The Syndicate

Golden wrote:

Soneji wrote:The lesson here is that different mindsets for scumhunting will always get me suspected on this site. My reasoning was sound and I was right in that Zebra was a baddie trying to push lynches on false pretenses, yet Golden found my logic suspicious.

And I also thought your sprit vote looked like a bus.

I made a case on Glorf before basically anyone else on d1, sig just jumped ahead D2.

Maybe you just have a sixth sense for me.

The lesson here is that different mindsets for scumhunting will always get me suspected on this site. My reasoning was sound and I was right in that Zebra was a baddie trying to push lynches on false pretenses, yet Golden found my logic suspicious.

Its funny how Golden's main reason of suspicion on me was for my suspicion on a member of the opposing mafia team

Pretty much just got unlucky that the one person who had a weird hang-up with me was a situational vig. The roll of the dice got me in this one, along with doing work on Clash of the Hosts.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Hey guys.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Wilgy, Golden, Marco, MP, Zebra, Sorsha

Imo, the vig should target those people first. In whatever order they prefer.

Nothing personal guys, but I doubt more than two of you will manage to catch up before the game is over.

3 baddies, 1 cult leader and only 2 civs.

Lol, and I was so sure soneji was bad that all I could think with that post was 'why did he leave off soneji?'

Of course, I knew I was never vigging myself lol

Im used to Soneji's one post a day routine.

It doesn't mean he inactive or not caught up. He just playslike that.

I was more active then usual this game, people just seemed to somehow forgive when anyone else was busy except me the time I did only post a couple times a phase.

Anyone who confuses post count for activity should be ashamed of themselves.

Going to do a few ISO's as catching up normally at this time when I'm preparing to put up sign-ups for a big game on NF is just too much right now. As always, remember that I do not have town reads, just varying levels of scumreads.

MP : Not a whole lot of content to work off of as hes perpetually in catch-up mode. Early contributions only consisted of asking people about their reads of people they commented on. Had some good input on the spirityo 2.0 wagon, with him pointing out how spirityo was too focused on trying to defend Glorf or be angry at people for lynching him then scumhunting. Had valid suspicion on LC but didn't vote that way, instead voting soup. This gives me confidence that he is likely not Troupe, could be a Ghastly Guardian with his total dodging of the main two lynches though. Was talking of Dom d2 before he was a main lynch candidate.

Conclusion : Slight scum lean

MetalMarsh : Lots of small one, two sentences posts. Very little in the way of scumhunting over, strongest read all game seemed to be D2 on sig, saying he 100% disagreed with him on Glorf and posted several things that would explain Glorf's replacing out. Has been followings others leads. Only slight townish vibe I got from him was him saying DDL's reason for suspicion on Quin was overly complicated.

Conclusion : Weak scum lean

Zebra : The only topic he has discussed all game is the Snow Dog situation. Said he has been super busy since then but I still don't like the way he went about attributing a tactic to Snow Dog's actions that clearly weren't there.

Conclusion : Moderate scum lean

Sorcha : Has been mainly sheeping for most of the game. Kept asking Epi and Spacedaisy about how they'd go about determining who was sitting on the sidelines in the Snow Dog debate instead of just figuring it out herself. Has asked about some weird stuff like the day 0 poll and if LC knew who cursed him. Other then that talked about mechanical guilt with the possibility of a lie detect on Quin from Dom and Epi's suspicion on Elo not making sense to her. Her last several posts have been better than what was there before, showing some actual opinions of her own but not enough for me to feel that good about her. Her early stuff is total sheep.

Conclusion : Moderate scum lean

Long Con wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This will sound naturally suspicious coming from someone like me ( ) but I say there is a large number of people ruled out for this phase.

Rather than focus on sprityo's team, I would like to have a crack at the other. That's a good deal harder than finding teammates. So there's where my focus will be.

If there's no advancement to be had on that front, then fine lynch a sprityo teammate. I won't complain.

Why wouldn't you want to eliminate one of the teams as quickly as possible? Would make it so that there is a kill only every other phase.

Often a host will let the remaining bad team kill each night once a team is eliminated, and I don't say this...because I'm bad.

