The Syndicate

Looks great! The effort is always appreciated, LC.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Awesome game everyone!! Sorry Quin I really thought you were bad. Lol . We did it JJJ thanks so much for the much needed help at the end.

Thanks for doing whatever you did to force that night phase vote that ended with me returning to the game. I'd have just stayed dead and useless otherwise.

I'm assuming that was triggered by the items you collected in your duels?

DFaraday wrote:So Zuo Ci didn't have any info? Because the way he talked made it sound like he had concrete reasons for believing a bunch of people were civ.

When I was with the Shu family I had BTSC with Glorfindel and Jan/Aragorn. When I was brought back into the game as Zuo Ci, I was tied to Lu Bu (Bass). If Bass had ever been killed, neither he nor I would have been able to win the game.

I tried to work that stuff into my roleplaying so my "reads" could be associated with that roleplay rather than information. It's hard to walk that tightrope though, and sometimes the concept of infodumping remains fuzzy to me even. I resisted their lynches and when pressed for "why" I painted it as gut reads. Sometimes that still looks like information.

You did well though, DF, to survive this long. A little better luck in the dueling ring could have taken you far.

Glorfindel wrote:To Epi, thank you for what (despite at times fairly abominable participation) was a fascinating and thoroughly entertaining game. I am also indebted to you for giving me BTSC with Jay - there is little doubt in my mind that I will be an infinitely better Mafia player in the longer term for the experience Thank you too, to Jay for being such an amazing team member and congratulations on your win!

Congratulations to team Wei, you guys did great!

Whilst I take some satisfaction away from this game for being correct in a number of my judgements, I apologise to all of Team Shu for not having been a better leader for you all throughout this game. I feel humbled to have led a team of such illustrious players like Golden, Jay, Turnip Head and Quin. I'm sorry to TheCapsFan, Sloonei and (especially) Timmer for how things went for us. I would like however to also place on the record my most sincere thanks to my dear friend Aragorn for jumping into the breach so late in the game to take Jan's place

Thanks, Guys - I hope to see you all in Mad Max...

You did a great job, Matty. They killed you because they feared you.

Epignosis wrote:By the way, nobody sent a kill in Night 1. Eight mafia members, and not one of them sent in a kill.

And how much crap did Glorfindel get for suggesting that was the case?

Bummer that the game suffered with so much inactivity. It's clear you worked hard on it Epi. Thanks for hosting, it was definitely a unique experience. It also appeared well balanced, which is, as always, an impressive feat for such a complex design.

Super duper! Great job crew. I'm sorry to the Shu and Wu civilians who don't "technically" win, but you folks still helped us to ensure the baddies didn't take it.

It's especially a bummer that the Shu couldn't win. Glorfindel and Aragorn know what I mean. I was hoping green and blue would have the same number of survivors in the end for a mutual victory or something.

Turnip Head wrote:Confucius say war not determine who is right, war determine who is left.

Confucius was good at English wordplay.

All-time self-voting record is getting shattered in this game.

MacDougall wrote:MP I often use meta as a tool when hunting Mafia and trust my own ability to see when players are sticking to or manipulating the perception of their own meta. I also think the vast majority of players have poor grasp of how it works in execution so I usually don't like it being used by others when I see it.

Also it is interesting that Jimmy decided to sit on his hands. He he knows and has documented me as a meta player in his lists. He could have at least stated an opinion on the subject but chose to wait. Why Jimmy?

Basic strategy. When a player gets hit with a case, I don't think it's ideal for that player to be defended until after he/she has spoken for him/herself. I have no idea what you might say and I'd prefer to let that happen; it can help to substantiate a read ideally.

I agree with you. I think meta is a significant part of your play and it always has been.

