The Syndicate

Soneji wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:51 am Current suspects :

Seanzie
Matahari
lucy


sabi to a lesser extent, but I've liked their posting outside of their interactions with Marmot

Two out of three ain't bad

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:29 am It's actually a statistical unlikelihood that Wilgz has zero woofs I think...

Yeah I've been twisting this over in my head the last couple hours and I've reached a high likelihood that the Wilgy wagon had at least one wolf on it, once I have time to properly sit down I'm going to detail things out. NKA alone though heavily suggests a wolf on the wagon. With NKA the simplest answer is more often then not the correct one, but it is too often dismissed as being too obvious to be true, and with the Marmot kill the simplest answer is that wolves wanted to make the wagon seem pure by flipping the one who started it. The one who benefits the most from this is Seanzie, and for me their flip would go a long way towards seeing the big picture of the game.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:39 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:05 am

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:03 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:02 am

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:02 am Town

Me
SVS
Lucy
Dennis
Scotty
Bea

That's where I'm at right now. Anyone not in this list is in my scum pile enjoy your stay.

Putting yourself in your towncore is… (finish the sentence)

Correct. I mean I know I'm town lol

I usually give it a wolflean, but the rest of the list balances it out.

That seems weird I think most players include themself in their reads and why would they ever say they aren't town

The logical assumption is that someone includes themselves among their towncore by default so it's unnecessary and potentially performative to list themselves, because either they know they're town from their rolecard, or they know they need to fake being town from their rolecard. One doesn't normally include themselves in readslist as they cannot make a read on their own alignment which is a known factor to them, and either they know they're town or need to fake it. The need for anti-town to fake being town is what subconsciously can cause them to want to project "I AM TOWN" at every opportunity, hence listing themselves in towncores/townreads lists.

It is common enough for actual townies, especially from certain site cultures, to list themselves in such things so it's not a hard wolf tell, but it can be a soft tell when alongside other performative town projection examples.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:00 pm

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:59 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:53 pm @Soneji are you submissive and breedable

I prefer Espeon to Vaporeon, though they're pretty breedable too

bad answer

If you ask me a joke of a question, you're going to get a joke of an answer.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:53 pm @Soneji are you submissive and breedable

I prefer Espeon to Vaporeon, though they're pretty breedable too

Matahara's response to pressure was...uninspiring, and I still don't feel good about them. Now that they've answered though, I'd rather be voting one of Golden or Seanzie rather than being on a wagon with them.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:54 pm Boy does this post go a long way down the path of trying to get people not to listen to what I’m saying… creating some big straw men there.

So my ‘sabi or scotty’ post is both steering the thread but also curiously I’m not pushing for Scotty today. Hmm, very curious.

And there’s a straw man against why wilgys vote train being clean wouldn’t be mafia’s wet dream. Really, you don’t think so? You don’t think they’d love it if day two focussed on a wagon full of civs? Or do you just prefer my idea is discounted?

I'd feel better about your chances of being town if you were pushing Scotty today, or at least gave a good reason to back off.

A clean wagon onto Wilgy would be the ideal for wolves, but when wagons are close at EoD they're likely to have had to get their hands dirty to secure that mislim.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:58 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:52 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:51 pm

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:00 am Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:15 pm Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:34 pm If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:21 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:39 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:39 am
-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:26 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:32 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:01 am
Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:06 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:39 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:38 am

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:12 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:58 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:54 pm

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:01 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:51 pm I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

Seanzie, Lucy and you all have good chances of being wolves. If Seanzie is a wolf, potentially all three wolves were on Wilgy to save him.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:10 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:02 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:58 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:52 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:51 pm

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:00 am Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:15 pm Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:34 pm If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:21 pm
I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:26 pm
Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:06 pm

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:12 am

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 pm

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

The whole post wasn’t about you, but I hear you.

I think having a mild level of suspicion on you is healthy in general

I don’t think there was a mild level of suspicion. Just discrediting.

If it's unclear, I do have a mild moving on medium suspicion of you.

Matahari wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:37 am

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:18 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:29 am

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:01 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:51 pm I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

I note that I also still feel a little urky lurky about this from soneji

@Soneji noting your later entry to the game, what was your philosophy on entering a thread that was well underway?

No different than normal, as I normally enter later than most regardless.

In the busier part of my work day and sleep deprived, but I'll get to things later tonight. matahari pressure in nice to see, they have the actual wolfiest post I've seen this game with their d1 readslist.

[VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

Can you say why you think my post was the wolfiest you’ve seen? I think I get it, as I don’t notice a lot of that going on. The new way of playing seems to consist of more questioning and a lot of challenging people right out of the gate. I signed up for this game to try and learn stuff about the new way, but I believe it’s going to take a few games before I get used to it. Still, I’ll learn.
Do you see it as wolfy for any reason, other than the difference between old and new?

I’ll try to catch any and all questions directed at me in the order I get them.

This was my reasoning in my original post :

Soneji wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:51 am

Matahari wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:45 am i want to post my thoughts so far, while I have a minute. They are definitely not deep thoughts, but how deep can they be on day 1?
New players get a pass, until later in the game. Absent players, as well.
if I don't mention you, its because I have you as town for now.

Falcon45ca- I didn't find it suspicious that you chose someone quickly because with movable votes, it seems like a lot of players throw votes around in a slap-happy fashion. then you were questioned about it, and you promptly posted quotes for why you made your vote. This looked legit to me at the time. Later it occurred to me that maybe you did all that too quickly, Pre-planned? But someone, Sabiplz, I think, said this was normal for your town game.

Soneji posted, I think, but I'll need to go back and look to make sure. ???

Lucy- so far, is reminding me of Dr. Wilgy. Too random to read, and weird posting just annoys me because I don't know what to do with it. I'd like to hear from players who are familiar with them.

Seanzie made a very risky statement for a town player to make. Or just an 'I can't be bothered' statement. Since it was preceded by an 'Ugh', I'm going with the former.

Sabiplz drew attention to his post, then backed away from it, then said she rarely voted early or often, then 17 minutes later she voted for Seanzie. None of this feels right.

Golden got a vote from Falcon, and although Falcon's reasons would not be enough to convince me to vote someone, I thought they were ok for a day 1. However after post 486 ( I think, I'll go back and check later and do an ebwop if necessary), I have Golden as town.

Marmot, no clue. I'd like to hear what other players think of him. ???

Everyone else, I have as probably town. I have no absolutes this early, but I'm watching the players above who pinged me. I'd like to hear what other players think of my not so deep thoughts, please.

This looks like forced content mixed with a whole lot of fence sitting, given that you gave nothing reads on myself(absent player) and Marmot, and other reads were basically just game recaps with little actual thoughts of your own. The closest to real thoughts here are with sabi who you seem to suspect but don't actually outright point the finger of suspicion at, and with Falcon who you start to sus then back off because you thought you remember it being said it fits their meta(why should you trust sabi's meta on Falcon here, when you seem to sus sabi as well?). The Seanzie "read" is the most amusing to me, since you present their statement as either a risky town statement, or an IDGAF statement, but you never contemplate is as a wolfy statement.


Current suspects :

Seanzie
Matahari
lucy


sabi to a lesser extent, but I've liked their posting outside of their interactions with Marmot

Your posts after this were mostly just reiterating stuff about sabi, and some more game recapping

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:15 pm Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:34 pm If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:21 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:39 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:39 am

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:26 am

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:18 am

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:12 am

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:07 am

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:26 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:32 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:01 am

Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:42 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:39 am

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:26 am

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:18 am

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Is this last sentence sarcasm, just to be clear?

Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:06 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:39 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:38 am

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:05 am My gut says the wilgy wagon is 100% clean

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:12 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:58 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:54 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:52 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:47 pm 1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:01 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:51 pm I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Dennis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:04 am

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:44 am

Dennis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:36 am

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:31 am I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Do you think that would effect how they talk in the thread too? i.e Lawyer doesn't make as many claims as the other two?

Depends on who randed the Lawyer role really. If it's a player who can afford to blend they might be more low key then usual, but a vet player with expectations on them may not change anything.

I was saying that because multiple people have said Matahari isn't hunting as active as she normally is and that could be because she got Lawyer. There could be RL reasons but until that's addressed I'm gonna [VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

Hunting a specific role of the mafia has a low accuracy rate as there's too many variables involved, though mata is suspect for other reasons anyways so not the worst vote.

Dennis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:36 am

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 9:31 am I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Do you think that would effect how they talk in the thread too? i.e Lawyer doesn't make as many claims as the other two?

Depends on who randed the Lawyer role really. If it's a player who can afford to blend they might be more low key then usual, but a vet player with expectations on them may not change anything.

