The Syndicate

nutella OK, I'm back from graduating!! :D and caught up. Zebra, I have no idea how you got so confused but it's pretty weird that you voted without even looking at the poll time. Matt's inexplicable naming of Niju as the Process is perplexing and his refusal to explain it is even more so. Matt tends to be zany but I'm keeping an eye on him for this strange behavior. I think that Drum's alliance proposition is probably a terrible idea and might have nefarious motivations. The Process is just one role/player, so even with its many powers it probably won't be impossible to get rid of, while the Camerata team is a significant threat and more in number for us to take down. I find Drum quite suspicious for the proposal and I also find Elo suspicious for expressing interest in it and then sort of covering her tracks -- although I believe that she wasn't outright agreeing to the plan in the first place but considering it as an option, but it's still kind of surprising that she jumped on it without acknowledging its suspicious nature. There's still a whole day but it's looking likely I'll want to vote for either Drum or Elo. linki @ Drum: huh, I don't really understand, you think the mafia can target specific elements? if they can, will we be told a process element has been eliminated? :shrug2: This all seems pretty speculative, and regardless I largely agree with niju that any degree of alliance/trusting the mafia is too risky especially in such a small game. Aaaand there's a Cell sock account :eek: Her first few posts are related to the theme and her unique knowledge of it; this is her first reads-relevant contribution. She wasn't interested in DrumBeats's proposal and also suspected him to some degree for it. She expressed a desire to vote for either him or Elohcin. She ended up missing the vote. ok, sorry I have not been here, just caught up but it is kinda a blur. RIP zebra and sig. MP, your reasons for suspecting me seem to be mostly the fact that I found Elo and Drum suspicious and that my "relatively strong diction" or whatever. Idk man I was just expressing my reaction to their posts and found them suspicious. After Drum explained what he meant a bit more clearly I don't really suspect him as much, but I've been finding Elo to be more suspicious and it looks like she was sort of evasive yesterday so I will be looking at her today. I haven't gotten particular pings from anyone else but I'm interested in hearing more from Illy, Nero, and Llama. This is the only following substantive post. I don't know that there's much to be drawn from this. ~~~ nutella is a null read. I need more content to be able to make a conclusive judgment...

nijuukyugou Wait how is it STILL Day 1? How are you still confused by the mechanics? What's going on with you, zeebs? This is weird as shit. Linki @ DrumBeats - Your plan, however, at its core, is to trust mafia to any extent, which is not viable. They already have a large team for a speed game with only 17 players. Again, part of the theory works, and I agree we need to keep a hell of an eye on the Process and prevent what we can, but trusting mafia to help civs is not gonna work for a civ win. This is snipped from a larger post. She asserted that Zebra's behavior was "weird as shit", but didn't make a definitive accusation. I'll follow the progression. Her comment @DrumBeats strikes me as a misconstruing of what he was proposing. This came after he reiterated/restated his idea to emphasize that it required no actual trust of the baddie team (because it required them to make the first move). I'm not sure what trust nijuu was suggesting had to exist for this plan to function. I don't know whether that means anything, but it's something nijuu can talk about and perhaps that'll substantiate any resulting read. MP, you've literally added a page since I started reading this evening! Slow down! :P I just wanted to say that before I make a more substantial post. And also I'm here to talk things out for a bit, hooray! I'm definitely not inclined towards the zebra lynch, though - reminds me too much of my Day 1 mislynch in Futurama :suspish: GAHHHH STOP WITH THE LINKI She was opposed to the Zebra lynch towards the end of the day phase. The validity of the point she makes is dependent upon the circumstances of Futurama Day 1. I'd appreciate it if anyone who played in that game could briefly describe this to me so I can judge the parallel being drawn. Regarding zebra, I was thinking about the behavior today. I wonder if she has a role where she has to act confused? Like, all the time? In a very obvious manner, like this one? It is definitely out of character/playstyle for her to be acting like this, but she's also being consistently confused about things that are not confusing, which gives me much pause. Is there a character or mechanic in the actual game that might explain the behavior? Someone also mentioned that the Process could be behind it already (can't remember who), which is something to consider. Part of me is not wanting to ignore weird behavior, but more of me says that blatantly weird behavior on Days 1 is not something mafia does - lying low is their best bet early on. She mused about the possibility that Zebra was somehow forced to behave the way she was, either in her own role or because of the Process. There's a little waffling here (in the form of "part of me/more of me") which isn't terribly inspiring. It can at least be said though that that imbalance amounts to some manner of a stance. Who hasn't yet voted and is currently around? Me! For whom are you considering a vote? Not zebra or Matt. Strongly leaning Eloh because her posts and responses have been inconsistent at best, and disingenuous at worst (especially regarding "not knowing" how Wilgy acted in Spirited Away, thinking Wilgy was cursed, focusing on Matt's weirdness but no one else's, etc. I don't buy it). However, I really really REALLY also want to vote a super low-poster. So many baddies hide on Days 1, and I'm itching to find someone doing so to encourage more speaking and less hiding (and really, less of the "you're acting weird; let's lynch YOU!" attitude that occurs so much early on). Problem is, quietness would be the only thing I'd have to go off of, and a crapshoot isn't what I want either. Conundrum, alas. And yourself? LOL @ Linki - Seems Wilgy's on my level. Dunno what to think of that :P Gotta do the interview thing. Voting Eloh. Two reasons? 1) Posts have appeared disingenuous, as stated beforehand. See other postings. 2) Her vote on zebra is the easy way out, and the explanation (regarding a "slip" that I don't agree happened) smells. She's not the only one to blame for this (really, I don't agree with any of the votes on zebra), but these in combination earn her my vote. Now, off to successful question-answering! Linki - Whoa, seriously. The mind-meld. It's freaking me, out, maaaaaaaaan Towards the end of the day phase she reiterated her distaste for a Zebra lynch and proposed her preferred alternatives (Elohcin or a low poster). In the end she placed her vote on Eloh (2nd). ~~~ This is a tougher read I think. In terms of tone I am not perturbed by her, but there are some points that make me :ponder:. Like some others, this read might be somewhat dependent upon Elohcin's alignment...

