The Syndicate

insertnamehere wrote:that role list is a work of friggin' art

There was literally nothing about this game that was not. From start to finish, amazing.

In my opinion, LC and BR are the standard to which the rest of us aspire and fall short (although Epi and Rico get damn close).

I thought this WAS the sequel...

It was so epic.

Can't wait to get home to my pc to add this banner. It's awesome.

Also, @Draco - the reason I didn't entirely trust you is that you never targetted me for a quantum key. How did that work?

MacDougall wrote:I mean, Golden is responsible for me being dead ultimately. Dragging me into his ill advised hornets nest, exposing me to supposed confirmed doers of good of which 3 turned out bad and one of which killed me and then getting recruited after all his fuckery to coast to a win as a bad guy.

Golden you absolutely suck. I will pay you back for this.

It wasn't ill advised for me. I played it just right. Sometimes you gotta accept that the best way to survive in a game is not to worry if you are telling your secrets to civs or baddies. Thats how I felt anyway. Sorsha used me, and I never expected it would be her... but even with epi I never checked him. I took a leap of faith because I knew I had to exchange information for ME to win.

Sorsha wrote:Golden- I'm really surprised you didn't suspect me once sig and Epignosis were taken out like right after you and I met.

I already believed timmer bad. They die when he is on the square. Why did you need to be involved?

Yeah, it never occurred to me lol. You played me very well.

Dom wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

timmer wrote:

Epignosis wrote:
timmer was such a fail in chat that I knew he was bad. I was hoping sig and I would just pass by without much fuss.

Let's be clear, here. I was, hands down, the weak link in this baddie team. This isn't a poor me thing, I'm not looking for pity or reassurance lol, but I definitely felt the time constraints of my job and my family weighing on me, and my participation was atrocious. I'm on hiatus indefinitely now because of it, other than maybe the Game of Champions whenever that happens. I did what I could, but really, about half of the game was me coasting while using the tribunal to survive. It is what it is, but yeah, I wasn't exactly a supaciv!

Your existence distracted everyone from the reality of what was happening.

The fact that Golden survived that last night kill ... Had he died, the two civs would have lynched SVS with Dom. Dom would have killed one. What would have happened? Circle still wins that way right?

We planned Golden to survive. We used the Fleshstone thing to make sure Golden wouldn't even waste his NK protection. Golden targeted himself because we thought we could get Draconus to vote with us easier than splints.

It was also because Draco was a viable teammate for Dom. I was worried 'what happens if they lynch dom'. I wanted the obvious answer to be draco was circle, not golden was circle.

MacDougall wrote:but man he deserves to lose this game as a civ so bad.

Lucky I deserve to win it as circle, then, eh! I loved SVS post towards the end 'if its draco or splints, they deserve an oscar'.

The fact she didn't even mention me...

Sorsha wrote:Great game guys. Awesome team!



Can we just play this game again?

So true.

I waited 5 years for this game.

It delivered in every way.

@sorsha - from my perspective, your LD claim was the most solid. A judge would throw your interpretation out of court of all the LDs that came back true from baddies, that one still bothers me the most... but I'm glad I didn't catch you

timmer wrote:@SVS, to touch on the question of why we killed MM, there were two reasons, really. One, I forgot about his connection to you and stupidly voted you for about five minutes, and got caugh, so we knew MM would kill me that night. Second, we weighed several options in light of my impending death and it just made sense to take him out. Every scenario we thought up pointed to it being the right call (and thanks again to LC for a glorious double death scene! ). And SVS, you and Tranq played some outstanding endgame, we were sweating a lot!

To add to this... we needed to have some control over the numbers, and the other option was taking you out and creating an extra kill that we couldn't control. We just had to kill MM... there really was no choice.

Epignosis wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Black Rock wrote:If the civvies only voted for Dom. They would have had a chance. What a nail biting game. LC thought it would have been over a week ago, but the Circle got confident and made some mistakes. Such a close game. Well done all players.

I was really hoping Matt F would get to play his new role. That would have really fucked up the bad guys. You played an excellent game Matt, it was really fun hosting you.

To my dear Witherdeath friends, I was really rooting for you guys. Such bad luck for you guys.

Congrats to the winners, even if that includes Turnip Head. That's for picking on me in games.

I die for crazy reasons in your games. That why civilians lose.

We had the option of using the Obsidian Dagger and our usual night kill to either double tap Golden and save me from getting caught by his LD or to take you and sig out and try to recruit Dom.