Mac is right when he references my RYM lists. This is what I have documented as Mac's strengths (it's way outdated now, but this basic point is probably still valid:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote ages ago on RYM wrote:Strengths: Mac is one of the premier players on RYM when it comes to metagaming. This has been an oft-crticized means of acquiring suspects, but Mac's play is essentially all the evidence I need to feel differently. He has a very thorough perception of pretty much all the frequent players, and he knows what to expect from them in various scenarios. I am also a big fan of his aggressive style, because regardless of his alignment it is always a sure means of producing content in the game thread. People are provoked by him, and they cannot resist (should not resist) the instinct to respond to his accusations or his theories. Especially early in the game, Mac often is the game, in that his influence creates most of what everyone else attempts to scrutinize. In my opinion, that is the definition of productive town play. He has clearly become very proficient at using this to his advantage as scum too. He is one of the most difficult players on RYM to lynch, both because of his perceived value as a townie, and his ability to coerce the town to fear him (or the prospect of lynching him) when he is anti-town. He often makes bold gambles as scum, and they often work.

I'm voting now because the site keeps crashing and I don't want it to happen when it's too late. Russtifinko and timmer.

I cased nutella hard in Bullets Over Broadway and I was wrong.

I cased nutella hard in Battlestar Galactica and I was right.

In this instance I think the case material presented by MP is less thick (understandably under the circumstances), but it's good enough to be in the duel discussion.

Golden wrote:Did Bass or bwt explain why they want to be involved in the duel?

Bass prefers his animal namesake over the marmot.

BWT didn't have time for an informed vote and just picked himself to check the box, IIRC.

Golden wrote:Even in BSG where she was bad, the case against her seemed to be all about her btsc with LoRab that she didn't have, and I felt like the case on her was wrong (from a host perspective).

That wasn't what my case was about.

Dom wrote:Why not DFaraday though.

I don't think he's suspicious. His reasons for voting you aren't inspired, but that's the kind of thing he always thinks about when he votes. In Transistor I was a baddie and I literally relied on him incorrectly suspecting townies for pretty much the same bad reasons (i.e. people not explaining their votes, people acting unusual, etc.).

I'm leaning back toward a Russ vote. I'd like to get Dom out of range to duel and that's the most agreeable way of doing so. The second vote is a tougher call. I am fine with putting MM in a duel, but I'd also like to make another option possible. Perhaps timmer.

Bullzeye wrote:Not being able to post at night really sucks for me because that's how I usually get myself caught up and claw my way into a game.

If I may make a recommendation...

I've found that dead night phases can offer an opportunity to catch up while the thread isn't simultaneously exploding. It's a nice opportunity to look through things at your own pace and identify posts people make that you want to talk about. You can even prepare your posts ahead of time, maybe in Word or Notepad or wherever, and then whenever you're around during the following day phase you can just dump those pre-made posts straight into the thread. The conversation of the hour may be somewhere else, but who cares. Say your piece.

Bullzeye wrote:I was under the impression this game was going to be more chilled out and not impossible for me to keep up with

With 38 players?

Perspective is funny sometimes. I was just groaning about the game moving too slowly.

I might vote soon just in case this thing crashes at the wrong moment. :P

I think Jan's failure to check the roles is more town-inclined than not, albeit with a fair helping of WIFOM. I think baddies are generally more likely to check their stuff against the role list before they put it in this thread. Carelessness isn't a trait I associate with the bad guys.

Boomslang wrote:Linki w/JJJ: I'm worried about your focus on tone rather than content when it comes to Russ's posts. And I'll outright say I find it suspicious, so you don't use the same argument on me :P

We're talking about posts made in Days 0 and 1. "Content" is not a thing. Tone is everything that early in the game.

I'm feeling rather inspired, MP. On some level I've found myself wondering if nutella has been too agreeable (as in she's accepted the consensus suspects without really asking questions), and I think you've done a good job of conveying that in the form of a legible case. I hope she shows up before the day ends because I'd like to see her rebuttal if possible.

One concern I have is that you're influenced by a bias MP -- the suspects she is pursuing are the same ones you are defending. I do think you make some good observations though and I am more interested in a nutella vote than I was an hour ago.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I want to lynch nutella.

I'm open. Whaddya got?

Scotty wrote:If that's the case, I never want to hear about my Day 1 brigade against non-participants.

