The Syndicate

Ya done good, kid.

Perhaps the single moment that most favored town was when G-Man's role was revealed without him dying. That essentially removed him from the suspect pool, and Spacedaisy with him. The only angle the mafia had left late in the game to try and get out of trouble was to perpetuate the paranoia that G-Man might be bad.

Ricochet wrote:So, upon having all the data, would you say this game had 3 power roles or 4? To be honest, once I introduced the Reaper/indy into the design, I settled for the idea that I'm expanding it past the 3 PR rule, but during the game, Day 4 mostly, when asked, I had to imply that the game stays grounded, as to not drive the civs paranoid (I think Quin had come up with up to 5 or 6 roles in total ). Still, I stand by what I replied to G-Man, actually: I don't see how "surviving the game" or "needing to achieve a win con" is a literal ability/power role, despite that the Survivor is a traditional third party "role". Then again, if you count The Reaper as a power role, Elohcin was basically vanilla as long as she did not send any action, so, in a way, it was still closer to not exceeding the limit.

This depends again on one's definition of "power role". I would not identify any role which is not functionally more powerful than a vanilla role as a power role. With that in mind, I wouldn't call Daisy a power role -- she was non-vanilla, but not any more powerful than a vanilla. She had a unique scenario to predict and pursue; this is mechanically different from vanilla but not stronger than vanilla. Elohcin's role might barely be a power role, since she can use her night ability to progress her own perceived win condition. If it's stronger than vanilla though, it's not by much.

G-Man and DrWilgy were definitely power roles. So I'd say you obeyed the heist guidelines, even if with a little bit of loophole action. You had 2.5 or 3 power roles IMO.

I think for the most part the balance was okay. In a 10:3:1 closed setup, two power roles for town is a nice standard. The standard for the same numbers in an open setup is one power role, but when it's closed that tends to be a small default mafia advantage. Overall it might have been a little town-slanted, only because cop/doctor is one of the strongest power role combinations a town can have (particularly when infodumping is legal). I don't tend to put those roles together unless the mafia team has at least one significant counter (like a godfather or a strongman). This is nitpicking though; I think you did a nice job on balance Rico.

sig wrote:Ha I knew Eloh was being lying when she said I was a good player. :P

Anyway I was laying cover for the cop, I screwed up though by getting myself night killed the first night when that was my greatest fear.

Your sacrifice is appreciated.

Good team win, townies. Way to weather a crappy start and turn it around decisively.

Super neato. Good game baddies and Daisy.

Thanks for a huge effort, Rico. You wrote as many words in this game as I did. I enjoyed reading your novels; they were a lot of fun.

14 posts

S~V~S wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:After all that I still think S~V~S is the most suspicious by a pretty wide margin. If anyone disagrees with that, please say so and say why. Time is limited and anyone might be dead shortly.
After this game, we can have a long talk about how you read me and personal bias re game style IF you are a civ this game. And I don't want to hear about how I am a crap civ becasue my standards of civ behavior aren't yours. That post about how I was marching to my own drummer, I meant that.

There are a bunch of people in this game who play nothing like I play that I do not suspect. I suspect you.

How you play is not the variable of interest. How your interactions look with confirmed mafia is of interest. I could be wrong, it happens at least once in every game. But this stuff you're telling me does not help me to read you.

After all that I still think S~V~S is the most suspicious by a pretty wide margin. If anyone disagrees with that, please say so and say why. Time is limited and anyone might be dead shortly.

Scotty/Spacedaisy interaction:

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When Scotty suggested I "invited a self-lynch", he was sort of piggy-backing a point first made by Daisy. I think Scotty was trying to be opportunistic and it was a transparent mistake -- the perceived "opportunity" existed because SD said it first. I generally find that baddies are more likely to piggy back civilians/people not on their team, because it associates them falsely and can garner trust/facilitate pocketing.

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Similar vague half-scapegoating as he did with rabbit. The same can be said of S~V~S.

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White knighting for SD when I was willing to lynch her and not Polo. Nice look.

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This came before Daisy claimed indy herself, which supports the claim.

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Thoroughly confused by the shenanigans from Wilgy and I.

