The Syndicate

SVS, I can't see how you didn't get my hinting early on. You hinted with wanting G-Man to post 18-19 reads(which is what we needed each of us to post if we divided the 75 equally), then I responded by saying I would need to see so many more haikus from G-Man to grade him(the numbers I posted where the amount he needed at that point to reach 18-19 for the day).

Free from my worst enemy: post expectations.

Niju

Since it is that or I get lynched. Possible mafia getting lynched is always preferable over the only person I know for sure is town, that being myself. I'm still rather disappointed with how obtuse SVS is being but I guess not everyone has an eye for things.

The only reason I haven't been very distrustful of G-Man's haiku gimmick is his early interaction with SVS about doing player reads. Despite a few somewhat questionable things he has done, I haven't been pinged by him. The same applies to SVS.

sig wrote:

Soneji wrote:What I was saying is that I got pinged by a sig post, then thought about whether or not the reason for that was for the kind of thing players like sig normally get mislynched over and decided that it wasn't the case.

And wait have we ever played before? I think we did in Turf Wars, but that didn't get brought up that much. How do you know I usually get mislynched for pingy not really pingy stuff?


Is this a BTSC slip.

It got brought up enough for me to literally make a post defending you with that as part of my reasoning. I might have been a Cop hard bussing my teammate Epi but yeah I'm aware of the fact that you're generally mislynched:

Soneji wrote:I have been deciding between Epi and chaindeath. Sig's flip I would say has more firmly put me in the Epi camp, based on his constant tunneling of a player who to my understanding is lynched a lot as town for being unusual. Low hanging fruit is what we would call him on NF.

Epignosis

What I was saying is that I got pinged by a sig post, then thought about whether or not the reason for that was for the kind of thing players like sig normally get mislynched over and decided that it wasn't the case.

I can hardly see how me saying that I have found that those who jump on no lynch supporters are mafia is offering no opinion on Llama. My vote would have been on Llama had I not passed out that night and missed EoD.

S~V~S wrote:But sofar, on short acquaintance, I have been pretty right about you

Hey every one, who thinks sig is bad?

One game in which you didn't actually lynch me doesn't mean much

S~V~S wrote:Does anyone think he is bad? If so why? If on the fence,why?

I definitely think he is not. I think he is an easy lynch most games, but having seen it happen so many times, I am getting a better grip on sig, and I think he is a civ.

This is a game with one bad team. Then need to make cases on civvies to win. Let's not let them.

Faraday, do you have an opinion on sig or on Soneji? What about you, LC?

I am always wary of lynching those who are from a general standpoint easy to mislynch, we have a fair amount of those on NF and I don't often misread/mislynch them. My gut feeling on him has gone up to my mind and it doesn't compute the reasoning for that feeling as being the kind of thing to worry of a mislynch over. My scumhunting methods seem to differ from most here, which is mostly the same as on NF. We'll see if overall they get similar results. There isn't a big enough sample to say yet.

DrWilgy wrote:Quin... Get back to work you lazy soot! Get... Back to... Work...

Soneji wrote:Wilgy hasn't answered why he voted me. I don't understand what his deal is, especially in light of Matt's actions last day phase.

Ji-san. Why did you ignore me?

Why do I fall asleep and we lynch players that aren't Elo?

I didn't know "Ji-san" was supposed to be me. I did address your thoughts on Eloh though earlier in the thread:

Soneji wrote:I find myself rather in agreement with Wilgy on Elo, mainly for the tunneling and indirect llama defending through discrediting Sloonei. Her latest interaction with SVS reads to me as her trying to buddy up to SVS by showing how she mimicked her.

I didn't like Wilgy's whole insanity earlier with Matt, its not something I will tolerate for any extended period of time.

Sig seems to really want to push a Matt lynch through with his point about the mafia extra voter, though there are a couple other plausible explanations why it wasn't used. The player with the role not being around or cutting their losses and saving it for later, with maybe a framjob involving Matt in mind. As I said earlier, didn't like his fencesitting on the Llama case.

DrWilgy wrote:This is intriguing...

