The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Soneji wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Long Con: faced with significant EOD pressure, he's here, he's firing off retorts.

Quin: faced with significant EOD pressure, he's here, he's firing off retorts.

Soneji: faced with significant EOD pressure, he's here, he's making a few posts per hour and seems behind the pace.

Soneji, whose been behind and has been trying to catch up while also replying to the current going ons, is surprisingly behind the pace. That is some great detective work there JJJ

Why are you trying to catch up in the middle of an EOD sequence which is quite possibly about to result in your death?

You talked about the last several hours. I haven't looked at anything but current events for over the past hour. If you're thinking I'm somehow behind the pace now, then again we differ on definitions. I've been here responding.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Long Con: faced with significant EOD pressure, he's here, he's firing off retorts.

Quin: faced with significant EOD pressure, he's here, he's firing off retorts.

Soneji: faced with significant EOD pressure, he's here, he's making a few posts per hour and seems behind the pace.

Soneji, whose been behind and has been trying to catch up while also replying to the current going ons, is surprisingly behind the pace. That is some great detective work there JJJ

speedchuck wrote: Soneji has incriminating reactions with the dead scum guy, Marmot. And man, those gut feels.
.

JJJ somehow twisted me responding to INH's map talk to me agreeing with INH on just Golden and JJJ being potentially suspicious, which was based on INH voting MM himself to get the map. Never went anywhere because in that same response I plainly stated that I doubt any location on the map was specifically favorable to one faction.

Holy hell, what kind of vote hopping fuckery is this. LC has straight up lied about his night actions and has now on multiple occasions just deflected suspicion by claiming his accuser hasn't caught any scum.

At least I'm around this time when people lynch me for bullshit reasons.

Long Con wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Long Con wrote:Like, what baddies have YOU lynched?

Long Con wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:VOTE LYNCH DYSLEXICON

I appreciate this.

Such RAWR.
Was probably not going to stick with my vote anyway, and I think this comes off more genuine than not.
One question though: Did you go through my whole ISO, as in, did you read every post?

Lynch LC

^If I'm to stick with early meta gut similar to my Sig gut.

And you can look forward to similar results. Perhaps the Sig results pleased you?

GREAT POINT SONEJI

It shows a history of using others lack of success at lynching mafia as a means to try and deflect suspicion.

Long Con wrote:Like, what baddies have YOU lynched?

Long Con wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:VOTE LYNCH DYSLEXICON

I appreciate this.

Such RAWR.
Was probably not going to stick with my vote anyway, and I think this comes off more genuine than not.
One question though: Did you go through my whole ISO, as in, did you read every post?

Lynch LC

^If I'm to stick with early meta gut similar to my Sig gut.

And you can look forward to similar results. Perhaps the Sig results pleased you?

speedchuck wrote:Would prefer Soneji lynch to Long Con lynch. Happy where I am. You guys can get the three votes to lynch LC without me.

I don't like how quickly the LC lynch is building at all, but...
I have homework to do right this second. I'll keep up, if dire questions must be asked.

By all means, do join me on Soneji in the next hour and have a beer with me, though. It's a much more fun lynch than Long Con.

What makes it better for you? Is it the Slooneji?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Not a single player has opposed a Soneji lynch at any juncture of this day other than Soneji himself, while we're worrying about the development of wagons.

Fredwood wrote:

speedchuck wrote:Would prefer Soneji lynch to Long Con lynch. Happy where I am. You guys can get the three votes to lynch LC without me.

I don't like how quickly the LC lynch is building at all, but...
I have homework to do right this second. I'll keep up, if dire questions must be asked.

By all means, do join me on Soneji in the next hour and have a beer with me, though. It's a much more fun lynch than Long Con.

Basically we're deciding between, how does LC's power work, is there redundant power roles, or who even likes Soneji anyway.

Scotty wrote:

juliets wrote:I'm going to

UNVOTE

VOTE Long Con

This is why I think we should stay on soneji.

I don't trust juliets right now

We're awfully close to someone trying a sneak hammer

If you think both Juliets and I are scum, whose exactly going to sneak a hammer that takes three more votes?

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote:@speed - what bothers you mechanically about my claim?

Watching every night.

Pretty much every other town role has been limited in some way. For you to claim just watcher (which came up before the trend of limited power was fully apparent) gives me balance issues that I discussed earlier with JJJ. I am sure that you are a watcher, but I'm worried that it might be a mafia watcher because of the power imbalance. Call it paranoia, as I'm still relying on my read over mech stuff.

JJJ is a three-shot tracker. Golden being an unlimited town Watcher would be nearly impossible with that kind of balance, as Watchers>>>Trackers. A Watcher can catch multiple people targeting someone and only has to aim for suspected targets of the NK, while a tracker not only has to have a correct mafia read but also hope that that mafia is making the faction kill that night.

Soneji wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Also, I'm not a dumb player. I don't obv-slip like that if scum. It would be me pretending to be town that fake slipped to emulate my town game.

Would expect more from Golden. "A great catch", really? Glaringly ovbious and classic I'd say.

Anyways, people are biting. Rawr.

When does day end?

So you're taking the route of "it was bait". This is generally the most desperate reaction to being caught slipping. I've seen intelligent people make slip-ups as bad or worse than what you look to have.

