The Syndicate

*chews straw* It's m'pleasure, ma'am.

Only Neil truly knows how to satisfy Neil.

Looks pretty sexy to me, G-Man. And I know sexy. I'm Neil Hartley.

farting eloquently in Brisbane

fucking evil bastard

In LyLo2 I started to lean more to Quin, just because I felt the core of his argument against Dom was hypocritical. While insisting Dom wasn't answering questions satisfactorily, he was himself failing to answer questions satisfactorily. I really wanted to lynch them both though, and I was leaning Dom in LyLo1 so I may have never seen a LyLo2.

I also can't remember another game where only one player survived -- and that player is a townie.

I'm pretty sure you were the first to firmly turn against Zebra Mac. In hindsight we probably should have considered that more when you were nightkilled.

I'm glad Sloonei finally gets a banner. It's actually a kind of sweet justice: he won this game even though he arguably should have lost -- just like in Turf Wars when he lost but arguably should have won. Them breaks, man.

Also, mad props to Zebra for putting together a great high content post history for her entire duration in the game. It had most of us fooled for far too long.

A few notes:

~ This is the first time I have ever seen a Mafia game go into "overtime" if you will. When LoRab locked the vote at the end of LyLo1, I was pretty shocked. Observing from the grave, I was pretty torn throughout LyLo1 and I think I'd have ended up at a Dom lynch. What she did was brilliant though, because it 1) gave the townies in play more time to consider the situation and 2) confirmed her as town. She eliminated herself from contention and sent the game to a new cycle with that information now in play. I didn't anticipate that at all and it was awesome.

~ Dom and Quin: both of you deserve so much credit for how hard you fought through LyLo (both of them). The end of this game is something everyone here should be proud of -- if you ask me that's what Mafia is all about. Evidence was in the thread, but in the end it still came down to sleuthing, deception, and inference: the core of Mafia. It was very exciting to watch, and I can imagine excruciating to experience. Neither of you backed down for a minute despite facing that kind of pressure for nearly a full week. Thank you both for that.

~ Sloonei and LoRab: your teamwork in the end was beautiful to behold. You found the evidence you needed cooperatively to clear each other, and then you did everything you could think of to sort out the other two. The final choice may have been the wrong one, but sometimes that's just how Mafia goes. You left no stone unturned and made the best decision you felt you could make. Nobody could ask for more.

~ Quin specifically: you deserve to win this game more than any single player I've ever seen lose. I say that with confidence; I've really never seen anything else like this (the closest thing being Russtifinko's hard luck finish in Talking Heads). You did everything you could possibly do to finish the town off, and frankly -- you succeeded. It was only very bad luck that did you in. It's times like this where I think we should remember that winning and losing isn't always about how well you play; sometimes it's about where the breaks fall. I am not going to rememeber this game as a Quin loss; it feels absurd to say that.

~ G-Man: you designed an extremely fun game with a great balance of complexity and simplicity -- everything was visible and solvable, but there was room for intrigue (as seen at the end). Your write ups were awesome, and those alone made my Neil Hartley nonsense worth it. Bravo sir.

~ Epignosis: it's understandable that you weren't to give it the focus you'd have liked, but there's no denying you still impacted both of your factions positively in each body. Elohcin killed your ass pronto out of fear, and in your return you were just obscured enough to make your team mate links muddy. That's what caused the whole Dom vs. Quin drama in the first place.

~ Glorfindel: you did a great job as a baddie player under pressure for as long as you were. It's a great example of a philosophy I've always had as a baddie -- it's not about avoiding suspicion, it's about surviving suspicion. It didn't matter that anyone was on to you because town didn't take care of you until it was very late in the game -- late enough that afterword there was literally zero margin for error. That is the definition of productive baddie play.

~ Elohcin: your best contribution was in the trail you left -- there was no conclusive connection from your end to attach you to Quin, which was a big part of his comfortable position for so long. That counts for a lot.

~ All the townies out there -- it was a cooperative team effort to maintain your motivation despite the poor start to this game which facilitated the comeback. Everyone played a part in that and I'm proud to have been a part of this town team.

~ Everyone: you were a part of the game of the year, IMO. Pat yourselves on the back.

wat

Hey guys, is town going to win?

Quin wrote:I knew I was being subbed in a few days before I actually did because G-Man wanted to make sure I was still on board. I think I looked at the thread beforehand if that's what you mean by 'benefits'.

Would you say you suspected Elohcin before you hopped in officially?

Quin wrote:LoRab didn't backpedal like Eloh did; she claimed your roleplay was suspicious based on principle and held that ground whereas Eloh took the 'I was just trying to provoke 3J' route. The backpedaling was what I remember basing my suspicion around.