MovingPictures07 In fact, I find it a bit dubious that anyone would fail to recognize The Process is (1) one role, and (2) independent, but I suppose it's possible if someone hasn't properly looked at the role listing. So this in particular: An Operator is usually conducting and controlling stuff. It might be the person behind the Process. Im just brainstorming :P I don´t even know if the Process even is controlled by a person. Strikes me as a bit over the top. Not yet. You? Not really. I do think Nero seemed a bit too confused about the game's setup, as I noted in a previous post, and sig seems to be deliberately playing with WIFOM more than usual, but I don't necessarily think those observations make either player worthy of any suspicion. I highlight these posts together because I think there's an inconsistency. The first post shows MP mildly accusing Nero based upon his [mis]understanding of the Process role, and the second seems to deny that it was actual suspicion. MP you should qualify this. Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end? I'm confused at your confusion. This isn't really an "accusation", but it could be perceived as something close. I highlight it to follow the development of MP's treatment of Zebra/the Zebra lynch. zebra and Matt , please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning. Now we're all left in a position where we have to determine the motivation behind zebras's actions, and she has made herself a potential hot button mislynch if she is town, or is blatantly acting in an anti-town fashion if she is mafia. If your intention was reaction baiting, I think there could have been other ways to accomplish this rather than cast a meaningless vote in a game with nonchangeable votes. This post represents an acknowledgment by MP of a potential town and an anti-town mindset to describe Zebra's behavior. This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them . zebra and Matt , please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning. Um whatevs. It was like, 3:00 am last night and I was dead tired, Zeebs votes me and says "wait isn't day supposed to end????" and I read that and start trippin' cuz I'm wondering if there are some kind of "end the day early" shenanis going on, so yeah, I NO U'd the shit out of her "random" vote because I was trippin'. In retrospect, if there was "end the day early" shenanis going on, and by Zeebs, then that would mean she's probably civ because usually civs hold that power, I believe. But again, whatevs, I was tired, I was trippin', I voted dat Zebra. So do you think she's bad or not? I'm unclear on that. MP pressed Matt for his Zebra vote. This displays an effort by MP to better understand the earliest developments that would become the Zebra wagon. I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really. How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything. Elohcin, I don't think this is the right strategy to take. I'm thinking the Process is a single lynchable person with formes. I'll explain in a bit. Catching up, DrumBeats, I am extremely against this idea of the scum and the civilians secretly teaming up. Roles are scarce but given that it's a side mission it's probably safe to assume that mafia has some nightkill ability. What the hell is there in the promise of not killing civilians? Ring of Gyges, folks. Even if given the opportunity to act in unison with the whole group, they have the option of completely screwing over the civilians with a nightkill from the anonymity of this arrangement. Civs could pretty easily be getting themselves into a bind. It sounds like an inherently bad situation where the civilians are going to get the short end of the stick. Also, thoughts re: Cell. So, Cheerleader won the poll yesterday is my guess. Host says the Process will manifest itself in many ways. I'm guessing the Process is manifest in the Cheerleader form now, and it has that ability, and this is why it was revealed. The Cheerleader role also specifies that it can protect a Process element from being nightkilled. And here Cell shows up in the daily lynch section. It seems most likely that possibly the Process is either able to change elements on a daily basis and this will be what reveals the role, is my guess. My original guess was that perhaps by voting the element it would force the Process to change to that element, but given that the Cheerleader role mentions nightkill protection from elements, they're capable of being killed, and this would then prevent the Process from becoming that element. So, we have one element on the lynch list which we could eliminate. But I wonder why Cell specifically shows up, versus other elements, or elements as a whole. Something to do with the Process's selection, or Host's discrimination? Maybe it's what element the Process is planning on taking tomorrow? So, tl;dr, I think the elements are formes that the Process takes, rather than someone being behind it, as someone speculated earlier (don't remember who at the moment, sorry). I think we can vote to kill the element to prevent the Process from taking that forme later, but the Process is still someone out there amongst our ranks. Given that we don't know what the hell the role does and if this is true we're lynching essentially nobody, it's giving the civilians fewer opportunities to nab a baddie early on. In a bigger game I would want to focus more on preserving civilian life without eliminating indiscriminately, but I don't think we have that luxury here. Gotta get on the hunt, or the civs are in trouble. Look at Barry Lyndon. I propose we skip the Cell voting for now. Focus on baddy hunting. Right now, the Process has a defensive element and is less able to do anything serious. This is the moment to strike. Initial reads on the few actives on here have been pretty good. I can follow up more on that if anyone wants. DrumBeat's post about strategy seems to favor the baddies but it only strikes me as marginally pingy. I would be tempted to vote for them, but it's a little too early to have more than just a sinking suspicion on little evidence. Elohcin glomming on to that strategy might be something of note too. Good thoughts here, thanks for your contributions regarding The Process. I'm inclined to agree. So, just so I understand you correctly regarding your reads: You're town reading "the few actives" (who is that exactly?) and you have mafia reads on Elo and DrumBeats for their thoughts on the proposal but minor ones, yeah? What do you make of anyone else, anything? I think it's a decent look that MP pressed agleam for more specificity in his stated reads. Later in the game this kind of thing can be beneficial when interactive reads are being explored because actual names will be present in agleam's posts instead of the vaguer umbrella terms, or at least that's the idea if he answers it. It doesn't appear he did unless I'm missing it, so that's something agleam could account for now. Thanks DB, I feel better about you now that you've expanded your thoughts on it, and I think your insistence in getting people to comprehend and consider your idea is town-minded, even if I'm still not personally sold on it. Wait, I must have missed something though with respect to Zebra. Potential scumslip? My bad, I don't remember you saying anything like that. I think this is a believable progression for MP's read on DrumBeats -- DB made the controversial proposal and MP a good amount of time and posts talking about it with him getting clarifications, and he allowed that discussion to have a meaningful impact upon his read. I think that if a baddie wants to, he/she wouldn't struggle much to shade a town!DrumBeats for that proposal simply because of what it was (the notion that town and baddies could work together on anything at all). Large post containing first rainbow list Humorously, my first thought at a glance is "too many nulls", which is the first thing MP says after the list. So many nulls isn't terribly inspiring, though on the starting half of Day 1 I suppose it could be honest. The more important content here is in the expanded reads rather than the rainbow itself. I'll highlight some of it to talk about in isolation. a2thezebra, DrWilgy, and Matt are all in a similar category to me right now of WTF/???/Null, because they seem to playing outwardly in a way that could be considered anti-town, but I know better about all of them than to believe that such behavior is alignment indicative. I wish zebra would get her head in the game and address some concerns though, and I'd like to see some more from Wilgy and Matt. I don't know what to make of zebra and Matt's votes being cast already, frankly. I could vote for any of these three, maybe, if they fail to contribute anything else during d1 and I don't have any other even remotely confident mafia reads. MP assembled this "WTF/???/Null" pile with Zebra, Wilgy, and Matt. I'm not sure why Matt needs to be lumped in there but the other two were regarded that way by most I think. The yellow highlighted portion reiterates MP's stance that Zebra's behavior shouldn't be perceived as alignment-indicative, perhaps a precursor to his current more emotive admonishments. The orange bit though is contrary to that current mindset MP has adopted -- he said he "could vote for any of these three, maybe..." which would include Zebra. It can be argued whether this constitutes "support" for the lynch, but it's definitely not resistance to it. This is perhaps the most suspicious moment of MP's posts so far and it's something he'll need to answer for. I would consider Elohcin a candidate for my final vote. I do think her treatment of Matt was rather restrictive and it didn't really indicate that she was trying to figure him out -- rather it looked like she took an immediate stance and perhaps even Matt's bait. I'm also not convinced by her response to my assertion that she was a little overzealously interested in DrumBeats's proposal. I've said that this was a unique circumstance which poses a unique reactive challenge to the baddie team. I think it's more believable for people to express at least a little bit of honest paranoia/doubt before easing into the idea. She's responded to that accusation, but I'm not entirely inspired. How is Elo's treatment of Matt different than mine? I'm genuinely curious as to your train of thought here. MP at first seemed unconvinced of people's suspicions of Elohcin, and he pressed me to expand on my own. I think this reflects his desire to substantiate his read on both Elohcin and on me simultaneously, which is a nice look. A question for everyone: Why has there be consideration that Wilgy is cursed (from Elo), but no consideration that zebra is cursed, from anyone other than Matt? I find his "cheerleader" theory more believeable than Wilgy's behavior being forced or fabricated. I haven't fully caught up yet so perhaps I've just not hit it yet. But why does zebra have votes exactly? The only person that has explained a suspicion of her as far as I've seen is DrumBeats. MP joins the "curse" discussion, suggesting it makes more sense to apply that logic to Zebra than to DrWilgy. You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me. My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip. You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip? MP's read on Elohcin deteriorated from positive to negative as the day progressed. I think it's noteworthy in this case that the shift is inspired by Elohcin's treatment of Zebra. MP is becoming more vocally defensive of Zebra at this point, though perhaps not directly (instead indirectly by means of criticizing her opponents). Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing It indicates that Zebra is playing in an unhelpful manner to the town, at least. *votes Zebra* So we're just going to policy lynch her and not discuss anything else? I thought I brought meaningful content to the discussion regarding nutella, and literally NO ONE has commented on it, or anything else I've said about zebra. Why does it seem like no one gives a shit whether zebra is town or not? This is nonsense. All six of zebra's voters, with perhaps the exception of DrumBeats: You're suspicious, regardless of zebra's alignment. zebra was the easy button lynch today. This is stupid. None of you even discussed anything else that I or others have brought to the table, and you've failed to explore other angles and bring them to the table yourself. To pull an Epi, I hate to say that this is a shameful display. MP's displeasure with the Zebra lynch is clear before its resolution. Linking this post to prevent a spoiler within a spoiler MP did try to move the lynch toward someone other than Zebra, primarily by pressing his suspicion of nutella and trying to get immediate feedback on it. This never really materialized. MP Rainbow List #2 Slight Town : AllAlongtheBoardwalk DrumBeats JaggedJimmyJay nijuukyugou Null : a2thezebra agleaminranks DrWilgy Matt reywaS sig thellama73 Slight Mafia : DFaraday Elohcin Illyria Nerolunar nutella Second rainbow addresses the "too much null" problem nicely. The glove compartment isn't accurately named... If Eloh doesn't answer before an hour remains I'll vote her. How does that sound y'all? Works for me. I'll hold off for now. I firmly believe there is at least one mafia within four of the six votes so far on zebra (except for DrumBeats and Matt, not sure there). My preferred lynch is Elohcin. Let's do it then. CFD Elohcin. VOTES ELOHCIN MP is willing to join DrWilgy on the Eloh counterwagon and presses me to do the same. I obliged. I think we can say that MP did make an effort to lynch someone other than Zebra. Overcoming a lead of 6 votes I think it was is not an easy task as close to EOD as we were, but in the end we actually did come within one vote. So it wasn't a wasted or pointless effort. Dammit. RIP zebra. :rip: Most of you zebra voters have some explaining to do. Please respond to my concerns at your convenience. I'm out. Got more database building to do. See you all during Day 2... hopefully. :scared: Linki w/ sig: Hello there! So you were silenced, huh? What are your thoughts on what transpired today? Fucking hell. I voted for her because at the time that was my top suspish. I am so sorry Zebra. Mp, regarding your statement about LA. I can pick up what you are putting down, but I would like some more from her before I get all lynch happy. Okay? Since it is possible that what we vote during the night can/ will impact someone during the day this is going to make it extra tricky. Especially with several "zany" players to begin with.... But why was she your top suspicion? I don't really understand what compelled so many of you to equate "weird" to suspicious. Look where it's led us. I've seen game after game soiled because people think that behavior that can be construed as "weird" is somehow indicative of mafia motivation. Unless you can point to specific posts by zebra and explain to me that she had been acting in a way that was far and above more indicative of her potentially being mafia than everyone else, I consider the vote to be a policy lynch. And such votes should be viewed with heavy suspicion. Why is it that you would like some more time for LA but you didn't give that same leniency to zebra? Why the double standard? Are you protecting a teammate? Again, I'm not trying to be rude, but the fact that a handful of players just outright lynched zebra for acting "weird" is weaksauce, and I intend to take every step necessary to uncover the people who have it out for me and the rest of town, because that's part of the game. I'm not trying to imply that any of you are anything BUT capable of great play. Because you are. In the future, I hope that you all consider that "weird" almost never equates to suspicious unless you have specific reason for believing that player has a more likely chance for their behavior to be motivated by a mafia role card than a townie role card. I did not see any alignment-specific motivation for zebra. In many games over the years, I've very seldom seen one of these Day 1 policy lynches for someone acting "weird" actually catch a mafia member. Furthermore, it makes it difficult to discern the intentions of everyone who voted for zebra in an attempt to uncover whether any of them are mafia or not. It's almost as difficult as discerning the intentions behind a randomized or self vote. I've been following the development of MP's treatment of Zebra with a mind for the fact that it has led to posts like these. MP is highly critical of the Zebra wagon and it's important to judge whether his behavior prior to the Zebra lynch is adequate to foretell this mindset. I agree in principle with MP that the Zebra lynch was not great -- it struck me as uninspired and quite easy. ~~~ MP's sheer effort in this game so far has been rather meteoric. He has dominated the post count from the start, even leaving me in the dust to this point. That's a rare feat. I think he proved in the scrimmage though that effort alone is not enough to earn him a town read, and that his content needs to be critically assessed continually to maximize our chances of figuring him out. I feel that his content in this game so far has been mostly of a positive reflection, and that there's a visible and followable progression in his treatment of Zebra to foretell his current mindset. However, I did find the one discrepancy I noted and I would like MP to address that point...