Are there key words or tempos in my text that have lead to this "meanness" that is being read. I have only a few posts where I wanted emotion to show, most of those being jokes anyways. I'm unsure about why you think LC and I are being friends regarding suspicions or not. I'm still worried about him the same I was before.

Eloh, if I'm being mean, please let me know how so. I don't want anyone to feel bullied, that would be an undoctorly thing to do.

You wanted to show emotion, rather than genuinely were emotional?

S~V~S wrote:

Long Con wrote:As for my views on DFaraday... I looked back over his posts. I saw when he said his reason for voting Dom on Day 1, and looked at Dom's posts up to that point, and I understand where he's coming from. I know the roles-based reasons for what you were saying about Dom, but I don't blame DF for not thinking of taking that into account.

Looking at the remainder of their interactions, I put DF more Civ than Dom on a rainbow list. That's not factoring in your roles-based theory, S~V~S.

DFaraday, who do you think you'll be voting for tomorrow?

Well, then we have to differ there. I think Faraday is supabad, and I think Dom is not.

@Eloh~ I would not have voted for you or Wilgy, tbh. LC may be right about him being the Stink, but I do not think he is a baddie. And like I said earlier with the Momma Bear thing, my view of you is not objective at this time. I think I would have tried to get Faraday lynched. I also feel less than great about LC, but I could go back and forth there. I am not seeing what Soneji is seeing with sig; quite the opposite. I am feeling pretty good about sig, and the more he seemed to tunnel sig, the worse i felt about Soneji.

I have a feeling that we generally aren't going to see eye to eye much in games.

sig

Wilgy hasn't answered why he voted me. I don't understand what his deal is, especially in light of Matt's actions last day phase.

Just tell me which of my siblings gave you a hard time and I'll give them a noogie.

Wilgy, why is your vote on me?

I am open to being swayed if you present a strong case Quin.

That was a pretty unenthusiastic defense, Quin.

Long Con wrote:That's Edgar in your avatar, right?

It is. Edgar Roni Figaro from FFVI, ladies man extraordinaire.

Sig, I am not discounting the possibility of LC as mafia having silenced himself, I have seen it done before on NF. My suspicion of Quin for it stems not from him stating the possibility, it is in the manner in which he had did it. If he had been upfront about it, I wouldn't have had an issue with it likely.

I didn't miss the main portion of your Scotty post, I just thought it was irrelevant to the point I was making. I want to lynch you for fence sitting on Llama and vying for town cred off that dead player.

Elohcin wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

sig wrote:Of course, you being one of his suspects might say that.

Oh hush, I am not mafia.

*Grumbles and crosses arms*

Eloh, do youbhave any thoughts on my vote analysis? My perspective was included in it, so your thoughts reflecting it would be beneficial.

I think vote a analysis is a good thing towards the middle of the game, and especially late in the game. However, I think its too early for a vote analysis. I don't think there is enough information for them to really be helpful this early in the game. AND on top of that, G-man called you out for making a misleading list. He is right. Ever since you actually started playing you act as if we ought to all just assume you are civ now. I cannot do that.

Soneji wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Unfortunately I only know that I am town. I am not 100% sure about anyone else. However, SVS and G-man seem to be acting like helpful civs. Even though sorsha hasn't posted a lot, I am leaning civ on her. I think Wilgy is acting a little more sane lately but still unsure. Blooper seems to be more distant than usual which I don't like. I always read her as civ, but its possible she is bad. LC seems civ and so does sonjei so far. I don't know about you, Quin, but mostly b/c I have yet to play with you before (I think). We have a lot of quiet players. Who are your top suspects and why?

What about my posts seem civ to you Elo? You haven't played with me before really either, so what differentiates me from Quin for you this game?

Also, is my name really that hard? Soreji and now Sonjei

I think its just your tone. I think a person's tone is very telling.

Fair enough, tone is a large part of reading people.

And I will just start calling you Son

That is worse then people calling me Prince on NF

Though I have always wanted a brother and a younger sibling in general

Elohcin wrote:Unfortunately I only know that I am town. I am not 100% sure about anyone else. However, SVS and G-man seem to be acting like helpful civs. Even though sorsha hasn't posted a lot, I am leaning civ on her. I think Wilgy is acting a little more sane lately but still unsure. Blooper seems to be more distant than usual which I don't like. I always read her as civ, but its possible she is bad. LC seems civ and so does sonjei so far. I don't know about you, Quin, but mostly b/c I have yet to play with you before (I think). We have a lot of quiet players. Who are your top suspects and why?