The "I guess I don't fit in here" post also seems like playing the victim to me. Dys has provided the links to the games he was talking about which I'll look into when I can, since I'm pretty much out of time for the moment. I can see the value in reaction fishing but when you do it for something that townies will react strongly to as well, it muddies the waters.

Soneji wrote:Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

Soneji wrote:It wouldn't be a brilliant scum play as there is no true benefit for Dys in doing it, while it had a strong chance of getting them lynched with the hammer vote in place. Let's be clear that Dys is not getting town cred for his fake slip, proving that it was just that only removes him from the obvious lynch pile.

Soneji wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote:It wouldn't be a brilliant scum play as there is no true benefit for Dys in doing it, while it had a strong chance of getting them lynched with the hammer vote in place. Let's be clear that Dys is not getting town cred for his fake slip, proving that it was just that only removes him from the obvious lynch pile.

He got plenty of town cred from you. You're convinced he's town since he did it a month ago.

Are you seriously arguing that getting instant town cred by saying, "hey look at this link guys, I do this when I am town," isn't a true benefit to a mafioso?

wat

"Let's be clear, Dizzy isn't town for this."
"No, you're convinced he's town. I don't like your reasoning for being convinced he's town. I'm going to vote you for your silly reasoning."

Perhaps I should follow more of this argument, but dang SL, you almost made me switch my vote off of Strawhenge with that reasoning. Is there a post that Soneji makes that argues Dizzy as looking towny?

He is confusing me saying that the argument that Dys legit slilled is pretty much null and void as me giving Dys town cred. Dys can be still be scum and faking his town meta with that fake slip, it is just not an angle that I think is worth pursuing.

A lot of people confuse convoluted with brilliant.

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:That latter post of Soneji is not something I like. It's shutting down opposition to something that by all rights should be discussed until everyone's sick of talking about it.

Says the queen of tinfoil.

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:That latter post of Soneji is not something I like. It's shutting down opposition to something that by all rights should be discussed until everyone's sick of talking about it.

Says the queen of tinfoil.

i do not know what relevance tinfoil as a concept has to my post, so this just feels like you're discrediting me.

Besides, I never tinfoil.

It was a joke Quin.

As for your argument about Dys being scummy due to how he followed up his fake slip, with the reads he gave and hiw he gave them, that is a valid avenue of discussion. The only thing I was saying is that the argument that Dys is scum based on him knowledge slipping is pretty much off the table. Questioning his follow-up or motivation for trying that tactic here is well within bounds.

Soneji wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote: Given you had read the thread through this far and should know that I'd explained at least part of my rationale for why I hadn't voted yet - how do you come to a legitimate vote for me later?

I have no real excuse. The first post was part of a quick 12-page skim, the second was a post just looking at the immediate reaction to the 'scumslip'.
Part of the reason I lost interest so quickly in that vote.

Silver Lantern wrote:

speedchuck wrote: Perhaps I should follow more of this argument, but dang SL, you almost made me switch my vote off of Strawhenge with that reasoning. Is there a post that Soneji makes that argues Dizzy as looking towny?

Yes.

Soneji wrote: Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

Filler.

Is that second post supposed to be confirming Dizzy as town? Because I read it as confirming that this play wasn't a scumslip. (No idea what you mean by 'filler').
This doesn't do it for me.

I think he is salty that I said one of his posts might be a "filler" post by mafia, one that seems like it is contributing but has little of actual value.

The irony for me in all of this is that he suspects me in part for thinking I townread someone, when in the GoC game I got lynched partly due to my meta of not doing townreads period. I don't even let myself think of people in terms of them being town, outsidd of mechanical clearance where some healthy skepticism remains.

Soneji wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote: Given you had read the thread through this far and should know that I'd explained at least part of my rationale for why I hadn't voted yet - how do you come to a legitimate vote for me later?

I have no real excuse. The first post was part of a quick 12-page skim, the second was a post just looking at the immediate reaction to the 'scumslip'.
Part of the reason I lost interest so quickly in that vote.

Silver Lantern wrote:

speedchuck wrote: Perhaps I should follow more of this argument, but dang SL, you almost made me switch my vote off of Strawhenge with that reasoning. Is there a post that Soneji makes that argues Dizzy as looking towny?

Yes.

Soneji wrote: Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

Filler.

Is that second post supposed to be confirming Dizzy as town? Because I read it as confirming that this play wasn't a scumslip. (No idea what you mean by 'filler').
This doesn't do it for me.

I think he is salty that I said one of his posts might be a "filler" post by mafia, one that seems like it is contributing but has little of actual value.

The irony for me in all of this is that he suspects me in part for thinking I townread someone, when in the GoC game I got lynched partly due to my meta of not doing townreads period. I don't even let myself think of people in terms of them being town, outsidd of mechanical clearance where some healthy skepticism remains.

"That's my secret Captain, I'm always angry..."

Heh, in my home site if your post isn't atleast 10 characters it won't post, so when we post something short, like "no" we tend to follow up with "fills," or "filler."

I am not voting for you cause I am salty (which I always am btw), I am voting for you because you're making silly arguments like saying that something which can give town rep is not a benefit to a mafioso, and therefore not a good play.

The silly argument is that saying the amount of towncred that might be achievable with what Dys pulled is worth the high possibility of getting lynched, especially when hammer rules are in play.

I haven't seen a single person give actual town cred to Dys. Several people are still voting for Dys based on it and others like myself and Golden have outright stated that Dys should not get towncred.