You can be certain that this is not the reality you will know.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I guess I'm just confused as to what exactly makes Russ bad in the second half of your case there, specifically with respect to the 'turning' it back on you. I'm not sure that's always manipulative, since civilians can emotionally react and do that.

If he had actually accused me in a concrete way, I might agree. My problem isn't that he turned it against me, it's that he did so via saying negative things about me but never actually implying that I am suspicious. It's a common discredit method, a recent example was in Battlestar Galactica when Daisy (after being converted) did it to Epignosis in response to him accusing her.

Sorsha wrote:I'm here

You should talk to MP about his beefs:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sorsha wrote:I think I'm going to vote for two of the prefects. Jimmy, Scotty, INH... See who's the toughest.
What is the advantage of doing this?
What's the disadvantage? Scared?
And this kind of post is why I have so much trouble reading Sorsha. I can't make sense of this response. Despite my gut screaming that this is face value suspicious, I've been fooled by Sorsha and many other players (Roxy and S~V~S come to mind) and historically read them very badly in the past because apathy and these kinds of loaded questions always read insincere to me. Anyone have a read on Sorsha yet?

MovingPictures07 wrote:For folks who played Transistor when zebra was acting "weird", ignoring people's requests for elaborating upon her actions, and talking like a cheerleader or something, Dom is that this game. This is a BS lynch.

Who's here? Someone get a CFD going with me. I haven't finished catching up yet, but at this point I'm thinking DFaraday and timmer, the latter due to what I posted above and DF because I think he looks the most potentially opportunistic of the people who have already voted Dom, MM, and Russ to me. That said, I'd be cool with anyone who's absent or mostly absent since it seems this will be a continuing problem. Almost anyone but the three people with the most votes, frankly.

I think your Dom-Three Kingdoms / zebra-Transistor comparison is a good one. I'm not thrilled with that lynch either. I don't think I'm inclined to pursue a double CFD because I do suspect the other two leaders, but I'm considering a timmer vote. I don't suspect DF. His vote is also comparable to Transistor, where he voted frequently for people who were seemingly "bizarre" on the surface (zebra/Mac/llama) in that game. That's his MO.

MovingPictures07 wrote:This doesn't seem forced to me FWIW. And I do think there is an inherent desire to try and find and then provide reasons for prefect votes to prevent everyone from hiding behind meaningless votes, so Russ's perspective here is one I can completely understand and I think it's not indicative. Am I missing something?

I don't think you're missing anything. We just read the post differently at face value. To me it appears rather inorganic; the strategy you assign to it looks to me more like something a baddie would design to feign investment in their votes while townies would just do whatever the hell they want on Day 0. I could be wrong, it's never inspiring to judge people by such early content.

MovingPictures07 wrote:This all seems within character for Russ (particularly the strong language, which, if memory serves has been lodged against him before with mixed success), and I'm just not seeing your distinction for the accusation response. Help me out here.

This kind of thinking is something I'm actively avoiding after recent games have shown it to be dubious (I believe). I think this is the kind of stuff that people said about Long Con in Talking Heads (bad), MacDougall in Talking Heads (bad), Epignosis in Turf Wars (bad), etc. There are exceptions I'd imagine. I think I could clarify it like this: your perspective may be valid, but I think it's more "this is why your attack on Russ isn't necessarily convincing" as opposed to "this is why I think Russ is good".

Haha, 22 votes accounted for (11 players out of 37) with less than four hours until the deadline.

Is anyone else having trouble getting game threads to load?

Sorsha's behavior late in Day 1 wasn't exactly inspiring, but it doesn't concern me either. I have had moments kind of like that -- emerging into a thread that I cannot catch up with in time, so I just poke someone hard in real time and see what happens (as she sort of did with me). I won't give her a pass for apathy; that sets a precedent that I am not content to set. I can't say I'd feel better about a Sorsha vote than a random vote though.

I can agree with the notion that a busy player who hasn't kept up throwing votes on the larger wagons is more suspicious than those who just vote randomly. There's more potential for an agenda to exist in the former example (in this case presumably if nobody among Dom, Marsh, and Russ is on timmer's team).