Makes sense from a balance standpoint. Never played in a game where mafia alternated kills, so wasn't aware of the precedence.

Epignosis wrote:This will sound naturally suspicious coming from someone like me ( ) but I say there is a large number of people ruled out for this phase.

Rather than focus on sprityo's team, I would like to have a crack at the other. That's a good deal harder than finding teammates. So there's where my focus will be.

If there's no advancement to be had on that front, then fine lynch a sprityo teammate. I won't complain.

Why wouldn't you want to eliminate one of the teams as quickly as possible? Would make it so that there is a kill only every other phase.

Really busy today. The Dom wagon looks really solid based on JoH's and sig's posts, so that is where I will vote.

Snow Dog wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Thank you LC.

General consensus. Do we think more baddies are openly discussing or hiding in the background?

People always ask that for some reason and the most likely answer is always "both".

There are 7 baddies in this game, I expect some of both kinds.

But there is almost certainly a baddie in, say, the top 10 posters? Even top 6 possibly?

Kind of weird questioning. Are you aiming to come after some top posters?


Sog certainly looks good due to the spirityo flip but it doesn't sit right by me that he spent his whole D2 on it when it was a static argument.

insertnamehere wrote:I'd extend the same query to Sig and Soneji

I already gave my thoughts on LC. spirityo is voting for self preservation, which doesn't indicate much to me.

Epignosis wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Long Con wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:THE CASE AGAINST LONG CON

Epignosis wrote:I am willing to vote sprityo, LC, or DDL of those three names.

DDL is, let's say, a kind of incendiary guy.

I agree with the initial idea behind DDL's case against LC. LC has latched onto a few things DDL said that admittedly don't make complete sense, but are just used to augment the core of his rhetoric. LC took those things, and now is trying to completely invalidate DDL's case, regardless of the good points he made about LC.

LC was blendy and noncommital as hell, up until DDL posted a case on him. LC then dedicated himself to poking holes in that case, and trying to lynch DDL, who is an easy-ass target at this point due to how he racked up the votes on D1.

It's not genuine.

It's not real baddie-hunting.

It's an OMGUS, despite how many discrediting adjectives LC uses to describe DDL's case.

Then there is truly no defense against someone who builds a case against you that is shored up with inaccuracies, misrepresentation, and "things that admittedly don't make sense". In your world, this is a great way for a baddie to take a Civ down and get away with it.

So, the case against me is that I'm "blendy and non-committal", and that I believe DDL is intentionally twisting the facts to make me look worse.

The defense is to point out what you consider to be twisting of the truth then let othere decide if they agree. Tunneling hard on someone for a reason that you as a biased party can't without great difficulty be dissuaded from is a bad idea. Focus your efforts elsewhere. That you have done little else this day phase then argue about DDL twisting your words isn't a good look.

The case against you is that D1 you had no strong reads then jumped on the spirityo wagon, D2 you went full OMGUS on DDL. You're not contributing anything to the game outside of supposedly uninformed or biased votes.

Soneji, you already voted. Do you think LC is bad?

I'd put him in my moderate scum category at this moment. The thing I got pinged by most was the remark about not wanting to split the inactive voters block, which could be chalked up to difference in game philosophy. That LC couldn't find much more merit in spirityo's D1 contributions then soup's one post giving excises for not being around is hard to justify though. Combined with him saying he doesn't have time to make other reads while he makes lost of posts defending himself/arguing about DDL, I can't see any reason to view him as townish.

DrWilgy wrote:Thank you LC.

General consensus. Do we think more baddies are openly discussing or hiding in the background?

The majority of votes at the moment are on active players with strong opinions, that would indicate the former. That its the middle of the holidays muddies the waters.

Long Con wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:THE CASE AGAINST LONG CON

Epignosis wrote:I am willing to vote sprityo, LC, or DDL of those three names.

DDL is, let's say, a kind of incendiary guy.

I agree with the initial idea behind DDL's case against LC. LC has latched onto a few things DDL said that admittedly don't make complete sense, but are just used to augment the core of his rhetoric. LC took those things, and now is trying to completely invalidate DDL's case, regardless of the good points he made about LC.

