The Syndicate

I would estimate fewer than 1 of 5 games I've played or observed have not had participation issues of some sort. It's just part of the game.

I agree, DDL. Those three being modkilled would have been pro-civilian. Hell, even if just the two civilians had been modkilled it would have been pro-civilian. They don't bolster the civ numbers while alive if they never vote, and their absence allows someone else to be lynched who played the game.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:09 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:07 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:06 pm I was planning on mod-killing players who failed to vote for three consecutive days in the game. Nothing to do with posting or with anything but voting. Problem?
I wouldn't care for it. I think posting is a proper measure of activity and voting isn't -- unless you require voting in the rules.
It is only the lack of the civ vote that results in inactives potentially breaking the game though?

In a game-deciding scenario, an actively-posting player is going to vote. A player who cannot be judged by anything other than a random number generator (by virtue of not posting) is already screwing up the game.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:06 pm I was planning on mod-killing players who failed to vote for three consecutive days in the game. Nothing to do with posting or with anything but voting. Problem?

I wouldn't care for it. I think posting is a proper measure of activity and voting isn't -- unless you require voting in the rules.

I don't blame Quin or anyone else for not wanting to modkill. It sucks.

I do think it's better than leaving a skeleton in the game though.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 10:00 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:59 pm I didn't care about your posting rate. I cared about the contributions you were[n't] making in the posts you provided.
I made contributions. You didn't like them or didn't acknowledge them.

I definitely didn't like them.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:59 pm I didn't care about your posting rate. I cared about the contributions you were[n't] making in the posts you provided.

And if you don't think that's relevant to your alignment, I don't blame myself for that.

I didn't care about your posting rate. I cared about the contributions you were[n't] making in the posts you provided.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:51 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:45 pm If I am being honest here, I think this game was more about great mafia play than terrible civilian play. I don't look back at any of these lynches we made and say "what were we thinking?".

We didn't ignore the active players. We lynched Jack. We didn't give people a break who did things we thought were suspicious. We lynched lapluie and sprityo. The Dom and Pennywise lynches were pretty much required by the numbers anyway, so crying about those is pointless.

The mafia members were just never the most suspicious people on the board. That's the goal. Well played, well done.
I don't think the civilians were expressly terrible but in a game where the Mafia are good you still want to think that the civs can possibly win no? I am just trying to help people understand how we beat you. It's educational. If you'd rather me not then I'll happily keep it to myself.

Oh I don't mind, by all means share your thoughts. I'm just expressing why I don't despair over this thing.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:49 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 9:46 pm I didn't shoot Epignosis because he was poking me. I just thought his play made him a decent shot to be the unlynchable mafia boss -- and if he is that, I must shoot him during the night phase.
I can't be lynched...

...so I played like that?

Come on man.

How do you play if you're unlynchable?

I didn't shoot Epignosis because he was poking me. I just thought his play made him a decent shot to be the unlynchable mafia boss -- and if he is that, I must shoot him during the night phase.

If I am being honest here, I think this game was more about great mafia play than terrible civilian play. I don't look back at any of these lynches we made and say "what were we thinking?".

We didn't ignore the active players. We lynched Jack. We didn't give people a break who did things we thought were suspicious. We lynched lapluie and sprityo. The Dom and Pennywise lynches were pretty much required by the numbers anyway, so crying about those is pointless.

The mafia members were just never the most suspicious people on the board. That's the goal. Well played, well done.

It started frustrating, but a certain point of futility the frustration turns into comedy. Sometimes it's just not in the cards, and doing anything but laugh is not healthy.

I don't agree with your #3, Mac. I think that's a bad policy and would result in more failures than successes if honored.

Otherwise sure.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 8:44 pm Because how on earth could JJJ not see that Mac was buddying him all game.

If buddying is a sure-fire scumtell, then I am never a civilian.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 8:00 pm And, sorry I couldn't get a replacement. I'd sent like 3 rounds of PM's but it just wasn't meant to be.

