The Syndicate

Nice, juliets. Here it is for the other winners:

Banners just came down for Romance of the Three Kingdoms too, so winners should check out that thread.

I think she got it right.

Sorsha was the bussing champion of 2016 and is well on her way to defending her crown.

Major props to Epi for that read. I think that secured the win.

I also thought both of my Friday posts were transparent even without the quoting error. What can ya do.

Long Con wrote:I can't believe that whole war started over "I didn't think he was being serious".

I think "you should be able to tell the difference" sent me so far down the tunnel that there was no hope.

Yes I was being truthful. Maybe the one good move I made in this game since it helped to open up the Wilgy lynch.

Long Con wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:...you're arguing with a person who thoroughly analyzes every word in a game thread over and over.
I thought I could count on you.

Yeah that's just it. The game thread is my area of focus. It's common for me to forget about roles.

I did read it, but I clearly didn't retain it. Or revisit it. It came so early that I forgot the details.

1. Make crappy reads.
2. Get dead.
3. Win game.

Good game mafia, great job civilians, and thanks for a wonderfully fun game Mongoose. I always appreciate when a game is light hearted and creative like this one was.

Long Con, sorry for trying to force you into a woodchipper. It was an accident.

i think I recall you mentioning that you'd received a weird message. You intended it as a hint, I took it literally to mean it couldn't be you. Derp.

Epignosis wrote:You two are on restriction. You are not allowed to suspect or talk to one another. Go to your rooms and think about other suspects.

-Your mom, Skeletor

What if my new suspect is you?

Labyrinths are cool. I picked it again.

Cool beans. Do ya thang, Mongoose.

This would probably increase the likelihood that the Jean Genie is Denim Mini. With the secret role resolved, those *secrets* appear to be the most applicable source.

Epignosis wrote:"I'm sorry we lynched you."

"You lynched me? What? I thought it was night!"

I'm not kidding.

Semi-bummer. At least she wasn't a civilian.

No ties. No ties. No ties. NO TIES.

Quin wrote:The suspect pool is narrow but there's no room for a pass while we wait on content. Ok.

That's right. We don't have an infinite number of day phases to screw around. Every single day survived by a baddie is a significant victory for their team. That's literally how I approach the game when I am bad -- what do I have to do to make it to the next day phase?.

Elohcin not being here is not an indicator that she's a civilian. It doesn't matter to me.

Sorsha wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:All:

Tell me why we shouldn't lynch Elohcin.
What do we learn if she flips civ?

That she wasn't bad. The suspect pool is rather narrow in my eyes and it would be simple enough to proceed from there to a new option.

I care about lynching baddies. That is my priority. Worrying about what we might learn if X is a civilian is a losing strategy IMO.

juliets wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:All:

Tell me why we shouldn't lynch Elohcin.
She's not here to defend herself, which I know is an "old-school" reason not to Lynch someone but you asked.

Yeah, that's not my favorite thing either. I'd still lynch her though. Ain't nobody got time for free passes.

Quin wrote:I don't know why this would mean anything. They have changed, for the most part.

linki: Because she is a less-than promising candidate. She feels like a good Day 1 lynch right now. That doesn't fly here.

It would mean that you're either very stubborn or you're fake. Neither is ideal. I think you are 0 for 3 in your Boomslang/llama/JJJ triumvirate and those seem to be the names you've been most interested in hanging for quite some time now. I have a new challenge for you:

Tell me why your suspects are civilians.

All:

Tell me why we shouldn't lynch Elohcin.

Quin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey Quin, somewhere in your lamentations about being so sorely wrong in this game so far, have you considered reassessing your reads?
You know, contrary to popular belief, I don't just ride my conclusions to hell.

Your current suspicions appear to be the same as they were on Day 1 for the most part.

Hey Quin, somewhere in your lamentations about being so sorely wrong in this game so far, have you considered reassessing your reads?

llama voters: what does this mean to you if anything?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I believe it was Epignosis who said that Wilgy's Day 1 vote improved the outlook for llama -- I agree. Wilgy pushed llama as a suspect early in the game and voted accordingly, at the very end of the phase, in an attempt to save DDL. This looks like opportunistic suspicion upon an easy target (I think that's what llama was on Day 1 given his behavior toward Sorsha). The vote was an easy one for Wilgy to make. That reduces my tinfoil on that front.

If y'all are going to be crazy, please just don't force a tie FFS.

insertnamehere wrote:He's a very craftsy individual. I bet his first grade macaroni portraits were stunning.

I once puked on a substitute teacher in the second grade. That's when they knew I was going to be somebody.

Quin wrote:What's the gist of the case against Eloh 2.0?

~ Process of elimination

~ Her suspicions of Epi and I look fake

~ She requested an extension and didn't do anything with it

~ Her Wilgy vote was too late to mean anything, and when she answered to that it was pretty much to second my own comments.

