The Syndicate

Super cool! I'm on it because I'm a big deal.

The episode seems to be all about character development, which usually would be great. They just focus so much on Starbuck and Lee, and those characters just don't interest me that much.

I'm so glad I was Adama in this game. Coolest character by far.

I've had a lot of fun watching the series, but "Unfinished Business" is the worst episode ever.

I definitely play to win. For me, that's where fun comes from. I really don't have as much fun when I'm not giving maximum effort, and obviously that effort will always be oriented towards winning the game. Hopefully I offset that attitude some by promoting team work and trying to incorporate others into my madness, but I know it can be tiresome to some people. I've certainly heard it before.

There's also the problem that Mafia is largely about expectation, and whenever I cannot meet those expectations of me I am going to end up spending a bunch of time defending myself. Focusing just on having fun tends to get me in trouble. :P

To be fair, I did read your posts and I still thought you were bad.

I would be shocked if people read all of my shit.

Long Con wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Long Con, I felt your reasoning for interfering with the process DrumBeats had laid out looked more like a cheap excuse to interfere than an honest concern -- even if it might have been "logical" on the surface. Even baddies are logical sometimes, especially me.
All I expect is that, when I put something forward that is undeniably logical, that my fellow logic-appreciating players acknowledge that the logical move is usually the smarter move. I don't think that's too much to ask. Instead, I mostly got ignored, despite laying out in extremely simple terms why it was smarter to protect ourselves. If DrumBeats' plan had ended up being a baddie thing, then I would have practically been the only one to attempt to stop him, and he would have been gloating at the end of the game that everyone was a fool to follow along with his plan. It's pure luck that it didn't end up that way - I prefer to tone down the 'luck' and go with ideas that eliminate the possibility of baddie control. I guess not everyone feels the same way.

I've highlighted the point where we separate. The game of Mafia is not about determining whose proposal is the most logical; it's about determining who is bad. If I have any reason at all to believe that you aren't being entirely sincere in your content, then that means more to me than whether you're making a logical point. I think you've granted your own insincerity too on some level at least -- you weren't entirely motivated by a concern that DrumBeats might be bad and that it might be a problem to trust in his strategy. You had other reasons for interfering as you've said yourself.

I genuinely do not believe that the concern you proposed about DrumBeats was sufficient to justify your actions. What is logical is not always smartest. Usually perhaps, but a townie must judge every scenario individually. I had no reason whatsoever at that point in the game to doubt DrumBeats, rightly so apparently, and I was not interested in honoring paranoia or tinfoiling against him. I was more concerned with your behavior.

I think some of us could tell that you did what you did for reasons beyond just wariness of DrumBeats. What we were wrong about is what those other motives were. But that's how the game works, right? People make reads, they act accordingly, and there's nothing more to be said really.

I've been watching the series since the game ended.

Show spoiler:

Spoiler: show

Long Con, I felt your reasoning for interfering with the process DrumBeats had laid out looked more like a cheap excuse to interfere than an honest concern -- even if it might have been "logical" on the surface. Even baddies are logical sometimes, especially me.

But whatever, game's over. People were wrong about things. People were right about things. Mafia.

Ricochet wrote:I think Adama's win con, despite the role description, changed as soon as he acknowledged that not all Cylons need to be dead.

Yep. This actually happened for me during Night 1 or Day 2, and I think it contributed to Epignosis suspecting me on some level. At first after his Athena flip, I still needed all cylons dead so I was content to continue ushering him toward the gallows. But that changed abruptly and I had to turn it around.

Nice job indiglo. You were my vote for theme.

I went with Dex for the other one. I know how it feels to work hard in a town effort only to be converted into a losing cause.

I'd like to pat myself on the back for failing to say "So say we all" over and over despite being Admiral Adama.