LC was blendy and noncommital as hell, up until DDL posted a case on him. LC then dedicated himself to poking holes in that case, and trying to lynch DDL, who is an easy-ass target at this point due to how he racked up the votes on D1.

It's not genuine.

It's not real baddie-hunting.

It's an OMGUS, despite how many discrediting adjectives LC uses to describe DDL's case.

Then there is truly no defense against someone who builds a case against you that is shored up with inaccuracies, misrepresentation, and "things that admittedly don't make sense". In your world, this is a great way for a baddie to take a Civ down and get away with it.

So, the case against me is that I'm "blendy and non-committal", and that I believe DDL is intentionally twisting the facts to make me look worse.

The defense is to point out what you consider to be twisting of the truth then let othere decide if they agree. Tunneling hard on someone for a reason that you as a biased party can't without great difficulty be dissuaded from is a bad idea. Focus your efforts elsewhere. That you have done little else this day phase then argue about DDL twisting your words isn't a good look.

The case against you is that D1 you had no strong reads then jumped on the spirityo wagon, D2 you went full OMGUS on DDL. You're not contributing anything to the game outside of supposedly uninformed or biased votes.

DrWilgy wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:What is a GTH and a CFD?

Gun to head read. "If I had a gun to your head would you say this player is good or bad?"

Chinese Fire Drill. The act of quickly forming a wagon on someone near EOD that results in their lynching.

An example of a GTH would be that GTH, I would say Epi is scum as he is putting forth the idea that his cards display what he is saying they do and that we should trust in them lest we want to face the consequences but won't flip them over for us to see.

Long Con wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Vote spread is consistent and bueno. What are the cases for DDL, LC, Sprityo and Sig?

Also didn't we already off Sprit? What did New Sprityo do to warrant lynch 2?

I'd like to say, for the record, that there IS no case against me.

You're certainly the best person to ask when it comes to the validity of cases against you.


Don't start some CFD on a poster with zero interactions people. There has been much more content by which to judge and take info from out of those currently on the board. A vig kill would be the superior route for soup.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Why is Golden on Soneji? What's the deal there?

He thinks my vote for Zebra was strange, even though he chalked it up to sympathy for JoH which makes me question why he thinks that makes me scum.

Good to see discussion picking up, some hard lines being drawn which is great going into next day phase.

Long Con wrote:

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First off, shame on you all for making what Epi said look so incredibly insulting. It seemed clear to me he was saying civ Quin is too good to give credence to such an obvious kind of accusation. It's to obvious to be a real teammate indication, no one is that obvious. He was complimenting you I believe Quin, not insulting you.
I don't think we deserve to be shamed. That's how I interpreted his post, it's not my fault that it was so cryptic. When Epi explains it, and it's not an insult, then there will be no insult to be shamed for. And this is Epi we're talking about here, is it really that far-fetched that he'd throw an insult out there?

Secondly, I'm struggling with the fact that everything LC says sounds ok, but my gut is screaming baddie when it comes to him and I can't put my finger on the reason why...
Daisy, don't worry about it, it's very much everyone's first instinct to suspect me. It's hilarious. I think I chose the wrong username for playing Mafia.

My username comes from the villain in Along Came a Spider, whose a serial killer/kidnapper. Yours is easy to understand for everyone but mine probably comes off worse to those who know the source.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:Merry Christmas 'yall. I'm here for a few hours and then I'll likely just be lurking from my phone while my relatives are over for the afternoon.

My vote's probably going to go to Luffy again. I didn't get anything from our conversation to steer me away from that idea.

Doesn't seem like Luffy's in the cards today without a bit of pushing or prodding; is it okay that you're parking your vote in nowheresville or are you expecting Providence?

Do you have someone in mind that you'd rather Quin's vote be on? Currently all the leaders of the vote have two votes, Quin voting DDL puts him one away from a tie when he was the second leading vote yesterday with four. Can't see why you think hes not in the cards today, even those with currently 0 votes have a fair shot of being the lynchee with how things are progressing.

