The Syndicate

@Sloonei

Forgot to change the font. Whichever one you prefer I suppose:

So long overdue that it's nigh pointless, but that's okay whatever.

@Dragomir
@Elephant
@Evenstar
@Jackofhearts2005
@Long Con
@MacDougall
@Master Radishes

prog mafia

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:09 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:37 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:56 am
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:25 pm I hope the first timers stick around.
I like you guys and will return for future games. But I have no free time for the foreseeable future.

Same mostly. Perhaps that AOE2 thing can be arranged whenever too.
I'm holding off buying DE till Christmas to avoid getting sucked in and losing my already nonexistent free time. I have no doubt I will get into it sooner or later, though, and I'll come calling.

The DE will melt my computer, so I'll probably have to stick with the OG (and it's expansions).

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:56 am
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:25 pm I hope the first timers stick around.
I like you guys and will return for future games. But I have no free time for the foreseeable future.

Same mostly. Perhaps that AOE2 thing can be arranged whenever too.

Elephant wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:00 am Technically, Radishes had no BPV and no poison left, so Jack could've just shot him during the night for a 1:1 win in the morning. This is NOT a kingmaker scenario, unless Jack somehow thinks juliets is not town.

Close enough. If the only function of Jack’s kill is to stop MR from winning, I’m skipping that crap. The game’s over either way.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:34 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:19 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:21 pm Good game everyone

I at the least enjoyed being correct post death, it’s too bad it was swept under the rug. It’s always the games you try the hardest that you lose isn’t it?

Big shoutout to Master Radishes and Evenstar especially for making this one hell of a challenge for me personally
You were formidable as fuck as usual. So underrated.
Please I need to know you’re being sarcastic so I can respond appropriately. I assume you are

When you want to put forth the effort, you are a very capable civilian.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:34 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:25 pm Alright who vigged me?? I’m out for blood.
jk apparently I was scummy so I’d rather take a vig kill than make someone waste a lynch.
Hides behind cover

I read Juliets posts on you and agreed with it so I decided that was a good shot otherwise would have tryied to lynch you the next day. (I have yet to shot a wolf as a vig and now have 5 shots taken)

I respect any vig who just shoots the damned gun.

The lack of day chat was a sort of compromise we decided on late. We figured there were two options to keep communicative rights "fair" enough:

~ Let the mafia chat during the day, but not across levels
~ Let the mafia chat across levels, but not during the day

Both or neither didn't fit our fancy.

I'll explain the rationale underlying our numbers ratios and most basic balance formulations. I don't care to argue about anything or to defend my viewpoints; I simply have no time for that. Manuscripts are now my priority given that 6:00 PM finally belongs to me again.

Folks may disagree with our rationale, and that's fine.

~ Foremost, the numbers ratios we are accustomed to in more classically-built Mafia games (3:1 or 3.5:1 town:mafia) must be adjusted in any game wherein role claiming and infodumping are illegal. This is a considerable hindrance to the town's usual solving methodology, and that impacts the balance of any game in which it is implemented. Generally when this rule is active for an open setup, I favor a ratio more in the 3.75:1 or 4:1 range. This game was 23:6:1 --> 3.83:1 ratio (not accounting for two-way third party swing).

>>> Additionally, this specific game added numerous wrinkles which further challenge the town approach more than they challenge the mafia approach (even if both factions have to adapt, the hindrance is clearly pro-mafia). Consider days 2-4, when town had no previous game content to guide their hunt -- on top of a private voting mechanism that severely limits town cohesion and teamwork. It doesn't make solving impossible, but it certainly makes it harder.

>>> This means that on balance, town's ability to stop BOTH the 3P and the mafia from achieving inception was pretty limited (though in the first iteration they actually did that). The more reasonable goal was to stop one or the other.

>>> I also believe the game is probably more lopsided without the very unlucky poisoning of Evenstar. The timing was awful, and it blew up everything the mafia were doing. That was serious adversity.

~ Knowledge of the game at its onset strongly favored the mafia here as well. They had a clear objective which projected what was coming and enabled planning. Town had no such knowledge and had to adapt on the fly to everything we threw at them.

~ I am of the belief that overall across the Mafiascape online, most hosts simply make life too easy for mafia teams (in ornately-designed games emphasizing thematic creativity that don't lend themselves to balance like vanilla+ type setups). I design my games with that mindset, and even still the mafia have won more than they have lost (10-7 advantage on The Syndicate).

Do I believe this game was perfectly balanced? No. Overall, I would say it's probably more town-sided than it is mafia-sided. I don't think it's a mess in that regard though. I don't think it's worse than a 60-40 win chance from the word "Go" there, and I really think it's closer than that. It must be noted that the mafia are now 2-0 in this setup (and last time town was less hindered). All three factions had a real chance to win this game, and I think the performances of all three factions reflected that. The mafia team started very strong and then fell into very hard times later. The town trajectory was quite opposite. Radish had to overcome being outed as a killing third party, and he did that.

