The Syndicate

Cool game. A little imbalanced in the sense mafia probably had way fewer kills than they needed, but overall had a lot of cool roles. Thanks for making it and doing this job for such a long time, Golden and Juliets.

I was never fully involved in this game, sadly. First it was the competition with FE, and the slow nature of it meant whenever I got involved for a few days, I would lose focus again eventually. Also my role being basically unlynchable didn't help much in that regard, since I felt like I owed nothing at all to other players. My default reaction to being suspected was "I'd like to see you try".

Then again, I alwsys thought it would be pretty cool if I lived till lylo and then used my immortality to destroy the mafia in the end. Hence my wanting to get rid of double life players.

Also I assume the extra votes I gave to people made the polls into a complete chaos. I'll check the actions to see what they did lol.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:52 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:14 pm Yellow ducks give me goosebumps.

Where I live it's a symbol associated with the coup we had 2 years ago.
Wait, seriously? That sounds... crazy but intriguing.

It's an interesting story.

Spoiler: show

There is an expression in Portuguese, "pagar o pato", which translates to "pay the duck", which means getting screwed up by someone else's immoral actions.

In 2016, our president (Dilma Roussef, a left-wing politician) was impeached. Leading to the impeachment, there were a series of nation-wide protests, comprised mostly of rich people. Some of these protests were organized by an industrialist association, FIESP. In the protests, they used a giant yellow duck, with the expression "enough of paying the duck", implying that the people were being screwed up by the government.

Spoiler: show

Now whether this impeachment was a coup or not is a subject for debate, at least here. The argument for impeaching Roussef was that she employed some creative accounting to get around the fact the government spent more money in 2015 than it should have. It's technically illegal, but not necessarily criminal, and nothing in the law says that a president has to be impeached or punished for doing that. Then again, an impeachment is a 100% political process, where the congress can start a voting whenever they want and use any reasons they like. If you ask a right-winger, they will call it an impeachment, if you ask a left-winger, they will call it a coup.

What makes it look more like a coup (in my opinion) is a long list of things, but one if the huge double standard regarding corruption. There was a big scandal in 2014 involding corrpution multiple Brazilian companies and government branches, which the media sort of associated with Roussef (though she was never directly implicated) and which helped impeach her. But as soon as the new president (Michel Temer) took over, he immediately fired all of the staff and replaced it for allies of his who were currently being trialed in the same scandal. Then all three powers started vetoing all attempts to investigate corruption as long as they came from right-wing politicians, while being ruthless to crimes from left-wingers, even when minor or umproved. There was even a leaked audio from a minister admitting that the impeachment was part of a "pact" to stop the "bleeding" from the corruption investigations. There is also the matter of ideology. As soon as Temer took over, he immediately turned government policy 180º, doing reforms to take away rights that have existed for nearly a century and cutting all public investment in education and healthcare. Problem is that he was the vice-president, and Roussef only picked him in the first place because his party was too powerful to be ignored (using the US as an example, it's like if Bernie Sanders had to pick HIlary Clinton as VP in order to be accepted by the Dems, and after winning was impeached one year later, and right afterwards HIlary immediately fired his entire staff and started undoing all his policies). Point is, when you vote for a president, you assume that their VP won't do the things the president's political opponents are proposing.

Anyway, the yellow duck thing ended up becoming an expression used by the left to make fun of the right. Whenever there is news of a right-wing politician getting away with corruption, the left will usually mock them by saying something like "why is the yellow duck crew not protesting", like if the people who went to protest in 2016 were fooled or only did it out of ideology.

Yellow ducks give me goosebumps.

Where I live it's a symbol associated with the coup we had 2 years ago.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:53 pm "I wanna get rid of more people with 2 lives" is not a civilian course of action at this stage. It's effectively a scorched earth policy. Blindly eliminating first lives means mafia are free to eliminate people for good.

That's evil talk.

As long as no people have more lives than I do, I'm golden.

(well not THAT golden I mean)

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:31 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:20 pm Yeah it has to be Boom

Least active player among the ones I feel the least good about, stuff other people have pointed out about interactions I'm okay with, more likely to have missed kills... and I wanna get rid of more people with 2 lives. We have enough civs that we can afford to waste more time... even if I wish this game would just end faster.
I don't understand your prejudice here.

I don't want any baddies with 2 lives in lylo, no matter what.

[VOTE: Boomslang] aubergine

Yeah it has to be Boom

Least active player among the ones I feel the least good about, stuff other people have pointed out about interactions I'm okay with, more likely to have missed kills... and I wanna get rid of more people with 2 lives. We have enough civs that we can afford to waste more time... even if I wish this game would just end faster.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:22 pm End this so I can bitch on topic pls

Hey man you don't go on discord anymore?