DrWilgy I'm mafia and I decline your offer Drum. Prior to this post, Doc was primarily goofing around. He did take some stances (called sig bad, Matt good, and MP bad), but it's hard to tell how serious he is. This post itself is a WIFOMburger and I not inclined to take a bite. I think any manifestation of DrWilgy is capable of saying this and my read will be focused on other content. And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way. DF, you hurt me! ;__; I reccomend everyone stop voting Zebra. The easiest lynch day 1 is never mafia. 4 vote lead? Only 1.5 players actively opposing said lynch? Other options mentioned are Eloh and Matt? Perhaps DB? Yet Matt's the only other with votes on him? Hey Eloh, compare Matt's actions this game to mine in Spirited Away for me. How do these compare? Don't lynch Zebra she's my teammate. Doc spoke out against the Zebra lynch before the Eloh counterwagon developed, suggesting that Zebra was "the easiest lynch" available on Day 1. I don't really disagree with that. Given that he spoke out like this and later contributed to the Eloh wagon himself, it could be said that he was a driving force in the attempt to prevent the Zebra lynch. The ramifications of that are probably dependent upon Eloh's alignment. Hmm... Baddies tend to list thier teammates along with others when doing comparisons. If Eloh is bad, I'm thinking Nutella is as well. Over the latter half of Day 1, Doc was providing relevant posts and he appeared to be hunting. This isn't always typical of him, but I don't really see him as one of those players whose meta can be reduced to "try = bad, don't try = good". With that in mind I am inclined to judge his hunting purely at face value, and I think he displays a good mindset for interactive reading. JJJ plz GTH Niju for me. At one point Doc suggested he had a null/GTH baddie read on me, after he pressed me with a few GTH reads. I thought that was a good look for him, that he jumped at me like that to create some pressure before saying why -- it bears the appearance of a genuine attempt to learn more about me and to generate interactive content from me. Regardless of gut feeling. I gave Eloh until the hour was here, and that time is up. Crazy Cake Lady Linki - unknown. GTH me? His vote went to Elohcin (the 1st of her 5 votes) which facilitated the generation of a viable counterwagon to the previously dominating Zebra wagon. I think that's a decent look. At the very least this has closed the gap and left the remaining voters in a more pressured position. :dark: I too am interested to see what my scumm8s will do. :beer: Doc is a fast food WIFOMburger joint in this game. So... you are meaning to tell me that you were both silenced and vote locked? That seems like some shit. Why would that have happened to you Sig? Similar to agleam, I am not sure DrWilgy would throw all this shade at sig and then promptly kill him. Seems counterproductive. ~~~ Overall I think DrWilgy looks pretty good. He's a bucket of WIFOM, but I don't really care about that anyway...