I looked into DDL's case on Quin and I'm not seeing it at all. Quin gave opinions on a fair number of subjects and the times when he mentioned DDL were far enough between or warranted as when he responded to spirityo questioning what he took from the Snow Dog discussion. Quin gave the only valid reason for lynching spirityo yesterday and wasn't even on the lynch as he had already voted DDL, hence his I'd not oppose wording.

Long Con wrote:You can probably ignore the first quote and response above, since it was rendered moot by the later quotes. I just forgot I had started out with that.

I'll probably end up voting for DDL this day, unless I find more time during Christmas, which I am unsure I will be able to do. He'll probably be all "OMGUS yo!" and that's fine. But it's not. I just think he's bad. Unless there's a history of him twisting the truth to paint another player as bad when he is a Civ.

Part of OMGUS is that you are viewing things only from your perspective. To you its easy to think that someone has twisted your words, since you know the intent behind them and the exact situation in which they were made. I don't see it as DDL twisting your words and more being misinformed as well as too closely invested in that you were talking about an alternate lynch on him. I found Glorf's vindication post as ludicrous as well because under no outcome would she be vindicated. If both flipped town she wouldn't be vindicated in disliking the two wagons as she presented no alternative option. You don't get to stand on a high horse and look down on others when you put forth no effort of your own, that behavior is indicative of mafia.

While people usually say around the time of voting who they are voting for, the NF way of putting the vote in bold and in brackets makes it easier to keep track of voting context.

Long Con wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

sig wrote:Why LC?

He is around, he is paying attention at every big discussion, and he is posting his opinions, but not committing to anything. He spent a long time talking about how he didn't know who to vote for on d1, but then at the end he was okay with pushing the nearest wagon around.

Long Con wrote:Lemme go look at sprityo...

Mmm. not a lot there, even within the few posts he has. Ok, sorry sprityo, but it's follow this, or kinda randomly go elsewhere. I'm going to just vote sprityo, and basically cross my fingers. I really have no suspicions right now.

That's not accurate, I wasn't "pushing the nearest wagon". You're straining to phrase things in a way that makes me look guilty of something which I am not. I decided to go with a low/non-poster, and sprityo was in the short list of folks that I was considering for that. Then ONE person voted sprityo, and I decided that was the best "low-poster" way to go... rather than pick a different one and split that slice of the vote up. It wasn't a wagon at that point - that's why your analysis is inaccurate. I would go so far as to say "intentionally inaccurate", but I may get back to that when I have more time to devote.

Why would it matter to you if that slice of the vote was split up? You were going off of basically nothing except that they were a low poster of which soup had but a single post compared to a fair amount of posts with content from spirityo. If a more well informed vote won over your own "lynch the "inactive"" then that should be a good thing. You made it a wagon by your own words, by jumping onto it so as not to "split the vote".

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Soneji wrote:I'll be voting spirityo this phase. Glorf's fence-sitting, lack of contributions and straight avoidance of accusing anyone put her high up on my scum scale.

I don't think holding lack of contributions against a player who replaced out shortly after is fair. I don't think that "fence-sitting" and "avoidance of accusing anyone" AR really strong accusation either; he didn't agree with the two wagons and then replaced out shortly after, but you're making it seem like he was avoiding contributing during a time when everyone had awesome fleshed out scumreads and refusing to give a position on a bunch of people.

Fence sitting and avoiding direct accusations rank very high on my scumdar. Strong opinions draw more attention, directly accusing people can get you backlash from them.

I never asked for Glorf to give me fleshed out reads or tons of positions, only to give me anything other then vague "I don't like the look of this.". As I told her, if she didn't like either lynch she should have assessed why that is, posted that and maybe give some reads on people on those wagons as if she doesn't like them, there might be scum movement among them.

As for other reads, I'll save those for later when there is more to work with and I'm on my laptop. One thing I'll be looking into for sure is DDL's case on Quin.

Snow Dog wrote:My only problem with, well one of the problems with lynching spirtyo is that the poor chap has already been lynched once and lynching him again appears unduly harsh.

There is no such thing as harsh in mafia. If you find a person suspicious, nothing in their personal life or game situation should stop you from voting them. The whole purpose of the replacement "tactic" is to play on emotion fueled leniency like you are displaying here.

