The Syndicate

Hah, I know I don't deserve that. Tons of great players around here, and I've won exactly one game. :P

I'd even be excited to see one of my RYM mates give that a shot (as the RYM rep I mean).

Yeah this game has been over for a while. I hope this blowout doesn't turn people off to the setup -- a lot of the intrigue and balance is lost when the cop is immediately dispatched. A lot to learn from that.

Meanwhile, voting for the Maffies is finally underway. I am pretty sure the people who care are in this thread anyway.

Looks like I was wrong!

My gut is useless anyway. :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:Zebra actually is female; I had to clarify that with her. She recently has identified as being female, but this is in contrast with years previous, hence the confusion.

Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. Sorry when you see this, Zebra!

Just for future reference I'm pretty sure Zebra is male.

I think he's highly suspicious because of his complete dismissiveness of accusations and half-hearted attempts to make everyone else dread lynching him.

I think Zebra's played a weird game if he's town.

I don't disagree Golden. I think I probably used language that sounded stronger than I intended -- I dig that certain structures and rules are traditional here and I don't want to sound like a mafia-xenophobic curmudgeon.

Obviously the methods I've honed for years in Mafia aren't really compatible with a survivalist game, but that doesn't mean I couldn't try other things. I think I would play completely differently in such a game and I'd probably be perceived as less useful, but maybe that's how it's gotta be.

For me it's very simple:

It's better for someone to win a game that they didn't necessarily earn than for someone to be denied a win that they absolutely earned.

I mean no offense to anyone with a contrary viewpoint, but I really have no interest in playing any game that isn't dead or alive. I think that's a completely different game -- it's no longer Mafia and instead it's something else.

I do think of town as a team.

FZ. wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

FZ. wrote:MP, did they know I was the cop?

Did they?

You'll find out at postgame, since I'll make their BTSC public to everyone then.

So you're saying I was obvious?

I don't think you were obvious. I don't see anything in your posts that screams "I'm the cop!!!" at all. I think the mafia got lucky and you got unlucky.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Talk to me about fake peeks. This is something I feel the players definitely should have employed here, but many of them could be unaware of that strategy completely.

To those who might be unaware of what MP is referring to, a "fake peek" in this setup is an unambiguous read planted into the thread by any player other than the cop meant to appear like it was brought on by the free ID that the cop receives at the start of the game. I think there are a couple significant benefits to this:

1.) It's the most fundamental method of cop cover, something that is definitely necessary to protect the cop from the sort of misfortune FZ experienced in this Night 1. If players leave fake peeks in the thread and are convincing about it, they might draw night kills from the mafia -- and a vanilla townie being killed is less damaging to the town cause than the cop being killed. It's a form of self-sacrifice and it's very important. This might seem like something from another planet in this Syndicate environment where many people are accustomed to survival being paramount.

2.) It's extremely valuable as a means of generating objective evidence. Players can be read based upon their position in the fake peek scenario. The most significant example of this comes in the form of "SHC" (seer hunt cleared) opportunities. They call it SHC on 2+2 and elsewhere because they tend to play within the "Werewolf" aesthetic more than "Mafia", so you could also call it "CHC" (cop hunt cleared).

What this means is that fake peeks and night kill selections can be analyzed together to get conclusive evidence that a player is innocent. I'll draw an example out using RYM names:

JaggedJimmyJay says on Day 1 "I think Sloonei is a strong town read and will not participate in his lynch today." or more literally "Sloonei is my free peek."

On Night 1, the mafia kill JJJ and he flips vanilla townie.

This means Sloonei is seer hunt cleared -- because in this setup the mafia have a massive motivation to eliminate the cop as quickly as possible, and any night kill choice prior to the cop's demise can be reasoned as an attempt to kill the cop. In this case, the mafia would have killed JJJ thinking he is the cop and that Sloonei is his free peek. If they believe this, then it is impossible for Sloonei to be mafia because the free peek cannot be mafia. Any player who leaves a fake peek that ends up being a mafia player by default cannot be the cop (barring intentional fudging, but this is difficult and rare), and the mafia understand this.

However, there is also some added risk if everyone employs this strategy. As I said, any player who leaves a fake peek on a mafioso by mistake is close to eliminated from contention for being the cop -- and this helps the mafia team narrow down the pool of possibilities. For this reason, it is crucial that players only leave fake peeks on people who they genuinely feel are solid town reads.

Along with this, it's paramount that the cop him/herself leave the necessary breadcrumbs to allow everyone else to know what his/her peeks were in the event of an untimely death. It is a shame when the free peek or any subsequent peek gets lynched because the townies were unable to discern who they were within the cop's content. For this reason, unambiguous reads are often needed for the sake of clarity in that analysis -- and cover is needed from the vanilla townies to ensure the mafia can't isolate the cop based upon those unambiguous reads.

This is why a few of those champs games went into Insane Mode with five or six people all claiming to be the cop. It confuses the mafia their hunt -- and the townies too if people aren't careful.

Zebra couldn't be much scummier at this point.

"I didn't even care enough to respond to it" translates to "Your case against me is weak and that's all I need to say to prevent people from voting for me."

Actually there isn't much content to search, I can't find a conclusive peek. The best I can do is DrWilgy.

Town's win probability plummets when the cop dies this early. Will the townies attempt to find her peek?

If Zebra is mafia then I think Enrique is town. Between the two I think Zebra is off to a more suspect start.

Zebra just defended someone with no questions asked. Unlike him.

It assures the townies can learn as little as possible progressing from Day 1 to Day 2, and essentially gives the mafia a free kill to start the game. I always say that I'd rather lynch a townie than lynch nobody, and I'd even rather lynch me than lynch nobody.

The only exception I can think of that is consistently valid is a 3 vs 1 "MyLo" (mislynch and lose) scenario. Then the townies can coordinate a no lynch to move the game to a 2 vs 1 scenario the following day phase and improve their odds to pick the right person.

No lynches are almost never a pro-town decision.

Endorse a no lynch?

Get JJJ's vote. :P

Thanks, Golden. Definitely feels good to finally win a dang game.

It seems to be working.

I derped the OT spectator posting rule before it was rescinded. Oh well, it should be a fun game.