AllAlongTheBoardwalk Was this revealed before? Or did it pop up after Night 0? Farrah Yon-Dale Switch ( )- Others might fear The Process, but you have something for that. Switch one element of The Process each Night, and you will have control over it the next Day. I suggested earlier in the game that I thought it was a nice look that AATB was paying close enough attention to the developments in the OP to notice this before anyone else (at least before anyone said it). Well, that was a lot to read...skimmed some of it there, but I'm mostly caught up now. I think JaggedJimmyJay and MovingPictures07 are good. I like the back and forth discussion, even if it ends up creating way more content than I want to read, and I'm taking DB's word that he was being sarcastic and tabling that discussion. As for my vote, I'm leaning Wigly just because of his (or her?) weird behavior. And I'm not super experienced by any means , but I see no good reasoning for calling yourself mafia. Playing weird or 'fake' outing yourself because its funny isn't an adequate defense of this to me. Thoughts on this? As of now that's where my vote is, but I will consider alternatives. And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way. So because you interpret this behavior to be within zebra's meta, but Wilgy's is in within meta, then zebra's behavior being "weird" makes her worthy of your vote? How is that logical at all? Weird DOES NOT EQUAL suspicious. Can anyone actually explain to me the mafia motivation behind zebra's actions? Just saw this. I agree that weird doesn't mean someone is bad. But is also easily used as an excuse. If someone says they're mafia, I need more reason than he's being silly to not vote for them. I bring up this post because of the highlighted portion. AATB or anyone else who might know: about how many Mafia games have you played before? I'll hold my thoughts about these two posts until an answer is provided. Vote: Elohcin [/b] It's late, I need to vote. And I somewhat trust the opinions of yourself and moving pictures. Jumping on this train and voting ] Vote: Elohcin [/b] as well. He followed two of his town reads for his vote, which is a nice show of team work if he's town. Given that I am also suspicious of Elohcin, I think this is a decent look. Perhaps it'd be better if he took more personal ownership over his vote, but I'd say the ramifications of that are more dependent upon Elohcin's alignment. I guess my real question here is: how would a vote by the Cell for a player possibly be construed as that player being the process? What's the game-logic behind such a move? This reads genuinely to me and suggests that AATB is not the Process. ~~~ I have no immediate beefs with AATB. The points in his favor are relatively minor, so I hope to see an uptick in his rate of contribution to substantiate that read better...

Going through some more ISOs from people who voted anywhere other than Zebra. agleaminranks I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really. How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything. Elohcin, I don't think this is the right strategy to take. I'm thinking the Process is a single lynchable person with formes. I'll explain in a bit. Catching up, DrumBeats, I am extremely against this idea of the scum and the civilians secretly teaming up. Roles are scarce but given that it's a side mission it's probably safe to assume that mafia has some nightkill ability. What the hell is there in the promise of not killing civilians? Ring of Gyges, folks. Even if given the opportunity to act in unison with the whole group, they have the option of completely screwing over the civilians with a nightkill from the anonymity of this arrangement. Civs could pretty easily be getting themselves into a bind. It sounds like an inherently bad situation where the civilians are going to get the short end of the stick. Also, thoughts re: Cell. So, Cheerleader won the poll yesterday is my guess. Host says the Process will manifest itself in many ways. I'm guessing the Process is manifest in the Cheerleader form now, and it has that ability, and this is why it was revealed. The Cheerleader role also specifies that it can protect a Process element from being nightkilled. And here Cell shows up in the daily lynch section. It seems most likely that possibly the Process is either able to change elements on a daily basis and this will be what reveals the role, is my guess. My original guess was that perhaps by voting the element it would force the Process to change to that element, but given that the Cheerleader role mentions nightkill protection from elements, they're capable of being killed, and this would then prevent the Process from becoming that element. So, we have one element on the lynch list which we could eliminate. But I wonder why Cell specifically shows up, versus other elements, or elements as a whole. Something to do with the Process's selection, or Host's discrimination? Maybe it's what element the Process is planning on taking tomorrow? So, tl;dr, I think the elements are formes that the Process takes, rather than someone being behind it, as someone speculated earlier (don't remember who at the moment, sorry). I think we can vote to kill the element to prevent the Process from taking that forme later, but the Process is still someone out there amongst our ranks. Given that we don't know what the hell the role does and if this is true we're lynching essentially nobody, it's giving the civilians fewer opportunities to nab a baddie early on. In a bigger game I would want to focus more on preserving civilian life without eliminating indiscriminately, but I don't think we have that luxury here. Gotta get on the hunt, or the civs are in trouble. Look at Barry Lyndon. I propose we skip the Cell voting for now. Focus on baddy hunting. Right now, the Process has a defensive element and is less able to do anything serious. This is the moment to strike. Initial reads on the few actives on here have been pretty good. I can follow up more on that if anyone wants. DrumBeat's post about strategy seems to favor the baddies but it only strikes me as marginally pingy. I would be tempted to vote for them, but it's a little too early to have more than just a sinking suspicion on little evidence. Elohcin glomming on to that strategy might be something of note too. agleam was probably the player most staunchly opposed to the baddies/townies bargain proposed by DrumBeats. He goes to good lengths to explain his perspective and my immediate inclination is to think he misinterpreted DrumBeats's proposition (primarily overlooking the detail that it'd require waiting for the baddies to make the first move) instead of something more nefarious i.e. a baddie trying to collective civilian credit by yelling about a controversial idea. If there's something suspicious about this post it'd be the bit I highlighted, merely because it's quite a waffle on DrumBeats. agleam seems to cover a wide portion of the reads spectrum here, suggesting that DrumBeats' plan is pro-baddie, but it isn't suspicious, but he could be vote-worthy, but he might not deserve that. Numerous caveats. That's a read I'd like you to restate now please, agleam: what do you think of DrumBeats in the immediate present? As an aside: DrumBeats' plan is a terrible idea, but I don't think it's because he's bad. I have to dash off to work and will be gone for the voting period. Matt . I think your criticisms of zebra and Elo are both crazy and misplaced and I dislike your actions so far. Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing and I'm reading Elo as a helpful civilian right now. You get my vote today. This is his vote for Matt, supported by an perspective that on Day 1 was quite unique and unpopular. He didn't like Matt's Zebra vote, which was mildly unpopular on Day 1 at least from the crowd who didn't partake in it, and he defended Elohcin as a civilian read. I at least appreciate that agleam is willing to take stances that weren't en vogue. A free thinker who vocalizes his unpopular opinions is more often a town trait than a baddie trait I think. These zebra votes are seriously ridiculously suspicious at face value. If you all can't recognize that, then I don't know what to say. Effin' seriously. There was nothing to be gotten out of zebra's posting yesterday. I don't know if she was insanified or just out of it for this game. Maybe both are likely. That wasn't a good lynch at all, she was obviously cursed or something and Wilgy why did you push to lynch me when I couldn't talk. sig, I'm not sure if I buy that you were silenced. I know some sort of night action was in place, but I highly doubt that both you were silenced and zebra was insanified. If you read my analysis of what I think the Process' element for the time was, I don't know if it's possible for the mafia to do both so quickly. I'm just not taking it. Either zebra was insanified or you were silenced, not both. Given that poor zebra flipped civilian you're not looking too hot to me. :eye: It seems to me like the nighttime vote is to reveal one of the Process' elements? A reasonable use of the nighttime I think. This is perhaps WIFOM, but I kind of doubt agleam would throw all this shade at sig and then promptly kill him as a baddie. That's a nice look. ~~~ I think he looks okay for the most part. I made one point that I'd like him to address related to the highlighted content in the first post...