It was close, we were ready to kill Golden but then I made a crappy LD statement that he fell for so we went with plan B. It was also amazing luck that timmer ended up on the same square as you and sig when you got the Star Gem. TH was able to track you and go for the kill to get the Gem after timmer killed sig.

timmer was such a fail in chat that I knew he was bad. I was hoping sig and I would just pass by without much fuss.

I tell you what. If the pair of you weren't dead, the team would have made a big mistake recruiting me too.

They were lucky that all of my attachments were gone except for Sorsha.

So, HBoy recruited me without any btsc with his team...

He never knew the golden rule... you NEVER recruit civ golden, should you want your team to win. You never know if I will take you down from within.

But then they had sorsha, and I felt better since she was my buddy and she pulled the wool over my eyes good. I felt she deserved to win, so I fought for them.

The LD that sorsha got me with was dubious, but I brought it on myself. Early on in the game, I asked LC if he would take btsc into account in assessing my lies, and he said he would. So, Sorsha was able to craft a lie... 'I would be happy for a civ or indy to be lynched today'. LC took it as "I would be happy for the civ (canuck) or baddie (juliets) who were actually lynch options to be lynched today." and he could do it easily, because sorsha had discussed that meaning with her team in btsc, and knew for a fact that juliets was bad (thanks to epi having sent a check to HB).

The circle also got very lucky with their timing.. I had caught TH, timmer and dom red handed, and was about to declare in the thread that all three of them were bad and that bass was civ. I immediately had to change direction.

@Matt - sorry man. I knew you were civ. If I wasn't recruited, I would have defended you to the hilt. I think the civs would have had that game if not for the recruit. Thats the breaks.

fingersplints wrote:One thing that I really don't like about the plan Golden suggested is that we now have basically guaranteed the baddies are going to kill me tonight as he has announced everyone else is either protected or unable to be killed. So hope they don't find me now :/

linki: I was just joking about the Golden thing. I don't have any reason to believe him, so if I am wrong I'd just give up trying to read him. Don't think I am.
I've proved myself to several this game. The civvies know who I am

Thats why I asked splints, I may be wrong but I figured they would already literally have to be with you, not have a chance to find you. As far as the kill goes, I would have thought they are where they are and have to kill from there.

fingersplints wrote:Wait, what if some of us have + in the poll if golden and SVS have -1. :/

I'm sure they could say so.

OK, here is the thing...

I have an item, the blue quartz, which can protect one person from one nightkill.

I was intending to use it on me if needs be, but if SVS was successfully lynched and turned out to be the final cabal, I could use it on draco. If splints is hidden away with noone in her square, I think I can guarantee all three of us make it to tomorrow to lynch Dom.

Also, because of the way I voted yesterday on the poll, I have -1 votes, so that means so did SVS, and I don't know if anyone else does as well.

I don't want to speak too soon, but if it really does play out this way then... I can't believe we did it, civs. I had fair lost all hope a couple of days ago, but I believe!

@LC - can killers double target nightkills?

Also, does anyone have the results of last nights poll? I would like to know if anyone voted the same way I did.

SVS - you and tranq have been working so hard for so long, while maintaining this veneer of "SVS doesn't mind losing and feels the game is hopeless". I cannot trust that you have no tricks up your sleeve, and I certainly don't trust that you won't try to kill me tonight.

I mean no offence by this - but I have a lot of respect for and experience of your game and I'm not going to let my guard down for a second. You and tranq have really scrambled this game, and I don't trust your assurance of no kill at all at this point, any more than I trust the plot to 'lynch SVS as the last baddie'.

I put some thought overnight into which of SVS and Dom I would prefer to vote today.

I could be swayed in either direction, but I did feel the better solution was SVS, for a number of reasons...

1) I think she is the most absolutely bad, and I don't think we can risk any mislynches at this point.
2) I am worried it took three cabal to get her off the poll yesterday, so its possible someone here is still her teammate (although I struggle to see who... given as far as I'm aware the rest of us all voted against tranq yesterday, it seems she is probably the last... but I get paranoid).
3) I can't remember what else I had, but there was a third reason for me rationalising it out that way. Sorry, it's late, but I'll probably remember tomorrow.

Anyway, I'll add my vote to the votes for SVS. I'm happy it is going that way anyway.

I'm up for 24 hour days if thats still a thing on offer.

Sad to see I was targetted for death, but not surprised I survived it.