What about my posts seem civ to you Elo? You haven't played with me before really either, so what differentiates me from Quin for you this game?

Also, is my name really that hard? Soreji and now Sonjei

sig wrote:Ummm I had my vote on the same civ twice, that should count for something. Especially since I was first on him both times.

Why should it count for something? Why are you worried about your placement when its still a ways from the bottom?

sig wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

sig wrote:Ummm I had my vote on the same civ twice, that should count for something. Especially since I was first on him both times.

Sig, you just tried to argue a rainbow list based completely on vote record... Why?

Because your painting me out to be mafia when I'm not.

If hes painting anyone as mafia its spirityo, Dom and I since we're in read and orange. You're closer to the lean mafia category of the list. You are overly concerned of your position in a rainbow list based solely on vote tracking after two cycles of play.

Scotty wrote:I think that other mafia voted elsewhere in Day 1. It would be far too easy for them all to vote in the same place IMO. So should Quin be bad, that's 2 baddies voting for Matt d1 which would make me feel better about sprityo

Also reading sig as good right niw

After reading this post and seeing that Scotty got killed at night, I had a theory that he was killed for this post, to give town cred to sig. After looking over Quin more it was also possibly meant to give him cred for supporting Scotty's argument on LC. Then lo and behold:

sig wrote:So Scotty was killed, he thought I was good, and had Eloh, DF, and quin. He also brought up sprityo. Could he have been killed for suspecting the mafia? Also something to note he mentioned that LC might have been silenced by his own team.

Sig brings up Scotty thinking he was good, which really doesn't hold any relevance. The only reason to bring it up is to aim for town cred.


Oshira-sama, I think you have made a mistake unless you are sig himself. I would request that you bring him back as a lynch option.


As for the Quin case, I think its fairly solid. When I've read over Quin's posts this game, they haven't given me much of a town vibe, very different from how I strongly read him as town in the last game we played together. The whole "How convenient." thing with LC being silenced is a fairly big red flag, it suggests too strong a conviction of LC as mafia and its indirect in its suggestion of LC silencing himself/having his mafia silence him. Its the kind of response that I generally could only see a civ doing if they had been aiming to lynch an extremely looking scummy person for days on end only for them to be silenced or if they had a history with the person in question getting out of suspicion through mechanical abuse. Quin doesn't really apply to either.


With sig not an option, I'll be voting:

Quin

S~V~S wrote:So he wasn't bad. Not sure why he made that post, but OK.

New observations need to be made. Looking foward to LC talking. Good Night

Linki,SONEJI WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS IN THE ROLES, it is a specific thing, holy shit,lol. Just read them.

I understand what you are talking about, I just disagree with the notion that you are putting forth. Mafia can read those roles all the same and what you seem to be suggesting really doesn't matter because anyone can apply to what you're talking about. It is irrelevant to the cases I make. Where it has been relevant, I have noted it.

We both are probably feeling like slamming our heads into a wall thinking the other is being obtuse. Just read what I have said on the matter and really think it over, you should be able to come to the same conclusion I did in your case.

S~V~S wrote:

Soneji wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Soneji wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Soneji, have you read those beary essential roles yet?

I read them earlier, didn't see anything too important that I hadn't already noted.

Realy? YOu have mentioned post counts more than once,but a read of the roles gives you no insight?

@ G-Man, You're awesome

A read of the front page gives me no insight, not into anything I didn't already know.

Gotcha.Just expect me to hound you whenever you critique anyone for post count vs.content

Someone can have a high post count and quality content, high post count without much content, low post count and quality content, etc.

My critique is more nuanced than just a straight comparison of post count vs content.

Now its time to feel the burn

S~V~S wrote:

Soneji wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Soneji, have you read those beary essential roles yet?

I read them earlier, didn't see anything too important that I hadn't already noted.

Realy? YOu have mentioned post counts more than once,but a read of the roles gives you no insight?