You cast some suspicion prior to the backpedaling, but you didn't become more aggressive about it until after that. So I kind of agree.

I went back and checked. G-Man announced you'd replaced into the game at 8:31 PM my time on the 20th. You made your first post 17 minutes later. In your fifth post, you made your first move against Elohcin, approximately 5.5 hours after rejoining the game. Do you think you enjoyed any benefits that enabled you to take this correct action so quickly?

Sloonei, here's a prompt if you have the time (unless you're already working on something else in the game, do that).

What are the best things working in favor of each of Dom and Quin?

What are the worst things working against each of Dom and Quin?

Question for Quin:

In your work against Elohcin, you repeatedly cited her treatment of my Neil Hartley roleplay as a reason to be suspicious of her. That's fine, I felt the same way. However, LoRab also cast some suspicion upon me for my roleplay and you acknowledged that here:

Quin wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Glad Epi is dead. I was gut feeling him as bad and this makes my life easier.

Someone tl;dr me for day/night 1.

So, a civ is very likely dead and you are glad about it? Hrm.

His post caught my attention as well. Did I make a mistake letting it go based on the fact that it came from Wilgy? I don't think so.

Sloonei mentioned in a post that you were pinged by 3J's roleplay earlier, LoRab. Can you elaborate on why? Was there a reason to suspect him for it in this specific case, or is it based on principle?

This wasn't a point you followed up on. This means you were a lot more forgiving of LoRab for being suspicious of my roleplay than you were of Elohcin for the same. Why was that?

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dom wrote:Again, the only motivation he would have to AGAIN detract from an almost sure baddie lynch is to try and end the game.

If it's the only conceivable motivation, why are you terrified that you're wrong?

Because I'm assuming you and Sloonei aren't tricking me.

What of LoRab? INH?

Dom wrote:Again, the only motivation he would have to AGAIN detract from an almost sure baddie lynch is to try and end the game.

If it's the only conceivable motivation, why are you terrified that you're wrong?

Quin wrote:I've been answering for that this whole time by voting the person who's case I argued was the strongest. Epi worked out. Dom is still bad.

I know, and I'm saying it's befuddling that you could ever think your Dom case is stronger than someone pretty much saying "yeah, I'm bad, good game, but you won't find my team mate neener neener".

LoRab wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:How likely is it Quin is bad?

Likely enough that he should be critically assessed. Genuine as he may appear, his stubborn planting of his votes lately leaves him conveniently detached from two baddie lynches. I think it was close to an absurdity on Day 9 to call his case against Dom more conclusive than Epignosis conceding. He's going to have to answer to that.

It's also not ideal that Dom made it clear he felt he was being pursued as a game-ending mislynch but then wouldn't commit to calling Quin a baddie. For his premise to make sense, Quin must be a baddie. To be unsure is understandable, but the suspect pool is tiny now and that's the narrative he has pushed.

He has accused anyone who has named him throughout the game. He suspected me earlier in the game for having a vague suspicion of him. And others who named him, as well, I think (I know he suspected me, because personal--I believe he suspected others, as well). This is typical of him--I'm trying to think if this is particularly typical of him when he is bad. As I said earlier, his paranoia is something that pings my suspiciometer for him...that's along those lines....But I'm just not sure.

I'm so unsure on this final lynch.

Just to ensure I understand: are you referring to Quin or Dom in this post?

Sloonei wrote:How likely is it Quin is bad?

Likely enough that he should be critically assessed. Genuine as he may appear, his stubborn planting of his votes lately leaves him conveniently detached from two baddie lynches. I think it was close to an absurdity on Day 9 to call his case against Dom more conclusive than Epignosis conceding. He's going to have to answer to that.

It's also not ideal that Dom made it clear he felt he was being pursued as a game-ending mislynch but then wouldn't commit to calling Quin a baddie. For his premise to make sense, Quin must be a baddie. To be unsure is understandable, but the suspect pool is tiny now and that's the narrative he has pushed.

I had a feeling he would flip as Johnny the Boy, specifically the vanilla baddie. When we lynched Glorfindel and Epi suggested an alternative, he mentioned a desire to eliminate the roleblocker instead of the inert baddie. He left his vote on Dom.

We have three realities to consider that I can think of:

1. Epignosis was trying to mislynch Dom and end the game.

2. Epignosis was pretending to want to lynch Dom the roleblocker knowing that it would be unlikely to stick anyway.

3. Epignosis was willing to actually lynch Dom the roleblocker with the hope of collecting the town credit.

Cool. One more. Battle royale, y'all.

Someone tape this guy's mouth shut.

I'm going to be out for the night soon. I fully endorse and and encourage an Epignosis lynch. Consolidated votes would be preferable just in case there's any nonsense we're not prepared for. Otherwise, I hope all the townies out there can try to finish this game strongly so they're easier to identify with confidence. We've been walking the tightrope but victory is within reach.