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It was Daisy's vote that killed Scotty. She could have gone for G-Man or S~V~S instead. Nice look.

~~~

I'm most inclined to believe Daisy's indy claim, especially with Scotty confirmed as not indy.

I already did the Scotty/S~V~S interaction.

Despite her self-vote antics last night, I still think she is a high-probability team mate of Scotty and Elohcin.

G-Man wrote:Back again between the wedding and reception. I was told that I could not say the name I was given for Scotty directly. Lucky for me, I snuck it into one of my posts in a manner of speaking. Looks for my post with the in it. I had hoped to draw a reaction out of Scotty with it but I understand why he didn't, knowing now that my peek was wrong.

Gotta jet. Reception in 20 minutes!

Could someone else please find the post G-Man is referring to? I need to finish these analyses.

Scotty/rabbit8 interaction:

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The topic of the conversation is rather inconsequential (whether independents are allowed in Heist games). I somewhat appreciate rabbit's line of questioning though.

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Did Scotty stick his two team mates together in this sentence? This is probably a good moment to read rabbit -- usually this is one and one, not two baddies. He also kind of scapegoated rabbit for the Vomps vote.

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Answer to the question about the Vomps vote.

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Scotty was one of his three named suspects on Day 4.

~~~

The content is limited, but I do think the stuff we have here is a nice look for rabbit. *Quin's head explodes*

Scotty/Quin interaction:

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Inconsequential Day 0 banter.

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"But Quin, I was counting on you to help me mislynch Polo! It was supposed to be easy to mislynch Polo!"

Good look.

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He offers a two-sided take on Scotty early in the game.

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I'm not sure why he felt like he could justify reading Scotty at "good" at this point.

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He was interested in Epi's suspicion of Scotty but not INH.

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I don't know what this read is.

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GTH civilian read on Day 2 (Elohcin also civilian).

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Quin did spend some energy standing up for Scotty when I was suggesting he might be an anti-town independent and later a mafioso.

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Eventually Quin took the stance that Scotty is not independent, but he never seemed to progression that assertion into "Scotty is bad".

~~~

This doesn't make Quin look like a glistening model of town muscle and grit. There are some issues. It comes down to deciding whether Quin was guilty of being wrong or guilty of being [/i]guilty[/i]. I'm still inclined to lean toward the former, but there's more potential for a bad Quin here than I expected to find.

The best look for him is Scotty's attempts to mislynch Polo and his indignation when he lost Quin's support on that.

Scotty/G-Man interaction:

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This was in response to S~V~S agreeing with my initial suspicion of Scotty for suggesting I invited a self lynch. Scotty rather laboriously listed all three of these names in this post and I'm not sure what that indicates. He felt like he had to say them all.

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Scotty takes a light accusation from G-Man and kind of jokes around with it, which isn't great. He does ask G-Man to take a current stance on him though, which isn't always typical of team mate behavior. It's bold to ask one's team mate to conclusively state their perspective of you, because it puts pressure on them.

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This bit is probably the most interesting this interaction. If they're not team mates, then G-Man presenting an independent peek on Scotty (which we now know was incorrect) poses a challenging problem for Scotty -- does he refute that peek outright and attack G-Man for "lying", or does he shrink back and just play defense? This post here, and particularly the highlighted portion, look to me like a player who wasn't sure how to deal with G-Man's peek until the Elohcin red peek and her confession gave him an avenue. He didn't outright attack G-Man, at least not until later in the game, and instead he was pretty collected about it. This is what I would expect from a baddie talking to a non-team mate, especially when it's a claimed cop who just exposed his true team mate. Attacking that civilian would be playing with fire and I don't think Scotty wanted to take the risk -- not until Wilgy's jailer claim gave him a way to do so.

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He's still favoring the "tomfoolery" explanation instead of the "G-Man is bad" explanation.

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Encouraging the notion that G-Man should be lynched if he isn't night killed. This might lend credence to the notion that the baddies abstained from a kill, but that theory is also probably unnecessary with Wilgy's claim in play.

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He is starting to push a little harder against G-Man, but still respecting both sides of the discussion. He either "got lucky" or it was a "big red bus". Scotty is trying to subtly promote the growing anti-G-Man sentiment in the thread without ever committing fully to it. It's hard as a baddie to commit to the lynch of a known cop. That'll get anyone in trouble.

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Again. Trying to edge the thread in the anti-G-Man direction, but always with a caveat (highlighted). I think this kept happening because Scotty realized he needed G-Man to be viewed as suspicious, but it was hard to promote that agenda without being illogical.

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He jumped at the opportunity when Wilgy's half-false jailer claim provided a way to implicate G-Man. At the time, the most likely lynches were G-Man himself and S~V~S. Like I said in the Wilgy write-up, I think this is a good look for both Wilgy and G-Man. It is also a bad look for S~V~S.

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G-Man joined S~V~S and I in casting suspicion upon Scotty for the first post in this quote sequence.

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I'm not alarmed by this positive interaction.

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I do sometimes see this generic "please tell me more about why you suspect my team mate, mister townie" thing, so there's that.

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G-Man provides one positive observation of Scotty but still seems to arrive at a net-negative read, even if slightly.

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GTH bad read on Day 1 (if S~V~S is bad he was 3 for 3 on Day 1). I am hesitant to believe that G-Man would isolate his only two team mates (Scotty and Elohcin here) as mafia reads on Day 1, especially when he provides only three mafia reads overall. Good look.

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He pressed me for a vote for either Scotty or S~V~S on Day 1. Nice look.

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This was in response to S~V~S asking G-Man why he voted for her instead of Scotty. He doubled down on his suspicion of Scotty and tried to get S~V~S against him too. The good looks continue.

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On Day 2 he eased up a little bit against Scotty, but still suggested Elohcin was his preferred alternative to lynching me.

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Original post in which G-Man reveals his independent peek on Scotty.

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If there's anything that concerns me about G-Man, it's that he didn't really react much to Scotty rejecting his peek. I'd expect that to develop into a more active conversation between those two than it did.

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His explanation for his decision to peek Scotty on Night 1 is consistent with his words on Day 1.

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G-Man's response to my assertion that Scotty might actually be mafia instead of civilian or independent based on Elohcin's role description. Whether I was right about Scotty being the player named to Elohcin is less important than his alignment. G-Man was hesitant to adopt this mindset, but primarily because of that Elohcin-specific theory. He seemed to trust his peek despite Scotty's protests.

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It'd be good to know if anything has come from this, G-Man.