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:29 am

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:01 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:51 pm I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

I note that I also still feel a little urky lurky about this from soneji

@Soneji noting your later entry to the game, what was your philosophy on entering a thread that was well underway?

No different than normal, as I normally enter later than most regardless.

In the busier part of my work day and sleep deprived, but I'll get to things later tonight. matahari pressure in nice to see, they have the actual wolfiest post I've seen this game with their d1 readslist.

[VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

Finished sabi ISO, and yeah I think they're one of the towniest players in the game outside the Marmot stuff which was overly aggressive but largely fits with the general brashness they've displayed throughout the game. They were first to call out Seanzie, and they have great progression on that read throughout day one without ignoring the rest of the thread. Still think :

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:42 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:41 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:39 pm I am indifferent to Wilgz vote but if Sean flips w, I will kill the Wilgz wagon

And if Seanzie flips town?

Then shrug.

has the most town vibes of any post I've seen this game. Very carefree, not worried about looking bad from the response, not tryharding to come up with some master plan for all scenarios.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:15 pm

Soneji wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:12 pm Nailing a wolf is priority number one, and making a second competitive wagon just opens the door for the top suspect of the day to be saved, which lucy is advocating here then later joins Wilgy wagon.

but if we wagon one person the entire day and they flip v then we have nothing to analyze, are you calling seanzie a wolf here?

I am saying that it's more important to ensure that towns top suspect is eliminated over competing wagons, as that usually gives the highest chance of hitting a wolf. Even if that one wagon flips V, then there's still info from how people interacted with them, and with the thread in general on d1. If town is split for a good portion of the day that's another thing and competing wagons aren't bad, but the Wilgy wagon was constructed late based on Wilgy's lack of effort, so not that many worthwhile interactions to parse through versus Seanzie's.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:13 pm bad read, but i understand ur trying to save sabi

Nice deflection

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:02 pm I dislike that Sonei is barely here, yet makes appearances at...oh, let's say times of convenience

I work a graveyard shift, and I post when it's convenient for me to do so, which is all anyone should have to really

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:18 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:08 pm Yes. Certainly, or I would not have posted about it multiple times. I felt it was opportunistic. I felt it was a false flag, trying to make a non suspicios thing seem suspicious, trying to focus suspicion on "not us" which is what mafia have to do in a game with no other baddies or third party.

But right now I am here trying to decide if and where I should move my vote, so again, who else would you have me vote for and why?

well currently the wagons are sabi/seanzie and I'd be down for a seanzie vote for aforementioned reasons

and you totally didn't read or understand my logic whatsoever

also do you disagree with my logic?
1) poke into the family
2) if I judge there's scum between the 3 they'll easily be able to find them, via best reads on one another
3) if they're all town, then I can confidently clear all 3 and form a townblock

like seriously, when did I ever fucking sus them unnecessarily and what is the scum motive?

Regarding the bolded, there are no aforementioned reasons, at least from them or anything quoted by them. They kept saying they would do a reads list, and asked others why Seanzie was a wagon, but had no follow up to either.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:34 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:30 pm Do you think this is a thing that should be taken into account regarding suspicions?

Also, again, if not you who should I vote for?

changed my answer, sabi because two wagons are better than one at eod, unless you wanna build a wagon, which I'm not opposed to, I just don't have a great idea on who as of now

Nailing a wolf is priority number one, and making a second competitive wagon just opens the door for the top suspect of the day to be saved, which lucy is advocating here then later joins Wilgy wagon.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:39 pm seanzie is in his town meta

Now late in the day they're saying Seanzie is in town meta with no reasoning to back that up and no progression from their earlier post where they said they'd be down for a Seanzie vote(said post was made less than an hour and a half before this one).

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:18 pm probably one in sabi/seanzie

What happened to you thinking Seanzie was in his town meta? Or that sabi is town because of Seanzie's push?

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:41 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:20 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:52 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:31 pm Pretty dumb and empty reason to wolf read me.

Seanzie sucks at reading me part 69.

Anyway back to work.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:33 pm Quite literally the biggest wagon D1 so far has been 2 votes.

No one exceeded that.

How tf is that not a quiet D1????

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:33 pm Ugh I'm tilted and breaking my no mafia at work rule

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:45 pm 500 post 75% thru day one is definitely quiet ffa

Pretty big reaction to such a "dumb and empty" reason to wolf read you.

Seanzie how many games have you played with me. Is me overreacting to a scum read normal or abnormal for me?