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm quickly uncovering that the case I just didn't clearly understand from JJJ about Russ might be all there is going on here. What else is there, folks?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I didn't like Russ's recent "Congratulations on lynching Wilgy, guys!" It doesn't feel honest.

I think I'm voting for him today.
Speaking of Russ:

Russ, it'd be groovy if you could talk to me about my Day 1 case against you. It's a new day and I am not one to cling to old material, but I need inspiration to change my mind. Let's chat. We've already talked some about the first point, so please focus on the other two.
Did Russ respond to this?

I don't believe so.

MovingPictures07 wrote:In fact... *looking at the poll* If Jay or someone else can succinctly explain to me why Dom, MM, and Russ are receiving votes, or at least point me in the direction of stuff I should pay attention to, that'd be great. As awesome as 100 ppg is in making me feel like I have less to read, I still have a lot to read. And I think once I get to the end of Day 1 I'm going to take a break to work again for a couple of hours, and then come back and try to catch up.

I can't on my phone, but if you CTRL+F Marmot and Russ in my ISO you'll find it quickly.

sig wrote:Okay I'm voting Dom for reasons previously stated and lorab since she has posted yet hasn't caught up or in fact posted again since she made her first one that is odd. I'm unsure of MM but wouldn't mind seeing him duel. I don't recall the case on Russ at all so I won't vote there.

Linki I think it makes Mac look slightly more pingy yes. I'd like to see what he says though.
I'd rather not duel hin today and leave him alive for another phase since I think it is to weak to lynch on

You think that's weak, but you feel good about voting LoRab?

I'm considering what you've said about Mac, MP. I'd prefer to see his response before I comment though.

I'd rather lynch Russ than Dom among the people vying for second place.

The best thing about 100 ppp is that it makes ISOs much easier to navigate. CTRL+Fing 4 pages for a high-posting player is so much less exhausting than CTRL+Fing 12 pages.

I'll probably be around.

MacDougall wrote:I don't think Marmot is a good candidate either. I don't like that the case has trace elements of Wilgy wifom in it. Wilgy is a savant of causing wifom to work the way he wants. I feel like he would be expecting Metalmarsh to get suspicion from that post. I also think Metalmarsh is playing the game way too casual considering his situation.

Understandable. I don't feel super great following a Wilgy WIFOM thread either. The only reason it didn't mean nothing to me is that the party in question is MM -- Wilgy's best competition on The Syndicate for WIFOM champion. I think there's also WIFOM in MM's content; he spoke more of Wilgy than anyone else perhaps despite Wilgy having made no memorable posts at all during his lifespan.

I'd like MM to continue talking with me so I can sort out my feelings,

Actually I do have one ping for Dom.

Dom wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:Folks, don't trust Lyin' Scotty and Tricky Jay. Lyin' Scotty looked for an opportunity to seize power without any sort of content. Tricky Jay has used bad thinking all game. Not good, folks, not good.
I don't necessarily think you're bad Dom, I'd just like to have a conversation. What have I said or done that you haven't liked?
My distrust of you, Tricky Jay comes from you campaigning for yourself for prefect. That seems wildly out of character for you.

(c) Paid for by Dom/Nju 2016

I'll channel our host here. That's more suspicious than the average adverb. I also don't know why someone who has played Mafia with me before is saying it's out of character for me to make myself the center of attention.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Did you want to duel Scotty?

Disregard. I thought your other vote was on Scotty, but it was on TH.

Did you want to duel TH?

If you wanted to duel Wilgy, why didn't you self-vote?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:No, it's supposed to be a can. But for those of you calling it counterproductive, how do you interpret my reasoning for it? Why do you consider it vote-worthy?

I voted for prefects on my way out the door for a camping trip. I didn't know how the lynches were going to work, and I guess I had a different mindset when I returned. Additionally, I wanted to duel Wilgy. Had there been no duels, I don't think I'd have voted Wilgy.

Talk about the other points I made. I'll give you some direct questions:

Why did you bring up LoRab when you conversed with Wilgy?

