The Syndicate

a2thezebra wrote:
juliets wrote:zebra, why are you voting for Black Rock. I have a neutral read on her because there hasn't been enough for me to judge. So did I miss something?
Nothing tangible, it's just a pure gut read. That's fuckin' Day 1 for you.

How can you have any gut read on a player with zero posts?

Long Con wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
ika wrote:The reason your presenting there is dumb iniself you know? Scum is scum
I know what is dumb and what is not dumb. I've played more Mafia than you have.
And I have played even more Mafia than that, and thus I have gained the ability to distinguish good poetry from bad, and am also able to determine which shades of blue are the best ones.

I was just poking ika to incite a response that might be readable; I promise I'm not really that guy.

Silverwolf wrote:You put a permanent vote on someone for typos when they are known to typo a lot? Are you calling for a PL on ika? I will fight you hard on that as I strongly believe he is town. I don't let my townreads get lynched, especially not policy lynched.

Welcome to Vompatti Mafia.

(I'm not defending him. I have no clue about him and probably never will.)

DrumBeats wrote:Currently rethinking the town lean on Matt. In order for me to know how to take it, meta-speaking, does Matt usually theorize about the broad game early on, or is this "Matttalk" exclusive to this game.

Matt is renown for his outside-the-box theorizing; he does it regardless of alignment. That's not to say a valid read can't be derived from his behavior though -- you simply have to assess each theory he provides case-by-case and decide whether it's a sincere thought he's conveying.

sig wrote:You can town read me JJJ.

I'd love to, sig. Inspire me. Make me feel that special feeling. Do you think you've provided something that might warrant a town read? I understand you cannot be cleared obviously, but perhaps you've said something that you think should be to your credit?

Keep 'em coming folks, maybe I'll find the toasters by accident.

G-Man wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
G-Man wrote:I just like to keep tabs on who suspects me.
Why is that?
Astute note-taking on suspicions can be helpful. I've called a few people out in games past for suspecting me early and then buddying up to me later or vice versa. They aren't always baddies but it's nice to call people out on BS from time to time.

Town read on G-Man.

Glorfindel wrote:So Say We All

Yeah, I thought it was important to check in (without reading the rules carefully first) - nothing like starting the game screwed from your first post...

From what I (skim) read I feel happy so far about Zebs (I wonder if I've developed some skill in reading her now given our rocky start). There's a lot of players here I've not encountered before which is something of a challenge. I thought Matt's remark about the different coloured font in the profiles of our Cylon friends was interesting. I'd not noticed that's til he mentioned it. What if anything that is indicative of I have absolutely no clue. I notice my friend IAWY hasn't posted yet

Oh, and congratulations on the Ambassador thing. To be honest, this site has no more passionate and insistent promoter than you.

Decent look. This strikes me as genuine and it also happened to me, and I think the cylons would have been more immediately inclined to view the roles of their team mates (thus taking note of the colors).

a2thezebra wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
G-Man wrote:I just like to keep tabs on who suspects me.
Why is that?
Why on earth not? Are you saying that you don't?

I don't think I do that. Usually when I face suspicion though it tends to be loudly expressed and eat up a ton of thread space, so it isn't necessary.

I'm just peeking into G-Man's head. I asked the question with no implications.

G-Man wrote:I just like to keep tabs on who suspects me.

Why is that?

sig wrote:Ugh put it away boys nobody wants to see them. :P

a2thezebra wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Okay mild town read to Zebra for taking indignant offense to arbitrary harshness.
You know there are less arbitrarily harsh ways to test people right?

If it was unclear I meant no offense. I only meant "meaningful" as in "contains thick content for discussion" and not as any kind of dig on your play. It's Day 1, I don't really expect that much.

G-Man wrote:All this back-and-forth reminds me of my tinnitius-it's distracting and even annoying at times but there's no avoiding it so you just have to work through it. I've got notes on only about 1/3 of the players so far. I'm in no position to judge because my participation has been minimal up to now but sheesh. Big game is big and quiet players are quiet.

If you're willing to share those notes, assuming they're about reads alone, then that'd be swell. It'd be something substantive to discuss instead of whatever we've had for the last 600 posts.

ika wrote:The reason your presenting there is dumb iniself you know? Scum is scum

I know what is dumb and what is not dumb. I've played more Mafia than you have.