[VOTE: Sabi] aubergine

just for good measure, votin' ya' twice.

seanzie tunneling sabi is town indicative of sabi regardless of seanzie's alignment

lucy keeps contradicting themselves, and focusing on either things that don't really benefit the game much(family dynamics) or on trying to get rid of inactives as it were. Pretty strong wolf read.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:48 pm

Soneji wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:46 pm Probably best to just focus on lucy vs sabi given the time left, will go ISO.

Kinda sucks when both wagons are your teammates, doesn't it?

I'm a big fan of buses :

Probably best to just focus on lucy vs sabi given the time left, will go ISO.

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:59 pm 2 hours to EoD and 3 people haven't voted. @bea @Soneji @Roxy What's up? Bea has been inactive but you other two have made plenty of comments today.

I'm here now, passed out earlier then had some stuff to do, but I'll be here until EoD. Thought the site was set to my timezone, so figured I had over two hours left but the site is set to an hour ahead of me so I have less than I thought

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:54 am The chances of town!anyone looking at that single early D1 joke post from me and concluding I'm a wolf at this juncture without any regard to anything else is very low.

Couple that with how Soneji spends tons of lip service on Lucy and Mata, but not me. Almost as if Soneji has been told in wolfchat that I'm an easy push today, so Soneji didn't feel the need to actually develop any critical thought about me.

This indicates that likely Soneji and Sabi are partnered because Soneji would only do this lacklustre push on me if they needed to possibly end up on me to save a teammate.

The bold is quite the assumption. If you did anything to improve your standing past your opening, you may not even be a primary suspect, but your defense was part open-wolfing and lots of deflection, and you spent the entire day just on the defense contributing little else to the thread.

I don't quote everything that is part of my suspicion, if I did my multiquote walls would get enormous, and with you in particular majority of your posts were bad.

I'm not even pushing anyone yet, but you're already freaking out as if I'm going to focus you over lucy/mata/Wilgy voters.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:19 am no.

Amazing to quote all of that for this response, bravo

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:33 am @Soneji I was never against Sean, he was against me.

I meant against Sean as a wagon, not that you sussed him.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:42 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:41 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:39 pm I am indifferent to Wilgz vote but if Sean flips w, I will kill the Wilgz wagon

And if Seanzie flips town?

Then shrug.

Towniest post in the game, love the brashness.

Got up to EoD1, and the Wilgy wagon is pretty bad. Sean obviously is self-pressing, and Dennis is a newbie sheeping some, whereas lucy's "for wagon" reasoning comes off awful, while SVS and Golden were against Sean most of the day so them not wanting him to be offed makes sense, but that they didn't ever try to make a more solid wagon elsewhere is suspect. Outside of the Wilgy wagon, Falcon going off on a Golden vanity wagon late in the day is a terrible look.

Will be back later for d2 stuff, and combing through the ISOs of Wilgy wagon.

Forgot about posting d1, but I'm catching up now. I'm a slow goer, and do things during downtime at work, so only through post #550 rn before heading out to get some security rounds done.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:47 pm *looks at poll* why are there so many people in this game?

Ugh... I'm probably just going to pick a random person and tunnel them, then repeat after their flip all game. I'll let you all know once I decide who I'm going to start with.

Rather performative opening just to say you'd be RVS'ing all game.

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:18 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:04 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:47 pm *looks at poll* why are there so many people in this game?

Ugh... I'm probably just going to pick a random person and tunnel them, then repeat after their flip all game. I'll let you all know once I decide who I'm going to start with.

This feels off

Hmmm... putting suspicion on someone else? Very slick...

But you also make a fair point.

Pointing the finger of suspicion is rather the point of the game, not sure why you're acting perplexed by someone doing so.(further reading does indicate you're a newbie, so this isn't as weird as originally thought)

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:50 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:49 am Yo did anyone pick quaxly? I'm almost done with the new Pokedex but need a starter.

Ty for your time.

wigly what's your read accuracy like?

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:56 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:55 am

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:50 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:49 am Yo did anyone pick quaxly? I'm almost done with the new Pokedex but need a starter.

Ty for your time.

wigly what's your read accuracy like?

Idk, I think I'm at least 65% accurate. Pegged 3/4 of the scum in last game only reading like 1/4th of the posts and shitposting half the time.

Fr though, I really want to finish the new Pokemon games.

thoughts on pegging?