Silly arguments are not exactly mafia motivated arguments though, which is why I'm not voting you. What I don't understand is that if you are so convinced of the probability of a mafia Dys posting a fake slip to gain town cred, why aren't you voting Dys?

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:That latter post of Soneji is not something I like. It's shutting down opposition to something that by all rights should be discussed until everyone's sick of talking about it.

Says the queen of tinfoil.

i do not know what relevance tinfoil as a concept has to my post, so this just feels like you're discrediting me.

Besides, I never tinfoil.

It was a joke Quin.

As for your argument about Dys being scummy due to how he followed up his fake slip, with the reads he gave and hiw he gave them, that is a valid avenue of discussion. The only thing I was saying is that the argument that Dys is scum based on him knowledge slipping is pretty much off the table. Questioning his follow-up or motivation for trying that tactic here is well within bounds.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I think that her reads based on people's reactions to the fakeslip look okay. But she also mentioned that she had three scum-reads in the same post, and when pressed about it, she denied having any - adding to that, I'm pretty sure she expressed independent suspicion of Golden before that as well.


Is Dys male or female? I'm seeing his's and her's thrown around a lot.

I don't see anything bizarre about mentioning reads that don't exist in the same post that has a fake knowledge slip. Just seems like it was part of baiting reactions.

I don't understand the mindset of trickster types

Soneji wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote: The silly argument is that saying the amount of towncred that might be achievable with what Dys pulled is worth the high possibility of getting lynched, especially when hammer rules are in play.

I haven't seen a single person give actual town cred to Dys. Several people are still voting for Dys based on it and others like myself and Golden have outright stated that Dys should not get towncred.

Silly arguments are not exactly mafia motivated arguments though, which is why I'm not voting you. What I don't understand is that if you are so convinced of the probability of a mafia Dys posting a fake slip to gain town cred, why aren't you voting Dys?

Please quote where I stated that I am convinced that Dys is mafia and did it to gain town cred.

I'll wait, while you fabricate another silly argument.

You are certainly convinced that the probability that Dys would do it for town cred is high and have posted rather clear suspicion on multiple occasions, alongside your own suspicion on my argument against it being a smart play. Multiquoting is too much of a pain on my phone and anyone who checks your post history can see the posts I have referenced.

I have to wonder what mafia motivation I have to argue against the idea that what Dys did is a good play? Do you think I'm scummates with Dys?

This whole fabricating argument thing is getting a bit old.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/infer

One of the most important words to know in the game of mafia. Learn it.

I think we understand the word nonchalant differently, to say the least.

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What's the tally looking like? I might be coming back around on believing with all my heart that Long Con is bad.

Lots of people think Quin and I are bad. Around 4 each I think at this point.

Is Long Con your teammate?

I don't know LC's alignment, only my own. I would be inclined to vote for him over Quin, as he has pinged me several times to Quin's zero.

Quin has done absolutely nothing that you've found suspicious in this game?

The Sorcha stuff early was some weird tinfoil but no real hard ping. I'm still not caught up but as of now, nothing has really struck me as particularly scummy with Quin.

I find this hard to believe coming from a guy who never town reads anybody.

That is twisting my meta. That I don't town read people doesn't mean I will have specific suspicions on every player throughout the game. All it means is that I pretty much don't allow myself to view others as town, taking a cold, calculative approach to the game.

Whereas your reads would look like:

Town:

Player A
Player D
Player I

Slight town:

Player G

Mafia:

Player B
Player V
Player Y

Mine would be like:

Slight scum read:

Player C
Player F

Moderate scum read:

Player M

Hard scum read:

Player T
Player W


In essence quite similar, just a different mindset.

Sloonei wrote:I've read Soneji's and Fredwood's posts. Fredwood looks good. Soneji looks like a big shrug. I agree with Jay that his spinning of a suspicion against Fredwood has the potential of a scum player pursuing a low hanging fruit case while avoiding heavier scrutiny by getting involved in any of the more central issues. There are a lot of things which Soneji has said absolutely nothing about in this game. He appears to have been active on Day 1 but then fell behind. I don't fault him for that, but it provides an uninspiring history of activity in this game.

I also felt like his treatment of Dyslexicon on Day 1 was first angling to suspect him, and then later a begrudging acceptance that the slip itself was not suspicious while refusing to relinquish his general suspicion against Dizzy. I did not like it.

Fredwood looks like a townie who is trying to get his feet under him in a foreign environment.

I did suspect him, though I don't see why you would call my posts a begrudging acceptance of it. I never stated any suspicion of Dizzy after reading his evidence, only argued against Silver claiming that I was town reading Dizzy.

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What's the tally looking like? I might be coming back around on believing with all my heart that Long Con is bad.

Lots of people think Quin and I are bad. Around 4 each I think at this point.

Is Long Con your teammate?

I don't know LC's alignment, only my own. I would be inclined to vote for him over Quin, as he has pinged me several times to Quin's zero.

Quin has done absolutely nothing that you've found suspicious in this game?

The Sorcha stuff early was some weird tinfoil but no real hard ping. I'm still not caught up but as of now, nothing has really struck me as particularly scummy with Quin.

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What's the tally looking like? I might be coming back around on believing with all my heart that Long Con is bad.

Lots of people think Quin and I are bad. Around 4 each I think at this point.

I'm not your teammate. I suggested a CFD on you.

You do you Quin. If I have to I'll vote you to save myself this phase but I'd prefer not to.