Do you think it's fair for people to suspect that you and Wilgy are both buckets of WIFOM and that his painting you as his team mate shouldn't just be discarded?

Why did you want to duel Wilgy?

Did you want to duel Scotty?

Were you trying to capitalize on me being called a baddie by the messenger town role at the start of Day 2?

Who are your suspects?

Do you prefer green beans or wax beans? Is this the interrogation room?

I don't think I find Dom especially suspicious. His approach might be frustrating, but I wouldn't call it baddie-indicative. I don't think he's hiding behind his Trump gimmick (accusations like that nearly always fall flat in my experience). He could perhaps do more to explain his actions, but if he was bad I think he probably would do that. It isn't like it's hard.

reywaS wrote:I miss playing with you guys.

You should certainly sign up for one. We've got a couple cooking right now.

Turnip Head, what are your beefs with MM?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Counterproductive? I can understand that explanation. How would you justify it?

If the lynches didn't turn out to be duels, I likely would not have voted DrWilgy on Day 1.[/quote]

This post confuses me. I'll try to answer it in pieces.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Counterproductive? I can understand that explanation. How would you justify it?

Is this supposed to be "can't"? The question mark after "counterproductive" suggests to me that you're not in agreement with that term being used.

If not, I don't understand the need to justify my explanation if it is understood. You supported Wilgy to earn a unique distinction and then you helped get him killed. I'm trying to discern why those two truths coexist in this game.

If so, I'd like you to tell me why you felt your actions were the appropriate actions to take.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If the lynches didn't turn out to be duels, I likely would not have voted DrWilgy on Day 1.

What does this mean?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:You summarized (iso'd) DrWilgy's interactions with me, and called them iffy. Why are they iffy?

The reason you provided for voting Wilgy and I for prefect can be viewed with some doubt now that he's flipped as he has. I'll just copy/paste the rest.

Spoiler: show

Quin raised a good point as well when he identified the counter-productivity of your voting behavior. You supported Wilgy in the prefect vote, and then you voted to put him in a duel and potentially die.

EBWOP

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey Marmot, please talk about those things I said about you related to Wilgy.
I don't have much to say about Wilgy. I would've liked to lick him myself, but I'm still pleased to see him slain.

What does it mean to be a prefect?

I'm not asking you to talk about Wilgy. I'm asking you to talk about the things I said about you at the start of this day phase.

Why are you asking me a question about being a prefect that you know I cannot answer?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Also, considering your vote total, why did you vote the way you did on Day 1?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Also JJJ, though I'm reading you as town right now, I was surprised to not see your votes used for self defense when you showed up at deadline.
Yeah I got here at literally XX:58 and had to phone vote, I didn't even look at the tally. I'm surprised I even got my votes in on time.

Checking the tally first might have prevented me from getting my votes in, it was that close. I didn't know I had received as many votes as I had when I placed mine. I kind of just had to throw my votes down without thinking, so I put 'em on the two suspects I had talked the most about on Day 1.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey Marmot, please talk about those things I said about you related to Wilgy.
I don't have much to say about Wilgy. I would've liked to lick him myself, but I'm still pleased to see him slain.

What does it mean to be a prefect?

I'm not asking you to talk about Wilgy. I'm asking you to talk about the things I said about you at the start of this day phase.

Why are you asking me a question about being a prefect that you know I cannot answer?

Also, considering your vote total, why did you vote the way you did on Day 1?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Also JJJ, though I'm reading you as town right now, I was surprised to not see your votes used for self defense when you showed up at deadline.
Yeah I got here at literally XX:58 and had to phone vote, I didn't even look at the tally. I'm surprised I even got my votes in on time.

Checking the tally first might have prevented me from getting my votes in, it was that close. I didn't know I had received as many votes as I had when I placed mine. I kind of just had to throw my votes down without thinking, so I put 'em on the two suspects I had talked the most about on Day 1.

This phase is moving slower than I'd like. A baddie was eliminated on Day 1. Get excited folks.

For the moment my votes are most likely to fall on Metalmarsh and Russ. I'm wide open though; I just need people to get in here and say some dang things. Make posts. Be merry.

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