The Syndicate

obligatory HOF reminder to self

There’s also the basic struggle that the low post count may never actually change — at least not enough to make it readable. It’s not the raw number either as much as what’s in them. One giant shrug.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:09 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:57 am Just need *one* reason to call you a civilian that carries some weight. It’s extremely hard to get there in a small number of game-relevant posts.

I think you need to readjust your metrics then. If you can't read sprityo with his low post count, stop trying to read sprityo and wait till he has more posts.

Trying to read people we can't read is what causes mislynches. I got better at this game when I learned to come to terms with my limitations.

That’s just it really. Within my POE, it’s often not a “read” as much as the absence of a read. Can’t wait forever! That’s how mafia sprityo squeezes through in blend mode until it’s too late to finally deal with him.

This isn’t to blame sprityo. Everyone play however the hell you please. I’m just not sure the other civilians can win here.

Just need *one* reason to call you a civilian that carries some weight. It’s extremely hard to get there in a small number of game-relevant posts.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:34 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:29 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 am Btw Jay was the TSP experiment for real? You were copped by us N1 so that's kind of why we went for TSP + it being a non traceable kill.

Yes it was real. The only detail I omitted by the rules was that I had copped TSP. I actually worried he could be the godfather, but decided to spam him as a top dog read anyway to see what happens.

Well played lol. We figured you copped him after seeing your role 'cause that Persona 5 comparison felt like bs

It definitely was bs. What I actually thought was the most likely result of the experiment (other than nothing at all) was me getting shot. I was okay with that being suspected anyway since I was just the Mutt instead of the full-time cop. It was a sort of cover.

The response to that experiment (my reveal thereof) genuinely surprised me. I figured I would field some token tinfoil, but I didn't anticipate it just completely convincing people immediately that I'm evil. Shrug

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 am Btw Jay was the TSP experiment for real? You were copped by us N1 so that's kind of why we went for TSP + it being a non traceable kill.

Yes it was real. The only detail I omitted by the rules was that I had copped TSP. I actually worried he could be the godfather, but decided to spam him as a top dog read anyway to see what happens.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:23 am It is wrong to stick with it because it may be totally wrong. I noticed it on the other part, as mafia, the power of a wrong Poe and the importance of the strong oppinion of dead villagers.

The grouping should be changeable, certainly. If someone refuses to change the POE group then they're asking to lose. Credit in this case to nova for consistently keeping himself out of the POE by the numbers. There were always at least four civilians who looked worse to me. In the end I should have featured him instead of MacDougall, but oh well. Mac and I getting into a game-long mega-tiff is bound to generate an error like that.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:20 amtownie have to be self conscious about his posts like not 'idc what i'm saying, i am town anyway' but 'will I be scumread if i say this'?.

It's always unfortunate to be in this position. A civilian ought to be able to spew out whatever thoughts they want without concern, and most of the time that's me. The last two games though (Persona 5 and this one), I have been wrongly suspected to such an extreme degree that I have actually felt the need to review my own innocent posts with the worry that some stupid small detail will set someone off. I'm rarely even that careful when I'm evil!

Also there is no such thing as JJJ letting himself get lynched. I fought as hard as I could to prevent that, but them's the breaks.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:11 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:57 pm Good. The only losing result that doesn’t completely piss me off.

Good game nova. Nice job. Good game kitties.

Do you see now how much value has a Poe?
I told you and you let yourself lynched for that, to proove it. Your effort in the game was huge o7

There's nothing wrong with the strategy lol. It isn't perfect; nothing is.

Good game, Doggy D. Luffy!

nutella shooting speedchuck in the ass made this closer than it was otherwise likely to be.

The thing that had been irritating me the most by far in the dead chat was the Dom lynch. It was... very bad. But the frustration is alleviated knowing that it was spearheaded by a cat. Instead of just being a total dog derp, it was a clever cat. Cool beans.

Good. The only losing result that doesn’t completely piss me off.

Good game nova. Nice job. Good game kitties.

Why Fayt?

Bad interactions with Rej the cat

Interactions with speedchuck the cat do them no favors

Fayt fits the profile of a mafioso who places inordinate trust in me as have many mafia members before.

Their progression on Long Con looks fake / It set them up for a vote on sprityo

At 26 posts, they're in the "reverse by post count" field. The game hasn't moved at a torrent pace, but it has been quick at times. Cats sometimes struggle to keep up. speedchuck struggled to keep up.

If it isn't Fayt, then who is it?