I'd bet a Pikachu.

Because I think if I was a host and I split the tribes with 6 mafia in one and 2 in the other I'd RNG it again.

Spoiler: show

OMG WE HAVE A SIREN BUTTON

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:24 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:23 pm how.... what. where did the siren come from
You clicked the siren button.

We... have a siren button?

The vote for Kyle above is kind of a sequel for the last Kyle vote tho.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:43 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:51 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:35 amWho does your gut tell you is the killer?
Based on the treatment of the case against me, Scotty. If it's not Scotty then I think it's likely SD and maybe also you? idk.

What are your thoughts on DDL?
wasn't your case was entirely based on a potential tie to me? I actually haven't spent much time or energy paying attention to things players outside of our group of five have said or done recently. i'd have to review him. do you think his behavior regarding my lynch could be indicative or opportunism
Not necessarily, though that’s a large part of it. He does show some seemingly inconsistent behavior toward you, regardless of your alignment, He also seemed to be a passive supporter of my lynch, lending support to the paranoia of others without adding his own thoughts and such. Then there’s the matter of his Night 14 kill that intrigues me.

Eh no I'm pretty sure I made thoughts just fine. You just ignored them and and framed them as "smearing on you" or something like that.

Just because I'm not motivated to write a PhD thesis on why I'm voting doesn't mean I'm not explaining. I'm pretty sure I've justified every single vote I made this game one way or another.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:39 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:00 pm - Dies

Does this mean some baddie thinks I look like a civ?

Took 14 days but I finally accomplished it
This was DDL's reaction to being nightkilled. Eh. I could see this as a staged response if I stare deep into the tunnel.

The day before, when we had our stunted poll, he was one of the few people to cast an actual vote for sprityo:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:13 pm [VOTE: Sprityo] aubergine

First we all agree his activity post death dropped a lot.

Second, I'm willing to policy lynch him on that bastard role claim. If he's telling the truth we at least get rid of a role that could be bad for town, so it's a win-win situation.
I love neither of these reasons. "We all agree his activity dropped" is not a strong justification. We all agree on an observable fact, sure, but that's not something that should be alignment-indicative.
And policy lynching him for maybe holding a bastard role is also weaksauce. I get that this was a bastard poll, but that's not an invitation to cast weak votes.

His real suspect this day was colonialbob, and he continued to push cbob's lynch a little bit the following day, but that was Day 15, aka the Sloonei v. Kyle showdown. DDL parked himself comfortably in the Lynch Sloonei camp that whole day.

Other than that I don't really see any strong suspects from DDL that would merit a nightkill on those grounds. He went after sig a little bit, and cast a vote for LoRab, but she was Strex.

That this kill came on Night 14 might adds to my consideration that this was a self-kill. Day 14, the day of the stunted poll, disrupted what had been a mounting campaign to lynch one of myself, Scotty, or Kyle. It's easy to see the writing on the wall for Evens there, and if there's any last-ditch move that they could pull to score some credibility for their eventual final member, they might want to go for it. There had been a little bit of mounting paranoia about the players with both lives remaining (which would have included DDL at this time), so the sacrifice of a single life might actually stave off some scrutiny and buy him time in a backwards sort of way, to say nothing of the obvious credibility that comes with being nightkilled.
It does not appear that the discussion about this as a potential strategy had picked up before DDL's death, although this was something that we discussed early on in the Cerberus thread, so the idea was at least out there.

This theory requires me to look deep into the tunnel and do some mental gymnastics, but I don't think it's impossible. Given my perception of DDL's interactions with Kyle and vice versa, I still feel like this is an angle at least worth considering. I will continue to listen to any other arguments though. I'm far from certain about this.

I won't argue this back since this is all a bunch of speculation so my answer to it is "eh"

It makes me think you look more civ tho.

[VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:55 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:46 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:09 pm hey

who wants to join my voting block?
What are you thinking?
scum killed my dad SVS so i need someone to replace her

responsibilities include being in consistent agreement on the best lynch candidate, having unwavering trust in one another and being super passive aggressive to anyone not in the circle

currently scouting sloonei for this position but...stay tuned

She insisted this role existed and targetted Speedchuck. Which means she targetted Speedchuck. Which means SVS was the one who originally targetted him, not Nutella. Nutella probably never used her ability.

But the thread result didn't match SVS's personal read of Speed, so she tinfoiled that the ability was fooled somehow and that Speed was scum all along (could still be true technically).

Suddenly the tinfoiling makes some sense.

Kyle needs to go.