Anyway,

Thanks for the kind words, Glorfindel. You should stick around and keep playing with us as your time permits. I think you have a talent for transparency, which can be a great asset once people become more accustomed to your style. Hell, in future games if people give you crap for the same reasons, you can refer them back to this and tell them they're bad. :P

G-Man wrote:Night 11 we skipped Matt. Were you disappointed or surprised not to get a message? S~V~S had Jimmy pegged as Adama for a while, so we decided to see if we could get any kind of reaction out of him by suggesting Cavil was growing stronger each day he wasn't lynched. Jimmy didn't seem to bat an eye. I'd like to know what he thought of it.

I asked Golden if I would be allowed to respond. Unfortunately I couldn't. I would have been a link to this video:

Spoiler: show

This was a great team victory, it was an honor serving within this town. I am proud of what I was able to accomplish in the nutella lynch, but after that I was definitely a backseat presence to Polo and Epignosis among others. Y'all killed it.

Thanks for the game Golden, it was fun and certainly interesting. It helped me to learn how to better respect myself.

Thanks to various people out there for loyally following my orders, even though I had no actual right to give you orders.

I'd have ranked "game over" about 915th on the list of "things that might happen".

Additional vote: G-Man

Vote: G-Man

Matt wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy and G-Man:

You both have five minutes to give me your top five suspects.

Your answers will determine which one of you I murder. I have the power.
Do you have the power to murder Cavil?

Maybe. I'll wait that one out just a little longer.

Wilgy and G-Man:

You both have five minutes to give me your top five suspects.

Your answers will determine which one of you I murder. I have the power.

Polo wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Polo wrote:If OA is Cylon with Wilgy, then G-Man is going to flip Doral tonight. It's logical.
Please explain this logic to me. Quickly.
ObscureAllure said this about Wilgy: "he's NOT Caprica Six.". I think she may be in fact Caprica Six.

Wilgy is a confirmed Colon and must be Leoben Conoy because he has been behaving like a Civ or, at the very least, Indie, since shit got serious here.

G-Man has been showing S~V~S-ish behaviour (bussing teammates when necessary) and he looks like he's been playing this game with caution, much like a sniper. I do think he's Colon and on the Cavil-aligned faction and I'm not afraid of lynching him tonight.

It sounds like you care about lore. Do you care about lore?

DrWilgy wrote:Safty vote... though, I probably don't deserve it.

vibes are vibes, I can't explain gut feelings. Her patterns were weird, that was all.

What I don't understand is why you're telling me about these baddie vibes you have now of a player who has already been lynched and flipped bad. I wanted to know how you felt her content should reflect on you. I already know S~V~S was bad, so that does me no good.

Polo wrote:If OA is Cylon with Wilgy, then G-Man is going to flip Doral tonight. It's logical.

Please explain this logic to me. Quickly.

One random thing I noticed while looking back at nutella's posts is that she pushed for a Zebra lynch when she was getting heat on Day 2. Given Zebra's goofball behavior, she was a very easy target and I think that's a nice look for rabbit8 now.

G-Man wrote:And you didn't play Biblical so I'm not surprised you don't understand where I'm coming from.

I'm looking at it. I check every assertion against the data.

You said S~V~S "peppered" you in Spirited Away. I see an S~V~S seemingly supporting you and your haikus until the latter half of the game. Where is the parallel with this game? It strikes me as the opposite, actually.

G-MAN

These are the only posts nutella made in which she said anything about her struggle to keep up (that I could find in a quick browse):

Spoiler: show

nutella wrote:holy shit I'm a dumbass and got distracted by RL and missed the vote. so sorry Golden I am kicking myself I probably would have voted for Epig anyway but I need to catch up on a shit ton

nutella wrote:Alright, caught up again. Good to see we got a rezz ship, but disconcerting that it's just *a* and not *the* :/

JJJ made a case on me I see. I realize I haven't posted much but that's because I've barely had time to catch up on the thread a couple times each day and just post when I'm done. I posted about ika on day 1 but decided I didn't actually suspect him; it makes the most sense to me that he (and probably also Silver) was civ, I just didn't like his style and wasn't used to it at first.