The remainder of my POE is Dragomir, Michelle, and MacDougall. I do not feel 100% solid about that, and I would hope that those dogs who outlive me engage in thorough dialogue about anyone fielded as a suspect.

Dragomir

If nothing else, he opened this game quite awkwardly. That is in stark contrast to Persona 5. He kinda regained his footing, but even still has had a sporadic and inconsistent rate of participation. Some of his play has ventured into a fancy play syndrome space, or even outright trolling (I want to lynch Jay, who I read as town). These don't have to be condemnations, but they're not reasons for credit either.

Most importantly, Rej's voting behavior can implicate Dragomir. Rej had a clear counterwagon available for some time (Dragomir), and openly refused to vote on it -- even after stating some suspicion. When a Long Con wagon appeared instead, Rej went for it. The Day 2 voting may be better for Dragomir, but only a bit so. It's not hugely inspiring.

Michelle

She has played hard, and her tone has been solid. I respect what she has put into the thread. That's not enough at this point in the game though to clear her, at least not for me -- I don't know her at all and cannot make assumptions. There is no objective or solid evidential basis, to my knowledge, to call Michelle a dog. That means that she is a suspect and should be taken seriously as such.

MacDougall

For the most part I think Mac has looked the part. That's fine. It's not enough though, particularly given that he hasn't actually done much of anything in this game. If you ask yourself what Mac has given of substance beyond *vote Rej* and *give JJJ a whole pile of shit*, what do you answer with? I have nothing. He voted nutella one time I guess? His play is underwhelming, and his treatment of me leaves a lot of room for opportunism. He has used nonsense language like "caught in a lie" or "100% mafia" or "self vote" that does not align with events -- he should really know better after his Wild Card and Finale games. I don't struggle to believe that he has made me his punching bag to help him coast otherwise unproductively.

~~If you think Mac looks like a dog and haven't bothered dealing with him lately as a result, that's a problem and you need to fix it. I don't give a shit what you think of his tone. Challenge him, because he is fully capable of fooling you (the collective you). He's done it before many times to capable players.~~

I could even call him my second-biggest suspect. I don't stand on super confident ground there, but Dragomir and Michelle both look more authentic at face value to me than Mac does.

Is it someone else?

Could be. Give everyone a fair look. I'll tell you why I don't think so, and you be the judge:

Epignosis and Dom: I don't think they kill Turnip Head. Yes, I think that's substantial and meaningful. These dynamics are at play all the time on The Syndicate, and they make sense. Turnip Head was a mainstay here for years and forged friendships with our longest-tenured users. This was his first game back in a while. I don't think these two cut that return short on Night 1.

Long Con - While Rej's voting behavior may implicate Dragomir, it exonerates Long Con (in my opinion). It makes no sense for me for Long Con to be a cat. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but I have not seen a single argument in this thread which adequately accounts for this. It amounts to more tinfoil junk quite like the stuff currently getting me lynched. I know a bad case when I see one.

nutella - Despite her present stance on me, I have followed the thread of her play quite fluidly all game. Her handling of Dragomir and Rej on Day 1, sprityo and speedchuck on Day 2 -- all of that speaks to me. It maps very closely to my own mindset as the game has progressed. I doubt that someone could be so parallel to me and not be aligned with me unless it's deliberate. I don't get that impression. I also like her interactions with speedchuck.

