The Syndicate

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:33 am i agree day 1's no lynch tie ruling was a safety net we probably didn't need, but the day 2 lynch was a calculated risk taken by the mayor role, i think that one was fair.

I think in general, roles whose only purpose is to be guaranteed to be harder to kill at night should be limited to like... maybe 1 per game, depending on how many other roles can fuck with the kills.

Or give mafia easy access to strongman kills.

nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:05 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:06 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:21 pm I don't want this to sound critical of Marmot in any way becauase it's not. Just an observation I made this game and a note about personal preference. The reason I felt confident Malakim was town was actually this post:
Spoiler: show
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:06 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:58 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:05 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:04 am A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.
All night kills are automatically janitored.
Oh! Well, that is interesting. Wasn't that way in either Mass Effect or SF, which is why I was surprised. Hmmm.
Yes, many Syndicate games in the past have done this: all nightkills being janitored.

I may reconsider that mechanic in future games, but will continue employing it here.

It wasn't just that he was confused about the nightkill mechanics, but also that he got a response from the host in the thread. It suggested to me that malakim's ignorance of the nightkill mechanics was genuine and that he had no hand in carrying them out, or else Marmot wouldn't have been compelled to respond here. It's a tiny thing, but any host interaction has the potential to reveal information. This one gave me a hint about a player's role that I should not have had.
I hear what you're saying but I don't think that was a big bloop and some people said he could have beeb feigning ignorance. He answered Eloh if the scum team could send in kills as a group or if one person had to.
Did someone say...

Big Bloop?

It's hard to resist the temptation to chit-chat when you're hosting a game. I'm a huge culprit of that myself.

But yeah, a good rule of thumb is to only answer questions when the player adresses you directly in the thread, and not relay any more intormation that what was asked. This way you don't make it obvious whether they know it or not.

By the time I got the "no" result on INH I realized it was a futile effort but it's a free action so whatever.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:34 pm Watching DDL search for Denali is such a sad story with no happy ending

I think I probably played a decent game here. Managed to get people to trust me and added a little to some lynches without tunneling too hard or getting in the way.

So... I am finally not playing a mafia game. For the first time since August.

Feels like freedom.

Also

I now know what bad Jay looks like.

Feels like a weight has been lifted from.my shoulder.

And definitely the most satisfying lynch in this game.

Well nice work civs. Definitely one of the best civ teams Ive ever seen.

And thanks for the gane, Marmot.

Did I just win my third syndicate game as civ in 2017? That's like three games higher than my previous record for civ wins in a year in this site.

I was Logan.

My partner was probably [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] sice I managed to check everyone else except Sloon and Nutella and those have different roles.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:21 am This isn't about the game as much as some things I learned from my role that I couldn't comment in without outing myself.

K2, Pakistan/China (8,611 m) - K2 is the second highest mountain in the world behind Everest, though it is actually far more deadly for mountain climbers (almost 25% death rate). K2 may write a message to the thread each night, warning of danger.
1. before this game I didn't even know Pakistan and China shared a border

2. 25% death rate is a lot lower of a death rate than I expected, I thought mountains were a lot more dangerous than that???? What's the fucking point. :/

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:13 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:11 amScooby Doo
that was probably my favorite thing about this game tbh
Marmot messaged me asking why I wanted to post it, I responded "it's just a really good episode"

The cool thing about K2 is the only mountain nobody has ever climbed to the top in the winter. If you do it you will bascally be the #1 mountain climber in the world.

So those 75% are the wusses who only do it in the summer. Or the people who tried in winter but were smart enough to give up before it was too late.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:54 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:34 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:20 pm I don't call people civ because other people said they're civ. I don't call people scum because other people said they're scum.

I have to see it and feel it for myself.
Nice stab, but you won't convince me. I care more about hard logic than any feeling I get when reading people. Because hard logic is measurable, while gut feeling is very inaccurate. I only use the later when the former fails to solve my problem.

it wasn't a stab, it was an observation of my methods for Kyle. I totally understand why you said what you did now.

Ok sorry thought it was a stab.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:20 pm I don't call people civ because other people said they're civ. I don't call people scum because other people said they're scum.

I have to see it and feel it for myself.

Nice stab, but you won't convince me. I care more about hard logic than any feeling I get when reading people. Because hard logic is measurable, while gut feeling is very inaccurate. I only use the later when the former fails to solve my problem.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:24 pm
well, I had a really vivid dream that DDL was bad... (no really I did lol it was weird)

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:00 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:36 pmGive me one reason why Speed would lie to protect LC.

There is only one baddie left. Not two.
I see two reasons.

