper conversation around it, more than I'll be able to today.