The Syndicate

Mp is being lynched as baddie? Why can't I be around when that happens?

a2thezebra wrote:I'm not going to be free until after the lynch.

Bass_the_Clever

Same here.

Roxy

Would love to give her time to defend herself from my latest post but I won't be here when she does.

I'll be away from the internet until the last hour before EoD. I'm thinking whether I should vote now, or make a half-assed catch up at EoD and vote then.

The planet busting thing is making me lean toward the former.

Sig, I've tried to read all of your posts carefully, and something is weirding me out. You have said a few times before that you suspect inactive players:

sig wrote:I'm reading Zebra as civ and I've got Wilgy as a slight mafia read. Besides that I think today has had more civ vs civs arguments and the mafia players are lying low.

sig wrote:Well not bad for Day 1, though I don't like how quickly Matt's wagon developed and the amount of low posters who voted for him.

linki: No he isn't Golden read the EU

Yet, when someone else (me) says the same thing, you say that as a reason to suspect them?

sig wrote:Okay looking at Brian's post out of these seven almost all are null. I'm thinking Golden isn't mafia, but besides that nothing from this list. I think we do have at least one or two mafia member here and I do agree with Dragon these players have had little activity, but this also seems like Dragon is trying to get us to focus on those who haven't posted at all, and this is a good way to lynch civs who are easy lynches and won't attract attention to those who pushed for there lynch if they flip civ.

I'm tone reading Roxy post's as slight civ, I also am unsure if a mafia Roxy would actually say her vote was decided at random. This puts the spotlight on her and I think a mafia Roxy would be less likely to do this and would instead come up with a different reason.

I would at this point rather not lynch a Matt voter based only around the argument that they are lurking.

I could lynch Enrique again today as my opinion of them hasn't changed and in fact him calling me two faced makes me more suspicious of him.
I would like other players opinions on Enrique.

Do you believe in inactives being likely to be mafia, or not? And if you do, don't you think suspecting me for saying the same thing is being a little hypocrite of you? Please elaborate more.

I mean, you did empathize that you still agree with the idea, so it seems you are at least trying to show you are not an hypocrite, and remain consistent. But that could be a calculated move too. It feels to me like you are just throwing the idea around and waiting to see whether you ride on it to lynch someone, or you jump boat (and use it to lynch someone). You already have your #1 suspect (Enrique) that you can keep coming back to if you need to.

I know there is a good chance I'm just being paranoid, but the whole thing just looks fishy to me.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Dom wrote:BAss-- what are you thinking?

I still don't trust zebra. As for Roxy I think it possible the RL is getting in the way of her playing like she normally does. I think if she was bad she would asked to be subbed out so it wouldn't effect her team.

This sounds like Economics all over again. She was busy IRL in that game, but that didn't stop her from throwing incredibly suspicious posts left and right, and eventually flipping mafia.

As I have mentioned before, as much as RL problems can be a real thing, a skilled baddie player can turn them into a tool in the game. You already know you aren't gonna post much, so you plan your posts accordingly.

Anyway, there is a limit to how much the "random vote" can be a reason to lynch her, but in this phase she doesn't seen to be doing much better. A lot of "no u" arguments against Zebra, a not much content other than defending herself.

Do you have any suspects, Roxy?

MacDougall wrote:MPs wall of text is a carefully constructed magnum opus designed to ensure players constantly over-analyse Zebra's posts I reckon. It's a genius scum play because Zebra is eminently lynchable early game yet here has a load of town reads so by doing so Zebra is quite likely to start doing things to raise the ire of other vociferous players. What a smart way to knock off the dominant town player.

MP you devilish fiend.

linki: Yes. I had a leadership seminar at work that I couldn't sneakily play Mafia instead of attending.

Honestly I don't see how it would be really effective at making people suspect Zebra, really. Be paranoid about her posts, sure, but we aren't having a 180º on our view of her unless she does say something really suspicious.

Glorfindel wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers.