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What's the tally looking like? I might be coming back around on believing with all my heart that Long Con is bad.

Lots of people think Quin and I are bad. Around 4 each I think at this point.

Is Long Con your teammate?

I don't know LC's alignment, only my own. I would be inclined to vote for him over Quin, as he has pinged me several times to Quin's zero.

Sloonei wrote:What's the tally looking like? I might be coming back around on believing with all my heart that Long Con is bad.

Lots of people think Quin and I are bad. Around 4 each I think at this point.

Epignosis wrote:

Soneji wrote:I can say that I dealt with a confirmed JJJ for over seven cycles in Turf Wars as scum and won. Worship me

My partner in crime, how goes it?

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:On that note, a legacy post:

Only cowards kill a confirmed town JaggedJimmyJay.

I can say that I dealt with a confirmed JJJ for over seven cycles in Turf Wars as scum and won. Worship me

Your cleared 3J was obviously a pro-town independent with a win condition

My cleared 3J was a bona fide townie doctor.

Mine didn't count towards town numbers so even though I wanted him dead it would be a waste of a kill.

Both him and Sloonei had over 1,000 posts in that game and I couldn't get rid of either. I come from a community with 24 hour day phase and no night posting....I nearly lost my mind that game

Would any of the current destinations put us back at starting point?

Quin wrote:On that note, a legacy post:

Only cowards kill a confirmed town JaggedJimmyJay.

I can say that I dealt with a confirmed JJJ for over seven cycles in Turf Wars as scum and won. Worship me

juliets, are you more concerned with the likelihood of two town doctors pointing to Quin being scum or Golden not watching obvious mafia kill targets?

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:

juliets wrote:Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

I come from a place where the even/odd night thing with power roles is pretty rare. If there were two doctors, one even night and one odd night, the balance/intrigue there would be that you have two chances to get someone good at picking doctor targets and the mafia hitting one of them doesn't take away your doctor protects entirely.

Can't say how likely it is given this game is in a weird place between The Syndicate and Narutoforums in terms of power.

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

Quin wrote:I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Scum read.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Back to reading ] aubergine

[VOTE:

Why?] aubergine

Soneji wrote:
[VOTE: @Sloonei on Golden : I would say that talking about ones scum meta as a response to suspicion is generally something mafia do more than town. Especially when one is touting themselves as too careful/skilled to scumslip in certain ways, it's a method of intimidation. Golden going into his scum meta there just felt straight unnecessary.

Later Golden gives his opinion on whose more likely to have killed Nacho then dismisses that info as something he doesn't believe as worthwhile. Why even remark on it if you don't think it is a viable method of scumhunting? Since he agreed with both Jay and Jack on their NK analysis, then dismissed the info as useful, it comes off as buddying mixed with fence-sitting.


Still reading up on phone.] aubergine

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:[VOTE: Golden pings:] aubergine

Golden wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:

Golden wrote:[VOTE: A map sounds useful. It's my kind of item.] aubergine

[VOTE:

Well we better see some trustworthy behavior then. ] aubergine

[VOTE:

Meh. Trustworthy behaviour is overrated. I tend to be at my most trustworthy when I'm bad

I do think there is benefit in talking about and trying to come to a sort of consensus, because surely the baddies can all pick and vote for a single one of themselves?] aubergine

[VOTE: Playfully comforts all our doubts about his scum meta, then talks about mechanics and strategy stuff.] aubergine

Golden wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:[VOTE: I'm not calling it a slip-up, but it is as Golden said, a series of unfortunate events. I'm just open to the possibility of it being a fictional one.] aubergine

[VOTE:

I think you have a tendency to suspect me, but here is a golden rule you can trust me to live by.

Even when bad, I lie very very rarely. I don't create fictional stories. I heavily discourage teammates from doing it as well. Why? Because all it can do is lead to you getting caught in the lie. It's just a really poor strategy. There's a reason my baddie game is relatively successful, and it's because I leave as few threads to tug on as I possibly can.

Lies are reserved for things that can create a significant game advantage (and even then, you need to feel like its a safe lie), or for fake reads.

Having said that, I do see the advantage in lying to protect others from nks, as a civilian.] aubergine

[VOTE: The WIFOM is palpable in this post. This broke my sirengif.] aubergine

[VOTE:
I think his talk of not slipping up here comes off worse when you think of his reaction to the Dys fake slip, when to the best of my knowledge he knows that Dys is also a skilled player and unlikely to make such a slip. Might speak more to a big ego but it comes off as opportunistic.] aubergine

Golden wrote:[VOTE: I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Preemptive defenses make my skin crawl.] aubergine

[VOTE:

Those plus don't like his vote on sig d1 that started that train, he has been probing peoples responses/reads to things that he should be giving his own opinion on first to seemingly test the waters and the faults in his watcher claim.] aubergine

Quin wrote:Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

Quin wrote:I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Scum read.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Back to reading ] aubergine

Scotty wrote:I've been gone a while and see that we're down 2 civs and a ???. Hopefully that was a vigikill and a bullseye. I think wilgy was bad.

But then I haven't really read the last 8 or so pages I don't think.

Why was sig lynched again?

Oh, and I have info but I'm not sure how to use it.

This is the second time you bring up something about your role or knowledge you have in a vague manner, first being this:

Scotty wrote:Lynch: Soneji

He hasn't checked in yet. He's probably out to get us.