@ G-Man, You're awesome

A read of the front page gives me no insight, not into anything I didn't already know.

There needs to be a G-Man in every game

S~V~S wrote:Soneji, have you read those beary essential roles yet?

I read them earlier, didn't see anything too important that I hadn't already noted.

Dom wrote:

Soneji wrote:Considering all the other mafia BTSC type posts Wilgy and Matt were making earlier its hard to really say. It looks more like a genuine BTSC post then the others. I looked at the context and it seemed like it could make sense as a continuation of his post prior to that one but then in his next post he says to disregard the last post in a way that makes that implausible.

So.... your position is that you have no position?

My position is that it seems like a genuine mistake of Matt's, both by the content of the post itself and the context of the posts around it. That Wilgy and Matt were doing a bunch of similar mafia BTSC stuff earlier gives me some hesitance but not a whole lot.

Matt

S~V~S wrote:

Soneji wrote:

G-Man wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

G-Man wrote:Call me crazy but
Eloh sorta sounds like she
Is trying too hard

So you want me to start acting like a nut like everyone else then?

It's just a feeling
I'm often a lousy civ
But getting better

There is more to being a good civ than just scumhunting. Keeping up morale is also important.

@SVS: By tolerate I mean that if they continue to do so I will probably try to lead a lynch on them. Someone used the term chaos-seeding earlier and that is how I would describe what Matt and Wilgy were doing earlier. Its behavior that is detrimental to town.

What I meant by her mimicking you, is that if she is mafia she saw your post about how you might have let Llama off the hook and used that same reasoning in her own post as distancing.

I know what you meant. I was in disagreement. It is cultural. We all play Mafia, but sometimes it is bearly the same game.

That certainly seems to be the case. I very much like certain elements of this sites culture, especially its strict banning of role revealing and info dumping but others will take some getting used to. At least players here don't post an absurd amount of times, well with some exceptions...

Considering all the other mafia BTSC type posts Wilgy and Matt were making earlier its hard to really say. It looks more like a genuine BTSC post then the others. I looked at the context and it seemed like it could make sense as a continuation of his post prior to that one but then in his next post he says to disregard the last post in a way that makes that implausible.

G-Man wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

G-Man wrote:Call me crazy but
Eloh sorta sounds like she
Is trying too hard

So you want me to start acting like a nut like everyone else then?

It's just a feeling
I'm often a lousy civ
But getting better

There is more to being a good civ than just scumhunting. Keeping up morale is also important.

@SVS: By tolerate I mean that if they continue to do so I will probably try to lead a lynch on them. Someone used the term chaos-seeding earlier and that is how I would describe what Matt and Wilgy were doing earlier. Its behavior that is detrimental to town.

What I meant by her mimicking you, is that if she is mafia she saw your post about how you might have let Llama off the hook and used that same reasoning in her own post as distancing.

I find myself rather in agreement with Wilgy on Elo, mainly for the tunneling and indirect llama defending through discrediting Sloonei. Her latest interaction with SVS reads to me as her trying to buddy up to SVS by showing how she mimicked her.

I didn't like Wilgy's whole insanity earlier with Matt, its not something I will tolerate for any extended period of time.

Sig seems to really want to push a Matt lynch through with his point about the mafia extra voter, though there are a couple other plausible explanations why it wasn't used. The player with the role not being around or cutting their losses and saving it for later, with maybe a framjob involving Matt in mind. As I said earlier, didn't like his fencesitting on the Llama case.

I read through the roles and didn't see much that seemed to really matter that I wasn't already aware of. I don't generally care about the hinting game but I'll take them into account if I see them, as one of many factors to consider.

@Dom: You, sig and slightly Scotty are the only ones to have pinged me of those alive. I am not caught up fully yet though. Asking for opinions is fine, doing so with a lack of really putting yours out there is not. Its all about context.

S~V~S wrote:Soneji, the same question to you as to Faraday regarding post count re content; have you read the roles?

Generally, I bearly read the roles in any depth, but in this game I was glad I did.

I have skimmed over them. I will look them over more in-depth when I feel its pertinent.

sig wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Putting my vote on thellama

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Both Matt and Long Con are reading Civ to me, so I find Wilgy's accusation of chaos on LC weird. I guess I could vote for Wilgy today, but Sloonei still has my eye.