I'm sorry but an assertion like this is borderline absurd. I've yet to play in a Mafia game yet where this happened. This is without much doubt one of the lamest attempts at diverting attention to somewhat hapless new players I've seen. Sure, we're a little disoriented playing with people and rules with which we are largely unfamiliar and it's easy to make us look guilty. I'd be really surprised if any of the experienced non-Mafia players here would take any of this seriously and further, it REALLY does little for the credibility of the person making such assertions.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I haven't done an ISO on them, but Glorfindel's vote catches my attention because of his complete lack of explanation of it at the time. He just came in, dropped a vote in the highest voted person at the time and left without saying a thing. Not sure about the others.

Are you able to provide an accurate list of the sequence of the votes on Matt F's bandwagon? I for one would be interested to see it. I don't recall there were so many votes on it when I voted. And AGAIN (because I obviously didn't explain it sufficiently well the first time...) I was at work on Friday and I'd lost track of the deadline. I think when I voted it was only about an hour and a half to go and I simply didn't have the time to detail the explanation for my vote on him - not that there was one - I just thought he came across as suspicious from the tone of his posts. I'm struggling enough with this game thank you very much! I'd appreciate it if you'd grant me the courtesy of cutting me just a little bit of slack as a consequence

It's not absurd, it's entirely likely. I played a game like that not long ago. In a game where about half of the players have low activity, what's the probability of a bunch of them being mafia? Not that low.

I'm pointing this out because there is a tendency in those games to ignore people that don't post much (since they don't give material for us to read) and focus on the big posters who say suspicious stuff every now and then. And if the RNG gods happened to give us mafia teams full of inactive, that behavior will screw us up.

The list of votes is in the poll thread. Matt was leading them at the time.

To be fair, I'm liking your defenses for now, though I'd like to see more of you trying to solve the game, not just defenses.

I'm not cutting you any slack though. Suspecting people is part of the game, deal with it.

sig wrote: Okay looking at Brian's post out of these seven almost all are null. I'm thinking Golden isn't mafia, but besides that nothing from this list. I think we do have at least one or two mafia member here and I do agree with Dragon these players have had little activity, but this also seems like Dragon is trying to get us to focus on those who haven't posted at all, and this is a good way to lynch civs who are easy lynches and won't attract attention to those who pushed for there lynch if they flip civ.

And focusing only in the active ones won't lynch civs? Let's be honest here, we have no idea where the mafia is, whether they are among the actives, inactives or both. I'm just saying we should look at both, and discussing the fact most actives, save very few exceptions, seem to be getting townreads by everyone.

Golden wrote:(Glorfindel, are you Naruto like Savage?)

Nope. He was invited my someone else.

MacDougall wrote:Wow not bad team. Not bad at all.

I noticed you had a drop in activity during the later half of day 1. You were pretty active for most of it, discussing important matters such as Day 0 Votes, or MP's psychology. But when it came down to deciding who to lynch, you vanished and missed the vote. Were you busy irl yerterday?

Glorfindel wrote:Forgive me Guys but am I to understand there is some criticism of me voting down MattF (a bad guy) without having made a whole bunch of wild accusations for the entire first day phase when there are some players that didn't even vote at all? For what it's worth, I only realised when I came on this morning how close the deadline was and decided to go on instinct (something which has in the past stood me in good stead - I'm sure Sig will vouch for that...).

Well, the issue is that we are not hunting for just one mafioso, we are hunting for eight. There can be mafia among Matt voters, Enrique voters, spread voters and/or non-voters, and likely all of them. We have to look for each of them separately and find the most suspicious one.

For that matter, I want to ask: why didn't you say anything about your Matt vote yesterday? Why only now, after he is dead? I mean, not that you have the OBLIGATION of writing something on it, but the way you did, it gave me the impression that you were just being opportunistic. Like, you spend the day having trouble to catch up, which is understandable, but you had enough of an understanding of the game to be able to vote for the guy who was the most likely to be lynched, and nothing more than that. It's suspicious to me.

bcornett24 wrote:You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

Well, I think this is what pinged me the most at the end of Day 1. Let's put something in perspective: we did not lynch mafia last day. We lynched someone who didn't belong to either scum team, and from their perspective, Matt could have easily been civ.