PS - I was telling Long Con that I've been trying to follow Matt's breadcrumbs and find the spirit oracle since he said it helped the civs. But I haven't succeeded, despite my efforts. I just love the shout out in that post, though, to me trying to take up Matt's epic quest - kind of awesome, LC.

Thank you, whoever voted with me (I can't see the poll) for keeping the faith and going through with it.

Oh, I figure if Dr Dre dies he just gets to rezz as his own zombie, so Tranq 1.0 was probably Dr Dre, that explains it

Thank you everyone for listening to me I was so certain that the cabal was not only down to one. It needed to be proved. The idea of tranq and SVS doing some deal where one was a civ and only cared about taking down the circle...

Well played but I'm actually glad it was a lie. The idea that it was the truth that SVS was a civ and not willing to play ball with the civs had made me a little upset and stressed, because I'd begun to believe it might be true. I feel much better about the game this way, even if we can't get the civs over the line.

But now I'm feeling more positive about our odds again.

I have been saying for days the Cabal is not down to one. The fact SVS was off the poll suggests to me that there are two more...

Tranq - you were an utterly formidable opponent. I'd prefer to beat you, but if you and your team win it will be completely deserved.

fingersplints wrote:

Golden wrote:I just caught up for a little and realised... the voting is in part based on emotion. It makes me sad.

I didn't really realised how much of that was in it, but I'm just asking for your trust for one day. I fear if we don't take out tranq now it's game over. If tranq dies today and a team is actually ended, then I'll vote for dom with anyone else tomorrow, I will give my promise.

We will see what Dom's reason for continuing suspecting me is. You don't find it all weird that he can't give a reason why he suspects one of his two suspects this game?

I find Dom very weird. I find SVS very weird as well. Based just on what is going on in the thread, I'd think those two are most likely to be bad. I don't really get why dom suspects you and I would also like to see a reason.

But for me, right now, this isn't about gut instinct on individual people. I genuinely fear the game is over if tranq is not lynched today, civs lose. I might be wrong, but I just really don't want to take the risk. At the very least, I'm sure tranq and dom are not on the same team. I'm sure tranq will come back bad. Whatever he comes back as, and whether or not his team is eliminated, I think this gives us a lot more context on who is the best lynch for the next day - it may point to SVS being more likely good (if tranq is cabal), it may point to dom being more likely good (if tranq is circle).

Actually, I don't know that I would keep that promise, so I take it back.

I just really feel like not lynching tranq today would be a game-ending move, and I think because I'm life-stressed any way I'm emotive about it.

I don't want to come this far just to have the town lose.

I just caught up for a little and realised... the voting is in part based on emotion. It makes me sad.

I didn't really realised how much of that was in it, but I'm just asking for your trust for one day. I fear if we don't take out tranq now it's game over. If tranq dies today and a team is actually ended, then I'll vote for dom with anyone else tomorrow, I will give my promise.

And SVS, if you are the last cabal member, then tranq is circle. So, you would also get your vengeance.

I feel like I've tried so hard this game just to see the civs go down in flames. I know I'm responsible for a lot of the fuck up. I got blinded by numbers and stuff. Please, though, help me fix it.

I was hoping the day would be over.

I was hoping tranq would be lynched

I haven't read the thread back. If it's Dom, I guess it's Dom. But today, I am not going to follow.

Tranq IS bad. Dom may be bad.

I hate that I am not around. The moment I'm not around for a day, people get persuaded. Tranq is a very good persuader. He persuaded me yesterday.

Today is lylo. I am absolutely absolutely convinced and certain that if we do not lynch tranq today, CABAL WIN.

It is as stark as that for me. There is no changing my mind. Splints, I really deeply hope you will listen. SVS, if you are genuinely good, I hope you will too. I have believed for good reason for a very long time that Cabal are not down to one person... I've kept trying to push that but people aren't listening.

WE HAVE TO LYNCH TRANQ

Please, please, please, please just listen and lynch.

Draconus wrote:Quad post!!

@Host - I'm okay with going to 24 hour days now if Golden is. I thought today would require more discussion

Me too. Sorry, this is my only post today. About to head down to the parents for Christmas, but I have nothing else to add but what I have anyway.

Tranq wrote:Golden, you're wrong. I suggest you re-evaluate your thoughts before jumping the gun. You'll single-handedly be responsible for a civ loss if you lynch me today

Tranq, there is nothing you could say or do under the sun to convince me that this is the truth.

I am absolutely certain that I will be single-handedly responsible for a civ loss if I listen to any more of your bullshit.