When this game was at the final six or so, I felt every faction had an approximately equal chance to win the game. And I felt that's where they deserved to be too. I am satisfied with the way the mechanics broke down. It may not seem entirely balanced to those who played it, and I understand the mindset. I am not going to argue. I think Sloonei and I got this one as right as we could though despite the immense difficulty of projecting how it would develop.

Elephant wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:32 pm That was a rand that didn't go well (who were the other players?).

MR's selections pre-inception:

N1 - Creature
N2 - Evenstar
N3 - iaafr

[mention]Dragomir[/mention]

This was the game with the most posts ever on RYM too, but that one ended at like 5,600.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:27 pm Man Tex's role would have been so cooooool

Pretty much nothing happened with that role in both iterations of this game.

The degree to which the game dragged was unfortunate. I thought we could be out of here by Night 10. But

G L O B A L
R O L E
B L O C K

I'm very glad everyone could play our game.

11111 replies

Funny note:

When Evenstar initially outed Master Radishes with her parting WIFOM, she didn't actually know it was him. Were it not for that, he might have been viewed as confirmed town due to the Limbo arrangement (at least until Colin could interject).

Michelle

Spoiler: show

Texas Cloverleaf

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:55 pm My favorite part of the game was the mafia team trying find the hidden meaning in the flavor posts.

Really my favorite part of creating this was our coordinated effort to spend an entire month building flavor across four dreams to arrive at the nutsack baguette joke.

I can explain the full mechanical nature of the game later, but I will answer some of the most pertinent questions now:

"What was the point of the submerged levels?"

Both the inception team and the third party had specific objectives down there, namely to get to the Limbo level (DL4) and survive unlynched. If they were successful, they were rewarded. MR's role card displays his reward, but he didn't quite get it. The poisoner role was the weaker possibility for him, so extra props that he made it work anyway.

The inception team prize was earned, and it was as follows:
~ 1 extra unstoppable and untraceable kill (used on nutella)
~ 1x global role block to prevent any night actions [wouldn't work against MR]; they forgot about this though
~ 1 extra usage of their role abilities

Had the inception team been stopped, the subconscious-aligned players would have earned 1 extra usage of their role abilities instead.

"Were the lynches down there meaningful?"

Yes, very much so. We wouldn't implement anything that is completely pointless. The lynches at lower levels were the means by which the "town" could prevent either other faction from achieving inception successfully. At the intermediate levels during later days, the lynches would prevent the lynchee from usage of their discounted roles -- additionally important against the mafia.

"Was it possible for any level to have only townies?"

Yes, it was possible at DL2 and DL3, but never at DL1 or DL4. It didn't actually happen in this game though. Every level was guaranteed to start with at least one non-town player, but it didn't have to stay that way. Hence "no lynch".

I am very appreciative of the kind words, folks. The game was admittedly a trial at times, and I was as ready for it to be over as anyone.

Don't let Sloonei sell himself short though. Every decision I made prior to and during this game came with him supplying equal perspective.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]
[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

G L O B A L

R O L E

B L O C K

Inception Team Chat

Mason Chat

Spectator Chat

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:20 pm thanks for the host, hosts, i highly appreciate with the amount of work put in and amount of stress im sure this caused

thanks to everybody who made this game enjoyable at times, esp juliets, eva, radishes, jack, and benson (not an exhaustive list)

It was a pleasure to host you!

Everyone should have full view of all game threads now. Lemme know if not.

The most complicated hosting spreadsheet of my Mafia career

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:16 pm @JaggedJimmyJay @Sloonei

Fuckin' loved it. Thanks so much.

So glad you played. You were on an island for literally five weeks and are still standing here.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:12 pm So, how did those 3 no kills happen?

Both of your commutes and Radish's one kill protection.

juliets

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005

Spoiler: show

Extended inception team role card

Spoiler: show

Master Radishes

Spoiler: show

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:07 pm Now townies, don't yell at me, I did the best I could.

Without any question whatsoever, you were the best thing the civilians had to offer in this game.

Dat butt tho

After seemingly endless driving, the woman in the front seat jerks her head to the dash.
A bright red light is oscillating left and right within the speedometer.
FINALLY. We're getting out of here.
"Thank sweet baby Christ; I thought this dream would never end." says the man beside you.
"So we are dreaming then. Figured." you snort apathetically. Your mind is elsewhere.
A low rumble under the ground accelerates to a quake, and the scene seems to be collapsing into sensory nonsense.
Just before you can make sense of it, *snap*.
Your eyes open, and you launch yourself upward into a seated posture.
You're oddly sweaty. You must have been out for a while.
The room is empty. That had to be the most vivid dreaming experience of your life.

Without another thought, you reach for your smart phone and enter the search criteria into Google.
"Holy shit flights to Paris are expensive."
It hardly mattered though. There was only one thing you wanted.
A man that you believed to be in France had really pissed you off yesterday. He called himself Anaxagore.
You knew exactly how you'd exact revenge.
You would go to the airport, get on a plane, fly to France, and then hit him in the nutsack with a baguette.