So good work town, but also good work mafia. There might be a mafioso among one of the players who attracted the most heat (Enrique, Russ, Bass), but otherwise, most mafiosos have successfully blended in.

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers. I didn't think much about that idea, but after this lynch I think it's the most likely. While the majority of the most active posters are civ, since I'm having trouble reading them as scum, and most people seem to be having the same trouble. Heck, looking at MP's lastest rainbow list, you'll notice all the people at the bottom are low post ones, which reflects that. Of course, we could have some Master Blenders among the high posters, but those should be the exception.

Anyway, looking at the Matt voters, there are indeed 5/7 players with low activity here. At the risk of sounding like an hypocrite since I also voted for him, I think chances are there are mafia among those, maybe multiple of those. It's an easy vote, the guy was being suspected by about everyone, the bandwagon was forming, and a mafioso could think he belonged to the opposing team, since he was so obviously suspicious.

I haven't done an ISO on them, but Glorfindel's vote catches my attention because of his complete lack of explanation of it at the time. He just came in, dropped a vote in the highest voted person at the time and left without saying a thing. Not sure about the others. Ninjuu made one big post which seemed pretty civ-ish to me. Dom, Sorsha and Roxy are people I barely remember posting, with Dom being a little higher of a poster but I can't remember anything remarkable he has said or done. I encourage people to look at their posts, though I'm not sure when I'll be able to do that myself.

Also we had a whopping 9 people missing the poll, from about-to-be-replaced absolute lurkers like Mishimeals, to simply low posters like Bubbles and Savage. I bet there are mafia among those 9. I see some names in the player list that I can't for the life of me remember who they are. Who the hell is Wigly? Who is TheFloyd? What about Luke11646? Seriously, WHO ARE THOSE PEOPLE?

Look to their posts, if they have any, look for fishy stuff, and make them talk. We can't let this turn into a situation where civs kill each other while mafia stands on the background, watching while eating popcorn.

MovingPictures07 wrote:On that note, DDL, what is your gut evaluation of Savage?

Well, I'm kind of torn on him. His activity has been low, but he said he wouldn't post much in the first two days. I mean, he posted little and most of his posts were about forum mechanics. But the last 2 posts were useful ones, and felt like he was trying to contribute. He comes from a forum where voting is usually not mandatory (we don't have participation scores), so chances are he didn't even bother to vote in the poll because he's still getting used to the game.

If this was NF I'd be attacking him for low activity and lurking, but the context here is completely different so I'm giving him a pass.

He has a talent for lurking when he wants to. If you asked me about him in June, I'd have told you he is the biggest lurker to ever join the mafia multiverse. But in the past few months he kind of came back from retirement, and has been playing most games seriously.

I've read him successfully in the past, and also have completely failed to do so in other times. He doesn't have a very distinct meta. He isn't the best of players, but every now and then he pulls out a great game, such as in the Shingeki no Kyojin game where he got a town killer role and he solo'd half of the baddies by himself. He seems to have a good hang of how to read my meta.

I guess my read here is slightly civ, but not much.

bcornett24 wrote:Talk about a hit and run...

Sorry dude, but real life happened. So I tried to optimize my time and focus on looking at Matt's posts and rationalizing the vote (since I had already been wanting to lynch him since the morning), which other discussions being postponed for later on.

Golden wrote:Not-canon!

I decided to buy the new 'canon' Star Wars book set after the Return of the Jedi.

I'm 100 pages in and I already can barely cope with any more of it. I'm not sure why I did it.

There is a comic book series of this new canon that's decent, it's called "shattered empire". And it's only 4 issues long, which is short for a comic book.

I mean, it feels like filler and it's littered with mindless fanservice, but at least it's cool fanservice.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Warning: Monday is a huge deadline for me and this week hasn't been as productive as I wanted (being sick and all), so my Day 2 activity is likely to be spotty at best, despite my obsession. I'll try my best to weigh in and facilitate discussion when I can though.