When did Day 1 votes become such serious business around here? I recall a time when half the field would randomize on Day 1 and nobody thought it weak, when Jason Maher would vote himself every Day 1 and nobody complained, and actually having a substantial reason for voting that early was unusual. Did something change, or am I severely misremembering, because I still don't approach Day 1 with that much analysis. Something apparently changed, and thank goodness for that. The Day 1 you're describing sounds abysmal. :...

In the immediate present my strongest suspicion remains on Elohcin. When time permits I'll look into the other players who voted away from Zebra too...

What's striking about the progression of the tally is that there wasn't a great deal of spread. Only two people voted for someone other than Zebra and Elohcin (Zebra being one of them, the other agleaminranks). That smaller Matt wagon sprang up before the Elohcin wagon did too, so it's not as though that's an "off-wagon" paradise. With this in mind the dynamic between the two major wagons can largely define Day 1 and how players can be read now. It's also important to distinguish that the two major wagons did not function as countering wagons often would -- one sprang up and blew up entirely before the other one sprang up and blew up. The Elohcin wagon can be viewed as a counterwagon to Zebra, but the Zebra wagon shouldn't be viewed as a counterwagon to Elohcin. It can perhaps be viewed as a counterwagon to Matt, but that's a reach. This is something to keep in mind moving forward...

In summary I think there's a valid reason to suspect nearly everyone in the Zebra wagon. The only vote that I don't find especially troubling is Matt's. I am sure not everyone else in that wagon is a baddie, so it's important that everyone involved say their piece and enable a fuller conversation...

Continuing the previous exercise: Elohcin (4th vote) I just finished watching Angel. I'm curious Illyria, is your name taken from the demon of the same name from that show? Oops! I randomized and got Matt! Sorry Matt! Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end? This tells me a few things. #1) You didn't read page one with the rules/roles/etc. #2) You didn't click on view results and see that no one else had voted yet before placing your randomized vote. #3) You most likely didn't read the thread before voting b/c if you had you would see we are not at EoD just from seeing the discussions on hand. #4) You don't care about helping civs to win this game. :eye: Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end? Um what? I'm gonna vote Zebra because if there's some kind of "Day ends early" shenanis, I'd like to try and counter that asap. Wow Zeebs, really? :meany: This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them . (Sorry for the long post, but there was a lot that went on while I was sleeping :D) But how can we trust you? Are you speaking for the baddies? This has got to be the most confusing game I've ever played. I'm sorry Zeebs, but this seems like such an act. You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me. My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip. And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way. If I had to name the top zany people on this site (right now) it would be Matt, Wilgy, and Zebra. But you are right in that Zebra is extra zany this game. I am going to go ahead and vote that way. ZEBRA You know, I am not going to be distracted by Matt's foolishness this game. I don;t think he is bad. I think he is just zany and his playstyle frustrates me. My top suspect is Zebra and it is not only her overly confused behavior which seems forced and over the top. But it's also her comment about being able to trust DB in his plan to vote for an element if and only if the mafia takes out an element at night instead of a civilian. I believe her question, asking DB if she can trust him/the civs was a baddie slip. You've lost my slight town read. Why do you only consider zebra's question under the interpretation of a baddie slip? B/c DB was talking about how we don;t have to trust mafia to carry out his plan. We just react to their kill. If they kill an element, we vote an element. If they kill a civ, we lynch a person who we think could be Mafia. He kept saying, we don;t have to trust mafia for this. And then Zebra asks (paraphrasing here), how do we know we can trust YOU? I read it as coming from a baddie speaking for the mafia. How can the mafia trust that the civs will vote an element instead of a supposed baddie if the mafia does kill an element. Does that make sense? This is my main reason for voting zebra. The theme that "Zebra is zany and zany is bad" continues with Elohcin, and I remain uninspired. There are always people goofing around in Mafia games or being otherwise "zany" and they can come from any alignment. I need these voters to explain they felt Zebra's "zaniness" in this game was more indicative that it would generally be in your average randomly selected Mafia game. Beyond that, I've highlighted another comment made and pushed by Elohcin. She asserted that Zebra's "how can we trust you?" directed at DrumBeats was a baddie slip. I think this is a highly dubious assertion. That'd be to say that Zebra literally forgot she was posting in the public game thread and asked a self-exposing question. It wouldn't be a "slip", it'd practically be a claim . I don't think brand new players would make that mistake, let alone an experienced player like Zebra. I struggle to believe Elohcin really buys this accusation. ~~~ Nerolunar (5th vote) This game looks interesting. It really does. I will be voting for fetch. No one died on Night 1 ? :omg: I don't understand why a number of people are suspecting me. I'll probably vote for DrumBeats today. Because your confusion is so overblown its actually a little hilarious. Epi´s posts have been explaining everything so far and your confusion makes it look like you aren´t following or don´t care. I won´t feel shame voting for you later. I think Drumbeats´ idea is too risky. The mafia will be too busy trying to weed out civilians and can coordinate better when a situation arises where the option to deal with the Process becomes the only choice. I think we lose more thna we gain, because the mafia will try to kill some civilians along the way, too. Just my two cents. Voting Zebra. Its anti-town at best. At least Wilgy is purposedly funny. This bears a similar appearance to DFaraday's pre-vote justification. The portion I highlighted has the same sort of pre-emptive victim-blaming appearance I mentioned before. The theme here is that Zebra received this vote because her posts made it appear as though she wasn't dedicated to early involvement and that's all that needs to be said. This strikes me as a curious mindset and vote justification because pretty much every Mafia game has at least somebody playing in a "zany" or otherwise unusual manner as I said above. I don't get the impression there was an effort to interact with Zebra and discern her motives, there were just critical comments and votes. That's not ideal. ~~~ DrumBeats (6th vote) But how can we trust you? Explain this sentence. How in any way do we need to trust the mafia for this plan? We will only act after we know they did . No trust. Just a mutual enemy. If we ignore the Process, it will win. Don't be blind here guys. Seriously, I never said we shouldn't scumhunt. I just said we should take out elements of the process too, and proposed that we do it if and only if mafia shoots one instead of one of us. I'm getting scumread for trying to save civ lives and help us achieve our win con rn. Like what the hell. We know the elements are targettable due to the cheerleader's description: Cheerleader- Protect a Process element from all Night actions. Vote is worth 1. Night actions can be used on them. If and only if scum takes advantage of this, then we should take advantage of our ability to lynch them, which is suggested by Cell being on the lynch votes. The fact that the Process responded to me that he doesn't like this is clear that I'm onto something as far as how the mechanics of it work. and @Eloch - That's exactly what I was thinking. I wouldn't be opposed to a zebra lynch as of now. I can't think of any motivation for that sentence other than making we mean scum and you mean town. Trusting me personally has no effect on the logic of said plan. Once again since few people are acknowledging this: My plan only applies after the scum shoots an element first. The plan in no way is a "lets hunt the process while the mafia kills us" its a "hey mafia, you should kill an element instead of us, and if you do we will lynch an element too. We both need the process dead, so while we have the man power it would be best to take care of it early. By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one. The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain. How does this actually address identifying and killing the person behind the role though? By allowing us to hit them when the time comes. I guarantee you at least one of those is something that keeps them safe. If we cut off the Process's power it won't be able to hurt us as much later. Also, if you look at the cheerleader it says that it's vote is worth one. I'm worried that the process will get more votes the longer we wait. We've got nothing to lose, assuming mafia targets them and not a civ first. And in regards to your more recent post, there really is not anything to further this. My only thought on it is that if we do not agree to the terms as a town, I doubt the mafia will target the Process because they would not trust us to keep up our end. Hence why I've been pushing the idea, hoping to save us from a civ shot tonight. Also, MP, what are your thoughts on Zebra and the potential scumslip I mentioned? I'll respond with some more reads in a second but my primary one is scum!Zebra Here are the reads I have atm: Town reads/leans: MovingPictures07 - Seems to be genuinely pushing discussion Elohcin - Active and given me no reason to suspect them. Could be a biased opinion due to them being the one person who actually acknowledged my idea without twisting it into "lets ignore the mafia" JJJ - Seems to be genuinely scumhunting. A little less active than he seems to usually be but he's in a ton of games at once right now iirc. Null reads: DrWigly - How the hell do you read somebody like this Matt - Seems to be different than the conspiracy theory Matt I've seen before, though I'm not sure what that says of his alignment. Very unhelpful and I don't like the early vote, but I'm still not sure here. Scum reads/leans: Zebra - Potential scumslip, plus acting WAY too confused about everything. Has contributed nothing and locked a vote way early. My largest scumread right now. Illyria - Haven't seen much here, but one thing I noticed is that I think Illyria is just skimming. Illyria expressed distaste for my plan saying that we can't trust the mafia and then basically suggested a less civ-beneficial version my plan by saying we should just wait a few days and do it. Should that idea go through it would get rid of scum obligation in removing the threat, which makes me scum lean Illyria a bit. Dependent read: Nutella - Depending on the answer to my last question. I don't have much time to post but wanted to put in my vote before I'm gone for 5 hours. Vote: Zebra DrumBeats also pressed the notion that Zebra might have "slipped". I am doubtful enough about this mindset that I'm inclined to view anyone who espoused it with at least some suspicion. I just don't understand why that post by Zebra had to indicate that she slipped, or even how that thought can be viewed as a reasonable assertion. I can understand someone throwing that accusation at Zebra to get a reaction, but for it to be a sustained angle of suspicion and motivate a vote fully or in part is something else. DrumBeats will need to answer for this...