Okay mild town read to Zebra for taking indignant offense to arbitrary harshness.

ika wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I beg your pardon.
You're so transparently bad that I'm almost inclined to leave you alive just to see what team mates you expose.
Why don't you vote it if you think it's bad

I answered that question in the very post you're quoting.

a2thezebra wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I beg your pardon.
You're so transparently bad that I'm almost inclined to leave you alive just to see what team mates you expose.
Wow, you really blow at reading me then.

This behavior is a hallmark of your toaster game. The appearance of a carefree I do what I want attitude obscures your preference to avoid saying anything readable or meaningful.

a2thezebra wrote:I beg your pardon.

You're so transparently bad that I'm almost inclined to leave you alive just to see what team mates you expose.

a2thezebra wrote:
ika wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
ika wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
ika wrote:im curious why zebra was here but never made any comments
Excuse me?
i didnt notice your comments offhand cus everyone was posting so fast.

i do have to ask why you made so little when i saw you for a majority of the time
I post what I feel like posting.
fair enough, got any read or GTH stuff or anything you want to share?
Not yet but I won't be missing the vote.

You're a toaster.

I'll acknowledge a minor ping on S~V~S, who has been present to discuss puzzle solving and theme-relevant things, but hasn't quite engaged in reads-relevant interaction. By that I mean she hasn't provided a read or the framework for a read, and I don't know that she has said anything yet that boasts much promise to produce a read.

I think I'll hand an early town read over to Ricochet too. It's his style to plant himself into discussion with his own perspective and then pointedly contest the perspectives of others that differ (this is not a criticism, I do the same thing). His tone is perhaps a bit more defiant, perhaps even grumpy, but I don't think that's alignment-reflective. I certainly don't think it's a problem that he has offered point-and-counterpoint contests to Matt's theories, because that's exactly what Rico does in Mafia.

I don't think I am inclined to give Matt any similar sort of pseudo-meta credit, because he proved in the 2015 GOC that wild theorizing is a characteristic of everything Matt, not town Matt.

Matt wrote:Wtf why did my spoiler come out like that?

Laaaaame

Stick a quote inside the spoiler to use the black backdrop, otherwise they'll all do that.

Gotta run for now. Y'all need to say some crazy stuff and rev this thread up into a frenzy, so I have more to talk about next time I drop by.

nutella wrote:JJJ, why the popcorn?

You unwittingly engaged in a discussion that has taken place in pretty much every ika/Silverwolf game here to date. To be fair, their records have mostly reflected their claims that they read one another effectively.

Matt wrote:Linki - 3J, I was wondering the same, but I think sig pointed out that the colors are just telling us the location of each player.

Linki linki linki

Werd. I suppose I'll act on the one-toaster-team angle until given a reason not to.

Golden wrote:
indiglo wrote:TBH that "So say we all" rule is not necessarily a common type of role here either. (So far as I am aware.) I'm surprised more people haven't forgotten about it! It sounded kind of like Golden is giving us all a free day on these kinds of technical issues anyway, so hopefully it won't be a problem for anyone today.

I think keeping track of who forgets to do so could potentially prove helpful, just to see if there are consequences and/or what they might be. Unless they are made public by Admiral Golden.
Punishments for role breaches will not be made public by me, although it is possible that sometimes they will be visible in the thread. I am not giving people a free day on that particular rule. I've kept a very careful list, and Ricochet was down a name

I should be okay as long as it wasn't case sensitive.

nutella wrote:this game is confusing :/

after a quick readthrough the player who sticks out to me the most is ika I guess. Not only do I find his rife-with-ignored-typos posts difficult and obnoxious to read, I'm unsure what to think of his fierce insistence on being able to read silverwolf no matter what, and the back-and-forth with Rico has been interesting to say the least. To some extent I understand the idea that some players might not really be able to help how they behave as civ or scum (I have been guilty of it myself). But the way he's talking about it and not allowing for any possibility he could be wrong is just really setting me off.

I wouldn't say he's necessarily vote-worthy for it yet, he's just so far the only blip on my radar, and day 1 for me usually involves having no clue who to really suspect and just voting for the strongest slight ping, so something else could come up.

Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Given that the toasters are divided into two colors like the humans, does anyone think we should be perceiving them as separate toaster teams? I ask because eight seems like a huge number for just one team.
Welcome to Matt and Rico talk show, 20 minutes ago.