I have a few more posts I wanted to respond to over the next half hour or so though, so I'm going to do that. instead of making a giant post out of them, I'll just take them a post at a time, since Enrique indicated my long spoilered posts are rough on the eyes. I want my content being read at a 30% rate instead of a 10% rate, so I want to make it easily readable. :P If you have an opinion on many MP posts v. one giant MP post, feel free to weigh in at any time.

Same here. Don't expect Death and Taxes levels of activity from me because that simply ain't happening. At least till day 5 or so.

ANyway, catching up.

Damn it Bobba Fett was the main reason I signed up for this game.

I'm not a fanboy but the role was so cool.

Well nice work town.

Ok I'm busy irl right now so I can't keep up with recent discussion. Will answer questions tomorrow.

Matt F wrote: Dragon - Again, so...If I don't contribute, I get sussed by folks, if I do contribute, I get sussed by people. Peachy.

This answer is incredibly simplistic and ignores the main point I made about you. It's not the contribution, it's the way you did it. It felt artificial. And it felt like you were only doing it to spite Zebra. And finally, it had limited usefulness since, like Enrique, you seem to be more interested in analysing people's day 0 vote than their posts and behavior.

I don't have time to look for posts but I'm generally not liking how you defend yourself. You overreacted on the Death Star thing and you seem to be making it too personal about Zebra.

You are not as strong a bad read as you could, but it's good enough for day 1. A lot of your anger and jokery could be legit, but my gut feeling says it's not.

Goodbye.

votes Matt

See you tomorrow people.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Like I said, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to follow you guys...

You're not wrong, Glorfindel, this is an unusually heated Day 1, and I haven't been able to follow along just yet either. I will have no access to Mafia again until after the poll ends, and I haven't been able to immerse myself in the ongoing saga here, so I'll just vote BR because she's busy hosting another game.

GTH evaluation of this post (and DFaraday in general):

What is it, folks? I'm curious.

Inconclusive. He is simply too busy for mafia right now and his alignment is unreadable at this point.

On the other question, I think Zebra is town, mainly because she seems to be playing a very risky game and that tends to be a town read for me.

Catching up. Vote coming as soon as I'm done.

Why is this game always dead when I'm here, but suddenly gets 4928575734986793467 posts when I'm not?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:You seem more wrried about day 0 votes than any other aspect of the game, and like I said, I see that as a waste of time.

If you wanna contribute, you don't have to do it because people are demanding you to, and you don't have to go full supatown and flood the thread with opinions on EVERYONE if you don't want to. You just help with whatever you can, whenever you can.

Oh just to make it clear, this sentence was adressed at Matt, not Golden. I realize the way I wrote the paragraph was kind of awkward.

Matt F wrote:Bass

Nothin' much. This is hypocritical because I just literally "lol"'d at a couple of quotes and I do it regularly, but how often does Bass "lol" in his posts? Of his six, four of them he's laughing and not much else. Nervous laughter perhaps?

Since Zebra wouldn't have a case if I didn't include the words "Death" and "Star" in my posts, I'll mention Bass didn't want to go to the Death Star because he thinks it would be bad news.

Anyway, I have no read on Bass. If I was forced to pick, I'd say bad but no real reason why.

This post sounded like passive agression to me. Are you writing those ISOs because you want to give your opinions on players, or because Zebra said you weren't contributing and now you want to throw that into her face? Was this particular post to talk about your opinion on Bass, or to keep throwing shit on Zebra?

Honestly, the whole "Death Star" debacle is a huge waste of time. I refuse to consider any Day 0 votes as evidence to anything, simply because they were all completely uninformed. But your reactions to this whole debacle are what are pinging me hard. It feels like you are trying to make yourself a victim because people picked on you for the Death Star posts, and that is scummy behavior to me.

Also:

Golden wrote:Every single one of your isos has read disingenuous to me, without exception. They feel like false reads for the sake of looking town. Even your town read on me feels like a way for you to pick a fight with me.