1. Indie Speed claims mafia LC as confirmed civ to prevent him from being a lynch Target and ending the game, buying himself time to accomplish whatever task his win condition requires. Opportunity knocks and LC plays along.

2. Mafia Speed bluffs hard to protect himself and remove himself from the lynch priority list by soft-claiming Space Mountain which is actually LC's role, and speed knows this somehow. Speed calls "LC confirmed civ" which takes LC off the priority lynch list and also buys Speed time to do whatever his role is supposed to do to win. LC goes along with it because it appeals to his insatiable thirst for shenanigans.

I don't like 2 because he is hinting jester. Sure town doesn't have a motivation to kill a jester immediately but we don't have a reason to keep him alive either. It's why in some sites survivor claims get policy lynched. They are less of a liability than mafia, but still a liability.

I can see 1, though.

If ninjuu flips town I want Speed dead.

I'm not having a jester in lylo.

If you guys can guess my actual role card I'll be surprised.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:47 pm by that theory, place Kyle in your definitely town list.

I'm already doing that.

Any civ claim by anyone about anyone at this point should be taken as likely correct. It's a matter of logic. Mafia doesn't have reasons to confirm anyone.

At most I can see it as a convoluted play by a jester Speed to increase his chance of being lynched himself but in that case LC isn't even the best person to confirm. I would have said Blooper as civ instead.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:35 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:53 pm Nutella is semi-confirmed and LC is confirmed by Speed assuming Speed is not lieing. That's the only ones I'd call confirmed.
you're confirming LC based on speed, and calling him full on confirmed as opposed to nutella's game mechanically semi-confirmed. why would I trust my enemy's friend?

I think LC is towniest one after me and Kyle but still, your reasons are weirder than mine

Give me one reason why Speed would lie to protect LC.

There is only one baddie left. Not two.

Nutella is semi-confirmed and LC is confirmed by Speed assuming Speed is not lieing. That's the only ones I'd call confirmed.

At this point it's a matter of practicity. Everybody has provided multiple reasons to look both town and scum at this point. Everybody has past team interactions that can ba analysed and roles that can be suspected as. Ninjuu is a while bunch of nothingness and marmot pics. It's not her fault since she joined super late, but she just can't compared to the rest of us in town cred. Everyone else needs to have a put a greater effort to have hidden until this point, ninjuu has put nothing. Everyone needs some level of tinfoiling to build a case on, ninjuu doesn't. We are the people who have managed to avoid or survive scrutiny for nearly a month, ninjuu just happened to jump into a player slot we were not able to scumhunt before.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:22 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:50 am I believe Night 8 was a deliberate non-kill. To make us lynch Sig.

The rest are some combination of inactivity and roles.
If so:

Is it Niju? Did she have a good enough handle on the thread to know and connect that? (I know people were outright stating it, but I don't get the feeling that Niju has kept up with the entire thread.)

She could just read what we were saying at the time.

Also if I were bad and I was in a situation whre I couldn't be caught up, I'd use it to hide the fact that I was noticing some specific things.

I believe Night 8 was a deliberate non-kill. To make us lynch Sig.

The rest are some combination of inactivity and roles.

Well the good news about a failed kill is that we are back to having 3 days to lynch people, even considering mafia having an extra vote and Everest being dead at lylo.

So ninju, then Speed, and then tinfoil.

Well I agree that lynching Blooper is occam's razor. *Votes*

But I miss Sloonei and Epi. They didn't act like people were confirmed ever. This is the kind of thing that gets mafia to win games.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:29 am I'm pretty much confirmed townie

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:56 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:48 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:27 am I don't know why nobody died last night, but chances are slim that they were going for an odd number of players come end game because..they already had it. There have been so many missed night kills in this game that I don't think we can put it up to role usage anymore. I don't think there are even enough relevant roles to account for them.

I'm not bad. You can even sort me if you read my posts. I don't have it in me to come up with a convoluted scum strategy that involves intentionally withholding kills right now. That's pure WIFOM, aye.

I think nijuu is the way to go. I think we've had a low activity scum team from the start. Glorf/INH never showed up. Eloh said she was insanely busy. I recall Wilgy mentioning being out of touch with the game, and kills only started when 3J replaced MP.
What about Sprityo?
sprityo was in this game?

He still is.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:27 am I don't know why nobody died last night, but chances are slim that they were going for an odd number of players come end game because..they already had it. There have been so many missed night kills in this game that I don't think we can put it up to role usage anymore. I don't think there are even enough relevant roles to account for them.