Oh, I have an interesting role with a power that is only as useful as I keep talking. I'm questioning whether or not I'll ever use it, since my Chatty Cathy days might be numbered soon

Town will sometimes act like they have a useful role when they don't to draw a night kill on them, this is like the exact opposite of that.

speedchuck wrote:

Scotty wrote: Oh, and I have info but I'm not sure how to use it.

Wait till someone contradicts it then nail them to the wall.

@Sorshakiller/Sloonei:
D1: Four people claimed the map that we were given N0. Discussion occured. INH conflated the mappers with the directions on the poll and made a bit of a hubbub.
Dyslexicon gave us a subtle fakeslip that I, Golden, JJJ, Strawhenge, Long Con, and a few others argued vehemently about. Lots of reads to go about there.
JJJ and Golden got into an interesting spat, then JOH jumped in after to interact in interesting ways.
Fredwood was suspected by some people for no reason, blew up a bit about it. Towny-ish response in most estimations, I think.
Sig was lynched over inconsistency with early posts, general non-towny responses, and probably mostly because of low activity. Golden and JJJ led the lynch for the most part I think. I was an earlyish voter as well. Then others piled on.

Nachomomma was considered town, I think. He was probabvly a mafia kill target.
Wilgy was considered possible scum. He was probably a ??? target. (Not sure)

I recommend looking at the highlights above, at the very least. It's what I remember without a reread. A little vague, but good starting points.

JOH, we have had janitors as roles before, to deny town information. It's rare, and I forget which game I saw it in. I can try to look up the example later.
In more open setups, the whole game is usually janitor'd.
That's my experience.

Everything here is given from a mostly unbiased perspective outside of the Fredwood comments.

Sloonei wrote:Golden pings:

Golden wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:

Golden wrote:A map sounds useful. It's my kind of item.

Well we better see some trustworthy behavior then.

Meh. Trustworthy behaviour is overrated. I tend to be at my most trustworthy when I'm bad

I do think there is benefit in talking about and trying to come to a sort of consensus, because surely the baddies can all pick and vote for a single one of themselves?

Playfully comforts all our doubts about his scum meta, then talks about mechanics and strategy stuff.

Golden wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:I'm not calling it a slip-up, but it is as Golden said, a series of unfortunate events. I'm just open to the possibility of it being a fictional one.

I think you have a tendency to suspect me, but here is a golden rule you can trust me to live by.

Even when bad, I lie very very rarely. I don't create fictional stories. I heavily discourage teammates from doing it as well. Why? Because all it can do is lead to you getting caught in the lie. It's just a really poor strategy. There's a reason my baddie game is relatively successful, and it's because I leave as few threads to tug on as I possibly can.

Lies are reserved for things that can create a significant game advantage (and even then, you need to feel like its a safe lie), or for fake reads.

Having said that, I do see the advantage in lying to protect others from nks, as a civilian.

The WIFOM is palpable in this post. This broke my sirengif.

I think his talk of not slipping up here comes off worse when you think of his reaction to the Dys fake slip, when to the best of my knowledge he knows that Dys is also a skilled player and unlikely to make such a slip. Might speak more to a big ego but it comes off as opportunistic.

Scotty wrote:I have a feeling Silver is doing a lot of showing and could be putting on a show. I don't read him/her as town right now.

I wanted to suspect Golden or JJJ or something for talking a bunch, since it's always a nightmare of mine in trying to ISO them. I ain't nailing them on anything since I'm rather indisposed in Canada right now with limited wifi, but I feel as though some of the big talkers are circumventing. If my dad talked all the time about his beliefs when I was a child, I'd probably be in Juvie by 13 for doing something dangerous. I wouldn't know better.

Don't worry, my parents got divorced early on so I rarely see him now.



But hey, ya know? I think the most suspicious person here is Elo. reasons easily assumable.

Lynch: Elohcin

So, lynch people because you don't want to read their posts? Granted, reading through D2 now is easier that I don't have to scrutinize every JJJ post but their high posts count aren't a reason to be suspicious of them. To top off a post where you ask others to be suspicious of high posters, you vote for an inactive, how lovely.

speedchuck wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 78#p335178

This post is interesting because it contradicts itself? It, at the beginning of the post, says that logic points to Dizzy doing an on-purpose fakeslip.
Then says later in the thread that it is an accident.
Then I think they ended the day on Dizzy, despite saying they felt good about Diz in the same post.

Maybe Marmot just didn't want to be on SIG?

I don't know. Most of what bothers me about marmot's posts probably have to do with their playstyle/his low activity thanks to other games. Nothing particularly useful, I think. Would lynch scotty over marmot. Unless contradicting themselves in order to seem agreeable and unsure is a Meta-Marmot-Metal-Marsh-Mafia-Move.

This post from fairly early on D2 looks good on speedy not being part of the Hive.

Golden wrote:I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

Preemptive defenses make my skin crawl.

Long Con wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:Okay I've sat on this long enough that we've seen people comment on Wigly and others avoid doing so, despite my request.

I killed Wigly, and unfortunately he was town. Sorry Wigly, but there was really nothing constructive at all from you on D1 when I ISOed you and i figured after Sig turned up town that taking out another suspicious D1 player would give us the most info on the reads of others towards you D1 as I was really hoping I was right about you being scum.

How do you know he was town? Since you're being so forthcoming... what is your role exactly?

This is a very intriguing reveal. Not sure if it's true, or a strategy of some sort.