I'm pretty much getting the same impression. Matt was saying nothing useful before Zebra pointed that out, and then he suddenly changed from "OT posts only" to "let's make ISOs on EVERYONE", with some ISOs being somewhat half-assed. You seem more wrried about day 0 votes than any other aspect of the game, and like I said, I see that as a waste of time.

If you wanna contribute, you don't have to do it because people are demanding you to, and you don't have to go full supatown and flood the thread with opinions on EVERYONE if you don't want to. You just help with whatever you can, whenever you can.

Savage wrote:

Simon wrote:I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

Is indie hunting not a scumtell here? I'm surprised this didn't get that much notice.

I agree, indie hunting should be a big scumtell. I think people are giving Simon a pass because he's kind of new at mafia iirc. But I don't like how this "indie hunting" was his only attempt at contributing to the game until now.

Just to explain, in case Simon doesn't know, indie hunting over mafia hunting is generally counter-productive because an indie can be as big of a threat to mafia as they are to town. And a mafia player would be interested in hunting the indie above all, so people who hunt for indies can be suspicious. Besides, this particular indie doesn't even seem to have the wincon of killing everyone, and could be an useful asset to town.

a2thezebra wrote:

Simon wrote:I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

This post bothered a little more, though. Are you actually agreeing with Simon's proposition, or just questioning it? If you are agreeing, it reeks of opportunism. Jumping on a bad idea from a new player so you can help him lead town in the wrong direction is pretty bad. Then again, it sounds too obvious of a thing for a mafia player to do.

Then in a next post, you are calling Simon scum. And now I'm confused. Do you agree or not agree with him?

Putting this whole exchange aside though, I'm currently having a town read on Zebra, if only because her rant over Golden/Mac's distracting argument seemed like the kind of thing a mafia player would avoid doing. She saw a free chance of pissing people off and turning everyone's attention to her, and took it without a second thought? Way too risky for a mafia player, seriously.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Savage wrote:As of right now, I feel strongest that zebra is town. This is subject to change depending on how others post, but overall it has to do with how contributive her post are and fingering all people she finds suspect/inquires about. My neutral reads would be people like movingpictures07, MacDougall and MetalMarsh89. These are players that I've noticed post since the start of day 1. Not saying others haven't posted, but I mostly view on mobile(gonna have to change that if I plan to play serious) and so I haven't critically read many post and really only remember post if I notice an avatar I see. Which is why I want to re-read the phase when I have time.

As someone who has never played with almost every player here, I'm particularly interested in any elaboration you can provide.

Me too. I'm giving Savage a free pass since he is new here, but he seems kind of disconnected from this game. Then again, he did say some useful points, so maybe it's just how he is choosing to play here. Like, observing, commenting on a few things but not joining most discussions.

I am very bothered that Mac has never replied to this:

Canucklehead wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Regarding Mac's case on MP, I think while it may have some substance to it most of it is just pointing out differences between Mac's and MP's play style. I haven't seen MP do anything yet that has struck me as opportunistic or disingenuous, and I think Mac's case against Enrique is much more convincing.

This is interesting to me, for a few reasons.
1) re: Mac's playstyle. Have you played with Mac a lot before? I've only played with him in World Reborn, and I was not super attentive in that game, but the Mac that I encountered there was NOTHING like this Mac so far (who is reading to me as calm, reasoned, and analytical). Which of these two Jekyll/Hyde sides of Mac is the "real" style, in your opinion? In what way do you see his playstyle as differing form MP's?
2) I didn't read Mac's case on MP (which I thought was good, since I almost always accuse MP of being too hedgey/non-committal, usually on Day 1 ) as accusing him of being "opportunistic" or "disingenuous", but of being overly cautious, non-committal, and wibbly-wobbly (technical term). If you don't agree with Mac's case on "opportunistic and disingenuous" grounds, do you agree with it on "wibbly-wobbly and over-cautious" grounds?