~ I am less personally invested in the circumstantial replacement-relevant suspicion, but it exists.

nijuukyugou wrote:Yeah, just gonna put my money where my mouth is and bite the bullet. Voting JJJ.

I understand. Maybe someday we can heal the wounds of Transistor. Maybe someday we can be at peace.

I also get the impression Elohcin felt obligated to suspect Epignosis because of his circumstantial suspicion without regard for other things that might affect that read on him.

I voted for Elohcin.

Elohcin wrote:Okay, so as Elo 1.0 I got an eerie feeling about jjj but didn't bring it up because I had too much to think about with quin. But this lynch doesn't look good on him. So, he is added to my list of possible baddies. So far I have jjj, quin, and epi that I will look at more throughout the night and day 4.

This is pretty yikes. How can I integrate myself into the anti-JJJ environment of the thread?

I believe it was Epignosis who said that Wilgy's Day 1 vote improved the outlook for llama -- I agree. Wilgy pushed llama as a suspect early in the game and voted accordingly, at the very end of the phase, in an attempt to save DDL. This looks like opportunistic suspicion upon an easy target (I think that's what llama was on Day 1 given his behavior toward Sorsha). The vote was an easy one for Wilgy to make. That reduces my tinfoil on that front.

I am pleased with the effort juliets has given in her earliest attempts to catch up. I acknowledge that the pressure is minimized when she's immune to being lynched, but I don't think she had to do this. She could have lurked around for a while and gotten to know the game through BTSC instead.

Quin wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:If I'm not in imminent danger of being lynched, I'd probably be most inclined to vote Quin today. The truth of the matter is that until the whole "1 baddie in the LC/Quin/INH" trio thing is debunked, my head is gonna be on the chopping block.

I'd rather get ahead and save my head by voting Quin, who has been in my shortlist of suspects for a while now. It's a high risk/high reward situation. Until the possible baddie in the trio is caught, I'm going to keep taking heat, and the civilians will be stuck with the same topics of conversation. If I'm wrong about Quin, I also accept that I will almost definitely be going home D5.

I'm willing to take that risk.
I'd rather you did vote me. The fact that I'm still alive is off-putting and I think that there's some serious shit going on behind the scenes. I'll even self-vote if it comes to that.

If you're a civilian I would urge you not to do that. There are numerous ways where your alignment could become more evident than it is right now. You're not an obligatory lynch in this or any phase.

Long Con wrote:JJJ is my favourite person in this game, because I'd probably be nightkilled by now if it weren't for him.

This is a new point about Long Con I am thinking about. On a couple occasions he has asserted that he's pleased to receive some suspicion because it dissuades his being night killed. In this comment he says he'd have probably been night killed without my aggression.

I don't know why he'd feel that way. Even without me in the equation, his voting record is still bad and there's still no objective evidence in his favor. I don't see why he'd ever be night killed over the people who have been targeted (Boomslang and Marmot were both strongly trusted after the DDL lynch, and Elohcin 1.0 had roleblocker cred).

On some level this reads to me like a bad guy feeling the need to justify his continued survival.

Another point regarding the bloc: I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that one of them is bad. I don't think there's any reason to eliminate a Daisy/Elohcin team, and there's still room for reasonable tinfoil on some more trusted players (llama and Scotty come to mind first).

Perhaps I'm a sucker, but INH's dejection is reading okay to me right now. And in this "bloc", the remaining player who I feel has looked the least genuine at face value is Long Con. It's a very difficult choice because I am struggling with at least one thing for the other two as well. Quin's suspicion of Boomslang is wack, and INH's handling of his immunity is wack.

At least INH has just granted that his immunity is not active today. That's a meaningful thing when he leads by two votes. If he is lynched and nothing happens, well then he's clearly bad. He'd know that. I believe him when he says he is lynchable today.

Boomslang, it'd be ideal for you to at least answer to Quin's allegations.

oh hi, linki

I'm considering a vote for Elohcin.

insertnamehere wrote:Me surviving and literally anyone else that I don't know the alignment of surviving benefits the civilians.

A no lynch would hurt the civilians. That's why we need to know.

Separate question: what is your current read on LC and Quin?

insertnamehere wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:INH I really need the deets on your prize.
In what way would it benefit me to tell you?

There's no one else being talked about, so there's a 90% chance I'm being mislynched today.

If I say I did use it, people won't believe me or call me a hypocrite for suspecting you for saying the same thing.

If I say I didn't use it, people will vote for me anyway.

The only way in which I benefit is by not revealing whether or not I have it.

This isn't about whether you benefit. It's about whether the civilians benefit.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Quin wrote:I suspect Boomslang for actual reasons. ISO, fam.
I ISO'd, fam.

These are the posts I found in your history in which you cast suspicion upon Boomslang for reasons unrelated to his survival:

Spoiler: show
Quin wrote:Boomslang, did you read the entire discourse between me and LC? I struggle to see how you can be on board with the 'boosting my post count' idea if you had done so.