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:02 am that's wigly's role, or is it yours? @Scotty

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:19 am

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:17 am I refuse to vote for anyone under the age of 30 today unless Seanzie is under the age of 30 because I might sheep scotty.

seanzie is 33

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:22 am Jesus Christ golden is 39, and mata is 69 due to previous conversations

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:36 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:33 am

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:22 am Jesus Christ golden is 39, and mata is 69 due to previous conversations

I'm 61, if you'd like to put that in your spreadsheet.

no spreadsheets, the information does help me form reads, different mental models by age

lucy being part of the peanut gallery early.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:08 am I'm Town!


Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss

A little grandiose for an "I'm town!" post, but it's Paradise Lost so I'll accept it.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:06 pm

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:04 am Checking in, shaking off the rust.

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:38 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:08 am

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:04 am Checking in, shaking off the rust.

Oi, long time no see. How've you been?

Been good, enjoying mafia retirement.

Is 11 words in 2 posts an effective method for shaking off the rust?

For day 0 which I usually ignore, kind of. The Great Wall of Soneji is where the real shaking off comes in.

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:35 pm dennis, how well do you know your mom and brother

Kneejerk reaction is that this is the wolfiest post in the game so far, especially considering lucy's previous posts all being peanut gallery type discussion. It just sounds ludicrous to be asking how well someone knows their own family for the purposes of this kind of game.

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:37 pm kate, why did you make them signup?

This question has zero relevance to anyone's alignment in this game.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:30 pm Marmot catch up is uninspiring

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:32 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:31 pm Never mind, Sabi is the cutest wolf, not DrWilgy.

:really:

Am I voting you? No

Seanzie is the wolfiest person so far minus golden

Bad vibe from sabi for immediately jumping on Marmot after shading them continuously for their prior absence during first half of day 1, then trying to shield themselves from suspicion with a weak "my vote isn't on you" response, as if wolves don't throw shade on people they aren't currently voting.

Matahari wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:45 am i want to post my thoughts so far, while I have a minute. They are definitely not deep thoughts, but how deep can they be on day 1?
New players get a pass, until later in the game. Absent players, as well.
if I don't mention you, its because I have you as town for now.

Falcon45ca- I didn't find it suspicious that you chose someone quickly because with movable votes, it seems like a lot of players throw votes around in a slap-happy fashion. then you were questioned about it, and you promptly posted quotes for why you made your vote. This looked legit to me at the time. Later it occurred to me that maybe you did all that too quickly, Pre-planned? But someone, Sabiplz, I think, said this was normal for your town game.

Soneji posted, I think, but I'll need to go back and look to make sure. ???

Lucy- so far, is reminding me of Dr. Wilgy. Too random to read, and weird posting just annoys me because I don't know what to do with it. I'd like to hear from players who are familiar with them.

Seanzie made a very risky statement for a town player to make. Or just an 'I can't be bothered' statement. Since it was preceded by an 'Ugh', I'm going with the former.

Sabiplz drew attention to his post, then backed away from it, then said she rarely voted early or often, then 17 minutes later she voted for Seanzie. None of this feels right.

Golden got a vote from Falcon, and although Falcon's reasons would not be enough to convince me to vote someone, I thought they were ok for a day 1. However after post 486 ( I think, I'll go back and check later and do an ebwop if necessary), I have Golden as town.

Marmot, no clue. I'd like to hear what other players think of him. ???

Everyone else, I have as probably town. I have no absolutes this early, but I'm watching the players above who pinged me. I'd like to hear what other players think of my not so deep thoughts, please.

This looks like forced content mixed with a whole lot of fence sitting, given that you gave nothing reads on myself(absent player) and Marmot, and other reads were basically just game recaps with little actual thoughts of your own. The closest to real thoughts here are with sabi who you seem to suspect but don't actually outright point the finger of suspicion at, and with Falcon who you start to sus then back off because you thought you remember it being said it fits their meta(why should you trust sabi's meta on Falcon here, when you seem to sus sabi as well?). The Seanzie "read" is the most amusing to me, since you present their statement as either a risky town statement, or an IDGAF statement, but you never contemplate is as a wolfy statement.


Current suspects :

Seanzie
Matahari
lucy


sabi to a lesser extent, but I've liked their posting outside of their interactions with Marmot

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:08 am

Soneji wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:04 am Checking in, shaking off the rust.

Oi, long time no see. How've you been?

Been good, enjoying mafia retirement.

Checking in, shaking off the rust.