Normally if someone made a comment on my meta like that I'd be all over it, but Mac seems to have missed it. What's your take, Mac? Do you agree your playstyle is really different this game? If so, why?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:MP - On the other hand, MP had 7 posts after it happened and before zebra brought it up. Not only that, but this was MP's response. He didn't comment on it before (not until zebra brought it up saying she was bothered by it). MP agreed he was also bothered by it, though admitted to not knowing how to handle it. But he also awkwardly used the word "also" twice at the very beginning of this post. It looks like sentence restructuring, meaning MP was trying to pick his words.

Nice point. You using your own early vote to try to gauge reactions can be a good tactic, and it's making me read you as town. I now apologize for being rude to you in me previous post about how people "shouldn't care" about your early votes. I guess I should wait till I have read everything before I start replying.

In any case, I think you might be overreacting MP's "awkward" post thing though. Civs also worry about picking their words all the time. His response is pretty reasonable though it would also be easy to say it if he were mafia, so it doesn't ping me either way.

Ok finally finished catching up and I have 10 tabs opened on my browser with stuff I wanna reply too. This will be fun.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Where's Simon?

Simon lost tablet privileges today for killing his sister in Minecraft after several warnings not to. I was just about to call him and let him use my computer. Is that cheating as a mom?

I don't know, but my young niece and nephew went through this exact same process when I visited them last summer: killing each other in Minecraft. :P

This reminds me so much of myself playing videogames with my sister as a kid.

a2thezebra wrote:

Simon wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Simon wrote:I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

We should ask them. Russ, are you Boba Fett?

I'm interested in why you picked Russ first to ask.

This is funny in hindsight since Russ was the serial killer in the last game I played here. And pretty much pwned everyone.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Placing a vote so early in the day phase should be a topic of conversation. It's the most exciting thing to happen so far. Why did nobody else consider it so until zebra had to bring it up again?

Because if you do that every game, people will stop caring.

It's like wondering why people don't argue with Vompatti anymore.

Catching up, replying/commenting on stuff as I go.

MacDougall wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Aren't the Jabbas supposed to be a mafia team, not independents? We should be hunting for them.

The point was that for someone to identify a specific faction as a target read scum genuinely hunting scum.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also this "gun to the head" thing is something MP does all the time. He assumes someone is pointing a gun to his head to ask for his reads, then writes a wall of text on them. Otherwise, he asks other people to give him their "gun to the head" reads.

Btw MP, any rainbow lists yet?

Strange that of all the things I posted you replied to these two points only, considering one was the shortest post and the other was the jokey first bit. Do you have no interest in reading entire civ cases DDL?

The hell? I don't have to reply to every single thing you post in this game, specially if they are not adressed at me. I'll only reply if I feel like I can add something useful to the discussion.

MacDougall wrote:And what was MP's alignment in the game you are referring to?

I've never seen MP not being town.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:OT posts are not always a bad thing to catch out scum on. I often get pinged by people talking about other stuff, if it seems like it's in lieu of actual contribution or seems like a forced line of dialogue. But largely that's a reasonable response DDL.

The point of the OT tags is to say something that can't be used against you.

Now if every single post someone makes is green, that's a different story.

Or you can do like a certain marmot: never use OT tags at all, and leave people guessing whether you are being serious or not (which is less than 10% of the time).

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also this "gun to the head" thing is something MP does all the time. He assumes someone is pointing a gun to his head to ask for his reads, then writes a wall of text on them. Otherwise, he asks other people to give him their "gun to the head" reads.

Btw MP, any rainbow lists yet?

MP does this all the time? Where did you learn this?

Some time between the seventh and the eigth time I was asked to provide a gun to the head of someone during the first game I played here.

Also this "gun to the head" thing is something MP does all the time. He assumes someone is pointing a gun to his head to ask for his reads, then writes a wall of text on them. Otherwise, he asks other people to give him their "gun to the head" reads.

Btw MP, any rainbow lists yet?

Aren't the Jabbas supposed to be a mafia team, not independents? We should be hunting for them.

Look, if you wanna suspect people for the most random things and point that out, then by all means, be my guest.