novaselinenever - He had a great Day 1, and I don't think he has seemed inauthentic at any point. I understand the suspicion he has hurled at Dom even if I don't agree. He looks exactly like the civilian novaselinenever that we've seen throughout 2019, if only short a little activity perhaps. I also like his interactions with speedchuck.

~~~

I expect to be dead the next time I log in. If I am not, the game is not over, and there's a locked night -- I hope I am dead when it ends. It's necessary. Shoot me unless you are really confident about the last cat -- then go ahead and shoot them. I have given you folks everything I've got here, so I hope you can make some use of it. Good luck dogs.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:29 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:53 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:51 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:50 pm Fayt > Dragomir > Michelle > Mac

I shouldn't be here.

If Not You, Then Who?

[insert photo of Barney]

Just have 3 ppl.

No guys. That's not how POE works. At least not mine.

I’m going to have to begin my drive soon, and I’ll be out of commission when the deadline hits. I’m content to pop a squat on my Fayt vote. If y’all want to coordinate a tie, I think Fayt should be the other name.

Before I bail I’ll consolidate my full legacy.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:01 pm Your 4 Poe names logic is broken and i told you why JJJ

It isn’t. I will try to explain why I do that when the game is over.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:59 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:53 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:50 pm frustration for his stuborness.

Okay I understand you. So here’s the deal. My POE is going to have four names. It just is. That’s where the numbers are right now.

So if you don’t think you should be one of the four, who should I replace you with?

idk.
I don't make deals

I wasn’t going for a haggle.

How about this: do you understand why I have exactly four names in my POE pool?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:51 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:50 pm Fayt > Dragomir > Michelle > Mac

I shouldn't be here.

If Not You, Then Who?

[insert photo of Barney]

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:50 pm frustration for his stuborness.

Okay I understand you. So here’s the deal. My POE is going to have four names. It just is. That’s where the numbers are right now.

So if you don’t think you should be one of the four, who should I replace you with?

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:42 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:22 pm Looking at the roles we have left... there's a pretty good reason to try to end the vote in a tie. I think we should try to do that.

That'd be inconclusive. Can't conclude if softvoter was on the losing wagon, or if it's coin toss loss.

It guarantees a cat lynch if either tied player is a cat.

If the golden retriever is paying attention

Yup that’s necessary.

Fayt > Dragomir > Michelle > Mac

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:45 pm What is this soft voter thing?

The golden retriever

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:43 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:42 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:22 pm Looking at the roles we have left... there's a pretty good reason to try to end the vote in a tie. I think we should try to do that.

That'd be inconclusive. Can't conclude if softvoter was on the losing wagon, or if it's coin toss loss.

It guarantees a cat lynch if either tied player is a cat.

No, that would result in a coin toss.

Maybe I’m confused.

Say it’s 3-3, one dog one cat

Soft voter votes dog and activates, cat auto lynched
Soft voter votes cat and activates, coin flip

So yeah that’s what I meant

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:42 pm Starting to feel like early day 1 all over again with the attention being on me.

The spotlight is intoxicating.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:22 pm Looking at the roles we have left... there's a pretty good reason to try to end the vote in a tie. I think we should try to do that.

That'd be inconclusive. Can't conclude if softvoter was on the losing wagon, or if it's coin toss loss.

It guarantees a cat lynch if either tied player is a cat.

I’ll put Dragomir back in my bin.

Fayt, Dragomir, Michelle, Mac

[mention]Michelle[/mention] you’ve been shoving my nose in doggy poo all day but I see nary a vote. What are you waiting for?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:32 pm Yeah, it easily could be Drago. If the current shit doesn't fly, I will support Drago being dead before LYLO or MYLO or FYLO or whateverTFLO.

LyLo more like CryLo amirite.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:30 pm Is it too much of a stretch to say that speedchuck was not throwing Rej under the bus as much as he was trying to keep a more powerful kitty role in play?

I’d call it a moderate stretch if not necessarily unbelievable. The development of voting would indicate Dragomir here I think.

I think Dragomir looks mostly like a dog. Evidentially bad and tonally good.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:28 pm Michelle yes, I read him.as town and want to lynch him.

This man loves drama!

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:23 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:54 pm So Dragomir looks better in light of the Day 2 voting. Michelle looks authentic today, but I still lack a concrete or objective basis to clear her.

Mac never entertained anything I said for a second, so there’s room for opportunism. I don’t feel that way about nutella or Dom right now.

If it’s not Fayt, Michelle and Mac are my next suspects up. If someone I have long trusted is a deep cat, perhaps it’s Long Con. I don’t get it, but plenty of intelligent and talented players have beefed. So those four would probably be my present POE: Fayt, Michelle, Mac, LC.

I am trending up in your Poe?
I was authentic... wow.. Feels like you give a little bone for me and i should swag tail and bark happy.
Who gives a damn on authenticity nowadays? Not JJJ who inserts me in his Poe like he knows everything :/

At this point I don’t think you’re even listening to me, so you can be my backup cat.

Michelle is not clear. Tone is useless.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:22 pm Looking at the roles we have left... there's a pretty good reason to try to end the vote in a tie. I think we should try to do that.