If game is not over yet after that then Boom and Cbob are the best targets, maybe followed by Epi and Dom. Daisy and Scotty are possibilities because of the night action elimination thing, but I don't want to lynch them personally.

[quote=Sloonei post_id=430800 time=1523897143 user_id=405

It would be helpful, for me and possibly also for you, if you listed out your reasons for town reading everybody. You only need to do a sentence or a couple of words for everybody, it doesn't need to be a giant thing. If you want, you don't need to listen to me, I'm just some jerk from the internet.
[/quote]

It's okay, i'll answer when I can. Though you are asking for something that is not in my memory I think. I don't remember my entire progression of reads in this game. I'll have to search my own posts.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]

You skipped these posts:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:12 pm I hate this pika2 thing. There is nobody there I wanna lynch.

Then again I think theres nobody I want to lynch anymore. I may have exhausted my own PoE.

If I have to pick from that list it would be one of Epi/Scotty/Kyle I think, because Ive felt good about Daisy all day and you seem to be mechanically confirmed on role 1.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:16 pm Truth is, we are looking at a game with probably 2 civs left, maybe 3. Almost everyone here is civ which is why everybody looks civ at least to me. I take any "X Y and Z are bad" post with ten grains of salt.

So let's do it differently.

People I absolutely will not lynch in the near future:

DDL
SVS
Quin
Sloonei
Spacedaisy
Blooper

People I dont wanna lynch but may have to:

Rest.

There was a time in the gane were I civ read everyone except you and Bob.

Then you got lynched and apparently your role confirmed you, a fact I'd rather believe other people in than dig this 2 month game to check. As for Bob, I got opposition to his lynch which made me think I might be wrong in the reasoning I was using.

So this left me with 0 bad reads whatsoever.

If I am to stay consistent to previous reads like you want me to, I should lynch nobody ever again.

Of course this won't do, so I had to create a new list of reads, where some civs are more lynchable than others. Including Kyle and INH, for example.

Wow. Nice jobs guys.

And whoever used whatever action that made this happen lol

Thats akin to all members of the mafia voting for a person no one else is voting.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I got from Epi's posts was that the people who made vocaroos were... INH and the three strex. Which means all four strex decided they wanted to have a thread linking them and nobody else.

Do you think this is likely?

And how is that likely, while Booms calling his whole team out is not?

[VOTE: ky-le-mii] aubergine

I love Scotty's case on Kyle but I hate how the vocaroo thibg requires the four of them to have created an in-thread connection.

If Booms is not strex for callling his teammates out then the same logic can be used to say INH is not strex.

So I think I will just finish what we started last day and vote kyle.

I'd like to believe killing the last strex won't stop odd night kills because this town is already ridiculously OP at it is and I don't want to image it having that advantage too.

So I assume the evens are likely to inherit the strex's kills.

I will try to be here in the last few hours.

At worse I will pass on catching up and just join discussion.

Good night.

It feels more natural in my language anyway.

(tho yeah I know your name is kyle so Im half messing with you. But I do read it with three sylabs)

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:02 pm wait do you guys read my posts and think "cool it's my good friend ky.... le mii"

Uh....

Yes?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:52 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:36 pm Aubergine kyle
He’s bad. No doubt about it.
So [VOTE: kylemii] aubergine
I don't mind the vote as much as the implication that my screenname counts as 3 syllables :\

Wait

It doesn't?

Boomslang wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:31 am
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:14 pm
Boomslang wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:42 pm Dammit, Epi's analysis is airtight. Vote Kyle aubergine
yuck
So I get yuck when I don't vote Kyle, and I get yuck when I do vote Kyle because I agree with Epi's logic. I can't win. And you wonder why I'm not talking much.

It's not who you vote for, it's whether it looks like you actually want to lynch scum.

Then again we still have 12 players left.

After Kyle is done we can afford to mess around with a few 1-life people before I get paranoid about the 2-life ones again.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:07 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:03 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:15 pm Look Scotty I can't save ya if ya be pissin' errbody off
If Scotty is a civ this is my third or fourth game with him where everyone wants to lynch him and I'm like "why you people voting Scotty wait guys stop for a minute and breathe"
I should probably be lynched early in every game just to be sure.

Oh wait, that already happens.

This game is the longest I've ever been alive.

Meanwhile, Boomslang still has 2 lives and is going to creep his way into endgame.

I'm a full supporter of preventing suspicious 2-life people from creeping their way into endgame.

No mafia game should ever have more than 12 day phases.