~~~

There are some iffy moments after his independent peek on Scotty. I do think though that the evidence in his favor is strong enough for me to discard that stuff without worrying about it much. I still feel fine about G-Man.

Scotty/Epignosis interaction:

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Day 1, Scotty fishing for clues about Epi's suspicion of him.

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He provides commentary on Epi but not really a "read". That's not the most ideal thing. I could see his acceptance of Epi's suspicion as being an attempt to calm the aggressor's motivation to go after him though.

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This question really doesn't serve a purpose.

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Scotty drew up this rather arbitrary hypothetical team pairing Epignosis with G-Man.

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Epi was unimpressed with Scotty's reluctance to engage Day 1 with any bravery.

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Earlier in the game I asserted there could be some potential for an Epignosis/Scotty team given his Day 1 vote going to INH (who I felt was always less likely to be lynched even if at the time neither had votes). I am no longer inclined to follow this thread, but I'll put it here again for the sake of thoroughness.

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He maintained his suspicion of Scotty through his spat with me.

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Epi references Scotty's rejection of the independent peek to cast suspicion upon G-Man. There is some potential for coordination between he and Scotty on this one I think.

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Epi was the first to vote Scotty while the larger wagons were on G-Man and S~V~S. He did this knowing I would be likely to join his vote, so I think that's a good look.

~~~

There are a couple small reasons to wonder about Epignosis, but they aren't conclusive. I'm inclined to judge him based on other factors, which at the moment lead me to a civilian read.

Scotty/DrWilgy interaction:

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I think Wilgy was half-kidding in his caps lock "KNOW" declaration because of something I'd said earlier in the game. Scotty opting to say anything about it like it was serious looks like non-team mate behavior to me.

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So does this. Scotty is poking into minor details to try to provide a reason to throw shade at Wilgy.

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Scotty was scurred of our fake peek nonsense (Wilgy and I) and "strongly suggested curtailing it).

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Cop hunting.

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Using Wilgy's jailor claim to crap on G-Man. I think this makes both of them look better.

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A bit vague in Wilgy fashion.

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Response to Scotty's comparison to the Arrested Development game.

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Idle chatter about the fake peeks.

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A little anti-Scotty sentiment.

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He puts Scotty at the back of the lynch priority list which isn't super great.