I'll be voting spirityo this phase. Glorf's fence-sitting, lack of contributions and straight avoidance of accusing anyone put her high up on my scum scale.

At least you guys get something as incentive for trying to survive when the host makes it so only survivor wins. On NF, everyone in the faction winning is a universal thing yet some people still play to survive. It is bad either way.

sig wrote:

Soneji wrote:

sig wrote:@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I think it's a vital question to know. I usually ask it day 0, but I forgot. Why shouldn't I want to know if I can win or not?

If you're town, it is rather irrelevant if the host technically names you a winner. If town wins the game, then you won the game in spirit at the least. Your own survival should not be a concern or get in the way of putting forth a full effort to contribute to the town cause.

The whole idea of town or mafia not winning together is dumb, regardless of what a host says. If you contribute to a factions win, you share in that win.

sig wrote:@DF QUESTION! Do dead players win?

Why is this important? Concerned about your own survival?

I was at work the rest of the day. Doubt I find any superior suspect while on mobile or otherwise, there has been a lack of worthwhile content to form reads on, same as Monkey Island in its early phases.

Seems a bit hypocritical and singling out to expect more from me when few others did much in the way of scumhunting. You just said yourself that my vote is one of the few you actually even see the reason behind, even if you disagree with it. At the most, I could have gone for pushing a CFD on Glorf for her fence-sitting and avoiding "false accusations" in a game based on accusing people without hard evidence.

Thinking back on something, Golden took my vote on Zebra as a sympathy vote for JoH. I don't know how his mind came to that conclusion but unless he felt it was false sympathy, which wasn't the vibe I got reading some of his posts, then why would he put that as indicative of mafia and not just emotion based bad play?

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Soneji wrote:@Golden : You are misunderstanding why I voted Zebra. It has nothing to do with sympathy for JoH, I am not sure how you got that impression when I didn't compare the two of us or mention myself as having culture clash in those posts. My vote went to Zebra as I saw her interaction with DDL and JoH as being a forced "gotcha" where she puts forth Snow Dog's claim of not reading his role as mafia bait that they bit on.

My earlier post was based on skimming the discussion. I reread things in full now that it is D1 and found other factors that changed my view.

My default mindset is changeable votes.

I don't get the forced "gotcha" thing but I'll guess I'll come back to this later.

Zebra created a scenario in which Snow Dog wasn't just joking but baiting out mafia, then used that as a means of putting JoH, DDL and MM as the mafia that bit on the bait. That is what I mean by forced "gotcha".

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

I assume he hopes that Epi is bad at being scum, in case he has to play against a scum Epi. Not a super sincere case of well-wishing.

I enjoy people who play the game at high levels; I enjoy learning and improving in this game and I haven't found a way to do so better than getting absolutely trashed by people who are better at the game at me.

Soneji, why did you think that this was scummy of me? Do you think that I would be publicly wishing that my scum partner's scum game was up to snuff; why wouldnt I just keep it to myself or the QT?

Its not really so easy as that. Do I think you posted that with the thought in your head of putting yourself as seriously well-wishing him? No. That doesn't even have to be the "motive", could be that you are scum and he is not to your knowledge. When people are fluffing they tend to let their guard down at times under the assumption that people won't look as much into what they say, so I thought it worth pursuing to question you on it to see your reaction.

While I may have been mafia in the Monkey Island game, my posts on mindsets in terms of scumslips were genuine.

So when you questioned me on that post your thought was that I'd let my guard down so much that I accidentally wished that my scum partner had an awesome scum game in thread?

I don't remember your mindset post from Monkey Island or your scum slip post but it shouldn't matter; whenever you question someone on something, you should have a scenario in mind where you've caught them on something, and I find it pretty ridiculous that you thought that you caught me on "he might have accidentally wished that his scum partner had a great scum game in thread". So am I misunderstanding something in our conversation, or...?

My thought was that you were fluffing and prone to potentially saying things that might be indicative of an underlying mindset, that most people would dismiss because it is fluff. I don't think like most people and I pursued the angle to see if it went anywhere. Your reactions have been satisfactory.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

I assume he hopes that Epi is bad at being scum, in case he has to play against a scum Epi. Not a super sincere case of well-wishing.