Also, when I realized I had missed the vote and said I would have voted for Epi, I had not even read the lynch result yet, so I didn't know what he had flipped. I just saw that he had a handful of votes and he had been my top/only actual suspect the last time I had been in thread, and I honestly probably would have voted for him.

I've also gotten some criticism for my interpretation of Epi. And to be honest I still don't really know where I stand on that either. When he first flipped cylon and rezzed, I assumed he was bad, but also seemed to be in an interesting position to help us for some time. After much of the discussion from people familiar with the show, it seems quite possible that Athena is a good role, so I don't necessarily want to automatically go after him again (plus he might just get rezzed again). On the other hand, there's the possibility that he's actually Boomer. So really I have no idea where I stand on that issue.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ~~~

Generally I don't think nutella has been entirely consistent in her mindset (consider that it's her mindset I'm talking about and not her reads), which suggests to me that she might be making it up as she goes. I think some of her content is just suspicious at face value, and moreover her rate of participation is right about where I'd expect most of the baddies to be in a game that has moved as fast as this one.
Of course I'm making it up as I go, that's what I always do You've seen me get absolutely skewered as a civ many times just for being wishy-washy, that's just how I play. My opinions change throughout the game. And I haven't been able to post much but I'm trying to contribute when I can.

I have to go for a little bit but when I come back I will figure out who I suspect the most. For what it's worth I actually trust some apparently unpopular people rn, namely LC, Rico, and Matt.

I don't see her expecting a free pass; I see her attempting to explain her failure to vote/post.

G-Man wrote:As for my Glorfindel hunt, I figured out he was a Toaster from his early inquiries about their mechanics. At that point, what lore was being discussed pointed to the no -Epi Toasters being bad. I tunneled, it's true. I'll own that. Instead of keeping my radar honed on multiple targets, I focused too much on Glorfindel. I'll own that too.

My lax attention got me in a bind Day 8 because most of my prior reads had been NK'd or lynched already. I recalibrated and voted for DrumBeats on moderate suspicion that has since grown based on behavior and votes.

I've already covered my creeping suspicion on S~V~S.

Linki: Jimmy, it's not one post. It's the body of work. The continued 'catching up!' plus a snippy attitude when people tire of it and ask/demand content. Reading between the lines it says, 'dammit, people, just cut me some slack one more day so I can get up to speed.'

How do you think you ought to look in light of S~V~S's treatment of you in this game?

DrWilgy wrote:Would you vote for Sokoth if I were to place a vote there?

No.

Tell me more about these baddie vibes you were getting from S~V~S. I don't understand.

DrWilgy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Looking back at it... Her tempo felt strange while she was addressing me. It slowly picked up until day 5, but then becomes sporadic.
What does this mean to you?
Generally it gives me baddie vibes. Nothing real strong to go after, but it makes my hair stand up.

Should I vote... G-Man... ?

...

...

...

You're getting baddie vibes from the content posted by a confirmed baddie? That's not surprising.

Your vote is your own to place.

*considers lynching Wilgy for ellipsis abuse*

DrWilgy wrote:Looking back at it... Her tempo felt strange while she was addressing me. It slowly picked up until day 5, but then becomes sporadic.

What does this mean to you?

G-Man wrote:Linki: Jimmy, it's not one post. It's the body of work. The continued 'catching up!' plus a snippy attitude when people tire of it and ask/demand content. Reading between the lines it says, 'dammit, people, just cut me some slack one more day so I can get up to speed.'

If not one post, then "a" post. Or multiple posts. These are observations you have made, and you had to see them somewhere. It's critical that you help me out here if I'm going to have a fair chance of understanding your mindset.

Time is limited and your lives may be in my hands, Wilgy and G-Man. Inspire me.