~~~

Overall I think they're not team mates. Scotty's posts indicate that to me more strongly than Wilgy's posts make me question it.

G-Man wrote:Back for a minute to strategize. I tried to check SVS night 3, so I can't check her again tonight. Figure out the consensus top two and Wilgy can jail one and I can check the other. Or does it make sense for Wilgy to jail himself?

4.02.N

S~V~S and rabbit.

Nailing Scotty here as we did after a night phase with no kill should buy us another mislynch if the need arises. We're at 7 non-mafia versus 1 mafia now in all likelihood. After the night it'll either still be 7:1 or down to 6:1. Both allow for two mislynches before a LyLo phase. We also can now confirm that G-Man and Wilgy cannot both be bad no matter what, so at least one of them has been honest in his roleclaim (potentially both).

If I'm right and we have three opportunities to catch the final baddie, I think it'd be prudent for us to offer our top three suspects or more if you like. I think these are the baddie candidates, starting with the most likely:

S~V~S
rabbit8
Spacedaisy

The most viable alternative to those three is G-Man himself, who I feel only makes any sense as a baddie if Scotty is his team mate (a scenario that is now half-constructed). I don't think he's our guy, but I'll acknowledge that he's at least a logically valid option.

I don't think Epignosis kills Polo instead of G-Man or someone else more threatening. If Quin is bad we're probably going to lose because I see no good reason to lynch him.

Cool beans. I think we can shut this down in short order.

Someone who knows S~V~S better than I do please analyze whatever this is.

And you keep scurrying away from the thread after every snide remark. You're bad.

S~V~S wrote:So you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is?Good to know. You think people are bad based on their association with me, but you won't lynch me.

I am gonna vote for G Man, which is where I am gonna vote every cycle I am alive.

Do you think I am bad or not? You keep tossing these weak "accusations" at me without actually saying it.

Gotta be freaking kidding me.

I'll vote for Scotty since he hasn't said a damned thing.

If you're town, don't quit. Come on.

We only have one mislynch left in pretty much every likely scenario. To volunteer oneself as that mislynch is to say "I don't want to win, I don't care how hard the rest of you have worked."

S~V~S wrote:If you are actually a civ, Jay, this is where you learn about me. I will happily lynch my vanilla ass to expose the baddies. I would NVER lynch my bad self for any reason.

That's the problem. Lynching yourself would expose nobody. It's pointless.

Who is "exposed" if you are mislynched?

S~V~S wrote:I tied it Jay. This way you can lynch ME, and then worry about those associations, right?

I don't think you'd honestly be willing to throw the game away (which could be the case if any civilian pulls this stunt), so you're on.

I'll look at the Scotty/S~V~S relationship to see if they appear compatible:

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote:
Scotty wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Scotty wrote:
This isn't anything new, but it's very intriguing to me. In so many other sites and venues the day 1 is literally random. Like, literally in the sense that in a group, most the time people will vote for someone based on a dream they had, or not liking the name of a person, or what have you. But this site especially has a weird way of dogpiling on someone that has a certain air if suspicion for doing something out of the ordinary. It's always amazing to me that votes on the first day are so justified here. I can't recall the last time I went back to day 1 conversations to get a confirmation of a tonal read on someone. Only to look at votes and who voted for whom, and when.

This is very interesting to me. I love to hear about how things go on other sites, even though I don't plan on ever playing anywhere other than here. I can only imagine how I would be grilled for voting someone Day 1 just because I didn't like their name or had a certain dream about them. Of course there is the occasional random vote on Day 1 here, but it always seem sot be a controversial issue. And it's usually professed as "random", not excused with a silly explanation.
In our original home cultures, Day 1 votes have, for the most part, generally been srs bsns. Someone is gonna die based on our votes, how not srs? People always tended to take flak for trivial voting reasons, randomizing, etc.

@G-Man, yeah, I always tend to get a residual baddie BTS effect the next few games, lol. Oddly, it tends to effect me the opposite way, I tend to want to trust my bad partner from a recent intense game like BSG was.
Scotty wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Scotty wrote:Ah yes, you know I agree with this criticism. Day 1 lynches produce more info than no-lynches, but why even invite a self-lynch. In what world would that benefit town if you are town?
I didn't invite a self-lynch. This is the first suspicious post of the game.
In your opinion.
In my opinion, too, tbh.