Yesterday should have been tranq vs SVS and somehow we lynched LoRab. I'll put my hand up and take my part in the responsibility for that, but I was stupid.

There is no chance today that I will do anything but vote tranq. I would vote tranq a million times if I could. Even if SVS was on the poll, I would.

Goodbye, tranq.

Draconus - its on the line here for you. If you vote with tranq, instead of voting for him, then I know you are on his team.

thinking on it more... SVS could still be cabal and tranq could be circle. Whatever. Tranq is either decieving SVS, or decieving us, or decieving everyone. He is certainly, though, absolutely, certainly, the right person to lynch today.

I knew it yesterday. I even knew it the day before. Dammit, I should have been shouting the house down.

With any luck we still have a chance.

I won't be back again till near end of day, if at all. Tomorrow is a write off for me. This is it. Please, please, please trust me.

Tranq

I'm disappointed in you.

Very disappointed.

Very very very disappointed.

I came into this day intending to vote SVS. But for all I know she isn't even bad. Actually, you know what I think this plot is? I think it is that SVS isn't even bad... and she has been honest about the fact she is ok losing to see circle win. But it's not the civs she is going to hand the win. It's the cabal. It's you.

Oh, you've been so clever with your words. So, so, clever. But not clever enough... not clever enough.

*vote tranq*

I should have stuck to my guns on this yesterday, but I finally have you. You are cabal. I am very afraid there is nothing I can do to stop you winning. I've been afraid of that for a while now. But I HAVE TO TRY

PS - I didn't even know SVS wasnt on the poll when I made this post. It wouldn't have mattered. I would have voted for you anyway.

EVERY CIV LEFT IN THIS GAME, ANY CIRCLE MEMBERS OUT THERE. LYNCHING TRANQ IS OUR ONLY HOPE. PLEASE< EVERYONE< LISTEN TO ME AND DO IT.
And there is not even the slightest chance my vote will change.

I can't agree to 24 hour days, sorry. Today and tomorrow I am so ridiculously flat out, that my participation in the next day phase would probably amount to not much more than a vote. It may not anyway, but I'd at least like to have the possibility of being a bit involved.

I could probably go to 24 hour days the day after, assuming the game is still going.

Draconus wrote:Golden, did Lorab's role flip surprise you? Or did you have her pegged as that role?

That is the role I guessed she was. I also thought there was a chance of cursecrafter and a very outside chance of Dr Dre.

The one thing I feel certain about is that scrippleskitz has gone. This is based on the roles LC has mentioned in various posts (I'm sure these people are alive) plus the roles I know for sure. There wasn't enough space on the roster for scrip to still be alive.

Sorsha and Dom sucked up...

I just voted for the truth.



(but Canada is a close second)

Tranq wrote:Here's hoping LoRab isn't Scrippleskitz.

She was never scrippleskitz.

But I don't care what f-ing role she is. She better be bad.

OK, I switched to LoRab.

I don't understand why everyone else wants to keep alive someone I think is virtually a confirmed baddie, but whatever. I did agree at the start of the day that it was important to get on the same page.

If in switching I just lost the games for the civs and Tranq and SVS are some Cabal team together, I will be extremely unhappy.

Dom vote for me, apparently

I would get home from work to discover I have ten minutes to make this call... and the lynch hinges on me.

Tranq wrote:Golden, i think you should consider changing your vote

Why?

fingersplints wrote:

Tranq wrote:

fingersplints wrote:I'm voting SVS., but Lorab is making me more and more suspicious with every post.

I think you should consider changing your vote.

If golden does I will

Do you think its the best move, splints?

LoRab wrote:

Golden wrote:

Draconus wrote:Golden and Sorsha, I'm sure you're right about SVS. Hypothetical: After lynching her, who would you vote for, and in what order (assuming there are 2 or 3 baddies left)?

Assuming SVS was the last of her kind, at this specific point, I think I would probably choose to lynch LoRab. Who came next would depend on if LoRab is actually bad or not (and if there is more than one baddie at that point) but Tranq, you, and probably Dom would be the options on the table for me. If SVS was not bad or the last cabal, I'd probably lynch Tranq next.

Why do you feel that confident that I'm bad?

I don't. I'm only confident about one person. That's why I'm pushing for the outcome we can be sure of instead of the one we can't.

But Draconus asked me what would be next based just on where things are at now. It is really very contingent on what the deal is with SVS. And in reality, it will depend on things like more isos etc... I haven't read back on you at all, because today the time I have had spare has been focussed on figuring out what I think about the tranq/SVS situation. I focussed my efforts that way because of how sure I am that one of them tried to kill splints.