G-Man wrote:It pops up in a lot of games and her borderline indignant expectation to a free pass threw up the red flag for me.

Please show me exactly which nutella post you're referring to, in which she expects a "free pass".

DrWilgy wrote:
Matt wrote:Yo Doc why do you think SVS stopped going after you once you used your claim?
Somewhere along the line I stated that "mafia have no reason to side with me", then she stopped. Perhaps she wanted the civ cred for defending me if I flipped.

Like what JJJ? All you stated in regards to my actions was about the transition of my GTH.

Tell me how you feel about S~V~S's commentary making you look bad, even if just in general.

DrWilgy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Oh yeah! I forgot about that... I'm sorry that I burdened you. I'm such trash.

It was actually really interesting in the fact that you were incorrect because you pulled up the quote that shifted my GTH on SVS and noted it as "didn't make me feel anything". The transition on SVS didn't come from nowhere it was from that exchange. She referenced a game where I was civ, she was bad, and that I should be playing more like that. She was basically asking me to catch her again... It was one of those hints that I noticed with hindsight that SVS wanted to be caught. (this is why we shouldn't be dealing with Cavil the bugger wants to die)
Is there a reason you didn't discuss this stuff at the time?
It was just a gut feeling, if I were to try to discuss it though, the only answer would be WIFOM.
DrWilgy could've wrote:"Would a baddie SVS really bring up a game where she was bad to me, a civ?"
but that wouldn't lead to anything.

How about all of those other nasty things I had to say about you?

Matt wrote:1) If Golden was willing to make two of the Final Five baddies, then why not three?

Game balance.

Matt wrote:2) She ran with SVS' "slip" trying to get the town to discuss it before others brought up that it was put there on purpose to mislead us.

Hrm.

I don't think it's harmful to discuss it. She didn't harp on it or make it a big component of her contribution today. I'm not bothered.

G-Man wrote:Asking for 15 more minutes to give Kid 2 a bath. Then I will come back to talk.

I'll be here.

DrWilgy wrote:Oh yeah! I forgot about that... I'm sorry that I burdened you. I'm such trash.

It was actually really interesting in the fact that you were incorrect because you pulled up the quote that shifted my GTH on SVS and noted it as "didn't make me feel anything". The transition on SVS didn't come from nowhere it was from that exchange. She referenced a game where I was civ, she was bad, and that I should be playing more like that. She was basically asking me to catch her again... It was one of those hints that I noticed with hindsight that SVS wanted to be caught. (this is why we shouldn't be dealing with Cavil the bugger wants to die)

Is there a reason you didn't discuss this stuff at the time?

Epignosis wrote:If G-Man is bad, we can lynch 3J next on account of his signature.

Bad or not, his assessment of me is completely accurate.

DrWilgy wrote:
SokothQultuq wrote:Apparently in my haste I forgot to do the vote. I corrected that today, hopefully not too late.

@DrWilgy - I do believe I've made every effort to answer your questions, over and over. Stop sounding like a broken record. You got a few wires crossed in there I think!
No you haven't. Even though I've brought it up multiple times. You still have yet to comment about my question regarding both Sig and lore. It's ok though, a guy like me probably doesn't mean anything to you.

Hey Siggo, would you like to vote Sokoth or OA with me? I think that would be fun.

Hey Wilgy, would you like to tell me why I am wrong about you?

Just like I did with Dex, I'm going to review all of the posts Spacedaisy made after she was brought back with the Final Five aligned with Cavil.

Spoiler: show

Yellow: This is a strange statement to give when emerging back into a game. "I was killed to frame Wilgy". We know Daisy was bad at this point, and this change in tune about Wilgy might be meaningful. Prior to her death she was quite anti-Wilgy, making posts like this one on Night 5:

Spacedaisy wrote:I am very pleased with the results of this lynch. And it makes tomorrow an easy lynch in my opinion. I don't believe for one second that Wilgy is good.