I understood clearly what Jay was saying. I am not sure how you would interpret it otherwise?
I've already answered this. I can't help if you, GMan and JJJ find it suspicious. But good to know you think that post is also the first suspicious post of the game.

My current propensity is to vote Polo today, unless he shows up.

Post 20
Sorry for lack of clarity, Mr Word Reader Into guy (to be fair, that is what we do in Mafia, but still )

"In my opinion, too" referred to Jay saying, "I didn't invite a self-lynch.", not the "first suspicious post of the game" bit. I don't necessarily find it suspicious. I think that recently we rely too much on tiny nuances of semantics, and we jump too much on people who talk and pick apart their posts for lack of anything better to do. But I also think it is important to comment on what we notice as we go along, it leaves a trail to be followed. So part of "following my own drummer" means commenting on what I notice; it does not mean I find it suspect. I just like to shake the tree and see what falls out, I guess.

One could say that S~V~S joining me in my initial suspicion of Scotty would be an important indicator, but she kind of dissolved that herself in her next post (the bottom-most in this quote pyramid). She questioned his wording and his reasoning, but she specifically did not adhere to the notion that it is suspicious -- the only thing that is actually important.

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This post exists.

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Might be an attempt to link G-Man to Scotty. It could be a civilian making a connection, or it could be a baddie encouraging a connection. The point is that this is compatible with team mate behavior.