*re-ignites the modkill argument*

Naw it's cool. You tried. It's a shit sandwich with no good solutions. Thanks for hosting in any event! I am clueless about this theme but had fun nonetheless.

Also, late in the game it was clear that nobody should trust me and that it was a cause for suspicion when people still did. Unfortunately though, I couldn't genuinely trust anyone. I have never felt so untrusting of so many players (and that is no criticism since I was horrible in this game). The only person I was sure was a civilian when it ended was wolbre04 -- and he wasn't.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:55 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:52 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:49 pm I don't understand why people were dead set on lynching no-shows.

Kills were going through, and they were smart ones.
After the first four misses, it's mathematically impossible to win if they're civilians anyway. If they don't vote, we can't control the poll. The mafia have a numbers advantage even when they don't. Everything else was moot.
That's five misses to you.

I am exactly as sorry about that as you were about your lynch stop in Fire Emblem.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:52 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:46 pm Since I officially suck at Mafia now, please adjust your expectations accordingly in all future engagements.
Man that post I made about your playstyle change was sincere... I really do think you have had a change in playstyle lately and I'm not sure if it's helping you or not. I think you are way less willing to be called out as being wrong than before, and more winning to tunnel. And we noticed that and let you lead the town into oblivion over and over. That Jack lynch was particularly pitiful, I made the most half-assed excuse for voting for Jack anyone has even seen, and you went over it and didnt suspect me because I was agreeing with you.

Maybe you need a break, or maybe you should make a point not to try to be the town leader next game. It might open your senses a little. At least it worked for me last time I was on a bad streak.

No hard feelings, you're still one of my favorite players.

Playing this way got me an 8-1 record in 2017 and it's sucking in 2018. I think it can work, but any playstyle needs to be molded with the times. The site seems to have caught up with it.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:49 pm I don't understand why people were dead set on lynching no-shows.

Kills were going through, and they were smart ones.

After the first four misses, it's mathematically impossible to win if they're civilians anyway. If they don't vote, we can't control the poll. The mafia have a numbers advantage even when they don't. Everything else was moot.

Since I officially suck at Mafia now, please adjust your expectations accordingly in all future engagements.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:38 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:36 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:36 pm What motherfucker murked me

I have words for you
I shot you in the face.
I am glad you were a civilian, because now I don't have to throw my computer across the room (even though it deserves it for unrelated reasons).

Granted, at the time I thought my role was nightly and not one-shot -- I believe if I didn't pull the trigger it would be randomized. So.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:36 pm What motherfucker murked me

I have words for you

I shot you in the face.

Thank you for killing me. Now history will only remember that I was dead when this game ended and thus clearly helpless to change the result.

Seriously, great game folks. Obviously some of my reads were shite, but that is a testament to the excellent play of the mafia team in this game. Y'all earned it. Even as I attempted to forge a last-minute POE, it ended up almost exactly wrong.

Between Fire Emblem and this game, I am slumping horribly. What can ya do.

Also good game Kyle -- I don't know what you did to win, but you got there so nice.

Nah, this is just the worst game I've ever played. I'm over it though. We did everything we could in the 24 hours of Day 6 and it didn't go our way.

If there's a Day 7 I will do things. I have work I should be doing.

It's 4-4-1. The mafia have to outnumber the civilians and they don't yet.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:57 pm I disagree. The game is not over yet. There are too non Mafia roles in play with secrets. Maybe the secrets will save us.

Could be. The game isn't officially over since we're still here talking.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:53 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:48 pm well we could've won if we, y'know, lynched mafioso instead of random inactives, but I'm glad your strict mentality has remained unshook

linki: Yes.
Lynching four mafia members without 2 civilian votes and only a 1-player edge is mathematically impossible. The game was over days ago.
So you're saying that Marmot is Mafia. Got it. Cold comfort for me.