I thought y'all were talking about the Final Five, which I'm not. Anyway, what's your take?

Given that the toasters are divided into two colors like the humans, does anyone think we should be perceiving them as separate toaster teams? I ask because eight seems like a huge number for just one team.

indiglo wrote:toaster sympathizers

indiglo, will you join me in referring to the baddies as "toasters" for the remainder of the game? I'm inspired.

I have an early town read on DrumBeats and Silverwolf, not for their part in solving the pre-game puzzle but for their treatment of other players relative to that puzzle. They both set out to generate reads based on the information available to them whether I agree with the methods or not, and that's worth some points to me.

ika's early play can be contrasted to what he put out in Turf Wars and the scrimmage on at least one front: he isn't voicing an absurd degree of confidence in his reads and appears to be working them out in a meaningful process. That's a decent look, even if it's just meta.

*spreadsheets Ricochet as "willfully uncooperative, Day 1*

Ricochet wrote:As for smidgens and such, I believe I was asked for a read, not for smidgens or fractions. I don't believe it's surprising that I come with some sort of argumented text, that constitutes my read, when I have such material to publish.

Gun to head read on ika, GO

Ricochet wrote:
ika wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Nope.
so im null?
Neutral would be a read. I answered that I don't have a read.

I don't think it's possible to have the complete absence of a read on someone you've been having a conversation with. If that's how you feel, then the read is neutral/null by default. You haven't felt any inclination at all to this point in your chat to read ika one way or another, even if he's only moved a fraction of a smidgen from the center? That's surprising.

Scotty wrote:@JJJ what mechanics in this game are persuading you to change your usual style? I don't see that much different than a regular game to make you want to change it up, but I'm open to different strategies if they're founded.

The potential for non-standard win conditions is the cause of my uncertain approach. I'm not accustomed to playing in this manner of game and I'm going to spend some of it working out exactly how I should be playing -- because my usual methods might not be conducive. The reason I have hesitated to broadcast town reads is that "target painting", something I'd normally not care about at all, is in this case a little more meaningful a concern. It's actually a courtesy, at least in my mindset, to avoid broadcasting town reads because it can play at least a small role in who gets night killed.

Still, everyone who has acknowledged my concern has essentially told me to do whatever I want to do regardless of other concerns, so I think I'll just play my game and see what happens. Even in this kind of game I think town needs to work together for any of its members to win, and that requires a transparent JJJ. I can't be a vocal influence or a leader if I am withholding half of my reads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm going to just say right now that I will not be broadcasting town reads in this game like I normally do unless I think it is necessary to prevent a mislynch. Different game structure and rules call for a different approach. However, I don't think town is as likely to win the game without trying to work together, so I'd recommend we maintain a focus on team work even if we're not blatantly saying "so and so is my top town read".

I said this like a half hour ago or something and it's already bugging me, because it's just not how I am used to playing Mafia. I can adjust if it's for the best, but that brings me to this: a general question for everyone else playing in this game right now...

If I have a town read on you for whatever reason or to whatever degree, would you prefer that I broadcast it into the thread or keep it closer to the vest? Your answers might have a real effect on my treatment of you in this game, so lemme get 'em.

Silverwolf wrote:Allow me. I should go back to bed but am dealing with major insomnia so I'll at least give you this to chew on and then probably get some more sleep.

I understand you want to dismiss any sort of reads on the puzzle solving and I understand where you are coming from, but I want to explain my thought process on that a bit as I do think there is a way to read players off it to a certain extent.

My reasoning on this, is that there is enough there to at the least get light townreads off of players based on tone of posts for one thing. Polo for example went out of his way to try to solve things using complex methods and spending a lot of time on it. He also seemed genuinely frustrated when called out on it by Obscure. This plus the overall tone of his posts, warrants a light townread. Drumbeats immediately tried to scumhunt off it and was poking at inactive players. This looks more like a town mindset overall because he's game solving in an active manner early game and trying to get reads. I honestly see scum, if here to participate, not caring too much about this stage of the game.

Now, I do take into account that some people, like me, just couldn't figure it out so I'm not reading on accuracy or giving a townread on solving it. I also am aware this gives scum a great opportunity to appear helpful so I'm not gonna townread on just trying to help alone.

Anyway, that's kind of my thought process on the whole puzzle solving game. Also, I don't think scum is likely to give kind of an odd theory like Matt threw out right off the bat to suspect someone so that pings me slightly townish-this is somewhat of a gut read too.