Draconus wrote:Golden and Sorsha, I'm sure you're right about SVS. Hypothetical: After lynching her, who would you vote for, and in what order (assuming there are 2 or 3 baddies left)?

Assuming SVS was the last of her kind, at this specific point, I think I would probably choose to lynch LoRab. Who came next would depend on if LoRab is actually bad or not (and if there is more than one baddie at that point) but Tranq, you, and probably Dom would be the options on the table for me. If SVS was not bad or the last cabal, I'd probably lynch Tranq next.

Draconus wrote:Well, Golden, I think one plan of the baddies is certain. They've sought to divide the remaining civs on which way to vote and who to trust, and I think they have succeeded.

I agree. The problem is figuring out who is responsible.

One of the reasons I put you below Dom. Your support of tranq makes me paranoid you are!

I wish I understood where SVS head is at. She has never outright said tranq is lying... she even told dom to ask TH if she would make the kind of plan that tranq said she did (implying tranq was telling the truth).

SVS says we will all just think 'trickster' when we see her reveal, but I won't feel certain of anything on any lynch unless we see an affiliation or the end of a team announced.

SVS is certainly good at making me paranoid.

Add to it this...

If I was SVS... and yes, I know SVS and I don't think the same... but if I was SVS... and tranq was lying about this 'deal'.

I'd be ripping down the door to vote tranq and get everyone else on board right now.

I mean, I've said this over and over, but maybe people don't understand it yet.

I have objective reason to trust every single person in the game. By my account, there should be no baddies left and the civs should have won.

Except there are. Two teams are still alive.

So, all I can do is measure the weight of evidence and try and figure out where I've gone wrong. I feel like I'm less likely to have gone wrong with Dom. This isn't like a scale of massive degrees or anything. It's just my feelings on a page.

Draconus wrote:Golden, I do see what you're saying and I understand your reasoning. Like I said, I'm torn. What are your thoughts/feelings on a Dom lynch, atm?

I do currently have what I'd call my 'order of trust' and it looks like this:

Splints
Sorsha
Dom
Draco
LoRab
Tranq/SVS (flip flopping on these two)

At this point, I'm ruling some connections out. Is tranq or SVS on a team with dom or LoRab? I doubt it. But mostly I'm at the point where more or less anyone could be on any team.

But I'm really not on board for either of them today. I'd probably be on board tomorrow, but frankly either tranq is honest and SVS has admitted straight up to being bad, or tranq is a lying baddie. I'm also sure one of them did attempt to kill splints. I have to vote for evidence over gut.

@Tranq - I did an iso. I mean, its ambiguous. A bus of luke here, a possible save attempt on juliets there. I guess I could see it if something really went wrong.

I'll be honest, your conversation today does somewhat make me feel better about you and make me think you do, at least, have a rational explanation for your motivations. I don't know really how strong or likely your reasoning for cabal being down to one is. I don't know how strong or likely your reasoning for circle having more than one is (I do see, however, that our feelings on this are probably somewhat opposite because of the same role).

I don't, however, share your opinion that there are better baddies to keep around. I'd soonest take out the person I am most sure is a baddie. I understand your point about using SVS to kill circle, but she 1) has to have the target correct and 2) has to kill them. If I'm right about LoRab's role, then I don't think there is any guarantee she is easier to NK than dom and, in fact, I think you weren't wise spilling that as the plan.

I'm shifting my vote to SVS - because tranq has done enough here for me to at least trust him somewhat.

Is your reason for believing Occam's Razor is wrong something you are taking on faith/trust/hope? Or do you feel there is objective evidence that points to this. I guess something Chaos Wizardy could do it.

Timmer's death may be unexplained, but it makes rational sense that the golem would choose to kill him.

And why do you think the Cabal killed one of their own? Manipulation?

Tranq wrote:Based on a post i made Day 9 + looking at the voting records. SVS didn't confirm it if that's what you're asking

Well I just read your posts on Day 9 and... they could go either way, but you did expressly state you didn't think the person was cabal and if they were bad they would be circle, so...

In fact, I believe the Cabal killed the puppet master... which is why I believe that role was on the circle team.

Tranq wrote:I know my assumption of TH being the Puppet Master was revealed to be wrong when he flipped. You should know who and what i mean with that.

I do. I feel that role is bad and have for a long time. But I have no reason to slot them in to one team over the other. Why do you?