But if I think some of those suspicions are misguided, I will point that out too, and I will point flaws in the person's logic.

When I say "chill", it's not as much as wanting zebra to stop (honestly, I don't mind either way, and I agree with you that dialogue is always useful), than it is to point something weird in her logic, and disagree with her method. Matt's post was an obvious OT post, and she responded very seriously to him. I also feel like she is going too far in some conclusions, like the whole thing about myself trying to "look useful". So I pointed that out too. I don't want people to stop talking, but if I feel people are taking the discussion to a wrong direction, and accusing people based on what I think is faulty logic, I will let them know it and I will attempt to change that direction.

Also just to make it clear: at this point, I don't think that's enough to suspect zebra more than just a ping, since a lot of my logical disagreement could be due to different playstyles. But she is rubbing me the wrong way.

(also I didn't know zebra was a "she" until your post, lol)

Spoiler: show

Russtifinko wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

Well I got someone to start baddie hunting, so I guess it was successful in that sense at least.

Well I like to discuss tactics. Not the first game I've done that. In any case, I have no intention of using such methods as failproof evidence of anyone being mafia, while ignoring other evidence. I just want to have them in mind in case we need to use them later, or maybe help people have their own ideas on how we can use the game mechanics to find mafia.

I get what you're saying DDL, and I appreciate your efforts to look for certain strategies (assuming these efforts are genuine, but I'll get to that in a bit), but I don't think I fully understand your logic here.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

DFaraday wrote:I'm sure there would be plenty of civs as well as baddies who would avoid voting rather than risk being the last vote, so I'm not sure how that would make a player suspicious. Placing their own interests ahead of the town, sure, but not baddie per se.

Well I'm assuming the empire mafia knows what the planet is going to be destroyed is, so that means they wouldn't have to worry about being the last ones to vote in the other phases, but would have to worry in that specific phase where the planet explodes. I'm speculating that we could try to find that pattern. Of course there would be other players avoiding voting last, so it wouldn't be a conclusive evidence.

Of course, now that I've said that, they could also worry about it in every single phase just to attempt to mask the pattrn. Then again, if I get mafiosos to play in a non-optimal way just to avoid being found, that's a profit.

I love metagaming.

I agree with DFaraday. But more importantly, how would we able to find a pattern? What pattern? Assuming you're right and the empire knows which planet will be destroyed (which I wouldn't be too sure that that assumption is correct) that only means, as you said, they would only have to be cautious with that particular planet. One planet. So where's the pattern we're looking for? And you seem to be tip-toeing a bit here with your reasoning. Proposing a method of finding baddies only to follow it up with "so it wouldn't be conclusive evidence" makes me wonder why bring up that potential tactic in the first place? It seems like you're just saying things like this to appear as if you're contributing. And you make it worse by excusing that this imaginary pattern could be copied for each phase, so again, what's the point? And finally, how would you, and you mention you specifically rather than town as a whole, (why?) be able to get mafiosos to play in an unorthodox way to be spotted? Or am I simply misunderstanding your reasoning here? Please help me out here. Finally, to return to the original post:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Not the first game I've done that.

I'm not a fan of players hiding behind their meta especially in response to slight pings. Consider me slightly pinged as well.

zebra, I'm actually NOT pinged by DDL's logic here. He's right - if Tarkin chose one planet that gets blown up, the baddies know which one it is, so you can be damned sure they'll avoid voting last at that planet and only that planet. The rest of us will try not to vote last on EVERY planet. So if DDL hadn't said anything, we could've looked hindsight to see if anyone who normally votes late voted early on the day the planet blew up.

What pinged me was that he blew this angle by explaining it, and then went hyper-meta with it. And I'm also slightly pinged that you were so quick to join me here, but with a different point.

Okay I'll admit I kind of made a mistake there. I said what was on my mind, then I realized saying it might have ruined it, so I tried to find a silver lining by talking about the metagame thing, which admitelly I still think might work.