Subconscious Phase 12 has ended.

Lady LambdaDelta was lynched. She was:

Spoiler: show

The inception team has completed the mission and escaped undetected. They have won Inception Mafia! Congratulations to:

Dragomir, Elephant, Evenstar, Jackofhearts2005, Long Con, and MacDougall

Also, for reaching an [essentially] kingmaker gamestate, the independent player has achieved his secondary win condition!
Congratulations to:

Master Radishes

Reminder that anything which can be construed as a concrete reveal of role information, implicit or explicit, is prohibited. This applies to both honest and dishonest content. Let's ensure this game continues in the spirit it has held to effectively for the majority of play time. If anyone is ever uncertain about what is kosher and what is not, simply send a PM to Sloonei and I. It's always better to check first than to make assumptions if there's any room for doubt. Do not interact with, talk about, or acknowledge this post publicly. Thanks everyone.

Note to self: make a priority out of determining how the thread locks its own damned self to prevent it in the future. Don't mind this post.

Have you ever dreamed of watching paint dry?
The surreality of the experience lends it a certain intrigue it lacks in reality.
Do liquids and solids still respect the general trends of physics in a world that isn't physical?
Can you manipulate the scene such that you watch dry paint become wet?
You consider this quietly as you nibble your baguette.

Inception Phase 11 has ended.

Subconscious Phase 12 begins now. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

Subconscious Phase 11

[mention]juliets[/mention] the thread is locked for a night phase.

Subconscious Phase 11 has ended.

Pawn Lelouch has been eliminated by the hosts due to infodumping (public reveal of role-borne information). He was:

Spoiler: show

Any questions or concerns about this should be directed to the hosts privately.

Quin has been eliminated (not by the hosts). He was:

Spoiler: show

Inception Phase 11 begins now. You will have until Friday at 6:00 EST to get your actions to Sloonei and I.

Locking thread momentarily. Stand by. Sorry for the inconvenience; I must address technical issues.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:43 pm Guys I'm at the hospital with dad who is in critical condition. Don't know when I'll be home.

Thoughts are with you, juliets. We're always here for you; I hope for the best.

DEEP

SNORING

Inception Phase 10 has ended.

Subconscious Phase 11 begins now. You have 72 hours to lynch someone.

Subconscious Phase 10

You're feeling increasingly agitated.
Something is bugging you, but you can't quite put your finger on what.
It feels similar to craving some food and having no access to it.
It's infuriating.
You find your thoughts drifting back to the airport...
The car speeds along; the other passengers are arguing about something or another.
You're hardly paying attention anymore.

Subconscious Phase 10 has ended.

ColinIsCool was lynched. He was:

Spoiler: show

112 has been eliminated. She was:

Spoiler: show

Inception Phase 10 begins now. You have 24 hours to get your actions to Sloonei and I.

NOTE:

The next subconscious phase is currently scheduled to terminate on Thanksgiving evening. This will not do. Instead, I am opening the floor for all living players to place a PRIVATE vote. The next phase can be 24 hours long and end on Wednesday evening, or it can be 72 hours long and end on Friday evening. Let me know your preference via PM please. Raw majority wins among those who place votes. A tie will favor 24 hours. You must vote before the current inception phase has ended. Do not talk about your vote when the thread is unlocked.

Your host kindly requests a flavor intermission.
He is extremely busy with work this weekend.
But he's hanging in there.
The game continues though!
Go get 'em, tigers.

Inception Phase 9 has ended.

Trustworthy Liberal has been eliminated. He was:

Spoiler: show

Subconscious Phase 10 begins now. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

Notice: We are implementing a policy. The inception team is required to eliminate a player during the inception phase. If no name is submitted, the target will be randomized among all players. Do not publicly interact with this post. Thank you.

Subconscious Phase 9

"If I am dreaming..." you begin to muse aloud.
"Then I just have to kill myself and I'll wake up. That's what they said in the training."
The man beside you panics.
"You don't want to do that! You may be heavily sedated! We're here to protect you from intrusions."
"You may not wake up under these conditions."
You narrow your eyes and then shrug.
"Y'all got any cashews? I love cashews."

Subconscious Phase 9 has ended.

MacDougall was lynched. He was:

Spoiler: show

Inception Phase 9 begins now. You have 24 hours until 6:00 PM EST to get your actions to Sloonei and I.

Looks like we're battling the phantom thread locker again. Unlocked.

The man next to you is frantically popping off pistol shots through the rear of the vehicle.
"I can't hit shit right now! What is going on?"
You feel bizarrely comfortable despite the combat.
You sit up and turn to look outside.
Your seatmate yells for you to get down. You ignore him.
A man is running behind the vehicle, contorting himself at an absurd speed.
The tank trails him.
This looks really familiar. Wasn't this guy in a movie?
This has to be a dream. It's a total ripoff.

Inception Phase 8 has ended.

Subconscious Phase 9 begins now. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

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