Given that Zebra was a relatively easy target, it'd seem prudent to look at each of her voters individually to judge whether there were opportunists. That's what I'll be doing over the next few posts. Matt (1st vote) Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end? Um what? I'm gonna vote Zebra because if there's some kind of "Day ends early" shenanis, I'd like to try and counter that asap. Wow Zeebs, really? :meany: This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them . zebra and Matt , please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning. Um whatevs. It was like, 3:00 am last night and I was dead tired, Zeebs votes me and says "wait isn't day supposed to end????" and I read that and start trippin' cuz I'm wondering if there are some kind of "end the day early" shenanis going on, so yeah, I NO U'd the shit out of her "random" vote because I was trippin'. In retrospect, if there was "end the day early" shenanis going on, and by Zeebs, then that would mean she's probably civ because usually civs hold that power, I believe. But again, whatevs, I was tired, I was trippin', I voted dat Zebra. I have no idea what I think about Zebra. I'm wondering wth she meant by "wait wasn't the day supposed to end??" and I'd like her to come back and explain herself. Matt's vote was rather abrupt, coming in response to Zebra's confusion about when the day was supposed to end. The manner in which Matt observed something curious and responded to it with an immediate vote based upon an outside-the-box theory (that Zebra's behavior might be caused by a power that'd end the day early) is distinctly within the realm of Mattalk. That he placed the vote without thinking it through first isn't the best look, but it's also Matt's style to react strongly and severely to things in the moment. I can see this being a town Matt moment. ~~~ Illyria (2nd vote) I just finished watching Angel. I'm curious Illyria, is your name taken from the demon of the same name from that show? Oops! I randomized and got Matt! Indeed it is. She has always been one of my favorite characters. :noble: Why in the world would you do that?? Wait, wasn't the day supposed to end? I'm confused at your confusion. ^^This. I am terrible at reading and remembering roles but it is pretty easy to look at the top of the poll where it tells you the time it ends. :confused2: Whoa, this is coming out of nowhere! No.. no it isn't. I don't know you, so I can't speak to your playstyle but when several people whom I DO know are saying this is not normal, which is matching what my gut is telling me, I am going to listen. I am reading every post, but the real crux is that I don't understand what is going with the game mechanics itself-- I am still not wanting to run w/Drum's plan (too risky) though at least I understand what you are saying better now than I did when you first posted it. Matt, I think you and Elo have very different playstyles which can be problematic. I am reminded that you and I do as well, and you were like a damn dog with a bone decrying I was bad for what.. Four Mafia days?? I was not. I do not trust your instincts. So I am not following an Elo vote. My list of who I suspect right now is not all that clear. So I am going to do a rainbow list like y'all like. In dark colors though, y'all are KILLING my old eyeballs with these neon and bright colors. :sigh: Maybe Good: MP Matt No Idea: Elo JJJ Drum LA llama Rey sig niju nero DF AATB agle Maybe Bad: Dr Wilgy Zebra LA, congrats that is amazing. I am so proud of you! :hugs: *sigh* :sigh: Dr Wilgy, I get that you are "zany", but your playstyle is making me want to vote for you. But I am voting for zebra, I have to go to work and will be at work until 1 am tonight so I am voting now. Their confuzzled demeanor seems fake, and over the top. Votes Zebra There is content prior to her vote which can at least project that it might be coming. Her commentary does primarily amount to Zebra's behavior being abnormal. The rainbow list she provided features two baddie reads, those being arguably the two easiest baddie reads of early Day 1 (Zebra and DrWilgy). There is potential for opportunism here. ~~~ DFaraday (3rd vote) I'm not necessarily opposed to DB's idea, but I don't know if the baddies would actually go along with that, since it would require them to spend NKs on the Process but not the player behind it (or anyone else). We also don't know if DB's NK-then-lynch plan is even how to defeat the process. As far as actual suspicions go, Zebra's weird behavior is striking me as very unhelpful and rather pingy. Matt a bit as well, but at least he's explained himself for the most part. Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing It indicates that Zebra is playing in an unhelpful manner to the town, at least. *votes Zebra* And no, I don't think Wilgy is being very helpful either, but he does this regardless of alignment. I don't recall Zebra ever behaving this way. I'm never terribly inspired when people justify votes with something along the lines of "they're not being helpful to town", because that isn't the same thing as "they're pursuing a pro-baddie agenda". With Zebra's flip in hand this bears the appearance of a sort of pre-emptive blaming of the victim. That's not a great look...