Good call. We’ve our soft voter good boy.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:19 pmBless you Long Con. Oh bless you so.

I'm trying to keep it real here... lots of the stuff I read didn't feel relevant to me.

Even if you decide against me in the end, you spent a moment in the rational space that is to me so obvious. It does my heart good. I will rest easier in the dirt knowing that someone got there.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:18 pm What did you say about it, JJJ? Like, something about a rock-solid proof that you are Civ... that's how you prefaced this?

What is that - foolish, unrealistic optimism, or hopeful Plan follow-through?

I called it “as reasonably as something can clear me in a setup like this”. Clearly that was too optimistic. My interpretation of my own standing is colored by knowing exactly what I did with a clarity that nobody else can share.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:16 pm I don't have any issues with going to the office and timing and all that.

To me, it comes down to this: Is the TSP experiment real, and it worked like a charm on the baddie team? I can easily believe that, and I like the experiment very much.

Or, is it a Master Plan that went too far and started looking suspicious? Did baddie JJJ deliberately set this "TSP is Civ" thing up from the start, just so he could nightkill him, expecting everyone to forget WIFOM and just applaud the plan and brand him Civ?

I mean, JJJ has been around a while. I don't know if he, as a baddie, would a) try that plan at all, and b) would remotely expect it to work on this ragtag group of conspiracy theorists.

Bless you Long Con. Oh bless you so.

Fayt wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:46 am And I also reconsidered my read to you but you're on the lower spectrum because I am wondering if you are the last cat, what would be your plan afterwards if/when you mislynch me because 1. you jumped off of Rej. 2. went after sprityo. 3. going after me. Who is going to believe you at this point.

This doesn’t make sense to me. Doggo translators get to work on it when I am dead doggo.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:08 pm What the hell did I just read?

This time I actually am sorry.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:00 pm The sheer magnitude of egotism is astounding.

And I think you’re fundamentally misinterpreting me on this stuff with respect to ego. I think speedchuck is a better Mafia player than I am in a lot of aspects. Anyone can make an error though, no matter how good a player.

I made a giant error today by sharing my experiment at all! I make errors constantly. I have voted like poop in this game so far. I suck!

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:03 pm There's the "zen" again lmao. How many times have you said that this game? It may have been true earlier but certainly not now.

The zen has definitely been challenged! I think I’m hanging in there. In past games I might have insulted someone by now.

OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMM

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:59 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:58 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:56 pm You're asking me to assume that the mafia team didn't think critically and fell into your trap. I think you're actually abusing your reputation here. But the flaw is your assumption that I would have fallen for the former assumption. I don't think speed would have taken your bait, therefore he was in on it with you in a grander scheme.

speed is a great player whom I respect without limit. He fell for it.

You need therapy.

I’m knee deep in it already! I’m too zen this game to take offense to that.

I have actually made similar mistakes as a baddo before to what speed seems to have done. I understand it. I think it was the Currents game when my team and I got baited into shooting a vanilla wafer because he looked like a power role (i.e. his reads sold him as one, falsely). Derps happen to all of us.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:56 pm You're asking me to assume that the mafia team didn't think critically and fell into your trap. I think you're actually abusing your reputation here. But the flaw is your assumption that I would have fallen for the former assumption. I don't think speed would have taken your bait, therefore he was in on it with you in a grander scheme.

speed is a great player whom I respect without limit. He fell for it.

Really if Fayt and I are corpses and the game isn’t over, thorough reassessment across the board is warranted. A step out of tunnels and confirmation bias will be necessary for the rest of y’all in that world. Even if you end up at the same reads.

So Dragomir looks better in light of the Day 2 voting. Michelle looks authentic today, but I still lack a concrete or objective basis to clear her.

Mac never entertained anything I said for a second, so there’s room for opportunism. I don’t feel that way about nutella or Dom right now.

If it’s not Fayt, Michelle and Mac are my next suspects up. If someone I have long trusted is a deep cat, perhaps it’s Long Con. I don’t get it, but plenty of intelligent and talented players have beefed. So those four would probably be my present POE: Fayt, Michelle, Mac, LC.

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:47 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:41 pm Let me get this straight...

You're mislynch bait, so the baddies killed your civ read TSP who, by all accounts would normally mislynch bait, but wasn't because... you thought he was civvie and that apparently would have clout with us all despite you apparently being mislynch bait?

JaggedJimmyJay

Yes, exactly. I screamed to the heavens that a no poster was a definite civilian, and then they shot him. “Clout” is not the important detail. The kitties had to interpret my read, and clearly the interpreted it bigly.

Y’all will see. I can’t wait. I feel like it’s one of my best Mafia tricks ever. I don’t always pull these kinds of shenanigans and it’s such fun.

This really is my fault. I broke a cardinal rule.

Never expect civilians to think straight.

Even if you’re one of them.

I sure did bait them! I’m surprised it worked so beautifully myself. It was an experiment with the game’s lowest poster, so I gave it a go. It was fun either way.

And then they shot him. The EON2 results were a great feeling for this doggo.