Some role fishing here from LC. Silver gave the info that he killed Wilgy and that Wilgy was town, outside of maybe elaborating some on why the role was janitored. Jumps quickly to the possibility that this could be a "strategy" of some sort, leaving out any indication of whether he thinks its a mafia or town strategy.


zzz...keep getting distracted by PMs on NF for Clash of the Hosts.

Dyslexicon wrote:I mean, maybe shoot LC, I'm not directly opposed to it.

@Soneji, how caught up are you?

Page 61/167

Some of the stuff that I'll go through I have already read at other times. JJJ being confirmed cuts down on the brain power needed to scrutinize his many posts, though I still skim them for cases he makes. I have nowhere to be for the next six hours, so mafia is all I'll be doing.

For JoH, I have seen JoH argue against suspicion on him based on the accuser not giving who they thought his potential scumbuddies were and arguing against him NKing Nacho by asking why didn't he kill JJJ instead. Defends himself on hypotheticals.

LC I haven't remembered much from. From his voting history I came across this:

Long Con wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:VOTE LYNCH DYSLEXICON

I appreciate this.

Such RAWR.
Was probably not going to stick with my vote anyway, and I think this comes off more genuine than not.
One question though: Did you go through my whole ISO, as in, did you read every post?

Lynch LC

^If I'm to stick with early meta gut similar to my Sig gut.

And you can look forward to similar results. Perhaps the Sig results pleased you?

Which is certainly sirengif worthy.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The item voted on Night 2 is a corrupted jury.

Have we gotten to know what it does yet?

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:hey soneji why shouldn't I shoot you?

Because I'm town.

Who does town soneji propose I shoot instead? Who did you vote for on Night 2?

I voted for you N2.

I would be inclined to say Fredwood but no one shares said suspicion. Shoot Golden.

Why'd you vote for me?

From what I was able to read on D2 before and my full read-through I'm doing now as I have the rest of the day off to catch up, you came in hot and never let up. Shared my dislike of the sig wagon, jumped on Golden, ended up in the same neverending argument with Silver Latern but with patience I can't muster, played a part in the MM lynch and in general asked good questions. I don't really do townreads but from what I saw at that time you were the closest one could come to being one.

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Sloonei wrote:hey soneji why shouldn't I shoot you?

Because I'm town.

Who does town soneji propose I shoot instead? Who did you vote for on Night 2?

I voted for you N2.

I would be inclined to say Fredwood but no one shares said suspicion. Shoot Golden.

Sloonei wrote:hey soneji why shouldn't I shoot you?

Because I'm town.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Soneji wrote:I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

Nutella's push was maybe the biggest reason the Marmot lynch gained traction, so what's not to trust about it?

If JJJ ever ends up scum, Soneji is scum buddies.
But lol. I'm done tinfoiling JJJ. He's sure town.

I haven't gotten to researching the MM lynch beyond seeing who all voted for him. If Nutella pushed on him that hard then I would be inclined to dismiss that suspicion.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Quin

But you need to think I have teammates if you think I'm mafia.

I don't think you think I have teammates. I don't think you think I'm mafia.

That is some rather wack logic. It's like saying that if you don't know the entirety of how a puzzle will be completed, then you can't fit in a single piece of it.

If I have one of those weird 3D jigsaw pieces, I'm not gonna assume it belongs to my standard two d puzzle cause it doesn't fit with any of the pieces.

But whatever. I've masoned with Quin. He doesn't necessarily think thataway.

I do. Lotsa times, one confirm or flip will shake up my rainbow cause I thought three players were scum together. Learn one is town, everything changes. My style is not Quin's though.

I generally don't put much credence into trying to figure out people being scum together until I have a mafia flip. Until then, I push and prod wherever I get pinged, without any consideration of whether or not two of my suspects would work as scummates/who their scummates might be.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Soneji wrote:I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

Nutella's push was maybe the biggest reason the Marmot lynch gained traction, so what's not to trust about it?

If JJJ ever ends up scum, Soneji is scum buddies.
But lol. I'm done tinfoiling JJJ. He's sure town.

I haven't gotten to researching the MM lynch beyond seeing who all voted for him. If Nutella pushed on him that hard then I would be inclined to dismiss that suspicion.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Quin

But you need to think I have teammates if you think I'm mafia.

I don't think you think I have teammates. I don't think you think I'm mafia.

That is some rather wack logic. It's like saying that if you don't know the entirety of how a puzzle will be completed, then you can't fit in a single piece of it.

So I've been both busy IRL and with running my own game on NF, disheartened with how far behind I've become in this game. I have tried just reading the last couple pages and looking into my suspects from before, along with vote counts from the first two lynches. The thing that stood out to me most while going through all this was that Fredwood didn't have a vote listed for D1 or D2 in the final vote counts, so I looked through his post history to see if he had just unvoted...he hasn't put down a single vote this entire game so far. CTLR+F turned up the word vote quite a number of times from him but it was in regards to basing reads of his on how other people voted or giving reasons why he didn't vote sig or Dys. He said in one of D1 posts that he doesn't like to rush votes but this is just straight not moving from the starting line.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:


I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

juliet's said something about how Scotty here reminded her of herself in GoC when she mislynched me. I checked that game to see if she was still alive and at least according to the player list she hasn't died yet, so it pings me that she is using her unconfirmed alignment there to townread someone here.