I also disagree with your stance on 3J. I'd ideally have done the same thing, because it allows Sorsha to confirm or deny whether she was watching the thread without realising it.

Quin wrote:You're expecting me to come out guns blazing at the onset of suspicion, Boomslang. He used the wrong word to describe my posts, and I told him I thought he was wrong. He elaborated, so I elaborated in turn. It's not 'deflecting' if I address the point, either, so there's another instance of people using buzz words that don't fit. I think to say now that you think LC's point had merit shows that you didn't really evaluate what you read, because whatever point he made was quickly refuted, and even he didn't pursue it. Unless, of course, you want to tell me that my three posts were insistent, even with my elaboration of their contexts.

about Sorsha - Maybe I can rephrase, because I was painting it a bit too cut and dry. If Sorsha is being legitimate about not being around, she'd say so. That doesn't really say anything about whether she's good or bad, just that she wasn't around. If she didn't bring it up, it heavily points to the idea that she was around, and it adds value to 3J's thought process.

Quin wrote:I feel like I should elaborate on my Boomslang read.

He's come across as disingenuous twice in his cases against me.

The first time, he jumped on LC's theory that I was being insistent by pushing my argument against 3J. This was after I discussed it with LC and even he moved on from that specific element of his argument. He still assures me that he read the dialogue to the end, which clearly isn't true.

The second time, he accused me of backtracking in my theory as to why he survived, even though nobody had expressed suspicion at me for it at the time. Backtracking isn't a thing in that context.

He's not voting me either. He wants to bring attention to 3J, so he's not voting me. Even though he's suspected me more than anybody else in this game. Nah.

I'd call a baddie team of llama, 3J and Boomslang.
It appears all of this suspicion you have of Boomslang (these posts are all Day 2 or earlier) stems from the direct interaction between you and him. A couple questions:

1. What worries do you have, if any, about being influenced by bias?

2. Do Boomslang's voting record or his survival mean anything to you or no?

Hey Quin

Granted I still don't understand Quin's suspicion of Boomslang. That's something I'd still like to sort out. Lemme fetch a post for you, Quin.

Epignosis wrote:Question: If INH was off the poll, who would get your vote and why?

I think I'd be deciding between Elohcin 2.0 and Long Con right now. Process of elimination leads me to them plus Quin, and I think Quin looks okay at face value. LC is a lasting suspicion; my biggest hesitation would be the significant personal bias I know I have embedded in that suspicion. Elohcin would be the safe choice. LC would be the gamble. I'm not sure what my final answer would be.

How about you?

INH I really need the deets on your prize.

Sorsha wrote:I know still have some catching up to do yet but I'm not understanding how jay and LC were at each other's throats for days and now nothing.

You'll see it as you continue reading.

juliets wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I can believe that he won a lynch immunity given that LC is claiming the same. Either neither is lying or both are.

However, the important detail is whether it has been activated for today.
I believe I said it before. Welcome to the deathless world of Mongoose.
I'm going backwards through the thread and I have to stop here and ask what this is about. Do you really think Mongoose would have given away three Lynch immunities? That just seems, well, hardly believable. Did this happen in her other game and thats why you made this comment llama? Or did something similar happen?

It appears plausible that she did. Three of us are claiming it now and we can't all be bad. I want to be clear on one thing though in case it isn't clear already: the immunity is given to someone the night before (can be given to oneself). It isn't automatically a self-immunity.

Made wrote:oh snap, wassup juliets.

I'm reading Quin's call to kill him as a perfect Wifom, and because of the fact that I've been there... a lot, but have never thought to call for a lynch of myself because of it, I think of it more of a moot point rather than something I can read as a point in either direction. That said, looking at vote record I think there's a stronger case for Quin rather than INH. While both records are pretty crappy, Quins feel more like attempted saves than INH's does. I'm more inclined to view INH's as unlucky gut reads based off of the fact the votes were so early. Alternatively, voting early to prevent having to vote for teammates still leads me to suspect INH, but just not as much as Quin.

Thoughts?

I'm excited to see how far the expansiveness and continuity of Mongoose's Deathless Universe stretches as we continue to play.

I'd say Quin's votes are slightly worse than INH's. Quin's Day 1 vote was a true counterwagon while INH's wasn't. Their Day 3 votes are about the same. I think Quin looks a little better at face value though.

Hi juliets.

That removes a vote from candidacy today. I think I'm looking at this pile then:

Elohcin 2.0
Long Con
Quin
insertnamehere

INH's immunity raises a problem, but that problem can be resolved if he tells us whether he has protected himself with it today.

I can believe that he won a lynch immunity given that LC is claiming the same. Either neither is lying or both are.

However, the important detail is whether it has been activated for today.

What do you mean by "repeat herself"?

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