Put that on your wall.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:15 pm Look Scotty I can't save ya if ya be pissin' errbody off

If Scotty is a civ this is my third or fourth game with him where everyone wants to lynch him and I'm like "why you people voting Scotty wait guys stop for a minute and breathe"

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:23 pm Of course, this being a traditional mafia game in the year 2018, I seem to be fucking wrong about everything.

Stop wanting to be right about things.

Being smart is more useful for the town than being right.

Just a tip.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:57 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:52 pm If you believe Scotty is Strex, why?

If you believe Scotty is an Even, then who killed him Night 2?

Go.
Inbetween composing my response to Epi's turgid, repetitive wallpost of old, stale, laundry, I thought of responding to this.

Actually, I'm gonna let past me answer this one.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:15 am He was killed on Night 2, correct? This is pure, uncut, WIFOM, but there's been a kinda low-level suspicion brewing ever since the start of the game, or at least I remember someone mentioning it in Cerberus, that scum teams would be willing to nightkill one of their own early on, putting them on their second life, but giving them cover throughout the rest of the game. That's assuming alignments carry over after death, of course, but from my limited perspective, that appears to be the case.

I'm not ruling him out.

I hate this theory.

There are two scum teams. Killing their own gives crappy cover.

I mean literally anyone but most likely Quin

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:24 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:04 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:02 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:00 pm Remind me- was there not a time where Speedchuck was removed from the poll after tribe swap? Am I just misremembering?
He was.

I know because I read the entire damn thread recently.

Yeah, that’s a wildcard. Have we never seen that happen again? Could it have been a random BTS reward? I don’t recall a role reveal giving that. And I don’t think it’s you, Epi. I don’t think it’s Dom, unless his role isn’t really what it says it is
Once again, I'm a donkey.

Quin was killed and shown to be someone immune to anything except kills.

Which goes back to "You/Dom have to be haiku/poll remover"

Or

Some role flip has lied to us.

The later opens a huge can of worms since it could be literally anyone.

Which explains why I never got haiku'd tbh.

Well since you've just role hinted against it it has to be Dom.

Still doesn't explain who haikudude is tho. And DH is dead.

Also my perception of time is weird in this game because some stuff liuterally happened over a month ago.

This won't beat CC123 in length but it will come close.

Unless we strike gold and wipe mafia out with lots of civs left.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:44 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:37 pm Don't do this to me Epi.
Everybody is on the poll today (which still says Night 15).

Everybody was on the poll Day 15.

Lots of people were off the poll Day 14.

I can't really tell with Day 13 without spending more time on this than I care to.

Quin was killed Night 12.

Fine I give you, my role fishing is lazy and sloppy.

Meh.

So the main reason I'm scared about 2-life mafiosos is that I'm running endgame scenarios and they usually end with "auto-lose" when scum has two lives.

Granted there is a good timing to start embargoing people with two lives and might not be now.

But I'd like to keep the number of people with that status below 50% thank you very much.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:31 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:49 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:07 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:02 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:00 pm Holding an AMA for myself because I love attention. I’ll answer anything to the best of my ability, so shoot
Make an argument for Epignosis being bad.

That's not a question, sorry.
I instead have an argument for why he’s good.

I mean, I don’t wanna blow up his spot, but I think Epi has a good role and I want him to stay around to use it again.

Would that suffice?
Epi is the haiku dude.
Day 4:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:35 pm Life- a shit sandwich
The more bread you have on hand,
The less shit you eat

Day 12:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:03 pm DharmaHelper died
He was David Lynch two times
And yet was not lynched
I have spoken in verse twice.

The rules don't say anything about self-targeting that I have seen.

DharmaHelper was all up on my ass roundabout Day 9.

I wasn't speaking in verse at any point around that time.

Go on and marinate on that for a while.

Don't do this to me Epi.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:33 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:29 pm Sorry if I'm being stupid but

How are we sure which kills were made by Evens/Strex?

Did we ever confirm the theory that evens kill on even nights?
Marmot was the blizzard guy that stopped all Night actions and presumably the Night 4 kill. Presumably Marmot would not prevent his own team's kill, since they were out for blood.

Fine.

Sorry if I'm being stupid but

How are we sure which kills were made by Evens/Strex?

Did we ever confirm the theory that evens kill on even nights?

I wanna lynch someone with two lives. I'm starting to be scared of the idea of scum getting with 2 lives to the endgame.

Right now those include Daisy, Booms, Kyle, Epi and INH.

I don't wanna lynch Daisy and probably not Epi but the other three are fair game.

Out of these three Kyle is the one I've felt the least good about. I thought his activity story felt genuine but who cares? Mafia goes inactive then starts caring too. Besides there is the Sprityo PoE thingy.

[VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine

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