I'm saying it doesn't matter who's mafia. The civilians cannot win without all of their votes in a game decided by a 1-player edge. No matter what we do, we cannot defeat math itself.

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:48 pmThis is my energy right now after another civ kill

You did what you could. Sometimes the game of Mafia is just a butt.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:48 pm well we could've won if we, y'know, lynched mafioso instead of random inactives, but I'm glad your strict mentality has remained unshook

linki: Yes.

Lynching four mafia members without 2 civilian votes and only a 1-player edge is mathematically impossible. The game was over days ago.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:46 pm well golly lynching random inactives didn't pay off for the second time in a row

gee wilikers

You have read 3% of this thread and presume to get on a high horse?

Oh well. We couldn't win anyway with two civilians failing to play the game and thus being unavailable to vote.

Just wasn't meant to be this time I suppose.

#everythingyoudoiswrong

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:39 pm even if we're about to lose I'm glad we did some facsimile of our best today

I scoured over LC's posts, and I am getting more of his resigned-effort civilian vibe of recent memory than something more sinister.

I think we made the best decision I was able to come up with. That's all we can ask for in any lynch.

Barring hero play from one of those out of POEville.

If Pennywise is not a mafioso, I think the team would have to be exactly:

INH
LC
Marmot
nova

We have 13 minutes.

If Penny is not mafia, name 4 people who are. Go.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:20 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:19 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:13 pmall the baddies are just gonna pile onto them in order to end the game
Too bad for them a civilian lynch won't end the game.
huh?

Spoiler: show

Let's play: if you're a mafioso do you deserve to win?

DDL - yes
INH - no
Kyle - yes
LC - no
Mac - yes
Marmot - yes
nova - yes
Penny - no
wolbre - yes

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:13 pmall the baddies are just gonna pile onto them in order to end the game

Too bad for them a civilian lynch won't end the game.

Long Con tried to look like he was the vigilante and only backed off when it was made clear that he must. Thoughts?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:06 pm the quiet is making me nervous

At least this time we don't have some easy wagon taking off.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 8:03 pm pennywise was almost lynched day 5 right?

that would be a good source of analysis

I think he had a few votes before the masses consolidated on Dom. I agree that it's an interesting moment.

One point barely in Penny's favor:

If the killing role is absent, the probability that none of the kills so far would have landed on the independent or a mafioso is .237 / 23.7% (.75 ^5).

Still, that's not a staggering number and it's only one of three lynchable mafia roles.

Long Con himself strongly balked at being called the sniper. I don't think it's him.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:38 pm do you feel confident that we can do this, jay? today i mean?

Lynch a mafioso today? Sure. Even without the considerable effort we've given here we'd have just under a 50/50 shot at random. I think we've done everything we can do. I certainly feel better about the present lynch than I did about Dom.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:32 pm I'd feel a bunch more comfortable if I could reduce the second list by one.

Which of those five would you feel the least comfortable lynching?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:29 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:19 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:13 pm Jay if we lynch the unlynchable mafia does it end the game or do we get to try again tomorrow since wincon only happens when the mafia numerically over takes town?
Quin requires the mafia to completely outnumber the civilians, so it wouldn't end the game. Either a civilian dies netting a tie with the indy vote in tow, or the indy is "killed", revealed, and a 5-4 advantage is sustained.
so what exactly happens if we hit the indie by mistake? is that not a game over?

it would likely leave the civilian fate at the whims of an independent though with an unknown win condition.
so then it's not the end of the world if we find the unlynchable mafia today.

I can't answer with certainty given the number of variables in motion. It may not be the end of the world. It wouldn't be ideal.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:20 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:10 pm was there ever a point where the silences didn't seem random?

who have the silence targets been
Scotty
Marmot
MacDougall
novaselinenever

Those are the ones I remember.
do you think Scotty might have been a nonrandom choice? he's frequently very loud

Potentially. He was silenced early when everyone was still here. Even Pennywise was active at one point.

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