I enjoy people who play the game at high levels; I enjoy learning and improving in this game and I haven't found a way to do so better than getting absolutely trashed by people who are better at the game at me.

Soneji, why did you think that this was scummy of me? Do you think that I would be publicly wishing that my scum partner's scum game was up to snuff; why wouldnt I just keep it to myself or the QT?

Its not really so easy as that. Do I think you posted that with the thought in your head of putting yourself as seriously well-wishing him? No. That doesn't even have to be the "motive", could be that you are scum and he is not to your knowledge. When people are fluffing they tend to let their guard down at times under the assumption that people won't look as much into what they say, so I thought it worth pursuing to question you on it to see your reaction.

While I may have been mafia in the Monkey Island game, my posts on mindsets in terms of scumslips were genuine.

Glorfindel wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Am I allowed to vote 'We Didn't Start The Fire'? I'm really not liking the look of those leading wagons...

Why?
Who would you like to vote for, grand elf?

I don't think I've seen sufficient genuine content so far to make a judgement to be honest, my friend - and yes, I know I bear some responsibility for that... Of the current wagons, MM's looks the most pure but from my recollection, the poor guy gets lynched early every game I play with him

You haven't seen sufficient enough content to make your own case on anyone but somehow have seen enough to not like the look of the leading wagons. If you don't like the look of them, think of why that is and go from there. You might find yourself thinking that the wagons are scum motivated and look into those voting on them.

You are only allowed to vote "I didn't start the fire but I watched the house burn while sitting on the fence", at this point.


@ISH : Ties are most definitely not fun for anyone trying to take this game seriously.

If you are accusing me of not taking this game seriously, my friend, you offend me

The only thing I accused you of was fence-sitting.

With one of your latest posts we can add actively avoiding stepping on toes to your list of crimes.

@ISH : Fair enough.

Glorfindel wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Am I allowed to vote 'We Didn't Start The Fire'? I'm really not liking the look of those leading wagons...

Why?
Who would you like to vote for, grand elf?

I don't think I've seen sufficient genuine content so far to make a judgement to be honest, my friend - and yes, I know I bear some responsibility for that... Of the current wagons, MM's looks the most pure but from my recollection, the poor guy gets lynched early every game I play with him

You haven't seen sufficient enough content to make your own case on anyone but somehow have seen enough to not like the look of the leading wagons. If you don't like the look of them, think of why that is and go from there. You might find yourself thinking that the wagons are scum motivated and look into those voting on them.

You are only allowed to vote "I didn't start the fire but I watched the house burn while sitting on the fence", at this point.


@ISH : Ties are most definitely not fun for anyone trying to take this game seriously.

@Golden : You are misunderstanding why I voted Zebra. It has nothing to do with sympathy for JoH, I am not sure how you got that impression when I didn't compare the two of us or mention myself as having culture clash in those posts. My vote went to Zebra as I saw her interaction with DDL and JoH as being a forced "gotcha" where she puts forth Snow Dog's claim of not reading his role as mafia bait that they bit on.

My earlier post was based on skimming the discussion. I reread things in full now that it is D1 and found other factors that changed my view.

My default mindset is changeable votes.

insertnamehere wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

I assume he hopes that Epi is bad at being scum, in case he has to play against a scum Epi. Not a super sincere case of well-wishing.

Makes sense. My half-awake brain was interpreting it more like the phrase "If hes half as good as you say he is, they're in trouble."

Nachomamma8 wrote:I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Why exactly would you wish this, if you were town? You can like a challenge but in the end its a competition where you want to emerge victorious, there is no well-wishing to be had.

While you gave the reasoning of Christmas prep for your dropoff in contribution, you've gone from full scale analysis to majority fluff.

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Ok, so I read everything. I voted east because I wanted to and am satisfied to see it winning.

That was a lot of pages of discussing Snow Dog's statement about not reading his role card. I thought not reading one's role card would be a foolish personal decision but it wouldn't be a scum tell in my mind. And I didn't find anything particularly useful in the back and forth to help identify any scum either, it seemed a lot more about playstyle influenced conversation than anyone trying to manipulate anything. I think the people who we should look at are probably the people who were reading it and not commenting or committing to any stance. They are the ones much more likely to be scum, because scum love letting civs go after each other over stupid playstyle arguments, it saves them a lot of work.