Someone else feel free to do them if you're so inclined (JJJ, I'm looking at you primarily). I'd like to if time permits. It'll have to wait though. I'm focusing on other games while this one is in the night phase...

Lame. Who did you want to lynch sig...

Yeah that's true. It'd technically be a sort of self-vote I guess. It's all very speculative...

What's up with Cell voting for me? I wanting if that will cause anything to happen related to the process? Thoughts? Whether there'll be consequences I couldn't say. Given that Cell voted off-wagons, I think he/she might be trying to get people to WIFOM about whether you're the one that placed the vote. If it's not you. :dark...

What do you like about Doc, MP...

I think a lot of possible discussion surrounding this circumstance is contingent upon the lynch result...

Go Cavaliers...

At the very least this has closed the gap and left the remaining voters in a more pressured position. :dark...

Vote: Elohcin [/b...

Linki: GAH! Down with Elohcin. Whatever folks. Here we go...I have a request. If you vote for me, please list at least 2 reasons why you think I am bad when you vote. I'll list them right now. 1. It's a little hard to believe that you left Doc alone on the assumption that he's cursed given that his behavior was well within his usual parameters. 2. I think you look worse than Matt emerging from the exchanges you've had with him. I don't think you were showing the breadth of a town mindset and that you were restrictive and discrediting in your treatment of his methods...

Regardless of gut feeling. I gave Eloh until the hour was here, and that time is up. Crazy Cake Lady Linki - unknown. GTH me? I'll say town. I think you'd be less likely to engage Mister Gun To Head Reads with demands for gun to head reads if you didn't have a genuine interest in sorting me out...

*reaches behind JJJ's ear and pulls out the ball* I suppose it's because I damn near always think you are town. This time I got a null about you. What do you think might be inspiring that null? What do you perceive to be different...

My preferred lynch is Elohcin...

We have one hour. We need to determine who hasn't voted yet and is present in the thread if there's going to be any real chance of lynching someone other than Zebra. With no vote changes the chance of a "CFD" type event is significantly lower...

Same, *catches the ping pong ball, draws a face on it and tosses it back* I think the spookiest part is my GTH of you is scum. *eats ping pong ball* Pleas try to describe that read, even if it's just your gut...

JJJ plz GTH Niju for me. GTH town. Now you. Same. I wanted to validate my gut feeling. GTH Matt? Town. Now you. *forehands ping pong ball back towards DrWilgy's side of the table...

JJJ plz GTH Niju for me. GTH town. Now you...

MP: is your read on nutella impacted by the shift in your read on Elohcin...

Please show me the treatment you've given Matt that you're referring to and I will judge whether there's a meaningful parallel. Relevant quotes: zebra and Matt , please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning. Now we're all left in a position where we have to determine the motivation behind zebras's actions, and she has made herself a potential hot button mislynch if she is town, or is blatantly acting in an anti-town fashion if she is mafia. If your intention was reaction baiting, I think there could have been other ways to accomplish this rather than cast a meaningless vote in a game with nonchangeable votes. This doesn't help either, Matt. Just b/c someone votes you doesn't mean you have to get them back by voting them. Get them back by making an educated decision about who could be mafia, and vote them . zebra and Matt , please explain why any of the rest of us should believe you're town and why you voted so far ahead of the deadline with essentially baseless reasoning. Um whatevs. It was like, 3:00 am last night and I was dead tired, Zeebs votes me and says "wait isn't day supposed to end????" and I read that and start trippin' cuz I'm wondering if there are some kind of "end the day early" shenanis going on, so yeah, I NO U'd the shit out of her "random" vote because I was trippin'. In retrospect, if there was "end the day early" shenanis going on, and by Zeebs, then that would mean she's probably civ because usually civs hold that power, I believe. But again, whatevs, I was tired, I was trippin', I voted dat Zebra. So do you think she's bad or not? I'm unclear on that. I have no idea what I think about Zebra. I'm wondering wth she meant by "wait wasn't the day supposed to end??" and I'd like her to come back and explain herself. Oh, okay. Well, I agree. Do you have any thoughts on anyone else? Yeah let's lynch the Bloops. She's the Process, right? What makes you think that? Because it's obvi? ????? I would assert that the difference between your treatment of Matt and Elohcin's treatment of Matt is that you asked questions that stood some chance of yielding a reasoned conclusion. Conversely, Elohcin was more critical and seemed less invested in understanding Matt's motivations...

I would consider Elohcin a candidate for my final vote. I do think her treatment of Matt was rather restrictive and it didn't really indicate that she was trying to figure him out -- rather it looked like she took an immediate stance and perhaps even Matt's bait. I'm also not convinced by her response to my assertion that she was a little overzealously interested in DrumBeats's proposal. I've said that this was a unique circumstance which poses a unique reactive challenge to the baddie team. I think it's more believable for people to express at least a little bit of honest paranoia/doubt before easing into the idea. She's responded to that accusation, but I'm not entirely inspired. How is Elo's treatment of Matt different than mine? I'm genuinely curious as to your train of thought here. Please show me the treatment you've given Matt that you're referring to and I will judge whether there's a meaningful parallel...

Can you somehow reword or elaborate upon this? I'm not coming to the same conclusion. Matt threw out the rather arbitrary "nijuu is obviously the Process" bit. There's clearly not going to be a substantive case to support this assertion on Day 1 and I am sure Matt is well aware of that. I don't think it's terribly difficult to find a town mindset behind that move -- it'd be a reaction-baiting read. I do that sort of thing often in games too, especially early. With that in mind, I don't see much evidence that Elohcin was considering the dynamic of what Matt might be doing with an objective or broad enough mindset. I had thought she was outright accusing him for it on the basis that he was just "throwing names out there", though she has since claimed that this was more about playstyle and not an actual baddie read on him. That can be believed or not believed at face value. I do think it's dubious...

Of the two people currently with votes, I would prefer a Zebra lynch over a Matt lynch. I don't really find Matt suspicious and I think at least some of his points against Elohcin are valid. Zebra has gone into full enigma mode which isn't any easier to read than a lurker would be. It strikes me as an uninspired lynch, but it's better than Matt...

"Rather standard meta point": What does that mean? My motivation was to pressure AATB to provide content, hopefully meaningful. I think it accomplished that, so I moved it. I don't understand why that would be seen as mafia compatible instead of town compatible. To make an assertion in one game based upon the content present in another game is the nature of metagaming. I didn't say that it has to be mafia compatible and cannot be town compatible. I said that it was a parallel to an incident I remembered from you in the scrimmage game. I had the thought, I brought it into the thread, and I left you to answer to it. I make specific references to specific moments in other games quite frequently, it's one of my favorite analytic methods and it often reveals at least something about a player's play style whether the assertion being made is correct or incorrect. So what have you uncovered from this? Pretty much just that you don't think the parallel is meaningful and that you seem to harbor doubts about me as a result of my talking about it. You should understand that you've asserted yourself in this game with a meteoric post count compared to other players including me, and especially after seeing what you did in the scrimmage it is imperative that you be critically assessed in whatever ways possible. Before the scrimmage, I might have genuinely been inclined to just hand you a town read given the degree of effort and interaction. I know now that I cannot do that anymore with you and that means I'm going to poke and prod wherever I must to try to distinguish your play...