Need to see more into Golden with the time I have. I read Sloonei's JoH case but it didn't really register bad with me, maybe due to it hinging on being more caught up with the thread.] aubergine

@Jay in regards to the sig lynch: I would say Syndicate regulars with their familiarity with sig mislynches come off looking the worst in general, yourself and Golden in particular as starters of that wagon. I can't really agree that "Are there any good reasons not to lynch sig" is a good approach, "Are there any good reasons we should lynch sig over Wilgy, Sorcha, Dfaraday, Eloh" would be a considerably better one.

@Sloonei on Golden : I would say that talking about ones scum meta as a response to suspicion is generally something mafia do more than town. Especially when one is touting themselves as too careful/skilled to scumslip in certain ways, it's a method of intimidation. Golden going into his scum meta there just felt straight unnecessary.

Later Golden gives his opinion on whose more likely to have killed Nacho then dismisses that info as something he doesn't believe as worthwhile. Why even remark on it if you don't think it is a viable method of scumhunting? Since he agreed with both Jay and Jack on their NK analysis, then dismissed the info as useful, it comes off as buddying mixed with fence-sitting.


Still reading up on phone.

I will switch to Wilgy if Fredwood doesn't take off. Sig hasn't struck me as anything more than a slight scumread. His talk of the map came off well as him being relaxed enough to be silly and I've liked his interactions past that.

Wilgy hasn't provided any contributions despite the very long day phase and being around for long enough to respond to several people, time enough to do some quick reads. Instead he makes a good length post talking about how we should all feel foolish for not recognizing his meta or his activity elsewhere.

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote: The silly argument is that saying the amount of towncred that might be achievable with what Dys pulled is worth the high possibility of getting lynched, especially when hammer rules are in play.

I haven't seen a single person give actual town cred to Dys. Several people are still voting for Dys based on it and others like myself and Golden have outright stated that Dys should not get towncred.

Silly arguments are not exactly mafia motivated arguments though, which is why I'm not voting you. What I don't understand is that if you are so convinced of the probability of a mafia Dys posting a fake slip to gain town cred, why aren't you voting Dys?

Please quote where I stated that I am convinced that Dys is mafia and did it to gain town cred.

I'll wait, while you fabricate another silly argument.

You are certainly convinced that the probability that Dys would do it for town cred is high and have posted rather clear suspicion on multiple occasions, alongside your own suspicion on my argument against it being a smart play. Multiquoting is too much of a pain on my phone and anyone who checks your post history can see the posts I have referenced.

I have to wonder what mafia motivation I have to argue against the idea that what Dys did is a good play? Do you think I'm scummates with Dys?

This whole fabricating argument thing is getting a bit old.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/infer

One of the most important words to know in the game of mafia. Learn it.

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:That latter post of Soneji is not something I like. It's shutting down opposition to something that by all rights should be discussed until everyone's sick of talking about it.

Says the queen of tinfoil.

i do not know what relevance tinfoil as a concept has to my post, so this just feels like you're discrediting me.

Besides, I never tinfoil.

It was a joke Quin.

As for your argument about Dys being scummy due to how he followed up his fake slip, with the reads he gave and hiw he gave them, that is a valid avenue of discussion. The only thing I was saying is that the argument that Dys is scum based on him knowledge slipping is pretty much off the table. Questioning his follow-up or motivation for trying that tactic here is well within bounds.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I think that her reads based on people's reactions to the fakeslip look okay. But she also mentioned that she had three scum-reads in the same post, and when pressed about it, she denied having any - adding to that, I'm pretty sure she expressed independent suspicion of Golden before that as well.


Is Dys male or female? I'm seeing his's and her's thrown around a lot.

I don't see anything bizarre about mentioning reads that don't exist in the same post that has a fake knowledge slip. Just seems like it was part of baiting reactions.

I don't understand the mindset of trickster types

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote: Given you had read the thread through this far and should know that I'd explained at least part of my rationale for why I hadn't voted yet - how do you come to a legitimate vote for me later?

I have no real excuse. The first post was part of a quick 12-page skim, the second was a post just looking at the immediate reaction to the 'scumslip'.
Part of the reason I lost interest so quickly in that vote.

Silver Lantern wrote:

speedchuck wrote: Perhaps I should follow more of this argument, but dang SL, you almost made me switch my vote off of Strawhenge with that reasoning. Is there a post that Soneji makes that argues Dizzy as looking towny?

Yes.

Soneji wrote: Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

Filler.

Is that second post supposed to be confirming Dizzy as town? Because I read it as confirming that this play wasn't a scumslip. (No idea what you mean by 'filler').
This doesn't do it for me.

I think he is salty that I said one of his posts might be a "filler" post by mafia, one that seems like it is contributing but has little of actual value.

The irony for me in all of this is that he suspects me in part for thinking I townread someone, when in the GoC game I got lynched partly due to my meta of not doing townreads period. I don't even let myself think of people in terms of them being town, outsidd of mechanical clearance where some healthy skepticism remains.

"That's my secret Captain, I'm always angry..."

Heh, in my home site if your post isn't atleast 10 characters it won't post, so when we post something short, like "no" we tend to follow up with "fills," or "filler."

I am not voting for you cause I am salty (which I always am btw), I am voting for you because you're making silly arguments like saying that something which can give town rep is not a benefit to a mafioso, and therefore not a good play.