Why Sloonei? I see nothing alarming there.

I just thought Sloonei's reaction to my criticism of the no lynch option (which I make in basically every game) was a little defensive and OTT. It's only a slight ping, but I don't have anything much stronger to go on right now.

This is the only post I've made that touches on the no lynch discussion at all:

Sloonei wrote:Let's stop talking about no lynches now. Guess what movie I watched last night instead.

Where's the overreaction to llama's involvement? What I did react to, however, was llama's extremely vague comment that Sloonei seems "a little off" as an extrenely weak way of stating a suspicion. He brushed it off by saying it's Day 1, and now he's backing up the suspicion again here with something that is entirely false. The Llama ain't looking good here.

I disagree with llama here, and I dislike his accusation. However, I'm unsure if this makes him mafia. It does seem like he could've been trying to set you up, but as I said I'm not sure if that is the case.


@Wilgy do you want to get lynched day 1?

This post caught my attention as it added too much defense to his own stance. I can't think of the proper word I want to use here but he says hes unsure if this makes Llama mafia twice in this same small post, despite disliking his actions. Its pussyfooting around taking a hard stance. Fence sitting feels like it works out as the term for it, though not the word I wanted to use.

G-Man wrote:Dom posts lots of fluff
But some strong questions in there
Leaning positive

Strong questions like:

Dom wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I've never seen this, so I have no idea about the background, but it should be a great game!

are you bad

Dom wrote:

Scotty wrote:Hi all!

My role is a cute little boy.

Note: I haven't looked at my role yet.

are you bad

Dom wrote:

Quin wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Quin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I have seen Mononoke, I have not seen this. But it looks interesting,I will try this week.

I don't know that it would count as a role claim if everyone did it?

Hosts, sorry if I missed it~ hat do Bath Tokens do?

You wanna know? Should I bring my good ass guesses to this game as well?

Quin, why are you bad this game?

Wilgette are you mafia?

I've been a good boy.

are you bad

Dom wrote:

DrWilgette wrote:

thellama73 wrote: You won't tell us whether you are mafia or not? What possible motivation could you have to be vague on this?

Since you asked nicely, and you're not Wilgy, I will tell you that I am not bad
Could this duck's face lie?

Is Wilgy bad

Dom hasn't really done much in trying to answer the actual question, seems more interested in asking others who should be lynched. Him doing haikus earlier kind of felt like buddying/blending as well.

Its good to know that the reaction to no lynch is still a great litmus test, even on sites other than NF.

thellama73 wrote:

Soneji wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Soneji wrote:The only things that have me slightly pinged at the moment are Sloonei's preemptive excuse for possible inactivity and Scotty's post about being bad at tying shoes. I like G-Man's haikus so far, need about five to six more to really grade him though.

Quin we are some of the few brave souls that understand that the option of No Lynch isn't some boogeyman waiting to destroy town. It has its merits when used sparingly and alongside normal lynch options.

No merits. Evil.

In my experience, its generally those who try to lynch the No Lynch voters that are evil(mafia)

In my experience, it is the ones who try to paint the ones who try to lynch the ones who push the no lynch option as mafia who are actually mafia.

Link me an example.

thellama73 wrote:

Soneji wrote:The only things that have me slightly pinged at the moment are Sloonei's preemptive excuse for possible inactivity and Scotty's post about being bad at tying shoes. I like G-Man's haikus so far, need about five to six more to really grade him though.

Quin we are some of the few brave souls that understand that the option of No Lynch isn't some boogeyman waiting to destroy town. It has its merits when used sparingly and alongside normal lynch options.

No merits. Evil.

In my experience, its generally those who try to lynch the No Lynch voters that are evil(mafia)

The only things that have me slightly pinged at the moment are Sloonei's preemptive excuse for possible inactivity and Scotty's post about being bad at tying shoes. I like G-Man's haikus so far, need about five to six more to really grade him though.

Quin we are some of the few brave souls that understand that the option of No Lynch isn't some boogeyman waiting to destroy town. It has its merits when used sparingly and alongside normal lynch options.