Orange: She downplayed her own ability to make good reads based upon her incorrect reads earlier in the game (which, to be fair, is accurate - she was wrong about nutella, LoRab, Long Con, Glorfindel, and bea). In this case though it gives her a little more freedom to act against Wilgy if there's ever a need.

Spoiler: show

Going after Nero for the "slip". Looks great for Nero, because this was a silly assertion all along.

Spoiler: show

Yellow: Visibly bothered by the treatment she was receiving from Epignosis. She tried to subtly turn it on him like he was being manipulative without actually saying so, which suggests to me that she wanted to go after him but didn't feel like she could get away with it -- something that would stem from Epi being correctly read as town by most people in the game.

That's pretty much it, there's not much to talk about here.

sig wrote:linki: Why me?

Earlier in the game I'd given you a pass because I think you're the most likely to be Gaius Baltar. But now lore is meaningless, so I don't care if you're Gaius Baltar. I don't think you've done anything to this point that makes me say "okay, I feel pretty good about sig". This leaves you within the process of elimination bubble.

I'll give G-Man a little window to answer to what I had to say about his votes before I contribute to his demise.

I think the remaining baddies are most likely somewhere in this pile:

DrumBeats
DrWilgy
G-Man
ObscureAllure
rabbit8
sig
SokothQultug

+ John Cavil

Ricochet wrote:Do you think going traditional-style after G-Man is a better choice today than testing out the status of an outed Cylon, who is short on odds of being a remaining non-Cavil aligned Cylon (since him being Six was disputed by several and there is at least ambiguity as to what Conoy might turn out to be)?

Assuming you're talking about Wilgy, I wouldn't oppose that lynch. I've promoted it for a while now. I don't care at all about which Cylon he might be though, because there's no way around that being about lore -- I hate lore and want to set it on fire. I think he's suspicious on his own merits and for his S~V~S interactions.

Whether I'd vote for Wilgy or G-Man would mostly depend on who's participating in each wagon, I think.

Regarding Cavil, I still haven't seen this question answered in any satisfactory manner:

If we don't lynch him now, then when is the right time? How do we know?

Ricochet wrote:I tend to be reluctant to fully judge his endless Glorfindel hounding, because the WIFOM effect seriously kicks in at stuff like "would a baddie plunge this deep into coordinating a big mislynch"; either the no-reveals design was a comfortable detail for him, in the sense that he never expected this dynamic to shift or thus proceeded without any backfire thought.

I'd say that if there's any one player in this game who the baddies could most comfortably tunnel for days and days, it's Glorfindel. I don't struggle at all with WIFOM here.

Ricochet wrote:In general, at least the way you've shapen the extracts, he does look to have (re)adjusted to the main lynches that happened to generate baddies, but I'm still phased by the fact that his interactions with a major bad flip (SVS) and a major town flip (Glor - or at least so it seems) have left me either not-so-alarmed or incredulous.

I can understand this. The thing I've had to get past is the S~V~S interaction. I do think though that there's substance to this case against him, not just from my most recent review but from other people pursuing his lynch. When I read the doubts you present, I see more "Rico talking himself out of a reasonable lynch" than "Rico resisting an unreasonable lynch".

Matt wrote:3J - Do you think G-Man straight bussed his whole team? I'm not saying it's not possible, just curious.

If he's bad, then I'd say this:

He didn't want to bus his whole team (so far), but the climate of the thread continually forced his hand. My case forced his hand against nutella on Day 2, just as it forced S~V~S's. Polo's hatred forced his hand against S~V~S on Day 9. The Final Five controversies that everyone was disucssing forced his hands on Dex and Spacedaisy. I really don't think any of those four votes make him look "better". They don't necessarily have to make him look worse, but the progressions are problematic in some places.

Ricochet -- you've been asking for evidence against G-Man. There you go. Tell me your thoughts immediately instead of continuing to pester Matt over nothing, please.

Search found 646 matches