Dom wrote:They would have won for a few days if they got me lynched.

So you're saying then that the baddies are Epignosis and Quin full stop?

*talks to the termites under the floorboards*

Dom wrote:Because they win if they get me lynched now.

Wouldn't they also win if they get you lynched next?

So much self-defense. I will never understand.

*flicks cigarette* Everything's childplay these days after Talking Heads.

I just noticed that this game has a pretty decent chance of surpassing Economics Mafia for the Side Mission with the most posts.

So go ahead. Explore each others' bodies.

I need to let you both dig more into your exploration of each other and of LoRab. I'll stop asking so many questions for now.

I might actually say Quin has moved ahead of Sloonei in the Town Race. He looks thoroughly genuine in every post; if he's fooling me then I'm sure fooled. Sloonei doesn't really look "bad", but his posts has been shorter lately (reminiscent of his comments about Dom earlier in the game) and he doesn't seem terribly invested. I'd expect more fire from a guy with a chance to nail down his first town banner on The Syndicate.

Quin wrote:I would prefer my town read to not be kept in your armpit. It needs sunlight.

Rest assured, I wasn't talking about my armpit.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Estimated chance of being town:

Epignosis = 0.01%

Dom = 15%

Quin = 75%

Sloonei = 75%

LoRab = 90%

INH = 99%

I am getting these numbers from a dark, humid place.

Estimated chance of being town:

Epignosis = 0.01%

Dom = 15%

Quin wrote:Yes, but choosing the wrong teammate means we lose.

Yup. For me, Dom is the one who is the higher risk of being that.

I actually think the case against Epi/Zebra is stronger than the one against Dom even without the concession. It's why I voted for him before the concession. I don't see any half-reasonable reality for a town Epi. I can fathom a town Dom.

Quin wrote:Question:

Was Glorfindel an inevitable lynch? I know you don't like it when I suggest that sort of thing. But I'll still ask.

I wouldn't say he was an inevitable lynch, but I would say he was a likely lynch -- likely enough that Epignosis could make a half-hearted motion in another direction without expecting it to actually develop.

Quin wrote:It would make him look better at face value.

That's the fun part when I think about them as potential team mates.

I kind of get the impression Epignosis intended for this to be our response. "Oh okay, Epi was trying to win the game with a Dom lynch." Which would imply...

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

Sloonei wrote:Day 6 dominates my thoughts on Dom in this game, and I can't quite make up my mind on whether or not his behavior was bad. I'm not sure I've ever seen a scum Dom before, but the type of aggressive self-defense he exhibited against Quin and I that day is not something that usually strikes me as baddie behavior. It's not 100% town behavior either, but I town-read him at the time for it, and I still can't shake the feeling that he's just the easiest target right now.

This is the 20th post on Day 9 where I express doubts about my confidence in Dom.

The doubts are understandable. GTH, who's the last baddie if not him?

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.

What is your perspective of the recent interactions of Dom and Epignosis, going back to the Glorfindel lynch when Epi pursued a Dom lynch instead?

He was claiming to be acting in the best interest of town by trying to find a baddie who's vote had a value. However, given that this was at Lylo, it was to be expected that nobody (except me, I guess) was going to lynch him. If Dom and Epi are teammates then his vote was safe there. But this does nothing for Glorfindel's safety, and he was bad. That, and the fact that this came at Lylo makes me doubt it was civ motivated.

This is a valid point that would make Epi seem worse than Dom in that context.

Do you feel that reflects on Dom in any certain way, when considering a bad Epignosis in that scenario?

Sloonei wrote:He's bad and doesn't want to give us any more information to use at lylo.

I agree. How do you feel about Quin's adherence to his Dom case in spite of this development?

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Do you have an opinion on Epi?

Do you have an opinion on Epi?

He seems to have given up.

What does that mean to you?

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.

What is your perspective of the recent interactions of Dom and Epignosis, going back to the Glorfindel lynch when Epi pursued a Dom lynch instead?

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:His sudden 180 is suspicious, but it is not the most suspicious thing and not something I am going to place a vote for at Lylo.

When you say "his sudden 180", what does that mean? How has he pulled a 180?

I'm referring to his concession and his posts since.

When you imagine Epi is doing this as a townie, please try to describe to me what you believe is happening inside his head. What is motivating that behavior from a town Epi?

Quin wrote:His sudden 180 is suspicious, but it is not the most suspicious thing and not something I am going to place a vote for at Lylo.

When you say "his sudden 180", what does that mean? How has he pulled a 180?

Sloonei wrote:Do you have an opinion on Epi?

Do you have an opinion on Epi?