As for the thing about "tip-toeing" thing zebra accused me off, the thing is, I just wanted to make it clear I don't actually think this plan should be a way to spot mafia with 100% certainity. After I posted, I realized it was rubbing some people the wrong way. And I realized I might have become suspicious since I was proposing a "miraculous" way of finding mafia that many might disagree with (something people usually tend to suspect), so I tried to defuse the situation by making it clear I'm just suggesting a tool, not trying to make it the main way of finding mafia.

Also zebra, you keep accusing me of "trying to look like I'm contributing", but really you should look at the context of my posts. Who else was contributing on day 0? There was absolutely nothing to talk about back then, no debate going on, and I tried to spark a discussion to get the game moving, even if such a discussion was not directly useful to baddie hunting at first. Well, I work with what I've got. I wasn't trying to "look" contributive", I was trying to get the game out of day 0 stasis.

I think you're jumping too fast on people, honestly. Not just the (admitelly valid) suspicions on me, but also stuff like this:

a2thezebra wrote:

Matt F wrote:Why are we being mean to Dragon? He voted Death Star

You're taking this Death Star enthusiasm to an uncomfortable extreme, Matt. Are you saying everyone who voted for the Death Star should be ignored when they appear suspicious?

You quoted what was a obvious joke post and tried to turn it into evidence. Like... chill. Not evey post from every player has to be mafia slipping. Like someone else said, it feels like you are all over the place.

No thanksgiving where I live, so it doesn't matter either way.

Russtifinko wrote:2) DDL, I can't decide whether it's civ-ish or a baddie move to run through all the possible ways you'd catch a baddie based on the planet mechanic before we get a chance to actually use any of the methods. Consider me slightly pinged, there.

Well I got someone to start baddie hunting, so I guess it was successful in that sense at least.

Well I like to discuss tactics. Not the first game I've done that. In any case, I have no intention of using such methods as failproof evidence of anyone being mafia, while ignoring other evidence. I just want to have them in mind in case we need to use them later, or maybe help people have their own ideas on how we can use the game mechanics to find mafia.

I don't think being hosts will stop them from making trouble, though.

Golden wrote:The number next to you includes non players who vote in the non player option...

Plus, I think it only matters if you are last on the LYNCH poll, if I read the role correctly. So I don't think being last today matters.

NF doesn't have lynch polls, that's probably why he's confused.

DFaraday wrote:I'm sure there would be plenty of civs as well as baddies who would avoid voting rather than risk being the last vote, so I'm not sure how that would make a player suspicious. Placing their own interests ahead of the town, sure, but not baddie per se.

Well I'm assuming the empire mafia knows what the planet is going to be destroyed is, so that means they wouldn't have to worry about being the last ones to vote in the other phases, but would have to worry in that specific phase where the planet explodes. I'm speculating that we could try to find that pattern. Of course there would be other players avoiding voting last, so it wouldn't be a conclusive evidence.

Of course, now that I've said that, they could also worry about it in every single phase just to attempt to mask the pattrn. Then again, if I get mafiosos to play in a non-optimal way just to avoid being found, that's a profit.

I love metagaming.

Epignosis wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I wonder how this works if people fail to vote. Who dies, the one who voted last or the one who didn't vote at all? Can you answer that, hosts?

The one who votes last dies.

Hmm

I suppose if someone dies because of that role, we could try to look at vote patterns and see if there was someone deliberately avoiding the last vote. Or someone who failed to vote despite being active...

Also I meant "die", not " day".

My interpretation is that since we will be on a different planet each day, we will eventually land on the planet that will be destroyed. When that happens, the last voter will day with the planet, possibly because they took too long to leave since they were voting. But this will only happen once in the game.

I wonder how this works if people fail to vote. Who dies, the one who voted last or the one who didn't vote at all? Can you answer that, hosts?

Now I'm thinking the song might be offensive but if that's the case feel free to delete it. Otherwise enjoy.

Okay how do I use those youtube tags again?

Lemme try this.

Hey guys whats up.

Too busy to post today, just checking in. See you at night.

Also voted Death Star because...

[ytubehd]2UltiCqGHj0[/ytubehd]