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Why?

~~~

Yeah, I think they're compatible.

Epignosis wrote:TMI?

Too much information -- it looks to me like she already knew both INH and I are civilians.

More Elohcin/rabbit8 stuff:

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rabbit8 wrote:
sig wrote:

Elohcin wrote:
sig wrote:
sig wrote:@HOST why is there no rule number 3?

Also I'd like to bring attention to this.

5. The Mafia team can only interact in BTSC during the Night phase.

I'm not sure how much this helps us, I know the last game we had with this was the Scrimmag, I was mafia and it did make things more hectic and we had much less planning. However, it also made the links less clear. So I think we should keep in mind the mafia doesn't have day chat.

Any thoughts on this?
Rule number 4 not 3.
I agree with you here. I, for one, love my chatzy BTSC when I am bad. Not only for planning and scheming, but for chatty fun. I have been bad in a game (or two perhaps, you guys know my memory) where the BTSC only took place in a separate thread and only during the night. It was a little chaotic, disconnected, and planning and scheming was quite difficult imo. I really hated it, honestly. I didn't even really feel as if I was part of a team. That said, I don't think we need to underestimate the mafia b/c of this. We have some really good players in this game - JJJ, Epi, Scotty, YOU...to name a few. I am sure these are some players that will be able to work with what they're given.
I do like that Elo not only agrees with me, but gets my reasoning. However, I do find it a little odd she'd include me with Epi and JJJ flattered yes, but still a little odd.

S~V~S wrote:
sig wrote:
sig wrote:@HOST why is there no rule number 3?

Also I'd like to bring attention to this.

5. The Mafia team can only interact in BTSC during the Night phase.

I'm not sure how much this helps us, I know the last game we had with this was the Scrimmag, I was mafia and it did make things more hectic and we had much less planning. However, it also made the links less clear. So I think we should keep in mind the mafia doesn't have day chat.

Any thoughts on this?
Rule number 4 not 3.
This is the only thing to get my attention so far,and as pings go, it's *meh*, so just saying it to say it, basically. It actually could be making me think sig is civ more so than the other way around, but it is hard to say this early. It just stuck out to me.

Sig has obviously read the rules including the on famous rule 10,

10. >>>Players are advised not to end any phase throughout their game with 4, 9, 13 written posts or multiples of those numbers.<<<
There isn't a rule 9, either. This seemed like saying something for the sake of being seen having something to say, BUT like I said, *meh*. This seems like a thread full of people playing it safe so far. So I am liking risk taking more than not.

I was not expecting to be playing, and have a crapton of stuff to do tonight (which is why I stole Ricos thunder and self announced, I only had a limited time to post). Toodles, citizens & Mafioso.

Linki, I hate no lynch. Grrr.
This does seem a little odd of SVS to point out about me.

I'm agaisnt no lynching, but don't find people who vote to no lynch to be more scummy/pingy.

I don't think there is any purpose in discussing the merits of lynching vs no lynching day 1 since nobody is going to change anyone's mind.
I don't know what it is but I found both these interactions very weird.

@ Sig: Why is it odd to lump you with JJJ and Epig? Do you feel you're not on their mafia level? Is that why Eloh lumping you in with them is odd? Or is there another reason?

@SVS: "saying something for the sake of saying something....." Not quoted verbatim....

Do you really get the meh feeling from Sig, or was this a way to bring him up as suspicious so you could come back to it later? That's how it read to me. Like you might know he's a civvie.....

rabbit8 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I voted for Eloh. Since she appears to be bad for sure, why backburner her?

Yeah, I just caught up. lol seems Eloh must go.

That's it until Elohcin's surrender. The first post can be called softly defensive of Elohcin in response to sig's discussion of being included among the "good players" pile. I do think the questions rabbit asked were fair and gave him some kind of a chance of getting a better read on sig. I get the impression he wouldn't usually be inclined to completely ignore his team mate in the game thread, particularly without day phase BTSC, but I don't know him as well as some of y'all.

I think he's less suspicious than the other two.

More Elohcin/S~V~S stuff:

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote:Here you go, Eloh. We had discussed me coming in, and when I would be home, but time zones are a bitch, you know? It was Serge.

Ricochet wrote:S~V~S is replacing Serg-

S~V~S wrote:I am replacing in here; I was under the impression that I was going to be announced by the host earlier, but life is crazy in Nauru, amirite?

Haven't read the rules etc yet, just checking in. Also I think H. Swank is hot, a person doesn't need to be traditionally beautiful to be hot. She & Chloe Sevigny (another hot but not really pretty per se actress) burnt up the screen in Boys Don't Cry, which is mainly where I recall Hilary Swank.

Linki, also plan on marching to my own drummer this game.
Ok, then.

S~V~S wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Scotty wrote:
This isn't anything new, but it's very intriguing to me. In so many other sites and venues the day 1 is literally random. Like, literally in the sense that in a group, most the time people will vote for someone based on a dream they had, or not liking the name of a person, or what have you. But this site especially has a weird way of dogpiling on someone that has a certain air if suspicion for doing something out of the ordinary. It's always amazing to me that votes on the first day are so justified here. I can't recall the last time I went back to day 1 conversations to get a confirmation of a tonal read on someone. Only to look at votes and who voted for whom, and when.

This is very interesting to me. I love to hear about how things go on other sites, even though I don't plan on ever playing anywhere other than here. I can only imagine how I would be grilled for voting someone Day 1 just because I didn't like their name or had a certain dream about them. Of course there is the occasional random vote on Day 1 here, but it always seem sot be a controversial issue. And it's usually professed as "random", not excused with a silly explanation.
In our original home cultures, Day 1 votes have, for the most part, generally been srs bsns. Someone is gonna die based on our votes, how not srs? People always tended to take flak for trivial voting reasons, randomizing, etc.

@G-Man, yeah, I always tend to get a residual baddie BTS effect the next few games, lol. Oddly, it tends to effect me the opposite way, I tend to want to trust my bad partner from a recent intense game like BSG was.

S~V~S wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Have you ever dangled a baby in front of a shark to see what would happen? That's what I'm doing. Anyone wanna vote SVS?

This is post 22 of day 1... I think I'm clear.
Inquiry to if anyone wants to lynch svs is different than lynching svs. Never did I say I wanted svs and that people should lynch her.
What was your intent?
Provide an option for those who didn't want to vote Vompatti. As an American I believe in freedom, and I will share that freedom. Yo.
If you don't want SVS lynched, then why name her of all players?
My guess would be because I had votes and was most lynchable because of it.

Sorry Vomps

S~V~S wrote:I voted for Eloh. Since she appears to be bad for sure, why backburner her?

Idle, neutral chatter until after Elohcin had waived the white flag (prior to rescinding her waving of the white flag).

~~~

Separate observation:

Here's how they responded to the case against me and the chance to lynch me:

Elohcin wrote:I see these points, but I don't think they defend the fact that you could be bad.