The silly argument is that saying the amount of towncred that might be achievable with what Dys pulled is worth the high possibility of getting lynched, especially when hammer rules are in play.

I haven't seen a single person give actual town cred to Dys. Several people are still voting for Dys based on it and others like myself and Golden have outright stated that Dys should not get towncred.

Silly arguments are not exactly mafia motivated arguments though, which is why I'm not voting you. What I don't understand is that if you are so convinced of the probability of a mafia Dys posting a fake slip to gain town cred, why aren't you voting Dys?

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote: Given you had read the thread through this far and should know that I'd explained at least part of my rationale for why I hadn't voted yet - how do you come to a legitimate vote for me later?

I have no real excuse. The first post was part of a quick 12-page skim, the second was a post just looking at the immediate reaction to the 'scumslip'.
Part of the reason I lost interest so quickly in that vote.

Silver Lantern wrote:

speedchuck wrote: Perhaps I should follow more of this argument, but dang SL, you almost made me switch my vote off of Strawhenge with that reasoning. Is there a post that Soneji makes that argues Dizzy as looking towny?

Yes.

Soneji wrote: Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

Filler.

Is that second post supposed to be confirming Dizzy as town? Because I read it as confirming that this play wasn't a scumslip. (No idea what you mean by 'filler').
This doesn't do it for me.

I think he is salty that I said one of his posts might be a "filler" post by mafia, one that seems like it is contributing but has little of actual value.

The irony for me in all of this is that he suspects me in part for thinking I townread someone, when in the GoC game I got lynched partly due to my meta of not doing townreads period. I don't even let myself think of people in terms of them being town, outsidd of mechanical clearance where some healthy skepticism remains.

Quin wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:That latter post of Soneji is not something I like. It's shutting down opposition to something that by all rights should be discussed until everyone's sick of talking about it.

Says the queen of tinfoil.

i do not know what relevance tinfoil as a concept has to my post, so this just feels like you're discrediting me.

Besides, I never tinfoil.

It was a joke Quin.

As for your argument about Dys being scummy due to how he followed up his fake slip, with the reads he gave and hiw he gave them, that is a valid avenue of discussion. The only thing I was saying is that the argument that Dys is scum based on him knowledge slipping is pretty much off the table. Questioning his follow-up or motivation for trying that tactic here is well within bounds.

Quin wrote:That latter post of Soneji is not something I like. It's shutting down opposition to something that by all rights should be discussed until everyone's sick of talking about it.

Says the queen of tinfoil.

speedchuck wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote:It wouldn't be a brilliant scum play as there is no true benefit for Dys in doing it, while it had a strong chance of getting them lynched with the hammer vote in place. Let's be clear that Dys is not getting town cred for his fake slip, proving that it was just that only removes him from the obvious lynch pile.

He got plenty of town cred from you. You're convinced he's town since he did it a month ago.

Are you seriously arguing that getting instant town cred by saying, "hey look at this link guys, I do this when I am town," isn't a true benefit to a mafioso?

wat

"Let's be clear, Dizzy isn't town for this."
"No, you're convinced he's town. I don't like your reasoning for being convinced he's town. I'm going to vote you for your silly reasoning."

Perhaps I should follow more of this argument, but dang SL, you almost made me switch my vote off of Strawhenge with that reasoning. Is there a post that Soneji makes that argues Dizzy as looking towny?

He is confusing me saying that the argument that Dys legit slilled is pretty much null and void as me giving Dys town cred. Dys can be still be scum and faking his town meta with that fake slip, it is just not an angle that I think is worth pursuing.

A lot of people confuse convoluted with brilliant.

It wouldn't be a brilliant scum play as there is no true benefit for Dys in doing it, while it had a strong chance of getting them lynched with the hammer vote in place. Let's be clear that Dys is not getting town cred for his fake slip, proving that it was just that only removes him from the obvious lynch pile.

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote:Polls are usually kept in a separate thread Silver Lantern. That may not be the case here, so you could ask Spirityo if you're allowed to screenshot them. You said mafia don't have much reason to vote together here though, which is true but altogether an unhelpful statement that could only serve to potentially make others disassociate those voting together in the polls as being teammates. Scum on a fairly regular basis will try to seem like they're contributing by posting info that makes them look like they're being useful when in reality it's just filler disguised as activity. That is why I am questioning a lack of a real point to your statement.

Had I made only the first statement, sure, your "it's just filler statement" analysis would probably make sense.

But you're completely glossing over the fact that I placed that sentence in context in the very next sentence a sentence you also quoted along with the the sentence you're questioning. In fact, I find you're analysis quoted above to be the real "filler disguised as activity" or "mafia trying to seem helpful" way more than my original statement.

I didn't gloss over it at all, it's in the context of wanting records of the votes even though you don't think mafia will vote together that makes it weird to me.

You are probably the most ultra-defensive person I have ever encountered playing mafia. It is a consistent look though and one that doesn't feel faked.

@JoH : Are you meta reading me based off the one game we played together?

Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

Polls are usually kept in a separate thread Silver Lantern. That may not be the case here, so you could ask Spirityo if you're allowed to screenshot them. You said mafia don't have much reason to vote together here though, which is true but altogether an unhelpful statement that could only serve to potentially make others disassociate those voting together in the polls as being teammates. Scum on a fairly regular basis will try to seem like they're contributing by posting info that makes them look like they're being useful when in reality it's just filler disguised as activity. That is why I am questioning a lack of a real point to your statement.