As an aside: DrumBeats' plan is a terrible idea, but I don't think it's because he's bad. I have to dash off to work and will be gone for the voting period. Matt . I think your criticisms of zebra and Elo are both crazy and misplaced and I dislike your actions so far. Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing and I'm reading Elo as a helpful civilian right now. You get my vote today. Please identify the specific criticisms Matt has made that make you feel this way...

@JJJ, how does it feel to have your name thrown out there with no real accusations to follow? Do you think this is okay behavior in a mafia game or do you think this is laziness? I have been known to hurl accusations with reckless abandon, even accusations I don't believe in as a townie. I don't think that kind of thing is good enough to lynch someone, but it can serve as a springboard for new content that might lead to a more substantive read. llama can explain his accusation or not, I'll judge further after he's had time to do so. linki again @ JJJ - please reread illyria's post. I don't think you are understanding it correctly. I was the host, Illyria was civ, and Mat was civ in the game she is talking about. He went after her, tunneled her for 4 days with no real accusations. He was wrong. If that's the case then I definitely misunderstood her. I thought she was suggesting your reads shouldn't be trusted not Matt's ("I'm not following an Elo vote"). You're right though, she did address Matt to start the post. She meant she's not following him by voting for Elo as opposed to not following Elo on whatever vote she places...

I don't think I can confidently endorse a Zebra lynch. She's elected to play the game in such a way that any read demands total WIFOM, and without mechanical or interactive evidence it feels like a coin flip. The same goes for DrWilgy perhaps to a greater extent. I'll likely be voting within a lynch-capable wagon, but there are still enough votes on the table to go elsewhere here...

Matt, I think you and Elo have very different playstyles which can be problematic. I am reminded that you and I do as well, and you were like a damn dog with a bone decrying I was bad for what.. Four Mafia days?? I was not. I do not trust your instincts. So I am not following an Elo vote. This is suspicious at face value. You've discredited Elo's ability to make reads based upon her being wrong about you once. The comparison being drawn would also appear inaccurate given that Elo has insisted she doesn't read Matt as a baddie...

I also think JJJ might be mafia. Discuss. Based on what...

And lastly, @JJJ - I just don't see zany behavior from Matt as productive and it makes me think he doesn't care about the game. I don;t think Matt is BAD. I never said that. I also don;t think I ever said that his tactics were baddie-like or un-civ. I just think they are unproductive and uncaring. That is all. If you don't think he's a baddie then I don't understand what would compel you to interfere with what he was doing: What's wrong with my post? It's totally obvi niju needs to be destroyed. So Say We All Please share for those of us that its not "obvi" to. I would like Bloops to respond to my interrogation before I go any further. Exactly. Which means you have nothing. You just want to throw a name out there and see what happens. So no. No "obvi" here. Even if you don't think his method is likely to work, there's no good reason for you to quash it like that without giving it a chance to function as a town Matt would have intended -- a possibility you've acknowledged now...

Let's see what they do and we can go from there. :beer: That's where I'm at as well. I'd like to know everyone's perspective before we "see what they do" though, so anyone who hasn't spoken up about it please do. This is a good opportunity to challenge players...

I would consider Elohcin a candidate for my final vote. I do think her treatment of Matt was rather restrictive and it didn't really indicate that she was trying to figure him out -- rather it looked like she took an immediate stance and perhaps even Matt's bait. I'm also not convinced by her response to my assertion that she was a little overzealously interested in DrumBeats's proposal. I've said that this was a unique circumstance which poses a unique reactive challenge to the baddie team. I think it's more believable for people to express at least a little bit of honest paranoia/doubt before easing into the idea. She's responded to that accusation, but I'm not entirely inspired...

I think the baddies should be the primary focus, and if we hit the Process in the mean time, great. How would the baddies "target" the Process at night? Some of you seem to be under the assumption the mafia can just say "Target Cell tonight for NK". What? Wouldn't the mafia still have to guess who the Process is, target that player, and hope they landed a correct hit? I don't think it'd be just as simple as "target Cell", do you? And if that's the case, then there's no reason to call a truce with the mafia, because they wouldn't be able to hold up their end even if they wanted to. Then again, maybe it is just as easy as saying "target Cell" or whatever. We'll see after Night 1 what they do. This question was posed publicly and I think Epi's response would imply that such targeting is plausible. About Targeting the Elements of The Process [/size] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLtcH_rxxnU It seems that everyone is concerned about this mysterious force known only as "The Process," but our researchers have found that the elements of this process are surprisingly vulnerable to effects that can hinder most people. These elements can even be destroyed if targeted with such an intent. Process elements alive: 1 Comment? >_...

I assume this is what you're referring to, Matt: What's wrong with my post? It's totally obvi niju needs to be destroyed. So Say We All Please share for those of us that its not "obvi" to. I would like Bloops to respond to my interrogation before I go any further. Exactly. Which means you have nothing. You just want to throw a name out there and see what happens. So no. No "obvi" here. If you're town Matt then it'd appear you were reaction-baiting by espousing a read on nijuu with a degree of confidence that you didn't really boast. That's something I like to do often myself. With that in mind, I would say that Elohcin doesn't appear to be considering your maneuver from a town perspective, which is a rather restrictive mindset. If her assertion about your maneuver is accurate, then that'd mean you believed you could motivate an actual mislynch merely by crying out a baddie read and calling it obvious. That wouldn't seem to be a terribly well-reasoned strategy on your part which would make me wonder why Eloh's first instinct was to associate you with that strategy. I could see that being a smear job by her. As for the comparison to DrWilgy's content, I don't know that that is so meaningful. He is renown for his nonsense and he loves it. People let him go in every game at this point because he has joined the school of Vompatti...

Matt, what do you think of DrumBeats's proposal? The "just vote for the elements" thing? G2H not a fan. But I'm not entirely against it either. That's not really what he proposed. What aren't you a fan of, and why aren't you entirely against in despite that? I'd like to lynch Elo. Give me your take on Elo complaining about my method of going after the baddies, but not saying jack about Wilgy drooling in the corner. I'll review the exchanges you're referring to and report back...

Matt, what do you think of DrumBeats's proposal...

Everyone discuss my idea on Zebra being the Process or being controlled by the Process!! I think Zebra is a valid candidate to be the Process, but not really any more than anyone else from a mechanical standpoint. I know nothing about this theme and anyone who does can contest this if they feel it prudent, but I am not sure I see Epignosis putting that kind of wrinkle into one of his roles (forcing a player to spell out a word like that because cheerleaders spell things). He seems like a serious host and that'd be more about humor than utility. I don't know, it's an incredibly speculative notion either way as is often the case in the realm of Mattmania. ;...

You all should be embarrassed for me for making so many errors. :haha: What schedule had you been thinking this game is on...

I would theorize that if DrumBeats is town, then his proposal posed a unique challenge to the baddie team. It isn't common for a public proposal to be made that town and mafia cooperate on any task, and that suggestion is inherently bound to draw some eyeballs with that in mind. Because of this, the baddies have to decide how to approach the DrumBeats proposal in the thread and also how to deal with the controversy it causes. This also applies to whichever player is the Process itself I find it mildly suspicious that some players were present in the thread after the proposal but did not provide any response to it at all. I think this assertion applies to the following people: Nerolunar, Matt, Wilgy, llam...