2.07

S~V~S wrote:OK, I don't get the Jay cases or the INH cases. I am going to vote for G Man, since he was the person to most ping me independent of any other cases.

They chose equal-but-opposite routes. Elohcin accepted the case against me without even trying to explain her reasoning -- blatant opportunism. S~V~S rejected the case against me without even trying to explain her reasoning -- blatant TMI.

More Scotty/Elohcin stuff:

Scotty wrote:
Elohcin wrote:Thank you for answering, it seemed genuine. I will move my vote to Vompatti for now. I am not usually one to move my vote around like this. But your response was pleasantly surprising.

Day 1 #8
Do you think JJJ is telling the truth about dog? What's your feeling on JJJ?
Is there anything particularly surprising about sig's response?

Scotty wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Elohcin wrote:Thank you for answering, it seemed genuine. I will move my vote to Vompatti for now. I am not usually one to move my vote around like this. But your response was pleasantly surprising.

Day 1 #8
Do you think JJJ is telling the truth about dog? What's your feeling on JJJ?
Is there anything particularly surprising about sig's response?
I don't know what I missed about "dog", but I have no clue what you're talking about. I mean, I have literally searched for the word "dog" and only see it in your post when you say JJJ peeked dog.

As for my feelings on JJJ. I am not paying too much attention to his claims. I don't think we can put too much weight on it yet. Players claim things all the time (whether it be about themselves or others) that may or may not be true. I'm not too concerned. It could go like this:
1. he is the cop. Yay, he can help us find mafia.
2. he is not the cop, but the real cop is too scared to come forth b/c he might get nightkilled so we keep on thinking he's the cop
3. he's not the cop, but the real cop calls him out on it (but who's to say that the player who calls him out on it is the real cop. maybe the player who calls him out is just concerned that JJJ IS the real cop and is afraid the mafia will kill him, so he claims to be cop as a distraction to the mafia)
4. Maybe there is no damn cop in this game so we all go on thinking JJJ must be the cop.
There is way too much speculation that can happen on this subject, so I say

sig's response was calm and collected. this makes me think he is civ.

@ sig - I am not sure who else I am considering. I think it will partly depend on scotty's response to this post
Lol "sig" always corrects on my phone to "dog" and these days I have a 40% chance to miss the autocorrect. And sometimes I just leave it because I like dogs.

I agree that those are the scenarios for JJJ, but which of 1-4 do you believe JJJ is doing?

As for sig...I keep going back to what he said in a past game: if he appears civ, he is probably bad, so lynch him. When he is obviously bad, he's probably good.

I don't know how that translates to this game, but I'm not pushing it since I'm still playing along with the scenario that JJJ is in fact the cop.

Neutral chatter about my fake peek on sig which doesn't achieve much except for determining publicly whether I am the cop.

Scotty wrote:Lol I have 10 min
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If there's to be a counter to my wagon, I'm not enthralled by it being Polo. If not Epignosis, I could go for Spacedaisy. I'm open to discussion.
Why, if you don't want to go for the "low-hanging fruit" as you call Polo, would you want to go for Spacedaisy, who has been even more absent than Polo?

You have been soft defending Polo the past few days, and I just don't understand it. You really think SD is more suspicious?

I wouldn't be surprised if you and Polo were brothers in crime. I really wouldn't. I'm nervous to go after you right now in case you ARE the cop, but the connection is there for me. More so validated than your previously proposed INH-Epi-me link.

I'm leaving my vote on Polo.

Quin, was that "explanation" he gave really enough to quench your sus of him? Am I the only one seeing this?

Quin wrote:Scotty, who are the one or two mafia you wouldn't be surprised to be on the Vompatti bandwagon?

28
I could definitely see Elo being bad. I wouldn't be surprised if SVS or SD are in fact bad in that wagon either.

Adverb alert.

He only raised very vague "suspicion" of Elohcin (calling it that is generous) prior to this, but during Day 2 when I was under the most scrutiny he gave us this comment. He tacked S~V~S and SD into it too.

Scotty wrote:Elo: you seem more involved in this game than previous ones. Epi said you were more inclined to be preoccupied during games which is why you avoid the big jobs. This game you seem...eager, I guess? Dunno if there's anything to read from that.

This does look like grade A b/s.