Like I said, I'm looking at trying to find some town to work with first as I always find those easier to get early game then scumreads.

OK, There ya go. Good night!!

I can dig it. I understand where you're coming from and don't necessarily disagree with your logic. I do think actually that it's perfectly reasonable to set the foundation for a read based upon people's treatment of other puzzle solvers rather than based upon the puzzle solving itself (which it appears you and DrumBeats have done).

*drowns in a pool of loneliness*

a2thezebra wrote:Come on Matt let's chat!

Zebra you wanted to chat with Matt (killer rhymes bro). Matt's here. I'm here too. Chat with us. What did you want to talk about with Matt?

Matt wrote:Ummmm smear away, I can honestly say that I don't care. Gonna have a lot of thoughts this game, that's just the first!

I wouldn't care either.

Someone else should come in here and say things. I would love some real-time Mafia dialogue. Feed me.

Matt, what if I was to tell you that you could be accused of smearing Scotty for a dubious reason (his part in the puzzle process) because you want to provide some immediate pushback to the general thread climate hoisting up the puzzle solvers in a positive light?

Matt wrote:Sweet. You actually want to discuss this! Lately I kinda just say "weeelll this person's bad mkay bye" because I don't like to bug peeps with my theories.

You're here right now and the game is currently too young to boast much meaningful content. We have the opportunity to change that right now by talking about pretty much anything game-relevant. If you have theories, I'm interested in hearing them.

Matt wrote:Anywho, so maybe I kinda lied and it's not just that it could be ANYONE who solved the puzzle.

I was initially pinged by Scotty's first post, I believe it was, when he came in and said "Oh snap if I was here I could totally solve this but I got my show!" and boom, bailed. Then later, right before the deadline, actually comes back and solved it! I was like, "what?" But then again, sure I've played a few games with Scotty, but I don't know him so well, so perhaps he wasn't lying and he is actually very good at solving puzzles.

But...again, I'm Matt. Nice to meet you. So this means Scotty is probably the President or something

So you feel then that there's at least some chance that Scotty's initiative in the puzzle-solving scene was motivated by a perceived need to appear helpful rather than a sincere affection for puzzle-solving?

I'd welcome Scotty to rebut. Rebut, Scotty.

ika wrote:ok now i have light town read on silver.

im getting tired too

silver can i call soon we should need sleep

In both of your Syndicate mafia-aligned games, among your earliest contributions was to provide a town read on Silverwolf. What inspires this read, and more importantly to me: why is it "slight"?

Matt wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Matt, do you genuinely suspect Scotty?
Well it's a little early, but I was pinged by it. But that's probably my paranoia and I'd be saying that about anyone who solved it.

As for the Final Five thing, I was thinking about the show, and realized that there's potentially one of the Final Five who could turn scum. Without giving too much away about the show, there is one of the Final Five who absolutely deserved to die and...did.

While I don't think it's inherently town-inclined for someone to solve the puzzle, I don't think it's suspicious either. Why does that behavior affect you this way, whether it's paranoia or not?

Matt, do you genuinely suspect Scotty?

Matt wrote:Btw, in the show, the Final Five were actually good guys who still fought the Cylons after finding out who they really were. I don't know what impact that will have in the game, but just sayin'.

If I understand the setup correctly, I think it's safe to assume that the Final Five probably aren't default baddies, because if they are then the ratios are almost insurmountable from the word GO. I don't know exactly what they'd be, but I don't think it's clear cut that they're evil. I have never seen the show though so if there's additional flavor that may be of relevance, it's lost on me.

I'm going to just say right now that I will not be broadcasting town reads in this game like I normally do unless I think it is necessary to prevent a mislynch. Different game structure and rules call for a different approach. However, I don't think town is as likely to win the game without trying to work together, so I'd recommend we maintain a focus on team work even if we're not blatantly saying "so and so is my top town read".

So say we all.

Hey gang. Neat intro word puzzle thing, I wish I could have been here to help. I'm not inclined to award anyone town points for being helpful in that process, because it might as well have been a huge caps lock sign that reads "COME GET YER TOWN CREDIT HERE". Those who helped, it's appreciated. Anyone can help with that though given that it's entirely introductory to the game and is unlikely to wholly define the win chances of either the humans or cylons.

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