I'm not bad. You can even sort me if you read my posts. I don't have it in me to come up with a convoluted scum strategy that involves intentionally withholding kills right now. That's pure WIFOM, aye.

I think nijuu is the way to go. I think we've had a low activity scum team from the start. Glorf/INH never showed up. Eloh said she was insanely busy. I recall Wilgy mentioning being out of touch with the game, and kills only started when 3J replaced MP.

What about Sprityo?

Well maybe Kyle is not K2, but it's pretty obvious that everyone has noticed something about him and are not saying out loud. I'm aware of my inability to get clues so I try to pay attention at other people getting them.

And speculating about something then not telling people about it is not how I roll as civ. Either I say everything that is in my mind or I don't speculate at all. I don't lie as a civ.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:09 pm also, you should try to place roles on remaining players. it's not as hard as you think if you pay attention. Just don't spectate about it in the thread, but for your theorizing and info, it narrows down that scum list for you.

Sorry I already did.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:03 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:58 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:41 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:24 pm nijuu... or anyone.
right now I wanna live with the theory nijuu is the last scum cos I don't suspect anyone else except chuck and he's almost a self-acclaimed 3p so.....

it would go back to nutella if it's not nijuu.
I'd lynch Quin, LC, Speed or you before Nutella.
cool story bro, but idc

also, you'd lynch speed but you won't lynch LC cos speed knows something....makes sense.

And what about Kyle?

Only one of Speed and LC is bad, not both.

I'm working under the assumption that Kyle is K2, based on the role's text and people's overwhelming lack of disposition to lynch him.

Or maybe not LC since Speed knows something.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:41 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:24 pm nijuu... or anyone.
right now I wanna live with the theory nijuu is the last scum cos I don't suspect anyone else except chuck and he's almost a self-acclaimed 3p so.....

it would go back to nutella if it's not nijuu.

I'd lynch Quin, LC, Speed or you before Nutella.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:23 pm I deleted two posts from an incorrect account.

Silly sockpuppets.

EBWOP: Sutter Buttes, not Matterhorn

Also this is the time to tinfoil about anyone other than Blooper being bad.

If we lynch Blooper/Speed today and don't win we have a problem.

I'd say lynch Blooper first because Speed is likely a jester since it solves the mystery of the Martian. Problem is that he might be bullshitting us. if so this is one of the best gambits in the history of Syndicate.

If Blooper flips civ we have a problem though. Matterhorn's role ruins things. We might have to guess the final scum on Day 11.

Actually I'm stupid. I forgot the last mafia can reduce its own vote. We may not have a Day 12. Or Day 12 may be random.

Ok caught up.

Recipe for the rest of the game:

- Flip a coin.
- If heads lynch Blooper then Speed.
- If tails lynch Speed then Blooper.
- If they are both dead and the game is not over yet then wlecome to lylo. Engage full tinfoil mode and start ISOing everyone.

Do not let Speed live past Day 11 even if you think he is 3P. Do not give him the chance to side with the last mafia on Day 12. He is a jester? Give him the win, he earned it.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:06 pm I know but theorizing and confirming 100% role alignments of other players is not very good right now.

Debatable. If Golden was here he's have already have 100% confirmed almost all players. Some people are good with that (spoiler: I suck).

Ok people this is the deal. Lynch Speed now or lynch speed later. But whatever you do don't leave to lynch Speed at Final 3.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:47 pm Matterhorn:

Matterhorn, Italy/Switzerland (4,478 m) - Matterhorn is known less for its height, and more for its almost perfect pyramidal shape, with 4 ridges rising up to an obvious peak. It is still one of the highest peaks in the European Alps. --- Secrets --- If you manage to finish four separate day periods with 0 votes, you will become immune to all active night actions for the rest of the game.

The stuff in red was not there when the game started.

Wait when did Matterhorn's secrets get revealed?

And why?

Though more savvy hosts tend to add punishments to town if they lynch jesters. This is particulary evil in a closed setup with a hidden jester though, not sure if marmot would be that mean.

I'm probably willing to lynch him even if he's a jester because I don't like the idea of having a second non-civ alive at lylo.

He self votes and it's game over.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:02 pm I've never played with a jester. What does the jester role involve? are they self aligned or town-aligned?

Independent.

Wins the game if they are lynched.

Loses if they are night killed.

Loses if they are alive when the game ends.

Usually lacks any further abilities. Very easy to win as if its existance is unknown. Moderately easy to win as if it's known.

Right now I'm torn on whether Speed is a jester, or mafia doing a wifom thing.

I don't buy the Orizaba thing because I don't see how getting an extra kill now is useful to town.

Though he could be the civ role with secrets.

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