I'm satisfied. Which of the two would you consider the best lynch today? Perhaps Scotty, since he could resolve some of the lingering G-Man confusion. Perhaps S~V~S, who I think is more suspicious at face value.

I am open. :P

Those of you who have rightly surmised that I am unlikely to be Elohcin's team mate, please riddle me this:

After Day 2, we had lynched two civilians. Moreover, the most pressure by a lot was on me, a person you're now reading as civilian. The trajectory of this game was three civilian lynches in a row.

So why the heck would a baddie G-Man choose that moment to fake a red peek on his team mate and turn the game around against himself? This makes no sense. Move your dang votes. They could have just allowed town to carry on with lynching me as they likely would have done, this "gambit" is not necessary.

The phase ends in about four hours. Sense of urgency, y'all.

I know about your suspicion of S~V~S. Please tell me about the other two.

rabbit8 wrote:The fuck is going on in this game?

I don't know, but who do you suspect most? Please give more than one name.

Actually meh, I was baiting Scotty. There's nothing actually there, Daisy.

I'll move my vote to rabbit so we can consolidate this stuff better.

Spacedaisy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Scotty wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:I lied. I'm not the jailer. Scotty just gave himself away though.

Gman check SVS tonight. That will determine whether we vote rabbit or her. The only possible baddie after that is Epi and daisy.
Oh did I now? By doubting GMan or are you channeling Matt-level conspiracy?
Hah, I get it now. Yeah you goofed.

Oh well though, I figured it was you anyway. Good game, sir.
What do you get? Please explain because I feel really lost right now. How did Scotty goof?

I'll explain after he drops by.

lol Wilgy is taking the concept of claiming and fake claiming to the extreme.

I know it's fun and cover is important, but right now we all really need to be transparent. The game is on the line, and we might be in line to lynch the freaking cop right now.

How about this:

Those of you who want to lynch G-Man, please provide your contingency plans for the game following that lynch. What next if G-Man flips town, and what next if G-Man flips mafia?

The one scenario in which a baddie G-Man makes sense to me is if he is Scotty's team mate. I think their combined gambit would be utterly bizarre, but at least it would make logical sense.

If G-Man is bad and Scotty is not, then I am baffled by G-Man labeling him an "independent" and just inviting the obvious refutation from Scotty instead of calling him a townie and inviting no refutation at all. Sometimes people do bizarre things though. Y'all is wack. :P

Too many people are giving us this "go ahead and lynch me" crap. There's no way all of them are bad. Two mislynches might lose the game.

Care.

Please answer:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think that looks bad because she was actually entertaining the notion that Elohcin might be a civilian based upon the most obvious lie in the thread (the one she was responding to with the three laughter emojis).
I have barely read the thread. I would not know the most obvious lie in this thread if it bit me in the ass. And you are trying to make it bite me in the ass.

You are reading incredibly into this. I am a plain vanilla civ. And that's the truth. G Man on the other hand is lying. He "feels" to me exactly as he did when I read his posts in BSG (even before I *knew* he was bad, I just KNEW it, you know?).

G Man threw her under the bus.
Why would I "try to make it bite you in the ass"? What does that imply about me?

Also, I don't care whether you play like me. I didn't say "you're suspicious because you don't play like me". I think your play in this game fits the general profile of many mafia-aligned players I've seen over the years.

I am actually starting to suspect Wilgy more now given the chance that he is saying random things intentionally just to be confusing and make us waste our time, and potentially do something stupid after we've pretzeled up the discussion thoroughly.

DrWilgy wrote:
Quin wrote:Hi, I'm confused.

But this means G-Man's bad, no?
Nope. It means there's a hiding nk preventor. Nothing more.

If this is true, y'all need to come the hell out. I understand wanting to hide from the baddies, but we may be able to solve the game right now (or at least narrow it down significantly) if all the information is laid out on the table.

Scotty wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:I lied. I'm not the jailer. Scotty just gave himself away though.

Gman check SVS tonight. That will determine whether we vote rabbit or her. The only possible baddie after that is Epi and daisy.
Oh did I now? By doubting GMan or are you channeling Matt-level conspiracy?

Hah, I get it now. Yeah you goofed.

Oh well though, I figured it was you anyway. Good game, sir.

I'm confused too. Wilgy please lay it all out in toddler language for me.

Can you expand on Scotty giving himself away Doc?

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