The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote: My least favourite mechanic is vanilla civilians.

Lol heaven forefend a townie need to just analyse the game to find bad guys.

I do that all the time...

But having some kind of role power is fun, even if it doesn't help you analyse the game. I'm seen too many vanilla civilians not engage. I mean, I've seen plenty of people with role powers not engage too. It works both ways. But I understand why a vanilla townie doesn't engage in a game that is role power heavy.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:if you build it, they will come.

If I ever begin manufacturing sex toys, this will be my logo.

What are the chances that you will begin manufacturing sex toys?

And yet, G-Man, recruitment mafia was voted in the top two last time there was a round of voting on full games...

It's all contextual. There is a big difference between a game designed around rezz and recruitment, and an incidental one.

(And anyway, I design the games I want to host... if you build it, they will come.)

I think I lean slightly anti-town on rezz generically, although it becomes strongly pro-town if the roles are open, there is clearly a civ rezzer, and the role rezzed is a confirmed civ.

If a mafia team rezzes, they get an extra number... either (confirmed baddie) an extra lynch day or (non-confirmed baddie or civ or confirmed civ) an extra resource outright.

If a civilian rezz happens, even on a confirmed civ, there will still be doubt about whether the person is still civ or not (ie have they been rezzed bad), so it really only favours town when there is sufficient information to presume the rezz is civ-motivated.

And you also need another chart "Pro-casual" and "anti-casual", because my favourite thing about non-changeable votes is when I don't have to check in 5 minutes before lynch to know I'm not being lynched.

In that sense, I think changeable votes are among my least favourite mechanics... even though I value their strategic worth.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Has The Syndicate ever had a game with hammer voting?

I think at least one recent heist may have? I don't ever recall experiencing one on TS or original sites like RM/TP/STV, before the champions game/RYM influence appeared.

You make good points on the two mafia teams thing. The second point is good, although there is still room for insincere reads on your own teammates. But the first one is fairly crucial. It's kind of pro-mafia, but anti-anyspecificsinglemafiateam.

One thing around complex mechanics that I think plays into pro-town anti-town is overall solvability. Like, not merely role-checking roles but also mechanics that allow civilians to learn some things about wtf is going on, vs the game being intentionally and unresolvably chaotic.

What about non-role-related mechanics? Triggered events, prizes, contests, night polls? What about Day zero or night zero?

Jay, I'm not sure if I disagree with anything on the list (I'd have to think deeply) but I do think the point of your chart is it is helpful to create balance, and thats a good thing.

For example, "Open setup role-heavy" is potentially balanced by "only living townies win".

Actually, thinking deeply, I might disagree that 'multiple mafia teams' is slightly anti-town. I'd call that more null, as it potentially increases the number of baddies but also increases the likelihood that baddies will nk or cast lynch votes for other baddies.

I guess that, in a "Syndicate" world, your descriptions of 'role-heavy' and 'complex game mechanics' are probably overly simplistic.

One thing I've learned in game design is how easy it is to overpower the baddies. West Wing was the best lesson for me, because I've now run it twice and the Republicans have won both times... despite on paper me always worrying that I've weighted it slightly too far towards the civs. In the recent RYM running of it, they lost the role I think was their most important balance wise to lynch day one, and they never lost another soul. Sometimes as a baddie, I think you can get a confirmation bias that if you lost, your team was underpowered. I have had one game where a baddie team felt upset at their balance and voiced it to me but I knew (behind the scenes) the number of things which just hadn't gone their way which could have completely turned the game in their favour.

I don't dislike info roles at all, for reasons others have said. I can have the role and compensate for it in design. Ideally in such cases I do it in open set ups where even the info role should be able to read the roles and recognise the limitations of their role. Having said that, in all my experience of being an info role I've recognised that my info might be false but I've still rolled with it, thinking that it is my best approach to success and it usually works out for me. I think the biggest balance on an info role is this... make it too obvious you are one, and you get nightkilled. I was able to win Economics only by determining who the info roles were and taking them out.

Ultimately, this isn't a game mechanic, but one of my least favourite things is when baddie teams are genuinely overpowered. I am impressed with those hosts (I can think of some) who seem to manage to consistently make well balanced games.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Elsewhere, people will be quick to tell you the reason you are not allowing role claiming is that you are a lazy host who could not balance your game the proper way and is trying to hide that by removing a fundemanetal mechanic from mafia.

Elsewhere, people like to be stuck in their own ways.

The assumption that any choice of mechanic is a lazy choice is, well, a lazy assumption.

Epignosis wrote:Another, somewhat related one, is a secret simultaneous resurrection and recruitment to the Mafia, a civilian getting resurrected to the Mafia's team. Such a player almost certainly won't be lynched, and it makes for an easy victory for the Mafia.

Thats interesting. Back in my RM days, rezzed players were viewed as inherently suspicious and were often lynched because, I guess, this mechanic was potentially common enough? I always take the view 'never trust a rezzed civilian'.

My least favourite mechanic is vanilla civilians.