Just my two cents. Going to work now. Third shift, fun fun fun...

Spacedaisy's point of view here mirrors my own.

So, who are those people?

There are many such people. However, it helps to remove some of the names from consideration for Day 1. New Jack City losing his shit over Snow Dog strikes me as earnest and genuine, for instance (plus I wouldn't vote for him today anyway). Did either Mafia really think no one was going to come in (like I did) and explain the Island Monkey business and show that Snow Dog shouldn't be lynched Day 1 for such a ludicrous reason? Of course they didn't. I will thus likely be voting someone who stood on the sidelines while that uproar was taking place rather than vote for one of the combatants.

MM stirred the pot on Snow Dog and then left it to boil. MM was on Monkey Island, so I question his reaction to Snow Dog's little joke.

Long Con wrote:One counterpoint I would make is that it was just Day 0, so it's not as strong a viewpoint as it would be were it a later, meatier game day.

What exactly is not as strong a viewpoint?

In regards to the bolded, if they saw it coming, it would be easy for one of them to act first and try to gain town cred by playing the voice of reason. I'm not much of the opinion that mafia would avoid talking about the Snow Dog situation given it was day 0 and the likelihood of a SD lynch happening D1 were very slim(Wilgy didn't get lynched in Monkey Island).

Mafia can like letting civs go at each other but they also like putting easy suspicion on aggressive townies.



Zebra to me this game comes off as trying to push certain angles where none exist really. Snow Dog's claim of not reading his role naturally came off as a joke to anyone in Monkey Island but Zebra argued for what he did as some baiting tactic, with a catch-all pass to be scummy if you can claim or have it claimed that you were just luring out mafia.

Golden wrote:First read - zebra is town. I love the way he is deconstructing DDL and Jacks arguments around Snow Dog, despite the much easier route being to do what I did and say 'Snow was not 'lying', he was just engaging in referential banter'.

The easy route doesn't allow you to paint people as scum. For all the angles Zebra expects DDL and Jack to have considered, at a time when no decision or claim can even be close to final, she overlooks angles herself like culture clash and approaches their statements as definitive in terms of Snow Dog being their day one lynch.

I'll be voting Zebra for now.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Soneji wrote:

Long Con wrote:I think it's weird that there are places that tell the role of the nightkilled player by default. Everything I have seen, it's part of the essential mystery of the game to have nightkills be unknown.

The only true mystery there needs to be in the core mafia game is who is mafia. Part of the unraveling of that mystery is seeing who flips mafia to make associative reads, default janitoring hinders that to an extent. I also can't get behind a system where there is no info dumping alongside default janitoring, the balance of no info dumping is still being able to see the cop/tracker/watcher flip then work out if their strong reads were based on scumhunting or ability info.

Janitoring should be tied to a role and/or be a limited resource.

Get used to it, it's part of the site's charm.

I think the info-dumping thing is particulary refreshing, it forces townies out of their ability-only confort zone.

I am used to it, will never agree it is good game design though.

I like the no info dumping rule, just not when combined with default janitor kills.


Seems the issue with SD, INH, JoH, DDL and Zebra here is more tolerance of specific "playstyles". Not reading your role is basically akin to cheating in my eyes. Given Wilgy doing this in the Monkey Island game, which Snow Dog was part of, I wouldn't jump on it d1 unless other factors added onto it.

Like Link in MM, we head South to the first temple.

Long Con wrote:I think it's weird that there are places that tell the role of the nightkilled player by default. Everything I have seen, it's part of the essential mystery of the game to have nightkills be unknown.

The only true mystery there needs to be in the core mafia game is who is mafia. Part of the unraveling of that mystery is seeing who flips mafia to make associative reads, default janitoring hinders that to an extent. I also can't get behind a system where there is no info dumping alongside default janitoring, the balance of no info dumping is still being able to see the cop/tracker/watcher flip then work out if their strong reads were based on scumhunting or ability info.

Janitoring should be tied to a role and/or be a limited resource.